AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Digital Amplifier Company Owners => Topic started by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Oct 2015, 05:50 pm

Title: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Oct 2015, 05:50 pm
A friend of mine visited last month, and ironically expressed MUCH enjoyment from a Maraschino demo, then said something like "Nobody has a high end audio system anymore.".

I asked him to elaborate and he responded with the following (he called these facts!):
1. People are too busy to listen to music.
2. Everyone listens to crappy quality audio on speaker phones and earbuds and likes it.
3. Audiophiles are dying off!
4. It's a waste of money, and usually LOTS of money.

I was insulted, but let him go on and on.  He was insulting all audiophiles, and I felt compelled to defend our great hobby.  I call it a hobby, but for some it's much more.

This conversation led to a multi-week debate....  In the end, he backed down quite a bit.  Still, not all the way.  I was confident that my argument was convincing.

I said the bottom line is listening.  Listening to music on a great system is extremely enjoyable.  Having a source of enjoyment is important, but it seems fewer and fewer people realize just how important it is.  Yes, this goes into psychology and even philosophy.

I'll post more about this later, including what really made him back down and admit he was WRONG.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: Folsom on 30 Oct 2015, 06:15 pm
That's not true... They're around. It's exposure that's lower because there's so many shops that closed, and the low end places that use to carry some ok gear no longer do.

It's dead like vinyl... well ok it's slightly more so than vinyl, but point being he's wrong.

It's more of an internet thing now. Although I don't know why RMAF participation is down.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: JLM on 30 Oct 2015, 07:39 pm
My dad observed a few years ago how caught up our culture is in entertainment and he was right.  Sports are everywhere, yet more is spent on gambling.  It seems like we're bombarded by movies and TV.  Of course home computing (thinking browsing and games) take incredible amounts of time.  Then there's recreational pastimes: hunting, fishing, boating, snowmobiling, on and on.  And you can't forget all those old fashioned pastimes from days gone by that some still follow like board games, various DIY pursuits, travel, and fine dining.  All this leaves less time or money for audio. 

Many of geeks have moved on to geekier computer related endeavors.  Many, the younger especially, have followed convenience routes to music (portable, streaming, wireless, and most importantly cheaper).  Most don't have an ear to hear audiophile parameters or un-amplified music.  I just ran into a young guy who had assembled a system based on his iPhone, Spotify, a cheap/tiny no name BlueTooth receiver/DAC, a 40 year old Marantz (used as a pre-amp), Crown 1500, and vintage speakers that he had repaired.  I've led him to buy a super cheap tablet, optical cable, cheap Schiit DAC, and BlueJean interconnects but he still can't hear the difference between Spotify and Tidal (he does appreciate the equipment upgrades).

This is an old discussion, but another aspect is the income gap as represented by what is promoted in audio (the mega-buck gear) and what the rest of us can afford.  Tell someone you saw a $200,000 turntable or a $67,000 pair of speaker cables recently and they instantly dismiss the entire industry.  Hidden underneath those headlines though is the fact that good sound is more affordable and convenient than ever.  Technology from the super expensive stuff has trickled down, computer technology has greatly helped to reduce cost/increase convenience, and material sciences continues to make advancements.  Examples abound in our Cheap and Cheerful circle. 

Now the challenge for the audiophile community to be more accessible.  The A/V community has a similar challenge.  All-in-one-box systems are tempting the unknowing into poor choices, yet they promote big bulky expensive and complicated systems.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Oct 2015, 08:18 pm
....he still can't hear the difference between Spotify and Tidal (he does appreciate the equipment upgrades).

Very well put.  Profound!

I was just visiting a friend (graduated college 2013) who I would consider a "potential audiophile".  He has Spotify "premium" (320 kbps, standard is 192 kbps or something like that), and considers it his primary source of in-home music.  I asked if the 320 kbps thing bothers him, and he said he would be willing to pay more for lossless.

Yes, one major concern is the view young people have toward recreation in general.  Many can't seem to sit in a seat without looking at their iPhone every 5 minutes, even well into their 20s.  Many don't watch TV "on a TV" anymore.  Entertainment is morphing.  Yes, movies are still very popular, but that's an outside-the-home activity.

Well, still more to report about that multi-week debate, later....  Have a nice weekend, all.   :)
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: smk on 30 Oct 2015, 08:32 pm
Right on the button, JLM. Audio has a serious marketing problem when stereo speakers MSRP is more than the GDP of some third world countries. And I think the original post about: "Everyone listens to crappy quality audio on speaker phones and earbuds and likes it" is a little over the top, but some part of me agrees.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: JLM on 30 Oct 2015, 10:52 pm
Some are music lovers, with no interest in improved resolution versus audiophiles who want music at higher resolution, and that's OK. 

Keep in mind that compared to years ago (transistor radios, cassette based walkman, boomboxes), the quality and convenience of portable music nowadays is extreme.  Same for sound via the TV/VHS machine versus Blu-Ray and even modest HT systems.  Life is good for the average music lover.

I see audiophiles feeling threatened by cheap and easy solutions (like portable/tiny DACs, streaming, headphones) that approach the quality of our big, expensive, complicated systems (the point of diminishing returns can come into play very early).  Frankly we're all prisoners of the same recording industry that sells to John Q. Public, not audiophiles.  So they will cater to the vast majority of the market and are under pressure to produce recordings that flatter cheaper gear rather than the high-end stuff.

Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: charmerci on 30 Oct 2015, 11:03 pm
Some are music lovers, with no interest in improved resolution versus audiophiles who want music at higher resolution, and that's OK.  Keep in mind that compared to years ago (transistor radios, cassette based walkman, boomboxes), the quality and convenience of portable music nowadays is extreme.  Same for sound via the TV/VHS machine versus Blu-Ray and even modest HT systems.  Life is good for the average music lover.I see audiophiles feeling threatened by cheap and easy solutions (like portable/tiny DACs, streaming, headphones) that approach the quality of our big, expensive, complicated systems (the point of diminishing returns can come into play very early).  Frankly we're all prisoners of the same recording industry that sells to John Q. Public, not audiophiles.  So they will cater to the vast majority of the market and are under pressure to produce recordings that flatter cheaper gear rather than the high-end stuff.


Yup, some people simply just don't care.


I have a friend who's really into music. I put on one of the best sounding recordings I had and turned it up. He wasn't the least bit interested about the sound because he just kept talking and didn't really care about the music so I had to turn it down and put something else on.

Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Oct 2015, 11:27 pm
One other point my friend made was that people are waaaaaay stressed out these days.  My comeback was that they would be less stressed out if they spend some time just relaxing to music.  He has cause and effect backward.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: londonbarn on 31 Oct 2015, 02:40 am
Well said JLM....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: OzarkTom on 31 Oct 2015, 04:16 am
For many of the younger crowd, video games is a release for stress. If you follow the downward trend of audio through the last 20-30 years, you will see a similar rise in home theatre and video games.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: Folsom on 31 Oct 2015, 05:00 am
I find the idea of denouncing our "big expensive ridiculous hobby" to be pathetic in the form of an argument.

Any audio gear that's worth a damn has a legacy quality to it. It can be re-used for a long time. Sure some of it might need a few parts or such at times, but... It has the potential to retain money and work in your own country.

Was a Luxman amp from the 1970's a big bad waste of resources, that was just used yesterday for vinyl, and goes for hundreds of dollars on eBay?

Or is it more wasteful to make utter crap, things that plug into an ipod today but not tomorrow, things that will sell for nothing at a garage sale or be thrown away.

Seriously how much waste and insult to people's livelihood are say some Daedalus speakers compared to the next boat load of plastic docks and ear buds for phones and ipods?

The youth today accepts bullshit wages, and are failing like a junkie shooting up heroine with a street bum after just quitting, in their efforts to reduce consumption. They can't seem to see the connection between tolerating shit for pay, and an inability to purchase legacy items to further their goals.

No one should be anything less than pissed off they can't afford to pay their neighbor for some respectable stereo equipment their kids could inherit. And the youth just make the assumption they'll never be able to afford it anyway.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: JLM on 31 Oct 2015, 01:40 pm
Yes we live in a disposable age, but not exactly sure how the current wage structure or heirloom quality gear directly relates to popularity of audio.

People's situations change, priorities drift, and of course technology marches on.  We live in an age of constant change and increasing complexity, accordingly romantic visions of holding on the stuff for decades or generations are being more and more rare.  Some vintage gear is still functioning well, but just like ancient buildings, only the very best are still in use.  How much of legacy gear is still useful/competitive?  And we're discussing luxury items, not something we all need like furniture, maybe a car, or a house.

Note that many audiophiles value the hunt of gear more than the prize of putting together a great system, so destiny pieces have no meaning to them.

Daedalus is a good example of wonderful destination gear: Expensive (few can afford to prioritize them ahead of a car, downpayment on a house, etc.); Huge (again few have properly setup/large space to use them to their full capacity); Poor domestic acceptance (to sound good they need to dominate the room and the finishes put all but the very best furniture to shame).  In these times of tight economies, downsizing, competing forms of entertainment, and convenience too much must be sacrificed to bring something like a wonderful pair of Daedalus speakers into all but the homes of the top 1%. 

Yes in this age of instant gratification it's tempting to jump at the latest affordable gizmo, few of which are well made.  Conversely owning a substantial CD library is a sick joke when you can have the same from Tidal for $20/month (that requires no storage/insurance and can be used anywhere on all your devices).  My speakers use a full range driver that is no longer made, so if/when they fail what use could I get out of the quarter sawn cherry cabinets?  What about my killer cassette deck from 1977 (that I can't remember whatever happened to it)?  And what is the cost of swapping legacy pieces just to find out it doesn't synergize with your system and having to sell it at a loss?
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: mfsoa on 31 Oct 2015, 04:23 pm
Thanks, Doc.

You just saved me from thoroughly crossing the line...whew...

Back on track - There's not a hobby in the world where the true enthusiast can't be called nutso from those outside looking in.

Maybe it's just because we are on the inside of this hobby that we seem to be blasted by the outsiders.

But I do have to wonder why the objective camp, who clearly does not care about the last smidge of SQ, feels that it is their responsibility to save us from ourselves and then mock if we don't grab onto their lifeline :scratch:

Do they go on sneaker web sites and say that the sneaker-ophile's opinion is not valid because it was not derived from a DBT?  Do they go on the Rolex forum (assuming there is such a thing) and blast the Rolex owner because a $10 Timex does a better job? etc.

And one more thing - Don't we all insert the hidden words ("In my opinion...") prior to reading anything audio-related from any of us or from pro reviews? It's just comical how we get blasted for things that the "experts" say, regardless of whether we take them seriously or not.

-Mike

Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Nov 2015, 01:20 pm
Thanks, Doc.

You just saved me from thoroughly crossing the line...whew...

Back on track - There's not a hobby in the world where the true enthusiast can't be called nutso from those outside looking in.

Maybe it's just because we are on the inside of this hobby that we seem to be blasted by the outsiders.

But I do have to wonder why the objective camp, who clearly does not care about the last smidge of SQ, feels that it is their responsibility to save us from ourselves and then mock if we don't grab onto their lifeline :scratch:

Do they go on sneaker web sites and say that the sneaker-ophile's opinion is not valid because it was not derived from a DBT?  Do they go on the Rolex forum (assuming there is such a thing) and blast the Rolex owner because a $10 Timex does a better job? etc.

And one more thing - Don't we all insert the hidden words ("In my opinion...") prior to reading anything audio-related from any of us or from pro reviews? It's just comical how we get blasted for things that the "experts" say, regardless of whether we take them seriously or not.

-Mike
Yes, blasted by outsiders.  Good way to put it.  Fact is, they are just jealous!

My friend did admit that he wishes he had a nice "audiophile level" setup sometimes.

(:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: soundbitten1 on 4 Nov 2015, 01:33 pm
There is no need for hand wringing. Everyone must find their own way.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Nov 2015, 11:45 pm
Update: Mr Anti-Audiophile visited last week. He didn't take me up on my offer to play something I described as an awesome demo. The reason?  We talked too long and he had to leave. As he was leaving he mentioned some recent personal difficulties that he neglected to mention before. It occurred to me that he just can't "sit down" and enjoy the music. He has a lot on his mind.  I said it's ironic because sitting and listening to a QUALITY system would probably help him relax a bit considering the stress he must be under. He chalked it up to a catch-22, stressed because he can't relax.  After talking for a while about this I offered to lend him some equipment and he declined because he "won't make time to hook it up".  Don't get this guy wrong, he's working in audio, mostly indirectly, but he knows more audio people than your average 50-something. So, suddenly we realized he was in a hurry and another half hour had gone by. Still, the music started when he left, but not before.  He knows I'm writing about him.

- Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: SoCalWJS on 27 Nov 2015, 12:08 am
Update: Mr Anti-Audiophile visited last week. He didn't take me up on my offer to play something I described as an awesome demo. The reason?  We talked too long and he had to leave. As he was leaving he mentioned some recent personal difficulties that he neglected to mention before. It occurred to me that he just can't "sit down" and enjoy the music. He has a lot on his mind.  I said it's ironic because sitting and listening to a QUALITY system would probably help him relax a bit considering the stress he must be under. He chalked it up to a catch-22, stressed because he can't relax. After talking for a while about this I offered to lend him some equipment and he declined because he "won't make time to hook it up".  Don't get this guy wrong, he's working in audio, mostly indirectly, but he knows more audio people than your average 50-something. So, suddenly we realized he was in a hurry and another half hour had gone by. Still, the music started when he left, but not before.  He knows I'm writing about him.

- Tommy O
Lotta truth right there. I love to sit and listen to a really, really good system playing music that I like. I can frequently feel my blood pressure dropping....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: dB Cooper on 27 Nov 2015, 02:21 am
It's things like $67K speaker cables (do they exist? Sennheiser makes $55,000 headphones...) that create the public image (to the extent that this hobby has a public image) of a bunch of wackos. Personally I think it's 'wacko' to spend 67K on speakers, let alone cables, but if you've got it and don't care, why should I.

By the way, I have heard the 'audio is dying' argument from several people involved in running and/or exhibiting at audio shows. It isn't just your friend. These shows exist at least in part because the industry isn't healthy enough to support a retail infrastructure (where people can be exposed to quality sound, and importantly, listen before they buy) anymore. I have been an audiophile for over 40 years. When I started out, there were audio shops scattered all over my hometown. To my knowledge, only two remain today, and the owner of one of them told me that it wasn't for home theater, he would have to close his doors. Music systems won't keep the lights on. There needs to be a step up from el cheapo mass market caca before you get to "deep end" six figure conspicuous-consumption set ups. It's there, but you really gotta hunt for it.

This is all very sad because, when you think about it, music is as close to a universal language as any art form can get. It is everywhere where there are people and it is hard to find someone who doesn't like some form of music. Good sounding music in the home should be an easy sell but $67,000 speaker cables aren't going to help the cause. BTW, I've heard a number of megabuck systems that sounded quite inferior to some more reasonably priced gear. To each his own.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: JLM on 27 Nov 2015, 03:06 am
What's high-end?  For the average joe, it might be seen as a $1000 system.  For many audiophiles it might take a $10,000 system.  For some it might be represented by at least a $100,000 system.  BTW I listened to $67k speaker cables (connected to $200k+ speakers) last summer at a local shop.

Seems like this guy is too busy (or poorly manages his time) and has a very limited attention span (all quite common nowadays).  We are becoming more and more addicted to stimulation.  Some can't even sleep without music or TV on.  And it seems that we're more jittery (exhibiting nervous energy) even while we're less physically active.  Being busy has gotten to be fashionable (it uncool to not be busy).  So it's getting increasingly hard for folks to just sit and seriously listen (without picking up a book or falling asleep).  These same people get bored watching baseball or a play.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: sfox7076 on 27 Nov 2015, 03:35 am
This thread constantly amuses me.  Anyway, audio isn't the issue.  It is the changing nature of retail. What shops in your town that sell elastic demand goods are doing well?  convenience is key. People want to order online from Amazon and just have it show up. 
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: geowak on 27 Nov 2015, 04:49 pm
This is a great discussion. It can go in many directions for sure. To me this hobby is very much about money. Many, many people cannot afford hi end gear. Period. Some affordable systems in the $2500 to $5000 range are too much to spend for the average person. The hobby of hi fidelity is mostly for the well to do. Spotify, Vintage Marantz receivers, older turntables, ipods, iphones are all afforable devices. I spent far more money on my system than what the average joe would have. And mine would be laughable compared to the systems I see here on AC.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: bacobits1 on 27 Nov 2015, 07:14 pm
I'll delete my post anyway.
No politics but this is AmpDesigner's board I didn't notice that.

I don't post much here anymore.


Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: md92468 on 27 Nov 2015, 08:02 pm
This isn't as absolute an argument as some here are making it out to be. Spending and listening habits are definitely changing among younger people, but the decision to buy a system isn't purely based on sonics. Or durability. Or even logic. 

As always, buying decisions are made based on a complicated blend of factors. To think that most consumers follow a logical path to purchasing an object - any object - is naive and oversimplified; ego and social pressure are significant drivers of choice, for example, and neither is based on logic. Emotional connection also plays a huge role...as Dr. Donald Caine once said,  “The essential difference between emotion and reason is that emotion leads to action, while reason leads to conclusions.”

The operative question when trying to reach customers is where you resonate with them - where do your values and beliefs overlap with theirs. This is where branding comes in. To know that answer to those questions, you need to know what these folks value – what music means to them, what home entertainment means to them, what buying an object means to them. Steve Jobs was a savant at this (whether or not you like his products).

Most manufacturers and retailers do far too little consumer research before developing a product, assuming that if they check all the right boxes & make all the right feature sets they'll sell more. Eventually, and often painfully, they learn that this isn't enough.

The bottom line on the argument is that if folks continue to paint with such broad strokes (audiophiles are X & Y, but not Z), they'll continue to miss opportunities. A nickel's worth of free advice: spend AT LEAST as much time listening to feedback about your products (and other people's products) as you do developing ideas for new products or improvements. Pay particular attention to people you are failing to reach. And leave your ego at the door...
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Nov 2015, 08:49 pm
The social nature of our US society is changing, as evidenced by social networks and less TV watching, as well as less home ownership and marriage commitment.  People seem to be in their own little worlds more, not talking politics with anyone and tending to believe much of what they read on the web. They avoid calling you on the phone and actually hold a conversation.  They are more likely just to text, particularly if they don't know you, but even if they do.   I would suspect that fewer people watch or read the news now than in the last 30 years.  They seem to want to put their heads in the sand rather than being involved.  They don't seem to give a damn about anyone but those in their little world.  The grammatical errors in advertising and other news is on the rise.  People held as role models are uneducated low-life.  Sports figures routinely cheat.  Students in college routinely cheat.  The society is becoming more introverted, selfish, lazy and greedy overall IMO.    Job applicants, even college grads have no work ethic.   Also more stupid.

Okay, okay, back to stereo...

There was a similar article in Stereophile last issue.  People see high-end stereo gear as a waste of money now.  Even Bose is overpriced, as well as Pono.  The real problem is a lack of culture in our society, or at least a lack of appreciation of culture and the arts.  There is plenty of culture available, but people don't VALUE it.  That is the problem really.  Values are changing, and for the worse.  Its a damn shame.  The media is not helping either and frankly is mostly to blame.  Performances and music media has not gotten suddenly extremely expensive, as has fine art.  It is still affordable.  And the sound quality that you can buy for $100 is a LOT better than what you could get 20 years ago.  The difference is that everything is at your fingertips in your Ipad, so there is little motivation to go further.

Steve N.

Steve,

I really enjoyed reading your post!  You sure are good at expressing yourself, and that's something that we also see/hear less and less of these days.  Grammar errors in advertising: Holy crap!  This is one of my MAJOR pet peeves.  There's an ad that says "Live Awesome"!  What the hell?  Reminds me of when people say "drive safe".  How hard is adjective versus adverb?  It's even hard for me to write it that way.  People butcher the English language.  Here's another one, and I hear newscasters do this ALL THE TIME: "There's...." then a plural.  I sit and scream "There ARE" at the TV frequently, especially during the 11 o'clock news, which I watch about once a week.  ....and another thing, spell checkers are on almost every device people use to send messages.  I abbreviate like a madman when texting, but in emails, why can't people just check the spelling before hitting SEND?  Ugh.  I'm wound tightly as it is, and listening to poor grammar can make my blood pressure rise a bit.  So....  I just need to listen to music again to get it back down.

Yes, the world is in "quality decline".  Point well taken about certain countries.

Well, I really hope I didn't have any grammar mistakes.  I did use spell check (:  I copy posts into my email SW to check it since it knows all the acronyms, etc.

By the way, when I'm out with the kids, I'm constantly getting compliments on their manners.  Thanks to my grammar police side-job, they are hyper-aware of these things, too.  I'll make audiophiles out of them!  OK, back off my high horse and into the lab to continue finalizing the MINT Maraschino, which is going very well now, aside from vendor delays.  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Nov 2015, 09:03 pm





Keep your political opinions to yourself.  No one cares what members think about that.  This is a audio site.  Keep it that way.

Maybe just edit out the political comment....  This thread was temporarily taken off the map because of a similar post.  I don't want that happening again!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: Freo-1 on 27 Nov 2015, 09:06 pm
deleted.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Nov 2015, 09:14 pm
Please clean it up.  The post is out of line (and the assumptions are wrong, to boot).  If the post is not edited out, it will likely be knocked off line again.
I'll also edit that part out of my reply.  You are correct, and we don't want this thread binned again.  It's a good one!  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Nov 2015, 09:17 pm





Keep your political opinions to yourself.  No one cares what members think about that.  This is a audio site.  Keep it that way.
Please edit the same stuff out of your reply (take a look at what I did to mine).  Thanks.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: adminRH on 27 Nov 2015, 11:20 pm
I binned Steve's post (politics) and Freo's post that quoted Steve's post (for politics.) Thanks Freo for speaking up.

Thanks to everyone for helping keep it on track!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Nov 2015, 05:53 pm
I binned Steve's post (politics) and Freo's post that quoted Steve's post (for politics.) Thanks Freo for speaking up.

Thanks to everyone for helping keep it on track!  :thumb:
Thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: timind on 28 Nov 2015, 07:18 pm
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: glynnw on 28 Nov 2015, 07:50 pm
There are many excellent sounding new recordings, but perhaps not by the huge stars.  Try John Fullbright's latest, "Songs" or Roseanne Cash's
"The River and the Thread".  Seriously, I am constantly finding great sounding music that is of recent vintage.  Or maybe I am just easy to please - it could happen.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: timind on 28 Nov 2015, 09:42 pm
There are many excellent sounding new recordings, but perhaps not by the huge stars.  Try John Fullbright's latest, "Songs" or Roseanne Cash's
"The River and the Thread".  Seriously, I am constantly finding great sounding music that is of recent vintage.  Or maybe I am just easy to please - it could happen.

Well I did say "popular." I am able to find new music that is recorded well but I'm not talking about artists you or I listen to. I have 4 grandsons and not one of them is likely to listen to Roseanne Cash or John Fullbright.

Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: Freo-1 on 28 Nov 2015, 11:12 pm
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.

There is much truth in your post.  There has been complaints about the quality of audio recordings for years now.  Google "loudness wars"  to get a more detailed explanation.  I remember when the Killers were all the rage, and the recording quality was pitiful. 

I grew up in tail end of the golden age of audio.  There were still Dynaco kits, HK Citation kits, and quality gear such as Scott/Fisher available.  It used to be more of a real hobby, where hobbyists could actually build their own amps/preamps.  There were a fair amount of audio specialty stores available, where one got exposed to quality sound.  The recording engineers paid attention to their task at hand.  Even recordings from rock/blues bands such as Savoy Brown were done by Decca engineers, who mostly worked with classical.  The RCA Red Label and Mercury Living Presence recordings are still considered to be among the best.

I think it is fair to say that high end audio always has been and will be a niche market.  And that is OK.  I think the best audio lovers can hope for is to expose your friends and family to the benefits of listening to quality music,  and IF they ask for help, point them towards a better sounding system at their price point.  I've been able to do just that with friends and family members.  Most of us here have enough experience to provide support if asked.  Many folks are primarily interested in surround sound setups.  One can put together a decent surround setup that also will sound good with two channel audio. 




 
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Dec 2015, 02:19 pm
This just in:
"The DAC DAC is another example of a product only a few people will want.".

We'll see about that!  We've introduced several products over the years, and the DAC DAC has generated more initial interest than all of them COMBINED!

My buddy's explanation is starting to lose its ability to hold water. There are plenty of people interested in beyond-mainstream quality audio, especially considering Tidal, HD Tracks, and other sources of high-res audio content.

I pointed that out, plus, this is our first non-amp product. Again, we'll see....  I think the audiophile market is about to enjoy a revitalization!!!!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 14 Dec 2015, 06:26 pm
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.

I have to agree.  The quality of recordings of popular music today is awful.  My daughter would occasionally play some hip hop or R&B on my system and it sounds awful.  Same for Adele.

People definitely hear things different and some of it has to do with how important music is to them.  My son is 23 and he has a friend that comes over from time to time.  My son who has turned into an audiophile (thanks to dad giving him his Parasound A21 amp and my AVA preamp) has played music for his friend.  His friend stated that my system (Pass amp, BAT preamp, Luxman DAC and Magnepan 1.6's) does not sound any better than the Bose HT system that his dad bought.  This kid is not that into music however and just listens to it for background music.

I am lucky as my son loves music and appreciates quality recordings.  He had developed a great appreciation of vocal music, big band, jazz, blue's, new age (he loves Windham Hill) and classic rock.  We frequently have a drink and listen to music for 1-2 hours at a time.  He also had a great appreciation for vinyl.  His enthusiasm for high quality audio is starting to rub off on one of his friends who has hinted that he want's help putting together a good sounding budget system.

I think that today more than ever, you can put together a very nice sounding budget system for just a few hundred dollars.  I have a dayton DTA 100a digital amp that I paid $50 for on sale and I run it with an old Denon DVD player and Monitor Audio S1 speakers that I bought on sale for $400.  The system sounds awesome in my bedroom.

There are a lot of great sounding budget components like the AQ Dragon Fly, Elac speakers, Pioneer speakers, Emotiva amps, Dayton and tripath amps, etc.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Dec 2015, 10:36 pm
Ahhhhh, the holidays....  Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".

Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!

Any thought on that one?

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: paul79 on 30 Dec 2015, 10:44 pm
You could always try heroin......
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: foz1982 on 30 Dec 2015, 10:48 pm
I would only give up my niche right after I gave up my other nasty habit. BREATHING.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: bacobits1 on 30 Dec 2015, 10:48 pm
Audiophile niche?
I've been in a niche for over 40 years no one has ever told me to get out of that.

Have a great New Year!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: G Georgopoulos on 31 Dec 2015, 01:26 am


Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!

Any thought on that one?

Happy New Year!

get into professional audio,big opportunities there for good class-d amps  :green:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: charmerci on 31 Dec 2015, 02:31 am
Ahhhhh, the holidays....  Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".

Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!

Any thought on that one?

Happy New Year!


Sounds like someone is a bit jealous that you're doing what you love to do.


Carry on my wayward son....!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: gregfisk on 31 Dec 2015, 02:31 am
Ahhhhh, the holidays....  Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".

Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!

Any thought on that one?

Happy New Year!

This is a bit confusing to me... If this is your business how can it be a niche? Is she/he talking about a niche market?

Happy New Year to All!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Dec 2015, 03:13 pm
Laughing out loud here!  Great replies!  Thanks (:

Happy New Year!
Title: In search of 100 anti-Anti-Audiophile Guys (and Gals)
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Jan 2016, 09:53 pm
Here's the link:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

Please pledge $1 to show support for Audiophiles and our no-nonsense approach to fine audio.

It only takes a minute or so to pledge and BE COUNTED!

We're tying to get to 100 backers by Monday so the program gets major exposure on project highlight sites.  Anti-Audiophile Guy said "no way you'll get 100 backers.".  Let's prove him WRONG!  Thanks, all (:

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Jan 2016, 11:47 pm
This is a bit confusing to me... If this is your business how can it be a niche? Is she/he talking about a niche market?

Happy New Year to All!
He considers the entire high end audio market a narrow niche (and shrinking at that)....  This argument has gone on for quite a while, and he doesn't think much of the "audio hobby".  We do agree that the economy has SOMETHING to do with times of slow sales, but disagree on the root cause.  The love of music and the appreciation of great sound are lost on him.  He has said that audiophiles are "out there".  I agree, if it's superior intellect he's referring to (:

Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: In search of 100 anti-Anti-Audiophile Guys (and Gals)
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2016, 01:45 pm
Here's the link:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

Please pledge $1 to show support for Audiophiles and our no-nonsense approach to fine audio.

It only takes a minute or so to pledge and BE COUNTED!

We're tying to get to 100 backers by Monday so the program gets major exposure on project highlight sites.  Anti-Audiophile Guy said "no way you'll get 100 backers.".  Let's prove him WRONG!  Thanks, all (:

-Tommy O
ONLY 34 HOURS LEFT !!!!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: undertow on 12 Jan 2016, 04:12 pm
Most people have more time to waste writing comments here trying to prove a point than to listen to their systems. For the most part many systems sit, and collect dust 6 days of the week on average just like that treadmill, for some people they use their system 6 days a year total!

The real problem whether you can afford it or not it comes down to the practicality of the whole thing.

Reality is unless you can have a dedicated area (environment), IE. nobody else around to bother, or a soundproofed room in order to go crank the tunes anytime you want, even better if you have a soundproofed room at work which we all spend 90% of our waking hours. The costs, and intricacies involved to truly make a system great or use able is a whole other domestic problem compared to other hobbies.

Its sorta like Firearms for people being a fairly significant investment, but you can't just walk outside and shoot anywhere, or in your house unless you have a specific environment which some lucky people do. Most people get to go to a range a few times a year, and enjoy the process of cleaning, and using them, but unfortunately these types of activities are expensive, and hard to integrate into everyone's lives.

So in the end with the "Vinyl" resurgence its mostly guys hanging out for 30 minuets in their apartment listening on headphones. Even many seasoned veterans are giving up, and "Making it simpler"... It is not just a challenge of pricing or marketing at this point.

Just look at the ridiculous amount of used equipment available which has made Audiogon rich with a good majority of people struggling to just get rid of stuff, and not necessarily to upgrade.

So I can see the push back on this specifically when you break down the absolute sound restrictions. Basically you can run around on a loud Harley outside, or playing your Maserati/Harmon auto sound system, but when it comes to audio as a hobby for stress or relaxation its a very tricky situation to do it when or where you need to do it. So I can totally see why it might just be the most unobtainable "hobby" out there for most individuals.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: undertow on 12 Jan 2016, 06:33 pm
Commitment to the dedication necessary, and attention span for these activities will eventually erode this further.

This is why it will never be mainstream, or compete on a level with other noisy, costly hobbies, or other life priorities so the challenge is just to big, and I feel for sure the specific segment of audio we are talking about will continue to diminish regardless of what "social aspects" you try to assign as the root cause...

By the way the market share is minimal at best, and WAY too many companies right now can sell you what you need with virtually flawless performance whether a DAC, Class D amp or whatever. Unfortunately this industry will have to consolidate further much like it did when all the big boys were basically bought, and combined 5 to 10 years ago. Big reason we have 3 car companies now, and airlines which both have a much larger customer base, and nobody needs / wants this like transportation, or arguably firearms.

Pure practicality, and competition from alternatives will continue to be a challenge considering most people can get their music fix on a laptop, and headphones if necessary regardless of affordability, or marketing. High end audio for Audio-fools will serve its purpose as a very niche' group which is the best you can hope for, but a serious growing segment of the industry is very unlikely today.

So Harmon International learned this years ago when their home theater receivers would not cut the mustard if they wanted to be top dogs in electronic sales as it was way to small a segment, and went 95% into pure mobile / car systems.. Why was it successful, and big profits for them? 99% of the time to capture peoples attention span with music is on the go because people are forced with very little competition to sit in a car for 2 hours so audio is an easy sell, or even just 15 minuets back and fourth to work. Not to mention they integrated it all with other gadgets via GPS etc... Good luck getting most people to sit still in a basement staring at the wall like the old Maxell commercial because you better have an HDTV with that guy wearing 3d glasses!

Get into mobile or go home it seems might be the answer. Hell even Mcintosh, and Sonus faber are selling in Best Buy now!
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Jan 2016, 01:28 am
Commitment to the dedication necessary, and attention span for these activities will eventually erode this further.

This is why it will never be mainstream, or compete on a level with other noisy, costly hobbies, or other life priorities so the challenge is just to big, and I feel for sure the specific segment of audio we are talking about will continue to diminish regardless of what "social aspects" you try to assign as the root cause...

By the way the market share is minimal at best, and WAY too many companies right now can sell you what you need with virtually flawless performance whether a DAC, Class D amp or whatever. Unfortunately this industry will have to consolidate further much like it did when all the big boys were basically bought, and combined 5 to 10 years ago. Big reason we have 3 car companies now, and airlines which both have a much larger customer base, and nobody needs / wants this like transportation, or arguably firearms.

Pure practicality, and competition from alternatives will continue to be a challenge considering most people can get their music fix on a laptop, and headphones if necessary regardless of affordability, or marketing. High end audio for Audio-fools will serve its purpose as a very niche' group which is the best you can hope for, but a serious growing segment of the industry is very unlikely today.

So Harmon International learned this years ago when their home theater receivers would not cut the mustard if they wanted to be top dogs in electronic sales as it was way to small a segment, and went 95% into pure mobile / car systems.. Why was it successful, and big profits for them? 99% of the time to capture peoples attention span with music is on the go because people are forced with very little competition to sit in a car for 2 hours so audio is an easy sell, or even just 15 minuets back and fourth to work. Not to mention they integrated it all with other gadgets via GPS etc... Good luck getting most people to sit still in a basement staring at the wall like the old Maxell commercial because you better have an HDTV with that guy wearing 3d glasses!

Get into mobile or go home it seems might be the answer. Hell even Mcintosh, and Sonus faber are selling in Best Buy now!
Best Buy's still in business?

Just kidding.

Lots of excellent points in your posts!  Thanks so much for taking the time to write them.  You write very well, too, which is rare.

Would you consider supporting our efforts?  Here's the link, and a $1 donation is all it takes to be counted:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
There's less than a day left on this campaign.  Thanks again either way.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Jan 2016, 11:50 pm
Best Buy's still in business?

Just kidding.

Lots of excellent points in your posts!  Thanks so much for taking the time to write them.  You write very well, too, which is rare.

Would you consider supporting our efforts?  Here's the link, and a $1 donation is all it takes to be counted:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
There's less than a day left on this campaign.  Thanks again either way.
About half an hour to go....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Jan 2016, 12:36 pm

Sounds like someone is a bit jealous that you're doing what you love to do.


Carry on my wayward son....!
I think you might have figured the root cause!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: a.wayne on 15 Jan 2016, 02:54 pm
He considers the entire high end audio market a narrow niche (and shrinking at that)....  This argument has gone on for quite a while, and he doesn't think much of the "audio hobby".  We do agree that the economy has SOMETHING to do with times of slow sales, but disagree on the root cause.  The love of music and the appreciation of great sound are lost on him.  He has said that audiophiles are "out there".  I agree, if it's superior intellect he's referring to (:

Thanks for your post.

It's a niche market , absolute cottage cheese  and yes its been shrinking since the early 90's  in the states. When Asia moves away from 2 ch the circle will close ....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Jan 2016, 10:01 pm
It's a niche market , absolute cottage cheese  and yes its been shrinking since the early 90's  in the states. When Asia moves away from 2 ch the circle will close ....
Oh ye of little faith....  I predict a resurgence led by Cherry products....  Thanks, and have a great weekend (:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: a.wayne on 17 Jan 2016, 01:23 am
Ok , you are right , i miscalculated ....  :thumb:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Jan 2016, 07:56 pm
OK, here's one for you....  Mister anti-audiophile told me to "sell wire at a 20x markup, like the other guys, the SMART guys".  You could have heard me yell "What the ****?" from the next county!  After all the conversations where I explained that I DESPISE audio rip-offs, he's just trying to get me riled up at this point.

This particular conversation started because I had an argument on Facebook about HDMI cables.  Some company is telling people that their HDMI cable is "louder" than competitor's products.  I explained that HDMI is an all-digital interface, so they must be lying.  He agreed that they are lying, but claims this proves his ridiculous theory.

He reminded me of the reaction to my "truth thread" last year.  He said I'm fighting an impossible battle against the liars because "audio guys believe them".

We eventually agreed that this is something that's unfortunately prevalent in all of CONSUMER ELECTRONICS, not just audio.  I argued: as the price goes up, the customer has the tendency to be more educated.  He agreed with that too!  So, his argument contradicts itself.  Without getting too personal, he sends me emails occasionally with political cartoons and such.  His arguments in that area don't hold water either.  I could write more about our most recent conversation, but I'm frustrated enough now that I wrote that.  Thanks for reading it.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: jseipp on 28 Jan 2016, 03:01 am
Tommy, I for one believe what I hear and I believe that the more "audio guys" hear your stuff, the more loyal customers you'll have.  Relationships of every kind work best when they're grounded in honesty, not based on trading in snake oil.

At the bottom of it all, in this pursuit hearing is believing....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: virtue on 28 Jan 2016, 09:15 am
A few quick thoughts...

1. Most of us are totally overloaded with work and recreational opportunities.  Audio time is relatively more "expensive" now that alternatives have improved (ie. TV programming, internet, shopping, cooking, fitness, etc.)  So I'd agree with his initial observation.

2. Products like SONOS are absolutely amazing and affordable.  The "fake" prosumer niche that Bose had to themselves for so many years is now quite "real" and very compelling.  Are these customers "undeserving" or unworthy of being considered "audiophiles?"  Maybe some of them don't really "care" about "high-end" audio to participate in an experience to which we all relate.  That is the essential disconnect with people like us who really do care (and often our spouses).

3. "Audiophile" begs definition.  I would argue that it has something to do with having an elevated or unusual interest in audio products, for any of a number of reasons including sonic quality, value, technology, community, pride, patronage, identity, bragging rights, craftsmanship, aesthetics, music, etc.  Why do people buy expensive artwork?  Many reasons... and most in the eye of the beholder.  Is it wrong that when Ikea started carrying prints, a whole bunch of people got color on their walls for the first time?  Can you buy Ikea prints and still be an appreciator of "art"?

4. An appreciation for SQ does not even require an appreciation for music (that sounds awful, doesn't it?) or for relaxing, etc.  My first audiophile experience was a very technical one - listening to cave recordings of water droplets. 

5.  Listening to music alone stimulates our brains differently from other activities.  It lends itself to meditative states, reflection,  euphoria, etc...  but also permits multi-tasking.  For that reason, some will invest more to get a higher quality experience and often buy separates for variety.

Seth
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: carmaniac13 on 29 Jan 2016, 02:50 am
So I'm the friend Tommy mentioned early in this thread who uses Spotify for the most part. (as he mentioned, I at least have the premium version 320kbps streaming)

A lot of good points have been made in this thread.  Two really resonated with me:

1. The discussion of the loudness wars.  This is part of the reason I use Spotify.  Most of my casual listening is "mainstream" music, which is almost all terribly mastered these days, so the difference between 320 and lossless is going to be a moot point on most recordings.  At the moment, I'd rather spend $10 on Spotify than $20 on Tidal.  I may give Tidal a shot at some point though.  For both better and worse, Apple changed the music game with the iPod.  Music became super accessible and portable, and convenience/accessibility took priority over quality.  As such, the record labels adapted to the market (who could blame them), and now master their music to "sound good" on earbuds. (using compression and brickwalling, to limit dynamic range and allow people to drive their car, walk around, ride the train, work at their desk, with a stream of music at constant volume)

2. The comment about IKEA starting to sell art prints.  "Audiophiles" will always be a niche in the market.  Because audiophiles, in my opinion, are people that put a priority on quality sound in their lives.  The fact of the matter is that most people will never put sound quality ahead of the other priorities they have in life, and that's OK.  That being said though, audiophiles are the reason there is high quality sound equipment still being developed and sold.  And we should rejoice at that, because ultimately, the R&D to make the high quality equipment that we'll pay a premium for, gets to eventually trickle down into economical products that the masses are willing to pay for.  And that's really our hope, isn't it?  To get as many people as we can to experience high quality sound, and enjoy that experience.  I would argue that just because someone doesn't prioritize high quality audio equipment in their life, doesn't mean they wouldn't appreciate listening to it.  So luckily, the average consumer has access to higher quality budget equipment than ever before, and that quality can only get better as research and materials push the envelope of what's achievable on a budget.

Unrelated, I'll be hosting an equipment demo for Digital Amplifier Company on Feb 6 in Allentown.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139553.0

If anyone is interested in stopping by, get in touch with me or Tommy!

Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: SteveMiller on 30 Jan 2016, 07:59 pm
Seth.....   

I keep reading your post.   Well said.   I think I'll save those lines as each time I read it I comprehend the ideas a little more.  1-5 are all well thought but interestingly presented and interpreted observations on our culture at this time.   You must be a keen observer of fellow humans.  We should compare notes! 

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Feb 2016, 11:06 pm
Addressing mister anti-audiophile's comment about "no young audiophiles"....

Ha!  We had an audio party yesterday (thanks, Nick!) and about HALF the listeners were under the age of 35!  I was totally shocked!!!!

We listened to detailed music as well as blasting Tool, and even played some sound effects.  We listened to various amps, including the Golden Cherry (yes!) on the little Pioneers (Andrew J design), my custom MTMs (Vifa/Seas), and Nick's homemade horn based speakers (impressive).  Some of the young listeners left after the first few hours, but in the end, it was me and three other listeners, and I was be FAR :cry: the OLDEST one there!

Here's the thread about the party:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140541.0
I'll add photos sometime in the near future....
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Feb 2016, 01:17 pm
Conversation with a "high end dealer" last week....  This guy makes mister anti-audiophile seem like a teddy bear.  Let me preface this with the fact that I've talked to many dealers about selling Digital Amp Co products, and this guy is NOT TYPICAL.  Most dealers I've talked to are hard working, customer oriented music lovers, and genuinely into audio gear.

This particular guy said: "I don't even listen to the stuff.  I just know what audiophiles want.  Who has time to waste listening to music?  I have an active lifestyle!"

No joke.  This guy also claimed to sell millions worth of equipment per year to people with "more money than brains"!  I'm not worried about him reading this because he said he's not a fan of Audio Circle because that's for "people without money".  He also said that a 40% markup is "bare bones"!

We sell direct, by the way.  That way, you get a lower price, but this hurts our ability to reach new customers.  We know of a few GOOD dealers that may be carrying Digital Amp Co products in the near future.  Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: GRACE RUBY on 19 Jun 2016, 02:42 am
WOW
What a great post




Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jul 2016, 12:09 pm
WOW
What a great post

And its is so interesting that so many posts here turn almost philosophical, religious and poetic,
music is about beauty, it reminds us of the mystical, and the mystical in us, I do see many audiophiles hurt this endeavor tho, many of these folks want very different things and yet use the same words to describe what "Good Is",  for sun light on this, I think it is fare to say some folks who swear they love music really don't love anything except the pursuit of something they have put such high pedistalized hopes on,,, it is never reached.

Nothing sadder then never loving what you own, and, I think it is only important that something hypnotizes us in a healing way, even if the picture is not perfect.

I am most unhappy when folks ask me to go in search of perfection with them in a way that is a mean, cruel and unforgiving route to anywhere, which is also at the whole expense of never arriving.

I want to live beauty now, not in some over idealized future where the perfect speaker many never even be made.

Speaking of beauty....  What a beautifully written explanation of the bottom line.  Great Audio is about Beauty!  Thanks.
-Tommy O
Title: Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
Post by: GRACE RUBY on 9 Aug 2016, 07:55 pm
Sorry

this post moved to

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144805.new#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144805.new#new)

nice picture tho.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148212)