AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Starting Block / Introductions => Topic started by: jacknife on 26 Nov 2003, 02:56 am
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As a relative newbie to 2 channel audio systems, I'm looking for suggestions for a quality amp. My price range is about $1000.
I just got rid of my cheapo Yamaha receiver and picked up a Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Control Center. I'm currently using Energy Veritas 2.1 speakers and a Sony 555ES SACD player. For the time being, I robbed my parasound amp from my theater setup. Now, I need to find an amp so I can get my 7.1 back. The Odyssey Stratos or Khartago looks interesting but with all the choices out there, I'm a bit overwhelmed. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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I think the answer depends upon your budget, and willingness to purchase used also. If you state that... folks can recommend.
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fYour best bet is buying used. Audiogon.com or Ebay have alot of good used gear that goes for roughly half what a new piece would cost. I'd go with Bryston, Marsh, Odyssey as they can all be had at a good price and the Odyssey and Bryston have transferable twenty year warranties. There's alot to choose from but those are decent picks. The new Carver ZR pro series digital amps can be had for less than a grand brand new and have received alot of good comments. Welcome to Audiocircle. You'll be able to learn alot here and be able to put together a system that sounds great for much less money with the education you get here.
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Are you planning on using HT in the future?
If so you might want to startout with the new Panny XR45 Reciever.
This is a system I could happily live with!
Panasonic XR-45 Digital Receiver $300
Green Mt. or Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Loudspeakers$329\pr.
Pioneer Universal DVD $160
Cables
NEAR SOTA OTA Hookup Cable for Speaker Cables and 1 set of IC's $120(My brand)Prices depending on speaker array
StereoVox Digital Cable $80
RadioShack Video Cable $20
Ascend review
http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/ascend_cbm170.htm
www.NEARSOTA.com
For under $1K you can do alot more today then you could ever do before.
I would also try to get a unit that can be tweeked to even further it's performance. Something I have been doing since the mid 80's when looking at equiptment is to find things that can be upgraded to bring their performnce up to that of much more expensive units.
The reason I mention this is because Wayne of the "Bolder Cables Co." will be doing modifications to enhance the performance of the Panasonic Unit.
Other receivers out that are Digital and should give great price to performance should be the Carver ZR1000 and their is a Sony unit that should be considered,but be certain to see if there are any issues with quality.
It seems the best bang for the $$ is going to be Digital Amps.
There are exceptions as to everything as ASKA I hear are doing great things and a few others.
Never thought I would even consider another receiver,but the Digital amps have changed my outlook.
Just thinking!
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It seems the best bang for the $$ is going to be Digital Amps.
...
Why not just buy an Odyssey Digital amp? :o
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As a relative newbie to 2 channel audio systems, I'm looking for suggestions for a quality amp. My price range is about $1000.
In that price range, I'd recommend a Rotel RB-1080. The Veritas 2.1s like a decent amount of power, and Rotels are decent quality amps that can deliver a lot of power. I think it'll also match nicely with your Sunfire. Obviously, buying used can get you something that might be better/cheaper, but as a dealer, I'd encourage you to buy new (I don't carry anything in your price range, so this isn't a sales pitch by me...!).
Hope this helps,
Phil
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Hey Jacknife,
Welcom to AC....I'll let others suggest, lest you be further confused with an even wider array of choices.
Keep in mind, there is no absolute bad choice here (save buying an amp that doesn't work at all) and no clearly superior choice either - it's all about trial, lots of errors and personal taste.
Whatever your choice, enjoy it. And, along the way, you have a nice community of 'audiophools' here to help and suggest your way out of (and sometimes into :D ) trouble.
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"Why not just buy an Odyssey Digital amp?"
Marbles: When did Odyssey start making digital amps? I'm not aware of it and just checked their site. Is this something about to come out? Thanks
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An amp was my least favorite decision to make when I was building my system. There are a lot of choices and they all sound good... some have a little more detail, others a little more of this or that... and you have to hear them in your system to hear the effects. It was a long and arduous task finding and hearing amps.
What's funny is I decided on an AKSA without ever hearing it. (www.aksaonline.com)... and they have a forum here. I've been very happy with my decision to get the 100 watt version w/ the 'Nirvana' upgrade. This amp has a lot of drive and I've never heard it suffer unless driven to extreme volume levels. I'm not familiar with the Veritas, though.... My 3-way floorstanders present a 6 ohm load and are 86db and the power is more than adequate. I could have gone with a 55 watt version and been OK... but, I've got some extra headroom to play with if I need it.
The only amp I've heard that was as detailed while being as natural as my AKSA was the Scott Nixon monoblocks. I don't think they'll drive difficult loads as well, though... and may not play as loud. In any case, they were very impressive to me.
One thing that may help is to distinguish what type of sound you're looking for... such as, I like detail, slam, and extremely convincing sound over all other sonic characteristics. I like my music to sound as close to live as possible. However, I also like it to sound natural and not too harsh. It's a tough balancing act... but, I've got it 90% where I want it. I just need the last pieces... clean power and room treatment.
Good luck!
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"Why not just buy an Odyssey Digital amp?"
Marbles: When did Odyssey start making digital amps? I'm not aware of it and just checked their site. Is this something about to come out? Thanks
Klaus has been hinting about an upcoming digital amp for a long time now.
I think he might be close to having a product.
You should call Klaus for availablility dates and prices as well as other specs should my hunch be correct. :wink:
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far! I have no problem with buying used but would prefer to buy new. The system I'm trying to build is strictly for 2 channel, I have a theater setup that I'm completely happy with. I'm in no real hurry to purchase an amp since I robbed my back 2 channel Parasound amp from my theater setup, I can live with 5.1 sound for movies for now. Marbles..I'm envious of your dual SVS Ultra with Crown setup, you must have had to reinforce your house's foundation! I have dual SVS 25-31CS+ with Sampson S1000 and they are quite impressive in their own right.
Right now I'm thinking of holding out for a bit in order to increase my budget. I don't think I need a whole lot of power, since my listening room is on the small side..about 20'x10'. I'm looking for maybe 100-150 watts a side. Or should I be looking for something in the 200 range? My main goal is to pick up an amp that I won't even think about selling off in a years time.
As for my speakers (Energy Veritas 2.1), I'm not sure that I'll keep these in this system or not. They may get moved to bedroom duty, in which case I could use some suggestions on small "bookshelves" that are highly regarded in the $1000 range. My musical pleasures is mainly classic 50's - 60's jazz, if that makes a difference in speaker choice.
it's all about trial, lots of errors and personal taste.
I'm well versed in the "lots of errors" part, thanks for the warm welcome ChairGuy
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Hi Jack,
Great name! Anyway, I have a couple suggestions. First, regarding the amp, I would give Frank from Audio by Van Alstine a call. On occasion, he gets some excellent trade-in's and offers them at very good prices. They are all completely checked out by Frank and come with warrnatees. AVA gear, while not the most "flashy" in the styling department, offers the best value that I have experienced in audio. You should be able to get a very nice Omegastar or Omega amp for that money. You might also want to check out the AVA preamps. It's a safe purchase because they offer a 30 day audition and are completely upgradeable to higher level designs by AVA if you feel the need to upgrade at a later date.
Regarding speakers, I have a couple suggestions, however one may not work for you because you say you want "small" monitors. I love my Ellis 1801's but they are pretty large 2-way monitors and they are a bit over your price range. For the money, and for the type of music you listen to, I'd suggest a pair of MBOW1's. They are designed by Dennis Murphy (who designed the 1801), have the same OW1 tweeter as the 1801 (the Hiqupon OW1) and really nice woofers from GR-Research. For the money, I don't know of a better sounding pair of speakers. Many people feel the OW1 is the best dome tweeter, period. There are several very good woodworkers who can put a pair together for you, including Brian Bunge from Rutledge (Brian is a member of this site and is a good guy). Another option is one of the best woodworkers (and all-around good guys I have met) I have ever seen, Jim Salk. Jim's site is: http://www.salksound.com/ Jim has a really nice pair of MBOW1's on his site along with some really cool speakers and woods.
The advantage of the MBOW1 (aside from an excellent design and world-class drivers) is the fact that it is upgradeable. Dennis Murphy just designed a new crossover that makes them (with the addition of a woofer module) a 3-way, full-range design. The woofer modules will be pretty inexpensive to have made because they use solid (but inexpensive) Peerless woofers and simple sealed cabinets. You could add the bass modules later (with minor crossover changes to integrate them). This would be my choice.
Good luck,
Jack
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Jackman, have you heard these Salk speakers?
http://www.salksound.com/ht1.html
Those Salk ht1's look very very sweet. That has to be a very fast sounding speaker given those drivers. In fact that is like my dream team for a ribbon tweet, cone woofer speaker.
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Hi Marbles,
Yes, I listened to them and saw them at a speaker event in Iowa a couple weeks ago. They were extremely fast and beautiful sounding, however they did not sound as good as the Veracity QW, also from Jim Salk. The QW is a quarter wave, transmission line (type) design. It had all of the speed and articulation of the original Veracity, however the bass was much better (clean and strong) and the mids were more open. Jim brought the actual pair he has pictured on his site and, like most of his work, they looked MUCH better in person than on the site. There are some good woodworkers out there, but Jim is a true artist. I spoke with him briefly about the amount of time it takes him to make a pair of speakers (actual hours) and it's amazing he is able to sell for his prices and cover his costs (let alone make a profit).
Jim uses the EX (I think that's the name) version of the Seas Excel woofer. It's the more efficient version with larger magnet. It has less low end bass output than the version used in the 1801, however that's not an issue with the QW floor stander because it get's a lot of bass from the cabinet design. The floorstanding QW Veracity or a floorstanding QW version of the 1801 will be my main speakers one of these days!
J
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I gotta 2nd jackman's rec for Van Alstine - I had Odyssey stratos in my HT, and Bryston 3B-ST's before that. The Van Alstine stuff is clearly superior, IMO. I'm using the OmegaStar 240 and 240/3 in my HT and could not be happier with the sound.
For speakers, if you want small, there is not better than the nOrh ceramic 4.0's - I had 4.0's for a while in my HT and sold them, a decision I still regret. $850 for 5 of them, delivered, perhaps one of the best deals in all of audio.
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hmm...a couple more interesting suggestions, thanks. The Omegastar 240 or 260 or Channel Islands monoblocks? I definately like the small size of those VMB-1's. I wonder if those monoblocks will work good with my speakers, 8ohm nom, 89db? This is turning out to be a difficult decision!
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If you can (or want to learn) DIY, I can't recommend AKSA highly enough. I bought a 55w AKSA amp kit about three years ago. This amp is smooth and deeply involving while retaining stunning clarity and authoritative bass--and you can listen to it forever with no fatigue if the rest of your system is up to snuff. You might want to look at the 100w version, but lots of people do very well indeed with the 55w amp. Do the Nirvana upgrades. You will certainly stay way below your budget with this amp and be a very happy camper too. Because the design is essentially two mono-blocks, it is extremely easy to build however many channels you want, should you ever want to extend your killer 2-channel system to a killer n-channel system.
Check out the Aspen Amps circle here (and its predecessor at HarmonicDiscord.com), do a search at Audio Asylum (see Tony D's review... search under Printed Electronics, Aspen Amps former name). http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=61237&review=1
You will find few if any "luke warm" comments; every AKSA owner that I know of is very, very happy with his amp.
For the record, I work for a large US consumer products company... and have no relationship whatsoever with Aspen Amps (except that I love the way their stuff sounds).
Peter
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For $1000, I'd be all over a Plinius 8200P MkII. Make sure it's a MkII though. . . I love my Plinius. What are you using for a pre ?
B
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Hi,
I second PSP's recommendation for an aksa amp. if your speakers are relatively efficient the aksa 55 (55 watts p/ch, nirvana upgrade caps etc) is a good recommendation.
I had to buy the aksa 100 (100 watts p/ch) which cost a little more $$ than the 55.
you could build an aksa 55 for about $600us including a chassis.
another recommendation is a used n.e.w. amplifier (they sell really cheaply on audiogon when they come up) or a pass aleph 3 which sells for $800-900us secondhand.
secondhand is usually fine. actually you are probably getting confused with all the choices being offered, i went thru this when looking for a new turntable.
if i can offer one piece of advice it is to actually listen to the amp you want in your own system.
best of luck.
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you are probably getting confused with all the choices being offered
Indeed :!:
Right now I'm leaning towards AVA's Fet Valve 350EX. I guess that means my budget has climbed to about $1800. I appreciate the recommendations of the Aksa but I'm not up for a build it yourself amp and would perfer a built in the USA amp.
Any thoughts comparing the AVA Omegastar and Fet Valve would be helpfull. With the Omegastar 240 at $900 and the Fet Valve 350EX at $1800, is the Fet Valve worth stepping up to?
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I have both (the fetvalve in my 2 channel setup, and the Omegastar in my HT). It is definitely worth the exra $$, especially now with the "R" upgrade included in the standard price. They are not physically pretty, but damn they sound good. JMHO, of course.
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I agree with Tyson. The only reason not to step up to the Fetvalve is budget. The Fetvalve is an excellent performer, it has a very smooth and accurate top end (not colored like some tube amps) and has plenty of juice to power your speakers. If your budget only allows you to get the amp and, as a result, you are forced to use a low-end preamp, I'd suggest looking at an Omega and a T6 preamp. The preamp is very important and the synergy of an AVA amp/preamp is something that may warrant your consideration.
I listened to an Omegastar 440 amp and thought it sounded pretty darn good. Tyson is correct about the power supply upgrade. It really takes the Fetvalve and the Transcendance preamps to another level. Just get whatever your budget allows you to get. AVA has a really good return policy so there is minimal risk.
Lastly, AVA is one of the last of a (sadly) disappearing breed: independently owned, American electronic companies that actually designs and manufactures their products in the USA. It's pretty cool when you can call to discuss your products with the guy who owns the company, designs the products, coordinates the in-house production, answers the phone, makes the coffee, etc. Frank knows his products better than any manufacturer I have ever met. Unlike companies like Levinston, Red Rose, etc., the Van Alstine name actually means something. Maybe I'm crazy, but that means something to me.
Jack[/b]
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hi zybar,
well the amp can be built in the usa but designed in oz :) .
actually i didn't even build my amp. hugh built and tested my amp boards and power supply and a local friend assembled the amp for me.
i didn't solder a thing. pretty slack hey.
the amp is quite good and it looks like there is going to be a shootout between the ampzilla and aksa 100 (nirvana) which ribbonspeakers.net has instigated it. btw the aksa replaced my n.e.w. dc-66 battery amp in my system.
anyway zybar make sure you listen to the amp in your system if you can. i read so many different interpretations of different products all the time that i get confused. just look at the mensa, ack dack and scott nixon dacs. there are so many differing opinions that i'm totally confused :roll:
regards
rocket
ps don't listen to us trust your ears.
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Hello again. Those of you who were reading this thread and wish to continue the direction it went off on can find it in the Fight Club. Please keep any additional posts in this thread helpful and germane to the topic.
Thanks!
JohnR (Starting Block facilitator)
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hi zybar,
well the amp can be built in the usa but designed in oz .
actually i didn't even build my amp. hugh built and tested my amp boards and power supply and a local friend assembled the amp for me.
i didn't solder a thing. pretty slack hey.
the amp is quite good and it looks like there is going to be a shootout between the ampzilla and aksa 100 (nirvana) which ribbonspeakers.net has instigated it. btw the aksa replaced my n.e.w. dc-66 battery amp in my system.
anyway zybar make sure you listen to the amp in your system if you can. i read so many different interpretations of different products all the time that i get confused. just look at the mensa, ack dack and scott nixon dacs. there are so many differing opinions that i'm totally confused
I agree with your comments. I also have no doubt that AKSA amps are extremely high performers and some of the best values in all of audioland (if you know how to solder things together). If this guy knows how to solder or at least has a friend who will help him out, AKSA would be an excellent suggestion. I never met an AKSA owner who wasn't in love with his gear (including my friend Blizzard in Jersey)!
Jman
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whew...I didn't realize picking an amp could be such a volitile topic :lol:
My short list contains Odyssey and AVA. I have no interest at this point of putting my lackluster soldering skills to work so Aksa is out for now. I sure wish I could audition these amps side by side. My desire is to purchase a great sounding, high quality amp that I'll be happy with for years to come.
For me, it is an important part of the decesion of where the product is made. If a product made by my neighbors in Minnesota or Indiana are as good or better than the competing product made overseas then I feel strongly in supporting my neighbors first even if it might cost a bit more.
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Hi Jackknife,
Looks like you have narrowed it down to odyssey and ava amps.
I guess you could also consider the new Channel Islands monoblocks for $1000us as well.
Good Luck
regards
rocket
ps if you can find an aleph 3 they are great.
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I guess you could also consider the new Channel Islands monoblocks for $1000us as well.
Those do look interesting, I'm a little concerned about the 40 watt power rating. Are they really comparable to AVA or Odyssey's 125-150 watts?