[Ed Schilling]

Guys, I posted this at my site and since the thread here was so funny I thought I had best put this here as added information.

This is serious, I'm afraid. And if inappropriate, Frank, just make it go away. Thanks, Ed.

>>>>Without getting into the debate....here is something I never thought of until a few minutes ago. My OTL amp as well as my F1 run HOT! And I mean HOT! This is no problem because being an "evil conservative" it makes me smile to turn over 200 watts into only a few and make all the heat to add to Global Warming. The fact I get to keep the A/C running to keep the listening room comfortable is just an added bonus. But I digress..........

Here is the deal...as I was thinking of riding to see Grand Ma I thought "I'll just leave that new amp on and let it play".

And it hit me BIG.....I have Birds. Teflon if burned or heated to a high temp. will release gas that will kill a bird INSTANTLY. A Teflon pot left on a stove will do it in no time! I do not know about the toxicity of the other plastics that might be found in an amp but I do know for sure about Teflon.

I for one will NEVER ever again leave a piece on while I am not home . Just imagine that the power X former decides not to open to protect the fuse (thanks Eddie Vaughn) but instead decides to smolder away......a "fire" that would only be bad for the amp would kill my birds instantly. The fumes would not know they were supposed to stay in one room! In the case of Teflon, even being at home and finding it after it has smoldered may still be lethal for birds IN THE HOUSE but at least you may save them. If you are not at home you'll come back to a smell and dead birds.

While not every amp will have Teflon in any component and 99.999999 % of them will never smolder I am not going to take the chance. If you own birds of any type you might consider this. After all you did throw away all Teflon pans, didn't you!?

Ed<<<<<<

[Zheeeem]

Excuse me, but why do you think heated teflon kills birds?

On the topic at hand, I turn my electronics off after use.  The only exception is when I think I might come back for a listen some time later that day.  I never leave them on when I am out of the house.  The main reasons are: that heat is the great killer of parts and because the chance of my electronics burning down the house approaches zero when they are turned off.

[Ed Schilling]

http://www.tuberose.com/Teflon.html

http://www.avianweb.com/teflon.htm

http://www.ecavianassociation.com/healthsaftey/tef.asp

Isn't Google great. I personally know a couple avian breeders.....would you take their word for it based on 30 years of horror stories.
This is common knowledge among exotic bird owners.

What would make you think it is safe? I sure hope your tone wasn't that "I made it up". It is a concern or it could be. But if the original question was whether to leave stuff on or not and one has no feelings on the matter BUT does have birds I'd say (and I am doing it) cut your stuff off. But Hell what do I know. I thought everyone knew about Teflon Toxicity or would have at least "googled it" before challenging me. Gee....sorry I bothered (not really).

I doubt that an amp is gonna burn a house down.....I NEVER worried about that. It would have to actually catch fire and ignite the surroundings....pretty hard if the case is metal. The possibility of one smoldering is another story....I have seen transformers do that.

BTW.....NEVER solder Teflon wires in a room with birds....it should be "safe" but It's better to err on the side of safety.

You are excused.

Ed

[DonnieW]

Wow... this really isn't bullshite.  Someone else told me the same thing and I thought he was full of it.  A lot of folks keep birds in their kitchens too.

[Ed Schilling]

Donnie,
Until I owned birds I had no idea either. It really is serious and could possibly explain plenty of "mysterious" deaths (to people unaware of this). Until today I had never even thought about my amp causing me grief! There is probably no way for Teflon in an amp to cause trouble but if it (the amp) were to burn, like I said, I doubt the home would go but I could see the birds croaking.

You are right about people keeping their birds in the kitchen.....ours is in that area and it is far from ideal. The safe place would be in my listening room but then they would not get the attention they need. What's a fellow to do!?

In fairness....it does seem lke some "urban myth" doesn't it? I did not make this post to cause trouble but rather it was for those of us that worry about strange stuff happening..... here you go!

I do guess it is more likely than having the "Johnson Rods cease to spin" in our cables however. But not by much, I admit.

Ed

[JEaton]

If the fumes kill the birds instantly, what does it matter whether or not you're there when it happens?

[Ed Schilling]

J..
I just put the info out there. I shouldn't have to think it through for everyone....but OK.....

You follow the rules.....birds in one end of the house....you in the listening room....you see the "smoke".....you quickly shut the doors and open windows....take birds out other end of house. Birds live.

Now....you are not home.....something smokes......dead birds.

See, that wasn't hard was it?

I am always amazed at the number of people when given information find a way to question the provider instead of just thinking things out for themselves.

I simply presented one reason why it might not be a great idea to leave electronics on when you are not home if you happen to own birds. I do and it had never occurred to me before today.

What had occurred to me long before today is the fact a decent percentage of house fires (a "Fire Marshall" told me this) are started from "wall wart" transformers. The fumes from them can be deadly to birds as well even if they don't burn your house down. A friends sister lost her house to one. It smoldered and caught fire behind the curtains.  I NEVER, EVER leave those things plugged in and when I do I make damn sure they are not on something flammable or behind curtains.

Hope this helps sort things out....now fellows.....I did not make the post to start a mess over "bird safety" and how it relates to audio practices.

This ain't rocket science and it ain't a life and death matter for that matter.....unless you are a bird and the victim of a freak accident.

Freak accidents do happen.........don't they?

Ed



 

[DonnieW]

It's a fact smoke kills more people than 'fire' does.  It stands to reason there are toxins in there that are part of the cause.  This should be a fire safety thread... seriously.  I've observed some pretty dumb things in this hobby.  But I won't digress.

[Zheeeem]

I thought everyone knew about Teflon Toxicity or would have at least "googled it" before challenging me. Gee....sorry I bothered (not really).

BTW.....NEVER solder Teflon wires in a room with birds....it should be "safe" but It's better to err on the side of safety.

You are excused.

Ed

Sorry.  I should have been more specific.  What thermal decomposition product are you suggesting is emitted from teflon that kills birds.  The sites you linked don't offer up much real information.

[Ed Schilling]

Z....
I'm beginning to think you are lazy.
http://www.ewg.org/reports/toxicteflon/chemicals.php

ed

[DonnieW]

What's that smell???

"PFIB, which is a chemical warfare agent 10 times more toxic than phosgene (COCl2, a chemical warfare agent used during World Wars I and II)

[DonnieW]

Ohhh... and we cook eggs off that sh*t.  Serious eye-opener for me.

[geezer]

Several years ago, when the research about toxic vapors from teflon was first published, we tossed all our teflon-coated pans (remember the canary in the mineshaft?). Don't forget that what's bad for the bird is also probably bad for you. The ill effects of poisons in small doses often aren't evident immediately, but can cause serious health problems down the road. (Consider the many examples of substances that are belatedly  banned by the FDA or other agencies only after years of widespread use for just that reason.) Maybe I'll move my power amp outside!

Frank, how much teflon is in your power amps?

[geezer]

Slow poisoning over time? I'd be way more worried about basic, general air pollution than teflon. Also, there's global warming.

Amen.

[avahifi]

And all of this is posted in my circle?

I think it is for the birds.   

Turn your equipment off when you are not using it.

Frank Van Alstine

[Ed Schilling]

Thanks Frank....I'm with you. and I didn't mean to "start a mess" at your Circle but it was your crazy funny reply to the other 24/7 post that got me thinking of ALL the reasons not to leave stuff on.....burning down ones house was NOT one of them however! I've seen a lot of foul smoke but never a sustained fire that would set an audio rack ablaze. And then it just hit me that the fumes from a smoldering transformer may really kill my birds! And if Teflon (wire?) were to be involved it would be for sure death city. Since I am very paranoid of the creatures and this had never occurred to me I thought it might be of interest to anyone who has birds and that it was probably something  they had not thought of, (while losing sleep over what to do). I sure didn't...and we are very careful around them. I will admit it is about as important as "global warming" in the grand scheme of things.....neither will impact anyone we will ever know but I guess either  is a possibility.

Cut your equipment off....do it for the Birds and of course for "the Children".

Ed