[rustneversleeps]

I am sorry that most of you including Frank find my contructive criticism offensive. For the one who find "connecting cable 100 times to the IC" laughable obviously have no concept on field testing a product, just like saying putting 100 rounds through the barrel of a Beratta pistol is unnecessary for testing.

The fact is that the RCA jacks on AVA pre and power amp can not withstand repeating useage with a normal size cable, I prefer heavier duty RCA jacks and am willing to pay more for them, so what's wrong with that?

The dielectric and the center conductor in the AVA RCA jacks are easily overstretched and deformed, that's a fact. I have two pieces of AVA equipment and the RCA jacks on both have lost their grip (by prior owner, of course), no dropout yet, but there will be if more cable swapping are done.

My other Japanese made vintage Kenwood and Technics has more reliable RCA jacks, so does Adcom.

Mr. Ryerse Rocks is correct about all the "yes men" in Franks forum, they can't handle the truth.

[TomW16]

My other Japanese made vintage Kenwood and Technics has more reliable RCA jacks, so does Adcom.

I replaced my Adcom 535 amp with an AVA amp and the AVA amp has much better RCA jacks.  The Adcom RCA jacks (female) were constructed with a metal sleeve that would come off in the male connector when the interconnect was pulled off.  This was an awful design and may have been upgraded on later models.

I have had no issues with the AVA RCA jacks.  Could the AVA jacks be better? likely.  Do I want to pay for better?  No. 

Tom

[rustneversleeps]

I have an Adcom GFP-565 preamp, all the RCA jacks withstand the abuse of my monster cable many many times with no problem, though I don't use it much anymore, but all the RCA jacks still have that brand new tight grip feel. So you might have had a defective unit from Adcom.

Actually I don't abuse my equipment purposely, but I do move them around and mate them with other different pieces for sound auditioning purpose quite often. The "feel" from the AVA RCA jack makes me feel reluctent to connect and disconnect the cables from the RCA jack, fearing they will eventually become lose and cause signal dropout. I am willing to pay more for the better RCA jacks.

[nathanm]

Why do you want better RCA jacks, you were just complaining about costly upgrades before and now you're asking for one!?

Although I would think that constant swapping would be the exception rather than the norm (it's not a 1950's telephone switchboard ya know) I would like to see RCA jacks go away.  I mean, if we're talking about Full-Ass, high end, better-than-mainstream gear wouldn't BNCs, XLRs or Speakons be a better choice?  The RCA jack relies solely on friction and tight tolerances whereas those other kinds have mechanical fasteners.  Here's one solution to the loose jack problem:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-1270

But oh will your fingers be sore after 100 swaps of these suckers in tight quarters!

How about a magnetic jack like Apple put on their new laptops?  Pretty slick.

[Thebiker]

"When the US Army tested the reliability of their service pistols, they put thousands of rounds through them, they looked for numbers of jam, accuracy, part breakage, failure due to overheating, corrosion..... And the Beretta won the contract."

Actually Rust,
The reason Beretta got that military contract was because they were willing to be low bidder.  The best of the sidearms tested was Sig Sauer, but Sig would not cut pricing lower than the bid that they submitted.

By the way, I do not now or at any time in the past have any AVA equipment, so I have no axe to grind.  I just don't care for the belligerent attitude of some folks in this forum that can only see their own version of the truth.  I find that (cynical of me) some people have varying shades "TRUTH".  You seem to fall into that category. The reviews I see of Frank's equipment praise his quality and value for the $.  You seem to want the "price no object" level of quality.  No problem, it's available as long as you have a fat enough wallet.

If you don't care for a product or a product line.....don't frigging buy it, or if you bought it and don't like it, sell it!  This is America, you are free to do either and move on.  Bashing anyone or their work shouldn't be worth your time.  Move on & get a life.

[Zheeeem]

>>I am sorry that most of you including Frank find my contructive criticism offensive.<<

I haven't seen any of your criticism that I would consider "constructive".

>>The fact is that the RCA jacks on AVA pre and power amp can not withstand repeating useage with a normal size cable...<<

If you are going to make statements like this, it would be good to have in hand at least one case of an actual failure.  Otherwise, it's just libel.

I am really puzzled by your opinion.  I just checked my amp, preamp and DAC, and all three have robust, solid connectors.  There is nothing that indicates to me that they couldn't be plugged/unplugged hundreds of times without a problem.

Anyhow, Frank custom makes everything.  I have made special requests when ordering equipment, and Frank has accomodated them.  I reckon if you had special RCA plugs in mind when you were ordering equipment, you could send them along with your order and Frank could install them instead; the only caveat probably being that Frank would want to be confident that they were at least up to his quality standards and could be installed without undue effort (e.g., remachining the chassis). 

[WEEZ]

while I agree with you guys, I think it's time to stop feeding the troll. Over fed trolls get bigger and uglier.

He's already made a fool of himself. Let's prtect him from himself. 

WEEZ

[martyo]

Hi. I'm kind of a newbie, my first reply was deleted when a thread on upgrades was frozen when it went south and got political and accusitory and just plain mean spirited. I bought a super pas 3i on ebay because after listening to my brothers T5 on my system I had to do something and I'm on a budget right now. (RCA's work and feel fine). It replaced a Carver C16. I also have a Carver TF75 amp and Platinum Amazing loudspeakers. Now I just finished living with my brothers 550 for a month and WOW. Air, open, extended, super definition, thick, liquid, musical and on and on......The Amazing's are truely amazing with the AVA electronics. Originally I bought the Carver equipment from a friend who worked in a store. It was the best stuff in the store and I got it for cost. What I've come to learn recently is that there was reasonably priced very good sounding equipment out there in the 60's when I had Pioneer, Kenwood, and Technics, and in the 70's when i had a son of ampzilla, thoebe and later AGI preampsand when I bought the Carver electronics. Alot of it was Dynaco, and Frank's and Hafler. IMHO Frank gives quite a bang for the buck. I also like the way he does business and that when I called to order new tubes he answered the phone and we had a nice unhurried conversation. What a gift to be able to make a living in your passion!
One more comment, "constructive criticism" ain't. It's a judgement. Particulary when you are taking someone's inventory. This forum seems like a wonderful place to share ideas and opinions in the hobby or persuit of musical reproduction. And Frank even jumps in once in a while. I mean, should I make a judgement because this "Rust" person is talking about Kenwood, and Adcom, and Technics, and monster cable. I think it's about the music. thanks

[WEEZ]

Welcome.

[martyo]

thanks Weez. What do you listen through these days?

[WEEZ]

you have a PM....

[zeke]

I go to all the audio sites for BOTH positive AND negative comments on equipment.

That gives me a better idea of the gear i may want to buy.

If people are flamed because they post negative comments , then the only posts submitted are positive !! ........  is that what we want ?

Seems to me all these circles have become so positive they don't help anyone judge the merits of gear anymore.

my 2 cents .........  zeke





 

[gjo1314]

I'm curious about your comment that AVA's RCA jacks cannot withstand heavy uage from normal size cables.
I've had an Omega preamp from AVA for 7 years and subjected it to more than usual abuse, and the RCAs are still in good shape. If the past 7 years is any indication it can withstand similar abuse for the next 10 years or more.

How long have you observed this" wear and tear", and on what model of AVA equipment owned by you?

George
Bangalore, India

[warnerwh]

Zeke: You should spend more time here. There's positive and negative comments on everything. Sometimes though the negative comments may be unjustified. I know for a fact that the RCA's on my Van Alstine amp are fine. As I stated earlier the only ones I've had get loose were on an Audio Research pre and Conrad Johnson power amp.

Overall I'd say the AVA gear has very little negative feedback, considering how much is out there there's little comment on failure or other problems with it. The main complaint seems to be that the faceplates aren't thicker. Another is the gear isn't pretty. My 550 is built very well indeed. The mechanical and solder joints are as good as anything else I've owned including Krell, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Theta, Cal Audio etc etc. The 550 the only piece I own of Frank's gear but usually a manufacturer's quality is consistent throughout it's line. I always pull the cover and examine my gear as I clean it as soon as I get it.

I've owned some of the big name gear and have been much less impressed with the insides. If it makes you feel better I will say I wish my faceplate had a nicer design. It's plenty thick but an engraved polished aluminum front plate with the AVA logo in a thick gold plating would be nice. As a matter of fact a friend who has a machine shop said he'd make me one if I pull off the faceplate and give it to him for a couple of days. The front of my Rotel amp isn't exactly pretty either, nor was the one on a Parasound HCA 3500, Conrad Johnson amp. Actually the nicest faceplate may have been on an old Hafler XL 600 I had. Btw faceplates and machining cost money. For all intents and purposes a flat black faceplate with a hole for a power switch is all you need.

After forty plus years in business if Frank had been having problems with the RCA's he had been using he'd buy different ones. They're not expensive and there's plenty to choose from in the Partsexpress catalog alone. To me this person is complaining about an isolated incident. No manufacturer of anything made in any industry has 100% of their products work forever. An inexpensive part is not worth having a service or warranty issue over as it costs the company money.

After this many decades in this hobby I know that you buy what you think is the best investment for your taste and budget. There's so many variables that choosing for others is impossible. You can only give them an idea unless they go borrow a loaner from a dealer to put in their personal system, something alot of people don't care to do for various reasons.

The manufacturers on Audiocircle have excellent reputations of offering alot of value.  Most have the advantage of selling direct so there's no 40-50% markup that dealers need to stay in business.

Of course we're taking a risk by not borrowing a piece from a dealer and trying it in our own system. Then again alot of money can be saved, especially when you're dealing in the thousands of dollars.

Although I've only talked to a few of the manufacturers here personally I understand they're all pretty down to earth. The owner will talk directly to you in a common sense manner with respect. In other words the manufacturers at Audiocircle have alot to offer. There's alot of very happy people here who own Odyssey, Salk, Vmps, Selah and of course AVA equipment among others. There's not one of these companies that don't give you a heck of alot for your money in the equipment. You also will receive excellent service from these people as they have a passion for their work.

The personal aspect happens to be important to me. It also shows how conscientious these people are. That's why when I update dacs it will most likely be Frank's or Dusty's. Just two more cases where for the money you get a piece that directly competes with other manufactuers dacs that cost 2-3 times as much. If you want to pay a dealer for his service I'm all for it as I like to see them stay in business. Excuse my rant guys but the nonsense has been getting to me more than usual. The high end has enough nonsense already.

[rustneversleeps]

I have no choice but to reveal some of the detail of my experience with an AVA preamp, I didn't really want to do it because I have great respect of AVA product, but with all the negative accusation towards me, I feel that I am obligated to reveal some of the detail.

I had to replace all the RCA jacks but one pair (the tape out 2, which I think it didn't get used much by the previous owner) in one of Franks preamp.

I found this while listening to the system and experience intermittent signal dropout in one channel. The RCA jacks had never felt right to begin with, they were too lose. I took the preamp to the shop, and check every one of the RCA jack, OHM meter showed that they were not making positive contact reliably. One could blame the prior owner had used oversized cables. My measurement of some of the exotic monstor cables I have reveals that the size of the center conductor is not much difference from the Radio Shack cheap cables (which I use most of the time). After replacing all but one pair of the RCA jacks, the preamp works fine, but I am reluctent to connect and disconnect the cables on the AVA preamp fearing that I may ruin the RCA jacks, which is something that I don't have to worry about in ALL my other audio pieces.

I recently purchased an AVA power amp, and the RCA input jacks have the same lose "feel", though experience no dropout, and I won't connect and disconnect the cables from it unless I absolutely have to.

I think Frank makes outstanding circuits for the audio application, but the hardware needs to be improved a bit, in certain area, "it's good enough" is just not good enough, ENOUGH?

[woodsyi]

You should've taken the high road, rust.  You lose credibility with the last post.........

[rustneversleeps]

 

It seems like it's what this forum's all about.

 

[budyog]

Hey rustneversleeps,
 I think you made all of us see this a little clearer now, You bought a used preamp. Who knows how or what the previous owner treated the audio gear like. Not that buying used is a bad thing, but it sounds like the previous owner did not treat it with the respect it deserves.
You also say they never felt right. Nothing last forever and with improper use, things get damaged faster than under normal use.
It seems like you are buying from the wrong people. I have purchased many pieces of used audio equipment, AVA included and that is one thing that is easily checked be-forhand.
You did not say which AVA preamp you bought. I think now you should give use ALL the details!
If you are plugging and unplugging so much, isn't there a piece of equipment the you could put in the middle with the heaviest duty RCA jacks that you can find to do all you switching with?
My AVA RCA jacks feel very snug, firm and and hold my SignalCable ICs very well. No problems here.
All of you AVA owners, run to your equipment immediately and check your RCA jacks and report back. That is an order!

[rustneversleeps]

If you really want to know......

I bought the used pas 4i from Frank, after bad jacks were found, new jacks were provided by Frank, labor's on me (it took me about four hours to replace them all).

I am not complaining (because I am a nice guy). But with my years of experience in audio, low end and high end, I don't believe the preamp was abused by someone who didn't know what he was doing, it was more like excessively used, like people have a lot audio pieces, they like to swap them around every now and then, or it might have been Franks testing piece, who knows...

I know this because I've done lots of equipment swapping, cheap or expensive cables, Kenwood, Technics, Nakamichi, Cary, Audio Research, Adcom... and have never had problem with any RCA jacks.

After I replaced all the RCA jacks on the Super Pas 4, I actually disected one of them and examined how it was made, my own conclusion is the dielectric's kind of soft, metal for the center female connector is thin, in comparision of the Adcom's, I actually disected an Adcom jack, which was the type that soldered right on the circuit board, the dielectric seems harder, not sure if the metal connectors are of the same thickness, but it was made in a way that provides some spring action while gripping onto the RCA male connector, which would provide more tolerence for larger connector pin, but like I said, the two cable that I measured had about the same diameter.

If it's still not credible enough for some of you AVA deciples, ask Frank. I am tired of explaining.

[avahifi]

Hey rusty, now we know, it was an old aluminum chassis Super Pas 4i that you are griping about.  Oh well.

For your information, we have changed RCA jack vendors in recent years and never get complaints about bad jacks any more, hardly ever back then either.

Flimsy chassis, duhhh!  It was aluminum back then Rusty, heavy gauge steel now.

Your laments are about history, not real time now.

My 1965 Mercedes 220S was showing some rust too when I finally got rid of at about 250,000 miles, darned cheap German engineering. 

Lighten up a whole bunch!

Frank Van Alstine