KAB-modified SL-1210: a British enthusiast's view

dmckean · « **Reply #80 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 10:08 pm »

Hi Marco,

Thanks for all the help. I plan on placing my order Monday and skipping the record clamp since it won't work with the isoplatmat/herbie's combo anyway and getting the PSU instead. I've ordered the Zupreme headshell but I'll have to wait on the upgraded wiring until I have extra money again. I'm also going to wait until a custom counterweight until I settle on a cartridge and maybe upgrade my phono stage. I'm still undecided on the Sorbothane feet.

ixlr8 · « **Reply #81 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 10:46 pm »

Quote from: Marco1408 on 5 Oct 2007, 09:29 pm

Are you going for the KAB PSU, too, then?

Marco.

Will have to see if SWMBO will allow the stretch in budget, she is pushing for me getting a tractor first, she says she is trying to be practical. Hmmm it is $20K for the tractor, $1K the turntable and she is pushing for the tractor!!?? She says we don't need a TT now. What have I gotten myself into??

Marco1408 · « **Reply #82 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 10:51 pm »

Quote

Hi Marco,

Thanks for all the help. I plan on placing my order Monday and skipping the record clamp since it won't work with the isoplatmat/herbie's combo anyway and getting the PSU instead. I've ordered the Zupreme headshell but I'll have to wait on the upgraded wiring until I have extra money again. I'm also going to wait until a custom counterweight until I settle on a cartridge and maybe upgrade my phono stage. I'm still undecided on the Sorbothane feet.

No worries, Dave, you're welcome. Smart move going for the PSU. The best feet for the 1200/1210 are the Isonoes. If your funds can't stretch to those at the moment wait until you can afford it and stick with the stock feet. I wouldn't waste money on Sorbothane. Let me know when you get your T/T and what you think!

Marco.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #83 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 10:56 pm »

Quote

Will have to see if SWMBO will allow the stretch in budget, she is pushing for me getting a tractor first, she says she is trying to be practical. Hmmm it is $20K for the tractor, $1K the turntable and she is pushing for the tractor!!?? She says we don't need a TT now. What have I gotten myself into??

A tractor?? LOL. I could see the point if it were a new sofa or something

Anyway, Jim, if you can sort out getting the PSU it's a decision you will not regret - I promise you!

Tell her Santa's bringing her a tractor for Christmas

Marco.

ixlr8 · « **Reply #84 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 11:09 pm »

Quote from: Marco1408 on 5 Oct 2007, 10:56 pm

A tractor?? LOL. I could see the point if it were a new sofa or something

She would rather have a tractor than a new sofa!! She has lots of yard work she wants to do and that is more important to her than some silly piece of furniture, hence needing the tractor.

Quote from: Marco1408

Anyway, Jim, if you can sort out getting the PSU it's a decision you will not regret - I promise you!

Marco.

So, just what improvements does the KSB PSU make??

Jim

ixlr8 · « **Reply #85 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 11:16 pm »

Quote from: dmckean on 5 Oct 2007, 10:08 pm

Hi Marco,

Thanks for all the help. I plan on placing my order Monday and skipping the record clamp since it won't work with the isoplatmat/herbie's combo anyway and getting the PSU instead.

Hi, I thought I read somewhere in these forums that Kevin has made longer spindle shafts so the threaded clamp would work with the iso/herbies combo. Or were you talking about the weighted record clamp? Jim

Marco1408 · « **Reply #86 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 11:16 pm »

Jim,

The T/T runs quieter and the (already superb) speed stability is improved even further. All this has a knock-on effect on performance, with the table sounding more dynamic and rhythmic, as a result. Bass is also tighter, deeper and more tuneful. Plus it also means you can use a decent quality mains lead, as the PSU has an IEC socket to facilitate mains lead experimentation. The stock lead fitted to the table is ok but nothing great. All in all, a very worthwhile upgrade, I feel!

Marco.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #87 on:** 5 Oct 2007, 11:23 pm »

Quote

Hi, I thought I read somewhere in these forums that Kevin has made longer spindle shafts so the threaded clamp would work with the iso/herbies combo. Or were you talking about the weighted record clamp? Jim

Kevin does make longer spindles, but there's room for an Isoplatmat and a 3mm Herbie's, with the clamp, on the stock spindle. No need for a longer spindle unless you're going to use a thicker mat combination than the above. 200g vinyl discs may be a tight fit, though. But anything else should be ok.

Marco.

dmckean · « **Reply #88 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 03:44 am »

I didn't realize the record clamp will still fit with all those mats. Maybe I'll have to budget that in also.

That makes it $1400 from KAB + $50 headshell + 250 Denon 103R cartridge = $1700. Still cheaper than a Tecnodec or Scout.

lcrim · « **Reply #89 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 12:22 pm »

Actually the spindle is not any longer but the shaft inside the clamp is a bit longer. The spindles are machined to accept a shaft which screws into them. I even took some fotos and posted them to show how it works. The fotos are on page 4 here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=43641.msg392121#msg392121 I never found the clamp to do very much of anything for the sound.
I started the thread regarding the isoplatmat and I use it with the thick rubber Technics mat upside down. This all was at Kevin's suggestion who is a few town's away. I don't at all agree w/ Marco's conclusion that the rubber mats are in any way harmful to the sound. The adjustable headshell is also a waste of money in my view because you can adjust the stock headshell enough before tightening the locking ring to allow for any azimuth deviation. The inch of wire in the headshell really can't be heard. I also have the hydraulic damping and the Cardas tonearm rewire and I think those addons are essential. The isoplatmat is now an essential, at least it is to me. I also have the power supply and the strobe disabler as my 1200 MKII was Kevin's test mule. Its cool that Marco, in the UK is spreading the Technics 12XX gospel but there are differing opinions regarding some of the tweaks he is so passionate about. If cost is an issue, the most essential tweaks are the damping tray and tonearm rewire, and the isoplatmat, of course. A record cleaning machine w/ vacuum should come before all the rest of the stuff, which are very nice but not essential.
Good luck.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #90 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 12:29 pm »

Dave,

There's plenty of room for an Isoplatmat, 3mm Herbie's, and normal thickness vinyl, with the clamp in situ.

What phono stage are you going to be using with the Denon? I can't remember if you told me or not.

If you have MM as well as MC facility, and you have the available funds and want to do things really properly, add an MC step-up transformer to your budget, as the Denon works best with a step-up through an MM stage. It's a pretty low output design (0.25mv) so it needs a fair bit of gain, and the help of a good step-up transformer works wonders.

Try the Highphonic HP-T5S shown here (with the Denon DL-103 Pro):

http://www.swingaudio.com/WWShipping.htm

That works great with the 103R, too. Or if you fancy going for the 103 Pro, it's even better than the 103R! You will have to import from Japan, though.

Or either of these step-ups from Denon:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/product/Denon_AU-300LC_MC_Cartridge_Boosting_Trance.html?osCsid=a3a38b99f36aecec62b93456ce01d1d7

http://www.audiocubes2.com/product/Denon_AU-S1_Audiophile_MC_Step-up_Transformer.html?osCsid=a3a38b99f36aecec62b93456ce01d1d7

Obviously the AU-S1 is best, but it is pricey.

Using a step-up transformer will allow you to hear the 103 (whichever version you go for) at its absolute best. The 103 Pro or 103R used in conjunction with any of those step-ups forms as good a combination as any £1000 cartridge I've heard. I make no exaggeration. Use that on your 1210 and you'll have an absolute giant killer!

Marco.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #91 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 12:34 pm »

Hi Larry,

Nice to hear from you again

Quote

I don't at all agree w/ Marco's conclusion that the rubber mats are in any way harmful to the sound. The adjustable headshell is also a waste of money in my view because you can adjust the stock headshell enough before tightening the locking ring to allow for any azimuth deviation. The inch of wire in the headshell really can't be heard.

We'll have to agree to differ, I'm afraid. But different opinions are what places like this are all about

The rest of your post I'm in 100% agreement with, oh apart from the bit about the clamp. It does make a difference, but it's subtle, and the effects are system-dependent.

Marco.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #92 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 01:04 pm »

Larry/lcrim,

I don't know how much experimentation you've done with the top mat of your system....but rubber is so-so in providing good interface with the record. It is better than the Audioquest Sorbothane mat, about as worthwhile as cork I used....but the Herbie's $60 mat really proved to be most beneficial of all.

The Isoplatmat and a Herbie's is likely a very judicious pairing...and should better the rubber mat (especially as you now have removed a large amount of platter ringing with the Isoplatmat and want your top mat to primarily provide record interface, as it need not be another buffer for your formerly ringing platter)

Marco1408 · « **Reply #93 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 01:06 pm »

Totally agree, and that has also been my experience.

Marco.

dmckean · « **Reply #94 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 05:53 pm »

Hi Marco,

Thanks for the cartridge advice. I may need the step up transformer as the MC input on my Cambridge 640p only has 55 db of gain.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #95 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 06:13 pm »

Dave,

It's not just a gain issue. Transformers are a quieter way of amplifying the signal, and as reducing noise is crucial when you're dealing with such a tiny signal, a step-up device is just simply a more logical and elegant solution.

Marco.

lcrim · « **Reply #96 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 09:08 pm »

Since your phono section has 55 dB gain the Benz Micro Glider medium output or Ace medium output which are rated for .8 mV and would be a nice combination. I know that tvad4/Grant had a medium output Ace on his Technics and was pleased with it and then upgraded his preamp to a Supratek which had much higher gain than his previous Wright and bought a Zyx cartridge which was lower output. He may have the Ace for sale.

dmckean · « **Reply #97 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 10:02 pm »

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/mc_transformer.html

Would this transformer work with the Denon cartridge? The same guy that sells the isoplatmat here in North America sells that MC stepup for $295.

Also, if cost were no object (it's an object with me obviously), would it be worth it to import the 1200MK4 for the Titanium arm and give it all the KAB mods?

http://www.audiocubes2.com/category/Turntables/product/Technics_SL-1200MK4_Quartz_Synthesizer_D._D._Player.html

lcrim · « **Reply #98 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 11:33 pm »

I can't think of any advantage in buying from AudioCubes. If you buy the TT from KAB you get the benefit of an inspection by Kevin which is a high value not to be overlooked. The Denon DL-103 is much less expensive from William Thakker in Germany, who has a page on eBay. You are certainly free to buy from anyone you please but it makes no sense to spend more than you have to.

dmckean · « **Reply #99 on:** 6 Oct 2007, 11:42 pm »

That wasn't even my question. I was only asking about the lighter titanium arm.