The Technics SL-1200 Mk. II....Bastardization

Wayner · « **Reply #40 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 09:31 pm »

John,

The rapping on the top of the deck is like driving on a water filled road, the tonearm starts to "hydroplane". I'm not sure if this is a good test. Did you not say that it started to feedback when you did this?

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #41 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 11:37 pm »

Good anology, Wayner

One can clearly hear a faint 'thump' when I tap hard on the surface the deck...with the volume up far higher than I'm likely to place it most days with a 4-5mv cartridge at the helm.

Maybe 'zero' isn't the goal...but many belt drivers (with detached motors, at least) are close to zero and this may be an audibly superior attribute they offer. I think the esteemable Frank van Alstine referred to direct drive decks as 'rumble decks' 25 years ago...perhaps he is right due to the unassailable fact that the motor is directly attached to the platter/spindle and, thus, cannot be physically separated from various sources of noises.

Or, it's all bunk

and I should just shut-up, enjoy and listen

John

Wayner · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 12:02 am »

I don't know if Frank has listened to the newest, latest greatest direct drive tables. I think he knows what I like and what my standards are. My roots are in the AR-XA table (I have 3), but I like to move into unknown territory in search of a higher fidelity playback. The Empire is fun 'cause it still works, though it's tweeked like a bastard. The VPI is top dog, but the current Technics SL-Q2 is the new star on the block. I can only put up 4 tables at a time and can only really connect 3 of them to the 3 systems in my studio. I did download the manual for the SL-1200 today. Damn, I think the VTA can be adjusted on the fly! I, of course, can't wait.

There probably are going to be at least 4 tables going up for sale (pm me if you have an interest in a MINT AR (2 are, the 3rd not so much) or a Harmon Kardon T25 (cheap), as I think the 4 in the studio will be the Empire, VPI, the Rega and the new Technics. That's the plan for now. The Sansui is gone.

Keep fiddling with the thing, John. Some of the feedback might be coming through the tonearm itself as the deck plate seems to very heavily damped.

W

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 12:29 am »

Wayner,

I have three tables now, only space to connect one at a time....and I might have another coming in. So I'm overloaded now - but, thanks.

Yes, VTA totally on the fly on the stock Technics arm....exceptionally slick gearing on it, too. But, my arm was damaged so I couldn't fiddle much with it to begin with.

The Origin Live tonearm board for the Rega (actually looks precisely like the Origin Live decks selling for many multiples of the 1200 price) is really slick. It's some kind of heavy metal...and is split between a top and bottom piece. The arm is actually attached to the bottom piece....which is slightly de-coupled from the top 'board' by several grommets/washers.

A damping trough for the tonearm would likely mute the 'feedback' issue further...I found it to be a huge advance on my junker JVC a while back when I fashioned the now infamous homebrew/garbage trough.

Very slick...and Origin Live gets glowing reviews...and seems to take great efforts on exacting elements of coupling, de-coupling and damping in various places on their armboards, turntables and tonearms, too. So perhaps some benefit is made from swapping out the stock Technics arm in place of the Rega...but some greater benefit is the actual armboard itself .

Beats me - until I change out the somewhat boring Ortofon X5-MC from the Rega 250 arm I'll not really know

richidoo · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 01:57 am »

TCG, looks like you left it out in the snow!

Cool damping idea.

richidoo · « **Reply #45 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 02:10 am »

I just found AT440MLa here for <$100

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #46 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 03:33 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 18 Dec 2007, 01:57 am

TCG, looks like you left it out in the snow!

Cool damping idea.

Rich, it was my junker table...now with the turntable fairies. The top layer of Plast-i-Clay was very helpful in squeezing that last ounce of performance from it.

Looked dang ugly, but it played pretty darn well

and taught me a lot for the $50 I paid for it.

John

Wayner · « **Reply #47 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 01:38 pm »

I forgot about LPGear, darn. The stupid thing is, I've bought from them before...should have looked.

W

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #48 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 18 Dec 2007, 01:38 pm

I forgot about LPGear, darn. The stupid thing is, I've bought from them before...should have looked.

W

LPGear charges high shipping rates like $10 shipping for so...if you got it from J&R with free shipping for $129.99 you're not as far off as first glance it would appear.

I order from LPGear from time to time because they are in nearby Nevada and I get the mdse that much quicker (yet don't pay CA sales tax) than ordering from the Midwest or East Coast, typically.

Okay - I swapped out the Ortofon X5-MC for a mint ADC TRX-1 (not one of my faves previously). The TRX series was the last series ADC made before leaving the cartridge business (they still exist in CT selling something non-audio related now). ADC guru Peter Pritchard had already left ADC for Sonus and this moving iron cartridge was made in Japan by real artisans...aluminum body, stylus assembly held by set screw, titanium line stylus. Loaded, it is.

All the same, it didn't sound swell in my JVC previously...time will tell if a deck and tonearm change will rectify it's standing in the cartridge universe

Wayner · « **Reply #49 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 11:58 pm »

NEW REPORT>>>>>>>>>>

I loaded 1-1/2 grams (3/4 grams per side) of plast-i-clay to the AT440MLa today as I was interested in the tonearm specifications for the Technics SL-Q2. I was under the recommended weight for a cartridge. I put the plast-i-clay on the sides of the cartridge. OH-MY-GOD....................................!!!!!!

I listened to Thomas Dolby "The Aliens Ate My Buick", side 2. Budapest by Blimp was absolute vinyl nirvana! If you are going to put the AT440MLa on your Technics, loader up with a little extra weight. I have NEVER heard such marvelous tracking ever!

ohenry · « **Reply #50 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 01:23 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 18 Dec 2007, 11:58 pm

NEW REPORT>>>>>>>>>>

I loaded 1-1/2 grams (3/4 grams per side) of plast-i-clay to the AT440MLa today as I was interested in the tonearm specifications for the Technics SL-Q2. I was under the recommended weight for a cartridge. I put the plast-i-clay on the sides of the cartridge. OH-MY-GOD....................................!!!!!!

I listened to Thomas Dolby "The Aliens Ate My Buick", side 2. Budapest by Blimp was absolute vinyl nirvana! If you are going to put the AT440MLa on your Technics, loader up with a little extra weight. I have NEVER heard such marvelous tracking ever!

Maybe it should grow a set of horns... long ones

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #51 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 07:37 am »

John.....I'm surprised PA hasn't been around since you got your Technics TT....

ohenry · « **Reply #52 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 04:07 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 21 Dec 2007, 07:37 am

John.....I'm surprised PA hasn't been around since you got your Technics TT....

Obviously, his work here is done... grasshopper.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #53 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 04:13 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 21 Dec 2007, 07:37 am

John.....I'm surprised PA hasn't been around since you got your Technics TT....

Yeah, psychicanimal flew the AC coop I guess....Last Active: October 20, 2007, 04:01:59 pm

I have checked for him online a couple times in the past few weeks as I fully expected him to chime in. He's most active over at Audiogon I know, but I haven't checked there to see if he's about.

He called me from time to time, as well, that's been several months now since hearing from him. I hope he's well/okay...he had foot, arm or leg surgery (can't remember why offhand) and was in a lot of pain a few months ago I know.

PA - you are needed - your children have now grown up

John

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #54 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 06:15 pm »

This sucker sounds better than ever today....5 days in.

Some combination of the Incognito tonearm and or ADC TRX-1 cartridge 'ripening', or the deck itself working it's way past it's long slumber (I found dust and bugs inside - so I suspect it was sitting for some time).

The first minute or two there were some awful sounds coming from the underside platter/motor area....when electronic components have been sitting for a while, will they do that?

Unlike any belt drive table I have ever used...this one doesn't sound 'brittle' during playback. I take that as uncertain speed control and stylus drag with belt drivers. I'm not slagging them entirely as I think great potential 'quietness' has it's place in vinyl-dom, but I don't find this deck any 'louder' than anything else I've tried (belt or DD) and it is definitely solid sounding.

Kudo's to Technics, Rega, The Moth/Incognito folks and Origin Live for making an armboard no different than those on their regularly well-reviewed decks they make.

It really does sound as much like CD as is likely possible, with that little extra resolution and hint at reality that only vinyl graces us with. Delightful

I have been of the opinion that a $500 CDP (made anytime in the past 5 years) will trounce a comparably priced turntable.....it's until you get pricier offerings in TT's do you exceed humble CDP's (I find the law of diminishing returns kicks in fast on pricier CDP's and DAC's or Computer Audio...they're all very good now, but they don't elevate much further in performance than bog standard stuff).

But, I think if you buy a Technics SL-1210 M5G (the one with the OFC wiring as standard), you're gonna' give that assumption a fair shot at whumpin' it

There is a lot of good hi-fi going on here for a pittance.

John

Wayner · « **Reply #55 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 10:36 pm »

Here are some pics of my new SL-1200MK2PK.

I need to put in more hours before I start bastardizing mine. It may concern some plast-i-clay and the tonearm.

Just not sure yet.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #56 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 05:52 am »

Quote from: ohenry on 21 Dec 2007, 04:07 pm

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 21 Dec 2007, 07:37 am
John.....I'm surprised PA hasn't been around since you got your Technics TT....

Obviously, his work here is done... grasshopper.

.....

I should drag out my old Technics TT....but its been buried for years...under other equipment boxes. Its not a 1200....its a SL-1350.

SET Man · « **Reply #57 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 06:28 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 22 Dec 2007, 05:52 am

I should drag out my old Technics TT....but its been buried for years...under other equipment boxes. Its not a 1200....its a SL-1350.

Hey!
You got turntable? Well, if you got some vinyl LPs than is about time you get them spinning again !

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #58 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 06:34 am »

SET Man....

Quote

You got turntable?

Of course Buddy...two TT's (other is a BSR)....and a cassette player/recorder....and an 8 track player/recorder.....just need a Victor now...

One day I'll set it up....just don't have the room here anymore...

SET Man · « **Reply #59 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 06:49 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 22 Dec 2007, 06:34 am

.....just need a Victor now...

Hey!

Maybe I could help you look for one.

Take care,
Buddy