The fate of Hi-End Audio?

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rollo

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #1 on: 6 Apr 2020, 03:44 pm »
  What I learned from that article is do not read Kens work any longer.  Do we need high paid writers ?


charles

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #2 on: 6 Apr 2020, 03:50 pm »
I don’t know but I think he does make a few good points.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #3 on: 6 Apr 2020, 04:17 pm »
Looking at what Danny Richie has said lately, business is booming, and his orders are way up, cuz people are stuck at home, have time, & want something to do to keep them occupied.
Only issue is, he's running low on certain components, and until those get restocked, some models aren't available.

Tbh, I imagine sales are up for the time being just due to people wanting a way to better enjoy their isolation. Many in my neighborhood are currently undergoing home/kitchen/etc. renovations for the same reasons.

Of course, this trend wont last forever, and isn't an option for everyone, but it seems a bit hyperbolic to call it the potential end of hi-fi.. lol

Don_S

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #4 on: 6 Apr 2020, 04:29 pm »
May I remind everyone that whatever country you live in, it is your patriotic duty to spend money.  :lol:

CanadianMaestro

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #5 on: 6 Apr 2020, 04:35 pm »
"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"

Right on.
I say prune the herd.

James Tanner

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #6 on: 6 Apr 2020, 05:24 pm »
Looking at what Danny Richie has said lately, business is booming, and his orders are way up, cuz people are stuck at home, have time, & want something to do to keep them occupied.
Only issue is, he's running low on certain components, and until those get restocked, some models aren't available.

Tbh, I imagine sales are up for the time being just due to people wanting a way to better enjoy their isolation. Many in my neighborhood are currently undergoing home/kitchen/etc. renovations for the same reasons.

Of course, this trend wont last forever, and isn't an option for everyone, but it seems a bit hyperbolic to call it the potential end of hi-fi.. lol

Hi

Danny must be very fortunate then as everyone I speak with are down at least 50% from normal.

james

Don_S

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #7 on: 6 Apr 2020, 05:36 pm »
I think we will see a large difference based upon the manufacturer's sales model. Those depending on dealer orders from closed stores are going to be waiting for stores to open again. Manufacturers with primarily or only on-line sales might even experience a gain in business. 

veloceleste

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #8 on: 6 Apr 2020, 06:05 pm »
The high end and the low end will survive. The guys in the middle will suffer the brunt.

gberger

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #9 on: 6 Apr 2020, 06:29 pm »
Being handicapped for several years, I've had to buy Audio equipment, via on-line stores, based on reviews in the various hifi publications and on the advice of friends.
For these years, all of my electronics have been made by Bryston, purchased via Audio Advisor.
And, I'm a VERY happy camper.

I've been in this hobby since the end of WWII, (building my own during the mono phase) and I have to agree the reputable - - and long-lasting - -  manufacturers are really few and far between.

George

rollo

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #10 on: 6 Apr 2020, 06:30 pm »
  My business is not booming however still making sales. The only thing we in the Industry can do is lower our profit margin for a short time. Yes it is tough but the tough get going.
 

charles

rollo

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #11 on: 6 Apr 2020, 06:37 pm »
"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"

Right on.
I say prune the herd.

 The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock"  was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.

charles

charmerci

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #12 on: 6 Apr 2020, 06:51 pm »
"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"

In a world with 7.4 billion people - with probably a market of a billion people world wide? That's actually not very much at all.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #13 on: 6 Apr 2020, 07:02 pm »
In a world with 7.4 billion people - with probably a market of a billion people world wide? That's actually not very much at all.

what a crock.
7+ billion, how many do you think care or can afford audio? Think 3rd world.
edit: so you think there are 1 billion who care/can afford audio gear?  :lol:

charmerci

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #14 on: 6 Apr 2020, 08:01 pm »
what a crock.
7+ billion, how many do you think care or can afford audio? Think 3rd world.
edit: so you think there are 1 billion who care/can afford audio gear?  :lol:
Western Europe, US, Japan but you forget China is growing - a billion there. You don't know that SE Asia and India (well, they're most likely going to be hit hard by covid) had a huge growing middle class. The last couple of years, I saw tables full of SE Asians sitting at the $5/10 minimum poker tables in Vegas.

 If you have a million dollars and you spent 20K per day, it's gone in 50 days - less than 2 months. If you have 500 million, it'll take you 69 YEARS to spend!

CanadianMaestro

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #15 on: 6 Apr 2020, 10:20 pm »
^ but how much of that will be on quality audio? Survival of the industry depends a lot on it.

I'm for culling the herd -- too many mfrs peddling basically the same types of gear, at widely varying prices. For the same reason why many use separate power lines for their systems: isolation from noise. With so many mfrs, there's too much background noise in hi-end sales pitching -- makes it very difficult for people (newbies and veterans) to discern the really good gear from the crap. Sure, audition...but there are only so many dealerships and so many hrs in a day.

gberger

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #16 on: 6 Apr 2020, 10:35 pm »
Gotta' agree with Maestro.
I spend several hours each week reading the reviews in various hifi magazines, and calling up the respective web pages for the equipment being reviewed. It's my relief from permanent lockdown.
Having done this for some time, IMO, there are more lower-end "high fidelity" amps, preamps, cd players, cables, turntables, cartridges, streamers,DACs,  etc., than anyone could reasonably peruse while building a decent two-way channel system. 
Just my two cents.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #17 on: 6 Apr 2020, 10:48 pm »
The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock"  was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.

charles

Not always. Some of the Herd keeps spinning new tales, trying to reinvent the wheel, like power cords (won't go there  :roll:) etc. They know there are gullible masses in the market. And if cheaper but better takes sales away from the top end guys, more power to them imho. You shouldn't need to spend $$$$ to get excellent SQ at home.

cheers

dB Cooper

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #18 on: 7 Apr 2020, 01:17 am »
Ohh boy, this got me started. Apologies to those who have heard my rant before.

Corona virus in and of itself will not kill high-end. Since there is essentially no retail infrastructure for high-end audio anymore, most of the industry has moved to a direct sales and or online business model anyway. In fact, several members here have reported buying components during the crisis and are now enjoying them with their newfound time.

Part of the problem with high-end is that there is no entry-level. And what there is is frequently derided as 'mid-fi' by (some of) those who are more well-heeled. A couple of years ago, I compiled a list of exhibitors at Capital Audiofest and tallied up the cost of the system on display. The mean price of the systems on display was $58,000, and that was after backing out the cost of the system in the room that had the big KEF $220,000 'shampoo bottle' speakers. I felt that the cost of that system skewed the results. I also didn't include the cost of the now obligatory boutique cabling. So add a few grand for that in most rooms. I haven't done this for several years, but just a glance at most of the show reports leads me to believe that the numbers have only gone up.

I have young friends who are in fact interested in audio. I have gotten them to come to the shows, but I only got one to come back. They seem to be turned off by the implication (or sometimes overt assertion) that they need to spend $1000 just to plug the system into the wall. This does not build an audience for high-end. Having decent, rationally priced equipment available does. If they want to buy the half inch thick faceplates and filligreed metalwork later in life, that's fine. My first Dynaco system cost me $330 in 1971 dollars (a little over $2K today). $100 or so later and I had FM. I got almost 10 years of enjoyable music out of it and really only replaced it because that's when Hafler came out on the market and I had the itch to build something again. Neither of those systems were what would be considered 'high-end' today, but they were nipping at the heels of it and they were both very satisfying systems to listen to and provided much enjoyment long-term.

There is practically no counterpart to that system today, and if there is, you won't find it at an audio show. There was one dealer who was promoting a $3000 system at one of the CAF shows but, on each of my several visits to the room, that system was not connected and playing.

So, in my opinion, two things are killing high-end audio. One is partially greed, because it probably takes nearly as much resources to design, build, and market a $5000 system as it does to do the same for a $50,000 system. And audio manufacturers being a business, most anybody in a business, given the choice between making a living selling $5000 dollar systems and making a killing selling $50,000 dollar systems, well, most people would rather expend 10% of the effort and resources to make the same money. Problem is, the market for high-end audio is small in number. And that brings me to my other point.

I mentioned that I knew some young people who are interested in audio. There aren't many though. When I was 15 I bought my first system for lawn mowing money. By the time I was in college, most my friends had systems. They were not 'high-end' systems but they were decent which takes me back to my original point. Now there's no entry level, and a pretty fair amount of- let's be honest- snobbery towards  equipment most people would consider 'affordable'. The people who are in that age group now have zero interest in spending close to six figures on a music system. They listen to music with synthesized drum tracks, synthesized instruments, autotuned vocals and the like. There is no original acoustic event to have '', so they are perfectly fine with 'smart speakers' (which, I'm like the high end audio market, is growing by leaps and bounds). Sad to say, I don't see this changing anytime soon.

'

2bigears

Re: The fate of Hi-End Audio?
« Reply #19 on: 7 Apr 2020, 02:18 am »
 :D everything has a start and end. Most worry just to stay afloat. Capitalism end game puts all the $$ in just a few hands.  The middle class has been eaten away bit by bit.   food and water is soon to be where it's at.  :D
      Our old politicians are closing the door on reality.  A good stereo seems a far off want now.