AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 6 Apr 2020, 03:32 pm
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https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/international/soundstage-uk/1394-will-covid-19-take-out-high-end-audio
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What I learned from that article is do not read Kens work any longer. Do we need high paid writers ?
charles
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I don’t know but I think he does make a few good points.
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Looking at what Danny Richie has said lately, business is booming, and his orders are way up, cuz people are stuck at home, have time, & want something to do to keep them occupied.
Only issue is, he's running low on certain components, and until those get restocked, some models aren't available.
Tbh, I imagine sales are up for the time being just due to people wanting a way to better enjoy their isolation. Many in my neighborhood are currently undergoing home/kitchen/etc. renovations for the same reasons.
Of course, this trend wont last forever, and isn't an option for everyone, but it seems a bit hyperbolic to call it the potential end of hi-fi.. lol
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May I remind everyone that whatever country you live in, it is your patriotic duty to spend money. :lol:
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"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"
Right on.
I say prune the herd.
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Looking at what Danny Richie has said lately, business is booming, and his orders are way up, cuz people are stuck at home, have time, & want something to do to keep them occupied.
Only issue is, he's running low on certain components, and until those get restocked, some models aren't available.
Tbh, I imagine sales are up for the time being just due to people wanting a way to better enjoy their isolation. Many in my neighborhood are currently undergoing home/kitchen/etc. renovations for the same reasons.
Of course, this trend wont last forever, and isn't an option for everyone, but it seems a bit hyperbolic to call it the potential end of hi-fi.. lol
Hi
Danny must be very fortunate then as everyone I speak with are down at least 50% from normal.
james
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I think we will see a large difference based upon the manufacturer's sales model. Those depending on dealer orders from closed stores are going to be waiting for stores to open again. Manufacturers with primarily or only on-line sales might even experience a gain in business.
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The high end and the low end will survive. The guys in the middle will suffer the brunt.
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Being handicapped for several years, I've had to buy Audio equipment, via on-line stores, based on reviews in the various hifi publications and on the advice of friends.
For these years, all of my electronics have been made by Bryston, purchased via Audio Advisor.
And, I'm a VERY happy camper.
I've been in this hobby since the end of WWII, (building my own during the mono phase) and I have to agree the reputable - - and long-lasting - - manufacturers are really few and far between.
George
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My business is not booming however still making sales. The only thing we in the Industry can do is lower our profit margin for a short time. Yes it is tough but the tough get going.
charles
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"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"
Right on.
I say prune the herd.
The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock" was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.
charles
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"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"
In a world with 7.4 billion people - with probably a market of a billion people world wide? That's actually not very much at all.
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In a world with 7.4 billion people - with probably a market of a billion people world wide? That's actually not very much at all.
what a crock.
7+ billion, how many do you think care or can afford audio? Think 3rd world.
edit: so you think there are 1 billion who care/can afford audio gear? :lol:
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what a crock.
7+ billion, how many do you think care or can afford audio? Think 3rd world.
edit: so you think there are 1 billion who care/can afford audio gear? :lol:
Western Europe, US, Japan but you forget China is growing - a billion there. You don't know that SE Asia and India (well, they're most likely going to be hit hard by covid) had a huge growing middle class. The last couple of years, I saw tables full of SE Asians sitting at the $5/10 minimum poker tables in Vegas.
If you have a million dollars and you spent 20K per day, it's gone in 50 days - less than 2 months. If you have 500 million, it'll take you 69 YEARS to spend!
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^ but how much of that will be on quality audio? Survival of the industry depends a lot on it.
I'm for culling the herd -- too many mfrs peddling basically the same types of gear, at widely varying prices. For the same reason why many use separate power lines for their systems: isolation from noise. With so many mfrs, there's too much background noise in hi-end sales pitching -- makes it very difficult for people (newbies and veterans) to discern the really good gear from the crap. Sure, audition...but there are only so many dealerships and so many hrs in a day.
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Gotta' agree with Maestro.
I spend several hours each week reading the reviews in various hifi magazines, and calling up the respective web pages for the equipment being reviewed. It's my relief from permanent lockdown.
Having done this for some time, IMO, there are more lower-end "high fidelity" amps, preamps, cd players, cables, turntables, cartridges, streamers,DACs, etc., than anyone could reasonably peruse while building a decent two-way channel system.
Just my two cents.
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The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock" was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.
charles
Not always. Some of the Herd keeps spinning new tales, trying to reinvent the wheel, like power cords (won't go there :roll:) etc. They know there are gullible masses in the market. And if cheaper but better takes sales away from the top end guys, more power to them imho. You shouldn't need to spend $$$$ to get excellent SQ at home.
cheers
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Ohh boy, this got me started. Apologies to those who have heard my rant before.
Corona virus in and of itself will not kill high-end. Since there is essentially no retail infrastructure for high-end audio anymore, most of the industry has moved to a direct sales and or online business model anyway. In fact, several members here have reported buying components during the crisis and are now enjoying them with their newfound time.
Part of the problem with high-end is that there is no entry-level. And what there is is frequently derided as 'mid-fi' by (some of) those who are more well-heeled. A couple of years ago, I compiled a list of exhibitors at Capital Audiofest and tallied up the cost of the system on display. The mean price of the systems on display was $58,000, and that was after backing out the cost of the system in the room that had the big KEF $220,000 'shampoo bottle' speakers. I felt that the cost of that system skewed the results. I also didn't include the cost of the now obligatory boutique cabling. So add a few grand for that in most rooms. I haven't done this for several years, but just a glance at most of the show reports leads me to believe that the numbers have only gone up.
I have young friends who are in fact interested in audio. I have gotten them to come to the shows, but I only got one to come back. They seem to be turned off by the implication (or sometimes overt assertion) that they need to spend $1000 just to plug the system into the wall. This does not build an audience for high-end. Having decent, rationally priced equipment available does. If they want to buy the half inch thick faceplates and filligreed metalwork later in life, that's fine. My first Dynaco system cost me $330 in 1971 dollars (a little over $2K today). $100 or so later and I had FM. I got almost 10 years of enjoyable music out of it and really only replaced it because that's when Hafler came out on the market and I had the itch to build something again. Neither of those systems were what would be considered 'high-end' today, but they were nipping at the heels of it and they were both very satisfying systems to listen to and provided much enjoyment long-term.
There is practically no counterpart to that system today, and if there is, you won't find it at an audio show. There was one dealer who was promoting a $3000 system at one of the CAF shows but, on each of my several visits to the room, that system was not connected and playing.
So, in my opinion, two things are killing high-end audio. One is partially greed, because it probably takes nearly as much resources to design, build, and market a $5000 system as it does to do the same for a $50,000 system. And audio manufacturers being a business, most anybody in a business, given the choice between making a living selling $5000 dollar systems and making a killing selling $50,000 dollar systems, well, most people would rather expend 10% of the effort and resources to make the same money. Problem is, the market for high-end audio is small in number. And that brings me to my other point.
I mentioned that I knew some young people who are interested in audio. There aren't many though. When I was 15 I bought my first system for lawn mowing money. By the time I was in college, most my friends had systems. They were not 'high-end' systems but they were decent which takes me back to my original point. Now there's no entry level, and a pretty fair amount of- let's be honest- snobbery towards equipment most people would consider 'affordable'. The people who are in that age group now have zero interest in spending close to six figures on a music system. They listen to music with synthesized drum tracks, synthesized instruments, autotuned vocals and the like. There is no original acoustic event to have '', so they are perfectly fine with 'smart speakers' (which, I'm like the high end audio market, is growing by leaps and bounds). Sad to say, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
'
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:D everything has a start and end. Most worry just to stay afloat. Capitalism end game puts all the $$ in just a few hands. The middle class has been eaten away bit by bit. food and water is soon to be where it's at. :D
Our old politicians are closing the door on reality. A good stereo seems a far off want now.
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I expect that when the current crisis winds down in a couple months or so that every tax in the country will double to pay down the massive deficit resulting from the shocking handouts PETson is claiming to spread around. Of course, that will be temporary, like income tax was for WWII...
As a result the middle class will cease to exist. Probably have an effect on high end sales.
Cheers,
Robert
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I mean there are some pretty affordable options out there, but you have to know where to look and who to talk to. many that have been in the arena for a long time, tend to have long since moved past the "affordable" category, and don't pay attention to what's new and what's changed. Cuz a lot of technology from the high end does trickle down, but the masses aren't always aware of options outside of major brands and marketing.
It's hard to recommend $100 products when you're used to $1000+ parts, and its discouraging when everyone recommends stuff thats far outside of your available budget. And the opposite is also true, we can dream about having a $100K system, but its a pipe dream for any aspiring audiophile, and gets discouraging pretty quickly, when all we get recommended $5000 components, when we've got $1000 budget for a whole system.
We gotta point beginners in the direction of people who are in similar positions, but maybe 1-2 steps ahead of the curve, who are still aware of what's new and growing in the entry space. Call it "mid-fi" or whatever, its often still better than 95% of consumer grade products from Wal-Mart, and that's something to be praised.
It's no different than pointing someone to a $200 pair of Sennheisers over a $300 pair of Beats. It might not have the "cool" factor, but the experience they will get is far more enjoyable.
It might not be perfect, but it shows them what's possible, even on a budget.
That's a direction & attitude the audio/Hi-Fi industry needs more of.
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^ but how much of that will be on quality audio? Survival of the industry depends a lot on it.
I'm for culling the herd -- too many mfrs peddling basically the same types of gear, at widely varying prices. For the same reason why many use separate power lines for their systems: isolation from noise. With so many mfrs, there's too much background noise in hi-end sales pitching -- makes it very difficult for people (newbies and veterans) to discern the really good gear from the crap. Sure, audition...but there are only so many dealerships and so many hrs in a day.
Go cull yourself. It's a free country.
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High End Audio is having enough struggles without this world economic killer. It takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to create a business. Those that cheer their failure obviously have not made that kind of sacrifice. Not only is this a sad day for audio, but for the world in general.
Rocket Ronny
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One thing is for certain -- the market will adjust itself. Right now, a lot of people have a lot of money to spend on a lot of audio options. That's why a lot of options exist. Someone is buying this stuff. When consumers have less money to spend on high end audio, prices will decrease. Likewise, when the demand decreases, the options will likewise decrease. Your boutique manufacturers will go out of business. With regard to COVID-19, small businesses, in general, will get hit hard. And in high end audio, that's the two guys in a garage cranking out awesome gear.
Nevertheless, high end audio isn't going anywhere for the next 20 years as long as we're around. Once the young people get into their late fifties, then high end audio will diminish.
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. Right now, a lot of people have a lot of money to spend on a lot of audio options.
Well, even though I had moved to a much larger than usual cash position in mid Jan. I certainly should have moved a lot more... so I'm one of those that don't have near as much to blow on audio as I had two months ago. :cry: Bad time to own oil, Ford, or NY real estate. :bawl:
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I believe as more here that have to go cheap, you might even have better sound. :thumb:
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The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock" was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.
charles
I have attended CAF every year since it started, and one thing I have noticed is that vendors come and go (and just attending, but in existence).
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Go cull yourself. It's a free country.
Do it to yourself first. Yeah, free country, I support that.
Not stupidity.
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Ohh boy, this got me started. Apologies to those who have heard my rant before.
Corona virus in and of itself will not kill high-end. Since there is essentially no retail infrastructure for high-end audio anymore, most of the industry has moved to a direct sales and or online business model anyway. In fact, several members here have reported buying components during the crisis and are now enjoying them with their newfound time.
Part of the problem with high-end is that there is no entry-level. And what there is is frequently derided as 'mid-fi' by (some of) those who are more well-heeled. A couple of years ago, I compiled a list of exhibitors at Capital Audiofest and tallied up the cost of the system on display. The mean price of the systems on display was $58,000, and that was after backing out the cost of the system in the room that had the big KEF $220,000 'shampoo bottle' speakers. I felt that the cost of that system skewed the results. I also didn't include the cost of the now obligatory boutique cabling. So add a few grand for that in most rooms. I haven't done this for several years, but just a glance at most of the show reports leads me to believe that the numbers have only gone up.
I have young friends who are in fact interested in audio. I have gotten them to come to the shows, but I only got one to come back. They seem to be turned off by the implication (or sometimes overt assertion) that they need to spend $1000 just to plug the system into the wall. This does not build an audience for high-end. Having decent, rationally priced equipment available does. If they want to buy the half inch thick faceplates and filligreed metalwork later in life, that's fine. My first Dynaco system cost me $330 in 1971 dollars (a little over $2K today). $100 or so later and I had FM. I got almost 10 years of enjoyable music out of it and really only replaced it because that's when Hafler came out on the market and I had the itch to build something again. Neither of those systems were what would be considered 'high-end' today, but they were nipping at the heels of it and they were both very satisfying systems to listen to and provided much enjoyment long-term.
There is practically no counterpart to that system today, and if there is, you won't find it at an audio show. There was one dealer who was promoting a $3000 system at one of the CAF shows but, on each of my several visits to the room, that system was not connected and playing.
So, in my opinion, two things are killing high-end audio. One is partially greed, because it probably takes nearly as much resources to design, build, and market a $5000 system as it does to do the same for a $50,000 system. And audio manufacturers being a business, most anybody in a business, given the choice between making a living selling $5000 dollar systems and making a killing selling $50,000 dollar systems, well, most people would rather expend 10% of the effort and resources to make the same money. Problem is, the market for high-end audio is small in number. And that brings me to my other point.
I mentioned that I knew some young people who are interested in audio. There aren't many though. When I was 15 I bought my first system for lawn mowing money. By the time I was in college, most my friends had systems. They were not 'high-end' systems but they were decent which takes me back to my original point. Now there's no entry level, and a pretty fair amount of- let's be honest- snobbery towards equipment most people would consider 'affordable'. The people who are in that age group now have zero interest in spending close to six figures on a music system. They listen to music with synthesized drum tracks, synthesized instruments, autotuned vocals and the like. There is no original acoustic event to have '', so they are perfectly fine with 'smart speakers' (which, I'm like the high end audio market, is growing by leaps and bounds). Sad to say, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
'
"Hi-end" is a volatile term. So is entry level. imho, there is at least some sanity to quality, entry-level audio. Companies like Schiit and Audioquest (e.g. Dragonfly) are examples.
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You shouldn't need to spend $$$$ to get excellent SQ at home.
And nobody should ever need to. Neurochrome's amplifiers or any amp based on Purifi's Eval1 kit will essentially give you the highest level of fidelity money can buy. If you want a super-cool chassis and you have the money to purchase a Dan D'Agostino, go ahead, but it won't be better. If you want a certain type of distortion, pay what you want to get it. If you want a very expensive and very much energy-wasting means to get the same quality of the examples I made, get a SoTA tube amp. Speakers are a similar thing (I would go for horn loaded coaxial compression drivers + woofer, there are DIY projects). For DACs there are great products like the ones from Topping. Balanced interconnects? Sommer Cable Epilogue. Speaker cable? Kimber (only the geometry counts, not the fancy conductor...) – or any sufficiently thick shootgun type cable, possibly with the two conductors spaced apart (Choseal on AliExpress).
You could get a SOtA system for around 5K USD.
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That depends on what one calls SOTA. For many, 5K is entry level and a far cry from SOTA.
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That depends on what one calls SOTA. For many, 5K is entry level and a far cry from SOTA.
Agreed.
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Rollo,
I agree. Whether or not he is high paid, I do not respect or like Kesslers opinions.
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Since the author is British, I’ll reply in British...
Bollocks.
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He's nothing more than another neo-malthusian, like Ehrlich and many others.
"It is an evident truth that, whatever may be the rate of increase in the means of subsistence, the increase in population must be limited by it, at least after the food has been divided into the smallest shares that will support life. All the children born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to this level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the deaths of grown persons. ... To act consistently, therefore, we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavouring to impede, the operation of nature in producing this mortality, and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use.
Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marshy and unwholesome situations. But above all, we should reprobate specific remedies for ravaging diseases: and those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have thought they were doing a service to mankind by projecting schemes for the total extirpation of particular disorders. If by these and similar means the annual mortality were increased ... we might probably every one of us marry at the age of puberty and yet few be absolutely starved."
-Thomas Malthus (Essay on the Principle of Population)
And yet the population has continued to grow quite well since the 1700's... hmm, there might be more to the story than simple geometric vs. arithmetic growth curves, don'tcha think?
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The US and the world still has plenty of money, everyone has just pulled back spending for a while. Owning a small business like I do is an extremely risky way to make a living, most don't make it even in the best of times. The 2008 recession hit the building industry very hard, inquires for custom doors (another luxury item like audio) went from 3 or 4 a week to 1 every 3 or 4 months, high end houses were not being built even though all my clients still had plenty of money but they collectively decided not to spend it, just like now, it's an emotional decision.
2008 was also a turning point in demographics. I started my business in 1981, interest rates were 15% (anyone remember that?) but business was still booming. I was 33 years old and all my customers were at least 20 years older than me, they were in their prime earning years and had plenty of disposable income. Over 39 years my customer's age and mine got closer until I am now older than many of my clients. My first clients are now collecting social security and living in their final house (or assisted living), listening to their final stereo and certainly not buying new high end anything like they used to.
In the last 12 years boomers incomes took a hit just as they were reaching their prime earning years but the last 3 or 4 years have been pretty good. The kids took an even bigger hit as we transition to a service and gig economy. My brother's 38 year old daughter just moved out, he thought that would never happen.
Everything will bounce back quickly but it won't be like it was, but then again maybe it will. I had to decline 3 custom jobs this week because I'm on a sabbatical after selling my shop to a student housing developer. I'm also doing my best to support the audio industry by buying lots of stuff.
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OK, against my better judgement I have to say something.... Be careful what you wish for.
Yes there are way too many small as well as large companies making the same mediocre products. Well, that is just the nature of our world, not just "high-end" audio. Been to a supermarket or department store lately? Many if not most of the best products in high-end audio are made by small companies of under 20 employees and some much smaller than that. These companies are getting hit hard and some of the ones who may not make it or may just decide they have had enough will be those who make exceptional gear at relatively reasonable prices. The larger companies who survive will do so because they have higher margins etc., think about what that means to the consumer. The small company making exceptional gear at fair prices (remember just because you can't afford it does not mean it isn't fair) gets hit and goes away, the big companies selling overpriced mediocre gear ride it out and end up being the only choices left.
Be careful what you wish for.
btw as an aside, there is a LOT more to developing, producing and marketing a product than most people understand. Pretty much every owner of a small company in audio whom I know has put their heart and soul into their work and most of them could make more money in other fields which they are trained in.
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Very well explained Daedalus Audio, i agree with you 100%
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Yes there are way too many small as well as large companies making the same mediocre products.
If you build it, they will come. Or at least they use to B4 C-19.
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Two Schmucks in a garage with soldering irons started Apple Inc.
Which reminds me...
10 years ago, we HAD Steve Jobs, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope. Many of us now have no Jobs, no Cash, and no Hope. I'm praying that G-d looks after Kevin Bacon.
It is an interesting article, but I don't find it to be the best of his writing... its more musing, and I'm not sure I agree with all the content. But that is what good writing does, it stirs up discussion.
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"Ask yourselves this: in what galaxy do we need 200+ speaker companies, 300+ power amps, and 200+ turntables? In what other industry are Two Schmucks in a Garage with a Soldering Iron considered a “high end manufacturer”?"
Right on.
I say prune the herd.
Prune? You might as well close down AC and we can all just go to walmart for our gear. The problem is NOT the vendors or the equipment. Go to an audio show and you can see the problem, it is the aging customers are dying off and new ones are getting by with iphones, earbuds and receivers. With one exception of course:
https://thevinylfactory.com/news/uk-vinyl-sales-2019-growth-record-high/
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Every now and then, it's great to stir up the cauldron and generate some fumes....or fuming.
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Two Schmucks in a garage with soldering irons started Apple Inc.
Yeah, .....how often does that happen? In audio?
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Yeah, .....how often does that happen? In audio?
Lets see . Nelson Pass. Conrad & Johnson, Carey, Wytech, Loesch & Weisner and Audio Research. :popcorn:
charles
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Lets see . Nelson Pass. Conrad & Johnson, Carey, Wytech, Loesch & Weisner and Audio Research. :popcorn:
charles
and yet hi-end is still in deep schiit.
Audio ain't like desktops/mobile toys for the masses.
[I wouldn't put any of these folks in the same league as Jobs. SJ was a master at anticipating what the masses desired. These guys keep churning out the same over-priced electronics, many lateral moves, not substantive revolutionary products. Not anymore, anyways. Just my humble opinions.].
:popcorn:
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I wouldn't put any of these folks in the same league as Jobs. SJ was a master at anticipating what the masses desired. These guys keep churning out the same over-priced electronics
And i guess Jobs never churned out any over priced electronics?
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And i guess Jobs never churned out any over priced electronics?
compared to h-end audio gear!? You livin' on a diff planet?
For $1K I can get a laptop that does everything except cook meals. For work. Play. And whatever else. Mobile too.
What does a 5K power amp get me?
We're talkin' toyz for the well-off. Not WalMart.
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compared to h-end audio gear!? You livin' on a diff planet?
For $1K I can get a laptop that does everything except cook meals. For work. Play. And whatever else. Mobile too.
What is a £1500 mobile phone if it’s not an over priced toy for the rich? But maybe for you it’s value for money, for most people it’s high-end over priced toy. Huawei are doing better for a fraction of that price.
What planet are you on?
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Yeah, I watch movies and internet on my $160 laptops and check the internet/videos and take photos on my $45 smartphone.
I do give a shout out to people who did/do spend mega-bucks on these technologies when they first come out.
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I saw a meme on Facebook recently showing all the gear that today's cell phone replaces. For many of the youth, that is all they need. Those large video cameras, receiver, camera, speakers, CD player, cassette deck, turntable, and all the cables we hook up.
And they also play a lot of video games and can be used with headphones and can be placed in your shirt pocket. That is what my grandkids use.
I read that one system that was at RMAF last year costing over a million dollars. :o
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:D the simple Simon answer is : if good sound is your target, and you have a good room. Go at it if you have the $$$$ . You can buy some pretty good low budget gear now a days. And used is and always was the smartest route to go. The room is at least 1/2 your sound is it not ? :D :popcorn: this current 🌎ly situation 80% of peeps can't do a 750$ bump in the road. The new normal is coming. The numbers are dirty 30's
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Not to worry. There will always be some form of audio/audio-video that caters to the well to do. It's the nature of the marketplace.
Happily, many of us not so well heeled can take advantage of yesterday's cutting edge products at pedestrian pricing today.
Carry on.
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Not to worry. There will always be some form of audio/audio-video that caters to the well to do. It's the nature of the marketplace.
Yes. My problem is, when you go to an audio show, that is all you will see. As one exhibitor I won't name said, "Everybody here is trying to catch the same seven millionaires."
Happily, many of us not so well heeled can take advantage of yesterday's cutting edge products at pedestrian pricing today.
Taking advantage of someone else's 'upgrade fever' has always been the most effective way to get bang for the buck. Often, what they're upgrading to isn't really that much better than what they've already got. The real winner in that situation can be you.
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:D make more $$ on a Caddy than Malibu. I remember when VAC went form 5 grand to 25 grand ,, then 50 grand products. A 50,000.00 preamp or amp. Sayyyy what ! Who the hell can buy that shit. The used 5 or 6 grand stuff sounded really good. :D
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Whatever financial difficulties high-end companies are experiencing now, that's nothing compared to what awaits them in the next two years. All of the comments above deal with immediate problems, no one is talking about the declining economy. It is projected some 60 million jobs will be lost in Europe alone. Even if some "luxury" companies do survive, they're going to have serious problems convincing their customers to buy their products and consequently, prices will go down dramatically. That's a fact.
Cheers,
Antun
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Even if some "luxury" companies do survive, they're going to have serious problems convincing their customers to buy their products and consequently, prices will go down dramatically. That's a fact.
Cheers,
Antun
I am not sure i agree with you there, the people that have the money to buy this units are very rich people yes they may lose some of they net worth. They are only losing a percentage, hence they still have a lot of money so it makes no life changing difference to them.
Imagine you have £1M and lose say £300000, yes it’s loads of money to lose but not enough to change your life style but if you had £100 and you lose £30 that is a different matter.
Price of units will not go down as they don’t need to sell loads to make their money, i was at Munich High End Show last year where to showed the TachDas Air Force Zero at around £400000. Guess what all the 10 production units are now sold, so the money is out there.
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I am not sure i agree with you there, the people that have the money to buy this units are very rich people yes they may lose some of they net worth. They are only losing a percentage, hence they still have a lot of money so it makes no life changing difference to them.
Imagine you have £1M and lose say £300000, yes it’s loads of money to lose but not enough to change your life style but if you had £100 and you lose £30 that is a different matter.
Price of units will not go down as they don’t need to sell loads to make their money, i was at Munich High End Show last year where to showed the TachDas Air Force Zero at around £400000. Guess what all the 10 production units are now sold, so the money is out there.
Are you serious? Who would be in bigger trouble, you losing 300k or me losing a lunch? I'd be hungry for a day but you would not be able to pay your workers, their social and health benefits, your suppliers and marketing campaign. Before you could blink an eye, you'd be done and in debt. A hundred folks not being able to pay for a lunch at a restaurant is not a tragedy but a hundred employers losing their firms gives many reasons for concern.
Also, your 400k speaker example is based on false logic. In the economic sense, you cannot predict what one individual will buy or sell. Perhaps he'll buy a yacht or a speaker, or spend it on world peace. It is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and is buried deep in the "error margin" of any calculations that I know of. Manufacturing and selling a 400k speaker is not an industry, it is a garage operation and one that's likely going to be the first to close it's doors.
I'm sorry but I have to ask, do you even know anything about economy?
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You are getting it wrong, people with money to buy £400000 turntables have a lot more money than we think. You are not going to buy a £400000 turntable or a £300000 car if you are only a millionaire, you will only spend this kind of money if you have billions. So losing hundreds of thousands is not going to make a dent in their life style. But if you have less, losing lunch like you put it means you are nearer to being on the streets. A billionaire losing hundreds of thousands make no dent in their lives. It would be like you and I have £100’s and losing £1 or £2, we would not care about it.
I tell you something I work for the biggest private arts gallery in the world, I see loads of money floating around all the time so I know the downturn makes no big difference to them. Yes you may say art is an investment and high-end audio only loses you money, yes that is true but what I am saying is the money is there and these people live in a different world to what the rest of us live in.
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You are getting it wrong, people with money to buy £400000 turntables have a lot more money than we think. You are not going to buy a £400000 turntable or a £300000 car if you are only a millionaire, you will only spend this kind of money if you have billions. So losing hundreds of thousands is not going to make a dent in their life style. But if you have less, losing lunch like you put it means you are nearer to being on the streets. A billionaire losing hundreds of thousands make no dent in their lives. It would be like you and I have £100’s and losing £1 or £2, we would not care about it.
I tell you something I work for the biggest private arts gallery in the world, I see loads of money floating around all the time so I know the downturn makes no big difference to them. Yes you may say art is an investment and high-end audio only loses you money, yes that is true but what I am saying is the money is there and these people live in a different world to what the rest of us live in.
You don't have to quote your CV to me. I have heard enough from you to know you don't know a first thing about how global economy works. Here, ask Mr. Tanner whether he is concerned about Bryston as a company and his people. Bryston is a 'real' company and a 'universal' example companies of similar size can relate to, not a garage operator you continually keep referring to.
I will agree that wealthy people live in a different world altogether but deriving this discussion from that is a matter for children to debate at a tea party. It serves no useful purpose as it does not reflect anything in the 'real' world.
Nothing good will come out of this discussion so we might as well drop it. I didn't even think my post would warrant a reply from anyone, thinking it was general knowledge and frankly, common sense, hence writing it in plain English, but now I see I was wrong.
Cheers!
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Okay let’s agree to disagree, all we can do is wait and see how things pan-out.
Stay safe everyone and keep enjoying you music.
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All audio, no matter the ultimate price tag, is discretionary spending and is the first to be cut in tough economic times by all income classes. Large corporations use the stock market for funding, the Sony's, Marantz's of the audio world are a different model than proprietorships like Bryston, which I believe is what we're talking about here. For these manufacturers, at the low end you need to sell a lot of units, at the high end you sell through personal relationships, the vast middle ground sells to whatever some guy can talk his spouse into putting on the credit card, but success and survival is the same for all. Manufacture lean, lean, lean. Maintain strong cash reserves. Market continually, no matter what the economic conditions are. Companies that do this will survive.
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Economics lesson 101:
"When marginal cost equals marginal revenue, you're making money."
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Okay let’s agree to disagree, all we can do is wait and see how things pan-out.
Stay safe everyone and keep enjoying you music.
:thumb: You too. All in good fun and enjoy the musik -- at home or wherever.
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The hollowing out of the middle class in the Great Recession is what really kicked the ultra-high end cost bracket of audio products into gear. And the accelerated concentration of wealth in the last ten years instead of middle class wage growth is what has sustained that shift. I would expect the coming mega recession to simply accelerate that already strong trend. The mega cost no object products trend will accelerate at the expense of the sub $10k product price range. The sub $1k product market will also take a hit, but will begin to recover when the economy does. In the meantime, many firms of all sizes will go under if they can’t economize to ride out the storm. Many will shift upmarket from where they’re at.
But I’m not so pessimistic about the next generation of consumer interest. Maybe it’s because I’m an older millennial and I see a fair amount of interest in the millennial generation in quality audio. No, it’s not like when every young person needed a turntable and receiver at home. But it’s still a large and growing market. It’s just that they’re not yet ready to buy into the $multi-K per separates market. But if we had a more equitable wage distribution for middle class jobs, there would be a much stronger market for reasonably priced high end audio. The big question in my opinion is whether the economy we build on the backside of the looming massive recession (or depression?) will be more equitable, or will just provide retail and coffee shop barista minimum wage jobs catering to the wealthy. You can’t pay down student debt, pay rent, and invest in audio, all on minimum wages.
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All audio, no matter the ultimate price tag, is discretionary spending and is the first to be cut in tough economic times by all income classes. Large corporations use the stock market for funding, the Sony's, Marantz's of the audio world are a different model than proprietorships like Bryston, which I believe is what we're talking about here. For these manufacturers, at the low end you need to sell a lot of units, at the high end you sell through personal relationships, the vast middle ground sells to whatever some guy can talk his spouse into putting on the credit card, but success and survival is the same for all. Manufacture lean, lean, lean. Maintain strong cash reserves. Market continually, no matter what the economic conditions are. Companies that do this will survive.
An excellent, constructive post! Thanks!
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The hollowing out of the middle class in the Great Recession is what really kicked the ultra-high end cost bracket of audio products into gear. And the accelerated concentration of wealth in the last ten years instead of middle class wage growth is what has sustained that shift. I would expect the coming mega recession to simply accelerate that already strong trend. The mega cost no object products trend will accelerate at the expense of the sub $10k product price range. The sub $1k product market will also take a hit, but will begin to recover when the economy does. In the meantime, many forms of all sizes will go under if they can’t economize to ride out the storm. Many will shift upmarket from where they’re at.
But I’m not so pessimistic about the next generation of consumer interest. Maybe it’s because I’m an older millennial and I see a fair amount of interest in the millennial generation in quality audio. No, it’s not like when every young person needed a turntable and receiver at home. But it’s still a large and growing market. It’s just that they’re not yet ready to buy into the $multi-K per separates market. But if we had a more equitable wage distribution for middle class jobs, there would be a much stronger market for reasonably priced high end audio. The big question in my opinion is whether the economy we build on the backside of the looming massive recession (or depression?) will be more equitable, or will just provide retail and coffee shop barista minimum wage jobs catering to the wealthy. You can’t lay down student debt, pay rent, and invest in audio, all on minimum wages.
Yes, true. All that one can do is buy a pair of headphones - which doesn't make you any less passionate about music. The headphone market might be hit the least with this crisis.
I hope audio industry doesn't suffer the Japanese syndrome of the 1990. They never recovered from that.
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:thumb: You too. All in good fun and enjoy the musik -- at home or wherever.
Thanks I have been working from home since March 12th, I am loving it as my office is now my listening room. Catching up with records I have bought lately but not had a chance to listen to.
I am making the best of the situation. :thumb:
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The wealthy will continue to spend on audio, despite an economic downturn. Why? Because they can. Especially when they're bored to death due to sheltering in place. In fact, this is an opportune time to buy high end audio gear because you can grab great deals. If buying used, they'll snag deals from middle class folks who need the cash.
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The death of Hi-End audio has been predicted for a long, long time but somehow the numbers of companies producing excellent sounding equipment is always increasing.
At first it was home theater that was going to kill the stereo
Jan. 3, 1996
Lights in a Box by Steve Guttenberg
https://www.stereophile.com/features/68/index.html (https://www.stereophile.com/features/68/index.html)
"Steve Guttenberg has been a projectionist for 21 years, working in movie theaters and (from 1984 to 88) at WPIX-TV in New York City. He has 15 years' high-end retail experience at Sound by Singer, also in New York, and since 1988 has served as a producer for Chesky Records.
"The high-end community is a tiny, fragile island---albeit an influential one---in the vast consumer electronics/entertainment world. This island was left mostly undisturbed by the larger outside world until the early 1990s, when Home Theater became the new cause célèbre of the electronics biz. This market has grown so quickly that it may endanger music-only systems, which I believe are what the overwhelming majority of Stereophile readers enjoy on a regular (daily) basis."
Then in 2007 the number of audiophiles were declining
https://www.stereophile.com/content/are-numbers-audiophiles-increasing-or-decreasing-why (https://www.stereophile.com/content/are-numbers-audiophiles-increasing-or-decreasing-why)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207109&size=large)
And then (once again) in 2013 is was the convenience of portable music along with headphones
Regarding the death of the home stereo system by Stephen Mejias
https://www.stereophile.com/content/regarding-death-home-stereo-system (https://www.stereophile.com/content/regarding-death-home-stereo-system)
"In the last 15 minutes, about 25 people have sent me a link to this article (https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/tech/innovation/death-stereo-system/index.html), so now I'll share it with you. For better or worse, whether we're discussing velour suits or Compact Discs, any discussion regarding death is most likely premature. I call for a death to the discussion of death."
We are Zombies, We Will Never Die
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:D no jobs, cash or hope..... haha. Pretty good. Food and clean water will become what we need the most.
This could be a political thread so very easy. End stages of capitalism points out trickle up to a full on tsunami up of $$$$$.... common peeps have lost control of everything. Corporate governments and big Business got it all. ❤️❤️🌎❤️❤️ One very good thing about this is 🌎 Breaths a bit better. It's sad.
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And CD the death of LPs. A bit extreme no ?
charles
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Was it not that home theatre closed many of the B&M stores?
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Outside of the most likely upcoming economic downturn, my belief is that the hi-fi audio industry will more or less die with this generation (the last being in their 40's now) with the exception that hi-fi will be integrated into faster, smaller chips which will eventually bring hi-fi sound to masses much less inexpensively than now.
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Was it not that home theatre closed many of the B&M stores?
The economy is the biggest threat. No work no pay. Before the Corona business was VG. High rent, High prices another. Lifestyle IMHO had the biggest impact. We have seen the young go to simple portable music, then graduate to a better and better home system. The problem though are the years in between.
Paying College debt, saving for a House, getting married, having Children ALL affect our hobby. So hope for a strong economy and a long lasting good paying job.
Until the Virus we were on our way with a great economy and jobs. It will come back.
charles
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Was it not that home theatre closed many of the B&M stores?
One could easily argue it saved B&M stores. Many have told me if it weren’t for custom installation of home theater equipment, they’d be out of business. It’s easily the bread and butter of a lot of places.
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One could easily argue it saved B&M stores. Many have told me if it weren’t for custom installation of home theater equipment, they’d be out of business. It’s easily the bread and butter of a lot of places.
Spot on could not agree more.
charles
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B&M stores full of home theater are of no value to someone shopping for 2 channel high end audio.
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My local dealer has a separate "division" and staff to handle home theater installation. Apparently, it generates $$$ for them, but I don't know if it's more than 2-ch gear sales. I suspect on par.
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And CD the death of LPs. A bit extreme no ?
charles
Vinyl coming back.
Cassettes coming back.
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One could easily argue it saved B&M stores. Many have told me if it weren’t for custom installation of home theater equipment, they’d be out of business. It’s easily the bread and butter of a lot of places.
There are a lot less than back in the 80's. A lot of those stores never got into home theatre. Some could not afford to. The came along Best Buy, Circuit City, and a few other major electronic stores.
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Come on guys. The internet is what killed B&M - not home theater. Direct sales and shopping around to circumvent paying retail mark-up. When did eBay come out again? Audiogon?
But back then I was in college. And honestly had never been to an electronics retailer other than Best Buy and Circuit City. eBay, AudioAdvisor, and Audiogon were the beginnings of a much larger world for that younger me. If it weren't for them, I'm not sure I would have ever found a "high end" B&M retailer. Would have moved on to other hobbies, likely.
The internet giveth, and it taketh away.
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I think you need to distinguish between mass market and "Hi-End Audio". B&M chains like Best Buy do not (in general) sell "Hi-End Audio". There market positioning is what I would typify as "mid-fi". They are the ones that are most threatened by on-line sales and in fact have responded by cannibalizing their own B&M sales by offering on-line sales as an option. Their customers are not interested in "Hi-End Audio", they want decent sound quality at a reasonable cost and are willing to forgo the personal attention and level of knowledge experienced shopping in a "boutique" "Hi-End Audio" shop.
True "Hi-End Audio" audio requires personal listening and discussion with knowledgeable sales people in order to select a suitable suite of components to maximize sound quality within a certain budget constraint. Whereas mid-fi systems often tend to be off-the-shelf packages of products selected by the merchandiser, a "Hi-End Audio" system comprises individually hand-picked components to complement existing components in a customer's system or those tailored to a specific customer need. Although the internet facilitates researching and comparing components, ultimately the "Hi-End Audio" system is normally a personal choice of components made by the customer in consultation with knowledgeable B&M sales staff.
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Direct sales probably helped the hi-end. After B&M stores closed many customers had no choice but to believe all the purple prose praising new products. If your stereo sounded bad with the new item then it must be something upstream or downstream and you needed another upgrade. The new gear couldn't be the problem because all the reviews and ads said it was wonderful. Forums like AC really help buyers by adding a big dose of reality.
Going to B&M stereo stores was like a religious pilgrimage, the anticipation was ecstatic. I would re-read the reviews, memorize the specifications and model numbers, make sure I had my check book before entering the hallowed halls of electronics. Tucson had Wilson Audio and Jerry's Audio Video. Wilson had the best equipment along with the friendliest laid back salesmen, it was a great place to hang out. Even Wilson Audio had to transition to selling TV's and Hi-Fi VCR's leaving less space for the good stereo stuff, eventually they couldn't compete with Best Buy and closed.
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Even Wilson Audio had to transition to selling TV's and Hi-Fi VCR's leaving less space for the good stereo stuff, eventually they couldn't compete with Best Buy and closed.
I think what we've all overlooked is what I call the Walmart Effect. Up until the 90's, people in America (well, all around the world I guess) thought that they were going to get richer as they got older - that this was the land of opportunity. So having a nice stereo was just one thing to spend your money on that you would improve as you got older as your income went up. But then two things happened, people began to realize that many people, themselves included, were not going to go from lower to middle to upper class. Then with globalization (getting cheaper products from overseas) Walmart started advertising lower prices and so I noticed that the average person still wants an item to do its job well, reliably at a lower price. People in general still want everything but really don't want to pay for it. I know many people who will drive 200 miles to buy bulk at a Costco or Walmart. Who would have done that in the 50's > 80's??? Hence the disappearance of high end audio stores.
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coming back.
Cassettes coming back.
Yes, it'd be nice if you could actually buy a new high-quality cassette deck, not something that really doesn't flatter the format in any way.
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Yes, it'd be nice if you could actually buy a new high-quality cassette deck, not something that really doesn't flatter the format in any way.
I was just responding that both formats are come back, not the quality of it. Always been told to get with the times or suffer when it came to formats in another hobby.
There would be very few new cassettes I would consider given the quality of the art itself. Current Pop music just doesn't do it for me.
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I was just responding that both formats are come back, not the quality of it. Always been told to get with the times or suffer when it came to formats in another hobby.
There would be very few new cassettes I would consider given the quality of the art itself. Current Pop music just doesn't do it for me.
I agree. But the fact only certain genres of music are being released on tape contradicts the return of the format somewhat. It seems as though every time someone releases a new album on an old format someone will say it is coming back. If manufacturers saw potential in it, surely they would want a piece of the market for themselves and would come up with new machines to support the format. But as it is, the only 'proper' ones you can get thesedays are Teac/Tascam ones and they are somewhat uninspiring.
Cheers!
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Since I have been listening to my system so much more during the "stay at home" days, I would think that some people would consider upgrading their equipment to improve the sound they are getting. I know I am.
Oh, and I don't know about tape cassettes coming back, but I am lead to believe there is a resurgence in the reel-to-reel systems.
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I think there is more of a chance that R2R can come back as new machines are still being made, all be it at a high price. Cassette not so sure, because no real good machines are being made. From some of the reports I have come across, a lot of the people buying cassettes are buying them to have a physical media and a lot of them don’t even have players to play them on.
The only good cassette decks around are the old ones you can buy and have them serviced a brought up to spec.
For me cassettes never went away, I still have my Nakamichi tape deck and Walkman. I still use my Walkman everyday for my commute to and from work.
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I think there is more of a chance that R2R can come back as new machines are still being made, all be it at a high price. Cassette not so sure, because no real good machines are being made. From some of the reports I have come across, a lot of the people buying cassettes are buying them to have a physical media and a lot of them don’t even have players to play them on.
The only good cassette decks around are the old ones you can buy and have them serviced a brought up to spec.
For me cassettes never went away, I still have my Nakamichi tape deck and Walkman. I still use my Walkman everyday for my commute to and from work.
What new R2R machines would those be?
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What new R2R machines would those be?
http://www.ballfinger.de/tape-machines (http://www.ballfinger.de/tape-machines)
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What new R2R machines would those be?
https://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/reel_to_reel_hq_tape_decks.htm
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R2R for High Fidelity audio can be a challenging and time-consuming hobby. (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)
Results are dependent upon the quality of the tape stock, the accurate adjustments of both the record and playback heads, the quality of the transmission of the waveforms from input to the tape - - and the capability of the owner not only to replace and align the heads, but also to cut and splice tape.
If you think setting up a turntable, tone arm and aligning a cartridge are time-consuming, try to align replacement separate record and playback heads in a 10.5"reel R2R. It takes both special equipment and loads of patience.
If you record live music, or transfer LPs to the machine, you'll soon become adept at the "Cut and Splice" capability needed to use a splice block, new razor blades and splicing tape. Lotsa' fun!
I had two R2R tape decks, but had to give them up when the manufacturers quit making the playback heads. I was stuck with unopened 10.5 reels of Ampex stock, plus many reels of recorded classical music. $$$$ just sitting there.
Guess that what convinced me that the little CD s were relative bargains - - and the playback equipment no longer a hassle.
Just the Saturday morning thoughts of a now-contented CD listener.
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https://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/reel_to_reel_hq_tape_decks.htm
That's it? Just one machine? Hardly a 'come back' if you're going to have one machine at a ridiculous price.
By the way, UHA used to modify Tascam decks so as I suspected, it is a little more than a garage operation. That doesn't necessarily bother me. What does bother me is that it is precisely these types of reviewers that declared the format 'dead' at the dawn of digital in the early eighties. Now when you have to pay 20 times more to get a new analogue deck they're saying there's nothing like it in the world.
Smart folks bought one way back and kept it and can now roll on the floor laughing at the nitwits who pay this much for something that cost 20 times less when the format was relevant.
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R2R for High Fidelity audio can be a challenging and time-consuming hobby. (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)
Results are dependent upon the quality of the tape stock, the accurate adjustments of both the record and playback heads, the quality of the transmission of the waveforms from input to the tape - - and the capability of the owner not only to replace and align the heads, but also to cut and splice tape.
If you think setting up a turntable, tone arm and aligning a cartridge are time-consuming, try to align replacement separate record and playback heads in a 10.5"reel R2R. It takes both special equipment and loads of patience.
If you record live music, or transfer LPs to the machine, you'll soon become adept at the "Cut and Splice" capability needed to use a splice block, new razor blades and splicing tape. Lotsa' fun!
I had two R2R tape decks, but had to give them up when the manufacturers quit making the playback heads. I was stuck with unopened 10.5 reels of Ampex stock, plus many reels of recorded classical music. $$$$ just sitting there.
Guess that what convinced me that the little CD s were relative bargains - - and the playback equipment no longer a hassle.
Just the Saturday morning thoughts of a now-contented CD listener.
Agreed. I might add, what are you going to record on this tape? If it's to backup valuable vinyl then it might be OK but otherwise what is the point in recording from digital?
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That's it? Just one machine?
Smart folks bought one way back and kept it and can now roll on the floor laughing at the nitwits who pay this much for something that cost 20 times less when the format was relevant.
+1
SQ all goes back to the orig masters.
Format is a distraction.
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https://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/reel_to_reel_hq_tape_decks.htm
Unless people have been living under a rock, these guys have been going to audio shows for years. Every audio show they have after hours tape listening sessions.
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It is highly improbable these 'master tape' copes they are selling for hundreds of € are direct copies of the original tape. They're likely 4th or even later generation tapes. You can play a tape only so many times before it starts to degrade and it is unlikely they were able to 'borrow' B.B.King's original tape just to sell the copies. They are either 'copy of a copy of a copy' or --- tapes recorded from a digital source that was made using the original tape, or one of the earlier generation tapes. The point is, you don't know what it is that you're buying and you only have their 'good word' to base your decision on.
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That's it? Just one machine? Hardly a 'come back' if you're going to have one machine at a ridiculous price.
By the way, UHA used to modify Tascam decks so as I suspected, it is a little more than a garage operation. That doesn't necessarily bother me. What does bother me is that it is precisely these types of reviewers that declared the format 'dead' at the dawn of digital in the early eighties. Now when you have to pay 20 times more to get a new analogue deck they're saying there's nothing like it in the world.
My post was simply for info. No way would I spend that amount.. I do have a Sony TC-765 that has been fully serviced and has excellent SQ. Several sources for blank tape are out there.
I do enjoy using it and when recording from vinyl I get very good results. I understand why people have moved on but I wonder if they would go back to it if they could hear just how good tape can be when paired with more modern electronics.
Smart folks bought one way back and kept it and can now roll on the floor laughing at the nitwits who pay this much for something that cost 20 times less when the format was relevant.
I would agree with that. Then again look at what people spend crazy amounts of money for cables.
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Question, all these foolish $$ how do you keep the tape from deteriorating/oxidizing as in the past?
It's dead leave it alone.
I was into it at one time too, had some nice decks (X2000R, RS1520US, others) till the tape crapped out.
Probably 30 R2R's a lot of music all gone.
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My post was simply for info. No way would I spend that amount.. I do have a Sony TC-765 that has been fully serviced and has excellent SQ. Several sources for blank tape are out there.
I do enjoy using it and when recording from vinyl I get very good results. I understand why people have moved on but I wonder if they would go back to it if they could hear just how good tape can be when paired with more modern electronics.
I appeciate the info, thanks!
Well, they might like what they hear but would they be willing to spend the money? Possibiy if it cost less. Say you go out to find a good Teac X-2000R. It's an auto-reverse deck so it is simpler to use. But you need to get it serviced and this will cost you. If the heads are knackered, you'll need to have them relapped and this costs too. If one of the controls has broken off, you'll have to buy a spare and have it replaced. In the end, tape itself is expensive. So, even if people like the sound, it is not likely they will get into the format. It is no coincidence open reel was quickly overshadowed by the 'cartridge' system. Though I wouldn't mind using one personally, I doubt many people would.
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Question, all these foolish $$ how do you keep the tape from deteriorating/oxidizing as in the past?
It's dead leave it alone.
I was into it at one time too, had some nice decks (X2000R, RS1520US, others) till the tape crapped out.
Probably 30 R2R's a lot of music all gone.
I appreciate what you are saying. Modern tape is likely better. Would seem so since it is still being used.
As for it being dead, you may be correct but there is enough hardware and anything needed to allow one to dabble with it.
Repairs are expensive and probably the most difficult thing is to find someone that has the tools and equipment let alone the skills to do the repairs.
Let's not forget that music on new tape is available. Very expensive and unless you have a machine that can do 15ips you can't use it.
http://www.erhard-audio.com/ does offer some great upgrades as well for tape enthusiasts. Bypassing the internal preamp is a bit of a game changer.....
https://bottlehead.com/product-category/kits/reel-to-reel/ Is also into it.
Well, they might like what they hear but would they be willing to spend the money? Possibiy if it cost less.
Likely you are correct but when I see what a power cable can sell for I have to believe that many could afford to go with tape..
Not many will though because of all that goes into that end of the hobby. Takes some effort to record, maintain things. Digital is far easier but sometimes the effort is the draw..
Cheers!
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Not many will though because of all that goes into that end of the hobby. Takes some effort to record, maintain things. Digital is far easier but sometimes the effort is the draw..
Cheers!
What do you do with a tape you dubbed from an lp? I used to record albums on to cassette for the car, or give to friends, but I rarely played them on the stereo.
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I agree with you timind, I record music I like so much that I want to listen to on the move. I record purely so I can listen to them on my commute to and from work, at home I will dig out the vinyl and play that as I want the best possible experience at home.
My recording for commute are the next best thing to my home experience, I make my recording on Nakamichi CR-7 onto TDK MA-XG’s. On the move I use in rotations of a week at a time, Sony WM-D6C, Sony WM-DC2 and Sony WM-DD9. All with an external amp plugged into line-out on the D6C, DC2.
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What do you do with a tape you dubbed from an lp? I used to record albums on to cassette for the car, or give to friends, but I rarely played them on the stereo.
Hey Tim, I usually have tape running once or twice a week for evening listening sessions. I do it because the sound is pretty good and like most old mechanical gear it needs to be run to keep the lube from drying out. I tape lp's directly from my phono preamp. SQ is better this way. I do play back through my tube preamp. I have done playback directly to my amp using the tape machines volume control.
For music on the go I record from my pc to either micro SD or memory stick.