NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 6842 times.

John Chapman

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 825
    • http://www.bentaudio.com
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #20 on: 30 Nov 2003, 01:31 am »
Hello!

As I recall it was not really what I would call an 'incompatibility' that you heard - more that it just did not end up with the flavor you'd like in your system - please let me know if there were issues I should be aware of.

The pass labs is not a high input impedance either - although I think it is 20K or so which puts it a bit higher.

BTW - how did you find the levels in your system? Did you have the urge to turn it more than all the way up? The +6db gain will help for the odd the you want to crank it up but if unity gain was not near loud enough then the +6 mode would not likely really do either.

Many Thansk!

John

Marbles

NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #21 on: 30 Nov 2003, 01:40 am »
Quote from: John Chapman
Hello!

As I recall it was not really what I would call an 'incompatibility' that you heard - more that it just did not end up with the flavor you'd like in your system - please let me know if there were issues I should be aware of.

The pass labs is not a high input impedance either - although I think it is 20K or so which puts it a bit higher.

BTW - how did you find the levels in your system? Did you have the urge to turn it more than all the way up? The +6db gain will help for the odd the you wa ...



John, you are correct, not an incompatibility as would normally be described... the midrange seemed dull and lifeless...not at all what most others have heard with this dac.

The system played plenty loud for me, although I did have to turn the volume controll up higher than I've had to for any other component change.

I'm just trying to understand why this combo did not work for me.  

Thanks for your help.

tkp

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 304
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #22 on: 30 Nov 2003, 03:05 am »
Just a comment that it would be best to try the Bent in balanced mode with the Pass amp because pass amp is rated 22 Kohms for balance input but only 11 Kohms for single ended.  The Bent works fine right down to 10Kohms.  However, source with weak output (low current drive where the voltage rail would collapse pretty quick with tough load)  would definitely makes thing worse.

John Chapman

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 825
    • http://www.bentaudio.com
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #23 on: 30 Nov 2003, 01:09 pm »
Hello TKP!

Good to hear from you and I do hope all is well! We did run ballanced as the fellow usually runs a ballanced cable to the amp anyway.  The ACK has a really low output impedance so I don't think I'd relate Marbles experience to the 10K. When I tested the tx102 trannie here a while back on the AP I found that lowering the load impedance had very little effect on it - provided the source was a low output impedance.  A higehr 600 ohm load was also fine but only once the level was 3 or 4 stepss from the top (where the impedance ratio thing really starts to kick in).

My gut says it was just a 'system thang' that resulted in the weak midrange. I'd have to say that I did not hear any of that yesterday. A few female vocal discs (this fellow always has some great tunes to play!) sounded as good as I have heard that type of music - but defintiley to the clean and clear side of things - not a 'glowing' midband and maybe that is where the tube line stage was prefered by the mystery manufacturer (still curious who that was as I don't know of any manufacturers here with a 102!).  I will try and get the fellow whose system we listened  in to chime in with his impressions.


Thanks!

John

tkp

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 304
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #24 on: 30 Nov 2003, 02:58 pm »
John,

Things are going fairly good on my end.  I like the NOH preamp case and hopefully, I can get one to replace out my old one in the future.  I spent so much money on BPT products lately that my wife told me that I am not allow to spend any money on audio until 2005!!!  We will see :-).

I love the TX102.  So far I have not found any thing that can beat it completely yet.  The IRD LLC-P came close  but in the end I still pick the Bent to be the best preamp that I have owned to date.


Marble,

Did you try the Ack with the RM40? if this is the case then I think the RM40 needs to be re-tune to match the Ack/Bent combo.  From what John say, I cannot think of any reason why the combo woud not work well.  I am curious about the Ack as well and hopefully I can try it out some day.

Marbles

NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #25 on: 30 Nov 2003, 03:30 pm »
Tien,

I did try it with the 40's, but did not retune.

The reason I did not retune was the 40's work great the way they are set up for my Turntable, and they worked great for my previous dac.

What I am looking for is a dac I can "drop into" my system for the long term, and use at the same time I use my TT without having to adjust the speakers each time I do go between my TT and Dac.


I certainly could have increased the midrange panel pots from thier 12:15 position, and maybe that would have solved the problem, or at least reduced the problem, but I wouldn't want to live with that system long term.  To much adjusting each time I would go from LP to CD.

Neville Parakh

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
NOH and Ack!
« Reply #26 on: 10 Dec 2003, 10:14 pm »
I am the one who had the pleasure of having John Chapman bring a NOH (I believe with the silver transformer wiring) over to try out with the Ack!Dak in my system. Sorry, I got in late into the discussion - I've been swamped at work the last week or so.

John has done a superb job of describing how the two synergize. I just want to add a few small points.

First, both the NOH and the Ack!Dak are superb products. I've heard a lot of pre-amps over the last few years - some in my system and some in others, but have yet to hear a pre-amp with the level of clarity and purity I heard from the NOH (more on this later). Similiarly with the Ack!Dak - I've been auditioning a lot of digital front ends some well past the Can.$10K boundary and of all the digital front ends I've heard there are only a hand full that I'd be able to live with - the Ack!Dak is certainly one of them.

So, what are my impressions on how the NOH - Ack synergized. First, let me say that my Sonic Frontiers Line 1 pre-amp with Amperex NOS tubes is strongly on the warm, full bodied side - a noticable coloration that I have lived with and enjoyed for several years. So, when I first heard John's TAP and later his NOH, it was a real eye opener as to just how coloured my pre-amp really is.

My first impressions of the NOH - Ack!Dak was of immense clarity, dynamic range, soundscape and frequency extremes - the kind of which my SF Line 1 could not match (in the case of clarity, it didn't even come close). But, I also lost the full-bodied midrange that my tube pre-amp with my selection of NOS tubes was imparting. So, initially my impressions were of a leaner presentation in the midrange too - I think this is what Marbles was describing. HOWEVER, after a few hours of listening to the NOH - Ack combination and letting myself adjust to the sound, I found that I no longer felt that the midrange was lean - it was accurate to the recording. Recordings with Piano with body in them sounded full-bodied, recordings with Piano with a leaner mastering (yes, the do exist  :cry: ), sounded leaner.

As John mentions, I am partial to female vocals, so have quite a few CDs with female vocals. One of which I believed to have noticable hardness to the upper midrange that always prevented me enjoying it, when played through the NOH - Ack combination was absolutely stunning - there was absolutely no hardness to the voice - it was unfortunately an undesirable attribute being added by my SF Line 1. Finally hearing this recording in all its glory was one of those magical musical experiences we all crave.

We also played a number of fairly touch-and-go recordings and the NOH - Ack combination handled them extremely well. No, it didn't magically convert a bad mastering to a good one, but it did allow me to enjoy the music without constantly highlighting the faults - trust me when I say that this is no small feat - two very expensive digital front ends I heard made we want to run screaming from the room with my hands over my ears, on these recordings - they were that ruthless.

So, it all comes done to what your preferences are. If you want the warm, full bodied, midrange emphasis that a tubed pre-amp can give you, this is likely not the combination that you'll end up with.

Let me just finish off by saying that when I plugged my pre-amp back in after John had left, the warm, full-bodied, familiar sound was back, but a lot of the magic I experienced with John's NOH in my system left with him too.

John Chapman

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 825
    • http://www.bentaudio.com
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #27 on: 11 Dec 2003, 01:32 am »
Neville,

Thanks very much for the great description and thanks again for the chance to come over and try it out!

John

Al Garay

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 654
NOH preamp compatability with Ack industries dAck?
« Reply #28 on: 11 Dec 2003, 06:36 am »
Thanks Neville,

After reading Marbles comments, I have been concerned about my order for the Ack! DAC.

I have a TX102S that John says is identically internally to the NOH. I have had the same revelations about the TX102S, it reveals what is in the music. I have no craving for a 5.1, 6.1 or greater HT system. I'm glad with my 2.0 soon to be 2.1 music and HT system. And after auditioning several pre-amps, I'm convinced the BentAudio TX102 is a significant contributor.

Kudos to John for putting out a great product and backing it up with tremendous service.

Al

Neville Parakh

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Ack!Dak burn in.
« Reply #29 on: 12 Dec 2003, 05:01 pm »
Al,

It took a while for my Ack!Dak "setup" to really burn in. In my case, I had a new Ack!Dak, a new digital cable and was using the digital outputs on my Sony SCD-777ES for the first time, so it was probably a combination of all three that needed to burn in. When I plugged it initially, the sound was very clean, but lean. It took a while for the midrange to fill in (Chris mentioned this to me in an e-mail) and for it to really come on song.

Just picked up Joni Mitchell's "Tavelogue" - boy, oh boy does this sound great through the Ack!Dak.

Enjoy your TX102s and Ack!Dak.

All the best,
Neville