....he still can't hear the difference between Spotify and Tidal (he does appreciate the equipment upgrades).Very well put. Profound!
Some are music lovers, with no interest in improved resolution versus audiophiles who want music at higher resolution, and that's OK. Keep in mind that compared to years ago (transistor radios, cassette based walkman, boomboxes), the quality and convenience of portable music nowadays is extreme. Same for sound via the TV/VHS machine versus Blu-Ray and even modest HT systems. Life is good for the average music lover.I see audiophiles feeling threatened by cheap and easy solutions (like portable/tiny DACs, streaming, headphones) that approach the quality of our big, expensive, complicated systems (the point of diminishing returns can come into play very early). Frankly we're all prisoners of the same recording industry that sells to John Q. Public, not audiophiles. So they will cater to the vast majority of the market and are under pressure to produce recordings that flatter cheaper gear rather than the high-end stuff.
Thanks, Doc.Yes, blasted by outsiders. Good way to put it. Fact is, they are just jealous!
You just saved me from thoroughly crossing the line...whew...
Back on track - There's not a hobby in the world where the true enthusiast can't be called nutso from those outside looking in.
Maybe it's just because we are on the inside of this hobby that we seem to be blasted by the outsiders.
But I do have to wonder why the objective camp, who clearly does not care about the last smidge of SQ, feels that it is their responsibility to save us from ourselves and then mock if we don't grab onto their lifeline :scratch:
Do they go on sneaker web sites and say that the sneaker-ophile's opinion is not valid because it was not derived from a DBT? Do they go on the Rolex forum (assuming there is such a thing) and blast the Rolex owner because a $10 Timex does a better job? etc.
And one more thing - Don't we all insert the hidden words ("In my opinion...") prior to reading anything audio-related from any of us or from pro reviews? It's just comical how we get blasted for things that the "experts" say, regardless of whether we take them seriously or not.
-Mike
Update: Mr Anti-Audiophile visited last week. He didn't take me up on my offer to play something I described as an awesome demo. The reason? We talked too long and he had to leave. As he was leaving he mentioned some recent personal difficulties that he neglected to mention before. It occurred to me that he just can't "sit down" and enjoy the music. He has a lot on his mind. I said it's ironic because sitting and listening to a QUALITY system would probably help him relax a bit considering the stress he must be under. He chalked it up to a catch-22, stressed because he can't relax. After talking for a while about this I offered to lend him some equipment and he declined because he "won't make time to hook it up". Don't get this guy wrong, he's working in audio, mostly indirectly, but he knows more audio people than your average 50-something. So, suddenly we realized he was in a hurry and another half hour had gone by. Still, the music started when he left, but not before. He knows I'm writing about him.Lotta truth right there. I love to sit and listen to a really, really good system playing music that I like. I can frequently feel my blood pressure dropping....
- Tommy O
The social nature of our US society is changing, as evidenced by social networks and less TV watching, as well as less home ownership and marriage commitment. People seem to be in their own little worlds more, not talking politics with anyone and tending to believe much of what they read on the web. They avoid calling you on the phone and actually hold a conversation. They are more likely just to text, particularly if they don't know you, but even if they do. I would suspect that fewer people watch or read the news now than in the last 30 years. They seem to want to put their heads in the sand rather than being involved. They don't seem to give a damn about anyone but those in their little world. The grammatical errors in advertising and other news is on the rise. People held as role models are uneducated low-life. Sports figures routinely cheat. Students in college routinely cheat. The society is becoming more introverted, selfish, lazy and greedy overall IMO. Job applicants, even college grads have no work ethic. Also more stupid.
Okay, okay, back to stereo...
There was a similar article in Stereophile last issue. People see high-end stereo gear as a waste of money now. Even Bose is overpriced, as well as Pono. The real problem is a lack of culture in our society, or at least a lack of appreciation of culture and the arts. There is plenty of culture available, but people don't VALUE it. That is the problem really. Values are changing, and for the worse. Its a damn shame. The media is not helping either and frankly is mostly to blame. Performances and music media has not gotten suddenly extremely expensive, as has fine art. It is still affordable. And the sound quality that you can buy for $100 is a LOT better than what you could get 20 years ago. The difference is that everything is at your fingertips in your Ipad, so there is little motivation to go further.
Steve N.
Keep your political opinions to yourself. No one cares what members think about that. This is a audio site. Keep it that way.
Please clean it up. The post is out of line (and the assumptions are wrong, to boot). If the post is not edited out, it will likely be knocked off line again.I'll also edit that part out of my reply. You are correct, and we don't want this thread binned again. It's a good one! Thanks.
Please edit the same stuff out of your reply (take a look at what I did to mine). Thanks.
Keep your political opinions to yourself. No one cares what members think about that. This is a audio site. Keep it that way.
I binned Steve's post (politics) and Freo's post that quoted Steve's post (for politics.) Thanks Freo for speaking up.Thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Thanks to everyone for helping keep it on track! :thumb:
There are many excellent sounding new recordings, but perhaps not by the huge stars. Try John Fullbright's latest, "Songs" or Roseanne Cash's
"The River and the Thread". Seriously, I am constantly finding great sounding music that is of recent vintage. Or maybe I am just easy to please - it could happen.
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio. I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio. I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.
Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!
Any thought on that one?
Happy New Year!
Ahhhhh, the holidays.... Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".
Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!
Any thought on that one?
Happy New Year!
Ahhhhh, the holidays.... Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".
Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!
Any thought on that one?
Happy New Year!
This is a bit confusing to me... If this is your business how can it be a niche? Is she/he talking about a niche market?He considers the entire high end audio market a narrow niche (and shrinking at that).... This argument has gone on for quite a while, and he doesn't think much of the "audio hobby". We do agree that the economy has SOMETHING to do with times of slow sales, but disagree on the root cause. The love of music and the appreciation of great sound are lost on him. He has said that audiophiles are "out there". I agree, if it's superior intellect he's referring to (:
Happy New Year to All!
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-Tommy O
Commitment to the dedication necessary, and attention span for these activities will eventually erode this further.Best Buy's still in business?
This is why it will never be mainstream, or compete on a level with other noisy, costly hobbies, or other life priorities so the challenge is just to big, and I feel for sure the specific segment of audio we are talking about will continue to diminish regardless of what "social aspects" you try to assign as the root cause...
By the way the market share is minimal at best, and WAY too many companies right now can sell you what you need with virtually flawless performance whether a DAC, Class D amp or whatever. Unfortunately this industry will have to consolidate further much like it did when all the big boys were basically bought, and combined 5 to 10 years ago. Big reason we have 3 car companies now, and airlines which both have a much larger customer base, and nobody needs / wants this like transportation, or arguably firearms.
Pure practicality, and competition from alternatives will continue to be a challenge considering most people can get their music fix on a laptop, and headphones if necessary regardless of affordability, or marketing. High end audio for Audio-fools will serve its purpose as a very niche' group which is the best you can hope for, but a serious growing segment of the industry is very unlikely today.
So Harmon International learned this years ago when their home theater receivers would not cut the mustard if they wanted to be top dogs in electronic sales as it was way to small a segment, and went 95% into pure mobile / car systems.. Why was it successful, and big profits for them? 99% of the time to capture peoples attention span with music is on the go because people are forced with very little competition to sit in a car for 2 hours so audio is an easy sell, or even just 15 minuets back and fourth to work. Not to mention they integrated it all with other gadgets via GPS etc... Good luck getting most people to sit still in a basement staring at the wall like the old Maxell commercial because you better have an HDTV with that guy wearing 3d glasses!
Get into mobile or go home it seems might be the answer. Hell even Mcintosh, and Sonus faber are selling in Best Buy now!
Best Buy's still in business?About half an hour to go....
Just kidding.
Lots of excellent points in your posts! Thanks so much for taking the time to write them. You write very well, too, which is rare.
Would you consider supporting our efforts? Here's the link, and a $1 donation is all it takes to be counted:
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There's less than a day left on this campaign. Thanks again either way.
I think you might have figured the root cause! Thanks.
Sounds like someone is a bit jealous that you're doing what you love to do.
Carry on my wayward son....!
He considers the entire high end audio market a narrow niche (and shrinking at that).... This argument has gone on for quite a while, and he doesn't think much of the "audio hobby". We do agree that the economy has SOMETHING to do with times of slow sales, but disagree on the root cause. The love of music and the appreciation of great sound are lost on him. He has said that audiophiles are "out there". I agree, if it's superior intellect he's referring to (:
Thanks for your post.
It's a niche market , absolute cottage cheese and yes its been shrinking since the early 90's in the states. When Asia moves away from 2 ch the circle will close ....Oh ye of little faith.... I predict a resurgence led by Cherry products.... Thanks, and have a great weekend (:
WOWSpeaking of beauty.... What a beautifully written explanation of the bottom line. Great Audio is about Beauty! Thanks.
What a great post
And its is so interesting that so many posts here turn almost philosophical, religious and poetic,
music is about beauty, it reminds us of the mystical, and the mystical in us, I do see many audiophiles hurt this endeavor tho, many of these folks want very different things and yet use the same words to describe what "Good Is", for sun light on this, I think it is fare to say some folks who swear they love music really don't love anything except the pursuit of something they have put such high pedistalized hopes on,,, it is never reached.
Nothing sadder then never loving what you own, and, I think it is only important that something hypnotizes us in a healing way, even if the picture is not perfect.
I am most unhappy when folks ask me to go in search of perfection with them in a way that is a mean, cruel and unforgiving route to anywhere, which is also at the whole expense of never arriving.
I want to live beauty now, not in some over idealized future where the perfect speaker many never even be made.