[greg7]

Has anyone compared Purifi vs. Ncore? Or even Ncore vs. Ice/Pascal/etc. ? What were the sonic differences, if any, and where (treble sophistication, bass, resolution, etc.)? Searchs aren't pulling anything up

[richidoo]

I own ICE 1200as2 and purifi. I have heard Ncore 400 and Ncore 500. 
My order of preference most to least is Purifi, ICE, NCore 500, NCore400.

Purifi is detailed refined with excellent damping for strong clear bass.  I think its the best class D available now.
ICE is detailed but slightly less refined than purifi, less firm bass and unable to handle <3 ohm load. ICE has a very relaxed and confident sound and is bulletproof troublefree technology.

I recently upgraded from Purifi to Denafrips Thallos which completely blows away all the class D amps Ive heard. Another league, true high end with low price. Listening is so much fun again and I feel after all these years of system building I finally have the sound I have always heard in my mind. Im buying another one to biamp.  But I was very happy with Purifi before I got sabotaged by unexpected thallos audition. I didn't know that my system was this good and was just waiting for a good enough amp to bring out the full potential.

[goryu]

purifi is the next generation ncore. It has better performance. Hypex is coming out with a new amp soon, the nilai. It improves upon the ncore as well, and appears to best the purifi amp as well. While all these advancements in class d audio are impressive and laudable, it bears keeping in mind that the audibility of these improvements is questionable at best since even the original ncore had distortion below the threshold of audibility. The new nilai will have distortion at the limits of current audio test equipment. Improvements at this point appear mostly academic.

[MttBsh]

the audibility of these improvements is questionable at best since even the original ncore had distortion below the threshold of audibility. The new nilai will have distortion at the limits of current audio test equipment. Improvements at this point appear mostly academic.

When Richidoo states "I recently upgraded from Purifi to Denafrips Thallos which completely blows away all the class D amps Ive heard. Another league, true high end" that doesn't sound like the differences were "inaudible" or "academic"

[Tyson]

When Richidoo states "I recently upgraded from Purifi to Denafrips Thallos which completely blows away all the class D amps Ive heard. Another league, true high end" that doesn't sound like the differences were "inaudible" or "academic"

It doesn’t matter how it sounds it only matters how it measures donchaknow?  /snark

 

[JLM]

We are well beyond where what we measure doesn't correlate to what we hear.  Keep in mind that the standards for distortion were developed 60+ years ago back when distortion was measured in whole number percentages and they were measuring tube amps.

[hi5harry]

I have several IceEdge 1200as2 amps ( Mivera ) which I had modified by Ric Schultz. The difference from stock made them keepers for sure! To have that much power and still sound that nice makes them very flexible to fit in any system I have used them in.

[WGH]

My original Ncore review from 2013, conclusion: meh...terrific soundstage and dynamics but the tone just doesn't do it for me.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117854.msg1237538#msg1237538

My 2021 review of the PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblock amps which uses ICE's latest ICEedge technology, conclusion: this amp is like a high performing race car.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176173.msg1856501#msg1856501

[goryu]

I am speaking purely to the objective performance of these amps.

Whether one prefers the sound produced by one over the other, in their room, with their speakers, etc., is purely subjective. There is no accounting for taste- it's not something that can be debated, argued, or proved right or wrong. There is no "better" or "best"-  what one prefers means nothing about the actual amps.

There is no meaningful way to compare these amps other than objectively. Anecdotal info, i.e., "my Denafrips blew the ncore away", is simply subjective opinion and utterly meaningless.

Some like tubes, others prefer class d. To each his own. You want to know how they compare subjectively? Try them and find out.

[Early B.]

There is no meaningful way to compare these amps other than objectively. Anecdotal info, i.e., "my Denafrips blew the ncore away", is simply subjective opinion and utterly meaningless.

We can all agree on two things:

1. Listening is subjective
2. The most effective method to evaluate an amp for its sound quality is to listen to it.

If those two things are correct, then opinions about how amps sound from those who have listened to them matter a lot. To label opinions as meaningless suggests that your own opinions about how your system sounds are likewise meaningless which is meaningless in itself. 

I value Richidoo's comments on this topic. Opinions are the backbone of this forum and it's the reason you're here.

[goryu]

Yes, listening is subjective. Yes, the ultimate arbiter of taste is to take a bite. No, it does not follow other's subjective opinions have any relevance to mine- neither your opinion nor anyone else's about what tastes good holds any value to me. That is the definition of subjective. You may value someone else's subjective opinion but nothing says I need to...And no, I am not here looking for other's opinions. I can form my own.

The purpose of an amplifier is to amplify, ideally, without adding anything to the signal but gain. If an amp has a "sound" it's not really an amplifier, it's an effects box. There are better ways to add noise to the signal through dsp which allows one to control the special sauce if it is so desired.

Maybe you are the type that lets the waiter order his wine and meal for him. I prefer to choose my own. I know what I like better than anyone else.

[MttBsh]

Maybe you are the type that lets the waiter order his wine and meal for him. I prefer to choose my own. I know what I like better than anyone else.
[/quote]

...and you may well find yourself eating that meal at a table for one.

[WGH]

...it bears keeping in mind that the audibility of these improvements is questionable at best since even the original ncore had distortion below the threshold of audibility.
...Improvements at this point appear mostly academic.

'appear' mostly academic? Does that mean you haven't listened the Ncore or Ice or Purifi?

I noticed from some of your previous posts that you enjoy this kind of technical discussion but it is off topic and has nothing to do with the OP's question: "Has anyone compared Purifi vs. Ncore? Or even Ncore vs. Ice/Pascal/etc. ?"

I have, have you? Looking forward to your review.

[Early B.]

Yes, listening is subjective. Yes, the ultimate arbiter of taste is to take a bite. No, it does not follow other's subjective opinions have any relevance to mine- neither your opinion nor anyone else's about what tastes good holds any value to me.

The OP wanted to know if anyone compared the sonic differences among Class D amps and invited them to share their opinions. You're posting in the wrong thread if you don't value the opinions of other forum members on this topic. 

 

If an amp has a "sound" it's not really an amplifier, it's an effects box.

Every amp on planet earth has a "sound." If we follow your logic, all amps are not amps.

 

[goryu]

'appear' mostly academic? Does that mean you haven't listened the Ncore or Ice or Purifi?

I noticed from some of your previous posts that you enjoy this kind of technical discussion but it is off topic and has nothing to do with the OP's question: "Has anyone compared Purifi vs. Ncore? Or even Ncore vs. Ice/Pascal/etc. ?"

I have, have you? Looking forward to your review.

I have owned all three.

The op asked if anyone has compared them and then asked about their sonic differences. I gave him the only rationale answer possible, that is, objectively they haven't any real performance differences, and that subjectively, only his experience in his system in his environment has any chance of being "true" for him. Neither you nor anyone else here can define for all, nor measure, "treble sophistication, bass, resolution, etc." and thus any opinions on these subjective impressions are of little utility to any particular person in their system and room. So yes, I did answer the op with my opinion on the amps and advised him to listen for himself, much like you have insinuated I should. Perhaps you just don't like my answer.

[goryu]

The OP wanted to know if anyone compared the sonic differences among Class D amps and invited them to share their opinions. You're posting in the wrong thread if you don't value the opinions of other forum members on this topic. 

 
Every amp on planet earth has a "sound." If we follow your logic, all amps are not amps.

 

I did share my opinion. I needn't value your subjective opinion nor anyone else's to post in this thread.

Every amp has a "sound"? No, every system has a "sound". An amp is but one part of a complex system. The same amp in two different systems can produce two different subjective impressions for the same person- which is correct? And the same amp in the same system will in most cases give different people a different subjective impression. Amps don't have a "sound", their job is to simply amplify a signal, the more accurately, the better, by definition. Some perform this task better than others- those that color the sound are adding audibly to the signal- some like these additions, others don't. Whether you or anyone else enjoys how the signal ultimately become a sound depends on a myriad of factors, both external and internal. This is why the only way to determine if an amp, or any other element of an audio system, is "right"  for one' self is to put it into one's system and see how one likes the way it interacts and performs as a whole. Expecting the subjective impressions of strangers of an amp in a foreign system and environment, without any probably similarity or correlation to one's own, to somehow yield relevant data is to grossly misunderstand the complexity and number of variables involved in audio reproduction and psychophysics. In simpler terms, it's not only misguided but naive.

Seems I am not alone in this opinion:

[nc42acc]

So if I am correct AudioCircle is more of a "subjective" forum and there are other outlets to voice "objective" opinions? If we as members on AC want to subjectigate on the sounds of amps, cables, tubes and the quality of the air our system resides then why can't the "objectivists" go to their meeting halls and bemoan why we spend so much money on said items for our stereo and leave us alone?

PS.....I have or had the NC400, NC500, ICE and Purifi amps and yes I do hear a difference.

[goryu]

So if I am correct AudioCircle is more of a "subjective" forum and there are other outlets to voice "objective" opinions? If we as members on AC want to subjectigate on the sounds of amps, cables, tubes and the quality of the air our system resides then why can't the "objectivists" go to their meeting halls and bemoan why we spend so much money on said items for our stereo and leave us alone?

PS.....I have or had the NC400, NC500, ICE and Purifi amps and yes I do hear a difference.

Subjectigate? Is that an English word?

You, like others previously, appear to have failed to grasp the argument, or perhaps would rather mischaracterize my statements. I have no issue with subjective evaluation of components, as I said, there is no debating opinion. Everyone has one, right? My issue is with the fallacious belief that somehow someone else's perceptions and qualitative interpretations of their perceptions has any value or meaning to anyone other than he who perceives. While one may find some psychic enjoyment in spouting off about one's expertise, the pride of ownership of expensive gear, or take pleasure in pontificating, the value to the end user of one's subjective opinions is negligible at best. But if it feels good, have at it.

Again, nothing more valuable and important than our own subjective opinions, they just don't share very well.

[Early B.]

Every amp has a "sound"? No, every system has a "sound".

If I were a marketing director for an audio company, I would insist that my company's amplifiers don't have a sonic signature and use a bunch of techo-babble and measurements as "proof." Some people would actually believe it.   

BTW -- I have a Purifi amp and it definitely has a sonic signature. In fact, I can swap out input buffers to alter the sound, but the measurements wouldn't change. Of course, the naysayers would claim that input buffers have no bearing on the sound and round and round we go...   

[nc42acc]

Subjectigate is an inside word only known to us subjectivist audio freaks.
I learned to share in kindergarten and love to share my elaborate opinions on audio gear. My audio gear pride knows no bounds.

Subjectigate? Is that an English word?

You, like others previously, appear to have failed to grasp the argument, or perhaps would rather mischaracterize my statements. I have no issue with subjective evaluation of components, as I said, there is no debating opinion. Everyone has one, right? My issue is with the fallacious belief that somehow someone else's perceptions and qualitative interpretations of their perceptions has any value or meaning to anyone other than he who perceives. While one may find some psychic enjoyment in spouting off about one's expertise, the pride of ownership of expensive gear, or take pleasure in pontificating, the value to the end user of one's subjective opinions is negligible at best. But if it feels good, have at it.

Again, nothing more valuable and important than our own subjective opinions, they just don't share very well.