Salk Veracity HT-3 Speakers

avahifi · « **on:** 10 Mar 2006, 09:37 pm »

I would like to start a new thread just discussing my feelings about these speakers (no offense to any more demos I may get in the furture). The Salks are worth while talking about. Others might be just as deserving of some time here too.

Some interesting observations. These are the first speakers I have had in here that have made "none audio" people (such as Pat's husband) stop and look at very closely as fine pieces of furnature. Pat works for me mostly full time but her husband in general could care less about audio - - - althought he just loves the little now out of production AVA integrated amp and FM tuner in his huge four car garage driving four big old (no name) wall mounted boxes his brother gave him with the tuner set on country music pretty loud full time. The deer and woodchucks enjoy it too.

Anyway John (Pat's husband) actually stopped and examined the HT-3s from end to end and was interested in seeing the Salk web site regarding finishes and woods, etc. I have had this same "show stopper" occur several times. They are exquisite works of furniture for sure. (He never has have time to listen to them yet).

Pat's first glace coming to work was, "I want a pair of these". Geeze, speakers that people want even turned off.

I have to admit I had the same reaction as we unboxed them the first time, but I was sure glad they played music too.

Again and again my reaction to the HT-3s is that they just grab you and make you listen. Right now I am taking a break from building another prototype board (yup I still do bench work) and the music (Philips FM-Tuner with an Ultra line board in it, Ultra SL preamp, Fet Valve Ultra 550 amp, pair of HT-3s -- not even biwired yet) the music is just saying stop everything else turn up the volume and come listen to me.

By the way I did read a link to bi-wiring I found at AC that actually made a lot of sense, better good considertions than I had heard of before. I think I need to try this.

More later. Back to soldering. Your comments invited.

Frank

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Mar 2006, 11:11 pm »

What are the points of the bi wiring link that make you think it's worth while? Thank You

avahifi · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 12:13 am »

Scroll down to almost the bottom of this article to section 1.13

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

I am in agreement with what he says, but I will try bi-wiring with some pretty heavy guage stuff. Right now the speaker connection is with some too old to remember where I got it 16 or 18 gauge zip cord.

Fran

modular747 · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 05:43 am »

Quote from: avahifi

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

I am in agreement with what he says, but I will try bi-wiring with some pretty heavy guage stuff.
Fran

The author makes a much stronger argument for bi-amping than bi-wiring, citing numerous problems with passive crossovers, and the superiority of active crossovers. The Salk HT-3 comes in an active crossover version - a lot more money - but have you considered investigating it?

warnerwh · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 05:59 am »

Frank could try active bi amping but where would he find another amp?

avahifi · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 02:02 pm »

I have done bi-amping in the past and am familiar with its benefits.

However, I have always been driven to explore the way to the best sound possible within rational means, equipment, and prices, and I think doubling up on power amplifiers and adding an electronic crossover starts to get the system cost up to "only for the rich" and that is not the direction I want to go.

About the furthest I would go into doubling up on amplifiers is to use two Ultimate 70s and an Ultra bridge to get a rational 100 watt + per channel tube amplifier setup. That is sound you should hear sometime.

Frank Van Alstine

David Ellis · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 03:09 pm »

Yep,

Good looking speakers and amplifiers actually "sound" better too

. This might seems like a strange assertion, but I do believe the perceived quality of ANY product among those with incomplete knowledge is based on the information available to that person. Positive visual cues are very important.

This being said, I do think the HT3 is on par with the Joseph Audio Pearl. the HT3 is a VERY good sounding speaker too.

Dave

skrivis · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Mar 2006, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

I have done bi-amping in the past and am familiar with its benefits.

However, I have always been driven to explore the way to the best sound possible within rational means, equipment, and prices, and I think doubling up on power amplifiers and adding an electronic crossover starts to get the system cost up to "only for the rich" and that is not the direction I want to go.

I suppose it depends upon the amps used too. Line-level x-overs usually permit the use of "lesser" amplifiers. The individual loads may not be nearly as hard to drive, so perhaps less expensive amps could be used? For instance, what would the HT3a speakers be like with a pair of 240/3EX amps driving them?

I'd also say that a pair of Ultra amps for biamping plus an electronic x-over are more rational than some of the esoteric and expensive stuff you see out there. It doesn't take many $1000 power cords to equal a full biamp setup.

The full HT3a system is less expensive than those big $20,000 B&Ws too, just as a "fer instance."

David Ellis · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Mar 2006, 05:55 pm »

Quote

For instance, what would the HT3a speakers be like with a pair of 240/3EX amps driving them?

I am interested in Frank's opinion on this matter too.

I (Dave Ellis), believe that single "better" amp sounds better than two cheaper amps, but I am NOT an amplifier guy.

avahifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 09:10 pm »

Of course one good amplifier is likely going to sound better than two lesser amplifier because bi-amping is likely not going to eliminate the problems with the lesser amplifiers, unless (highly unlikely) they are way better not having to drive a full range load

However I am going to try bi-wiring as I have seen good suggestions recently that bi-wiring could reduce some of the possible cross-coupling from the high frequency to low frequency crossover sections. That might be of value, and simple bi-wiring is a pretty inexpensive fix for that if it is an audible thing. The only way to make sure is to try bi-wiring as see if really does make a useful difference.

Frank Van Alstine

TomW16 · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 05:37 am »

Let us know your impressions of bi-wiring. I have tried it in the past and was unimpressed. I wasn't sure that I could hear a difference. (It could have been one of those, I spent the money on extra speaker cable so I think it sounds better scenarios). I now have an AVA amp and if you say that you hear something, it might be worth another shot.

Good luck.

Tom

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 07:53 am »

I have tried bi-wiring the HT3's with TG Audio HSR speaker cable and couldn't hear any improvement.

Should be interesting to see what Frank thinks...

George

skrivis · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 04:01 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Of course one good amplifier is likely going to sound better than two lesser amplifier because bi-amping is likely not going to eliminate the problems with the lesser amplifiers, unless (highly unlikely) they are way better not having to drive a full range load

However I am going to try bi-wiring as I have seen good suggestions recently that bi-wiring could reduce some of the possible cross-coupling from the high frequency to low frequency crossover sections. That might be of value, and simple bi-wiring ...

I never worry about it because my speakers can't be bi-wired.

skrivis · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Of course one good amplifier is likely going to sound better than two lesser amplifier because bi-amping is likely not going to eliminate the problems with the lesser amplifiers, unless (highly unlikely) they are way better not having to drive a full range load

So two channels of an OmegStar amp driving the speaker drivers directly are not as good as one channel of an Ultra driving a passive x-over and then the drivers? (I'm assuming the use of normal dynamic drivers.)

I figured that, between the gentler load on the amps, the increased control of the drivers, and the lack of extra resonant circuits, the overall improvement in the sound would be enough to come close to or even match that of the non-biamped setup with a slightly better amp.

avahifi · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:04 pm »

I think that would depend entirely on the quality of the electronic crossover. If it is chock full of 25 cent ICs as many are, then the worse case problem in your system would certainly be the quality of the music you can get out of your electronic crossover.

Frank Van Alstine

Toka · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Jan 2007, 08:42 pm »

Been a while since this thread saw action...has anyone else married AVA amps with the HT3's? Any further experiments into bi-wiring/bi-amping? I am wondering what gains could be had by using two Ultra 550's (with an Ultra Bridge) as monoblocks vs. the standard high/low biamp...will be a good while before I get to play with such things myself so the vicarious listen will have to do.

David Ellis · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Jan 2007, 08:51 pm »

I'll send you some wires for testing Frank.

I know you are a lamp-cord guy, but perhaps Mrs. VanAlstine can convince you otherwise in a few regards.

Dave

David Ellis · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Jan 2007, 08:57 pm »

And,

Quote

I think that would depend entirely on the quality of the electronic crossover. If it is chock full of 25 cent ICs as many are, then the worse case problem in your system would certainly be the quality of the music you can get out of your electronic crossover.

Very well said.

On a related note.

I recently replaced my BB2134 opamps with some BB2111 opamps, and the latter sounded much better.

There was a wise old gentlmen who once told me that di-fet opamps will inherently suffer do to thermal connection between the opamps "seperated" sides. Well, the BB2111 has some kind of thermal barrier internally, and it works

. That wise old gentlmen was right

. Thanks Frank.

Dave

David Ellis · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Jan 2007, 09:01 pm »

Quote

Been a while since this thread saw action...has anyone else married AVA amps with the HT3's?

Have you ever heard the HT3 with a single 550 amp?

//

To me, it makes little sense to pontificate about what COULD BE when you haven't heard what current IS extant - and sounds truly incredible!

Dave

Toka · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 03:12 pm »

I've heard AVA amps, and the HT3's, just not the two together...there is no doubt in my mind that it is a marriage made in heaven, but I suppose the discussion of bi-amping made me a little curious as to what, if any, real benefits anyone found using these specific components in such a fashion (rather using the Ultra bridge or not). I had targeted a 550/HT3 combo (saving my pennies now), but if two amps can turn heaven into mecha-heaven, I'll start saving my nickels too.