[acadie]

Why power cord?

For me, they do have a positive impact on my system. That's my experience with cables my audio system over the past 12 yrs. I wish they did not but they do for me...

But you need to try/experience them. Some will inpact big time and some other will not.

I bought my first AC cord in 2000, an Harmonic Technology cable and used that cord on a Bryston 3B-ST. I was lucky that I had a dealer who let me tried various cable.

I now have a pair of Bryston 7B-SST² and I do use a LessLoss Signature AC cord on both. I have individual line to the panel box in my dedicated listening room.

I also use some LessLoss with the Bryston BDP-1 and BDA-1 and those are plugged in a Weizhi passive power supply with an Isotek Synchro cable.
 
Another AC cord that had a positive impact in my system was the Nordost Vishnu with a Sim Audio system (W5, P5 and Nova cd player). I was also using an Equi=Tech 1.5Q power unit.

[redbook]

 As I posted earlier I have Vishnu cords with the best results on the preamp. Perhaps the effect is due to me running the old ST4B and bp25. I'm thinking that there may be less (if anything ) to be gained with the squared models ( better power supplies). I do use the nordost Sheeva cord on the DVD player. It seems to produce an even cleaner picture. I beleive that's somehow due to noise cancellation.

[Diamond Dog]

So anyhoo...I was talking with my Bryston dealer the other day and the topic of power cords came up. He gathered up a few that he had in the shop and let me take them home for a while so I could compare them to my OE cords and to each other...What better way to figure out what if any difference aftermarket cords could make in my system, right ? Because there was only one of each, I was unable to try them on my 7B SST2's so I ended up using my preamp ( Manley Neo-Classic 300B ) as the test component. Click on my system under my avatar if you want all the grim details about the rest of the gear as I am too damned lazy to list it ...

The cables I got a chance to evaluate were: a) Shunyata Diamondback Venom, b) Concierto ( model unknown ) and c) Zion P1-S. Nothing too exotic here. The Manley's OE cable was roughly equivalent to the OE's on my Bryston gear. For test material, rather than going to some beautifully-recorded piece of audio porn, I used a Headstones CD from the 90's with OK SQ - the kind of thing lots of us might own lots of- mainly because it was what was in the CDP. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm a bad audiophile...

 What i found was that each of the power cords brought varying degrees of improvement to the sound, but improvement there was, and it was clearly audible. The Concierto cable was first up after an initial listening session with the OE PC and there were big improvements in terms of reduced grain in the highs, better definition between instruments and tightening of the bass along with increased weight. The stand-out difference was how Hugh Dillon's ( yes, TV viewers, that Hugh Dillon - we know him here for doing three things in no particular order: Headstones albums, Flashpoint episodes and heroin...)  ) vocals filled out and gained a fuller, more rounded presence - quite impressive. Cymbals which were a little annoying with the OE PC smoothed out and sounded a lot more natural with improved decay. Acoustic guitars regained their steel-string shimmer.Overall impression was that everything just sounded a lot more real.

The Shunyata cable was up next after a return to listening to the same songs with the OE cable for a fresh frame of reference. Of the three aftermarket PC's the Shunyata was the one which offered the least improvement and the closest resemblance to the OE PC. The was a small improvement in clarity overall but the contraction of the soundstage compared to the Concierto cable was really noticable. Everything got smaller sounding and a lot less open. I think that if this was the only aftermarket PC you've heard, it would not be surprising if you felt that there was no value in replacing your OE PC's. Big meh...

The Zion cable was the final contestant and it was much like the  Concierto PC but dialed down a notch - not quite as good but still much better than the OE cable ( or the Venom ).

So that's what I learned about aftermarket power cables. To my ears, on my system, there is a real and worthwhile improvement provided by some, less so by others.. Which one(s) am I keeping?  None, silly.

I'm budgeting for XLO's.   

D.D.   

[redbook]

  Well there you go. A good study in this topic. D.D. try the Vishnu if you can, works in my case.

[Diamond Dog]

  Well there you go. A good study in this topic. D.D. try the Vishnu if you can, works in my case.

Hi Redbook:  Not sure if there's a Nordost dealer here but I know they are popular with you and others here in the Circle. Definitely worth a listen and I will if I get the chance!

D.D.

[Stu Pitt]

Interesting results, DD.  I didn't try all the cables you tried, but I have a Diamondback Platinum on my B60 and a Venom on my Rega DAC.  My results were the opposite of your's - everything got bigger.  I initially had the Venom on my B60, and when the Diamondback went on 1/2 off sale, I picked it up to try it out.

Not sure if you used the Diamondback Platinum or the Venom.  I have the previous Venom, not the current Venom 3.

Not saying you're wrong by any means.  Just saying its all system and component dependant.  I have a friend who said his Venom 3 shrunk everything too.  He used it on a Rogue integrated amp.

Then again, I'm sure someone will come here and ask us if the system was volume matched, blind tested, etc., then say its all in our heads.  Yet, they've never tried one.  Gotta love 'em. 

[Diamond Dog]

Interesting results, DD.  I didn't try all the cables you tried, but I have a Diamondback Platinum on my B60 and a Venom on my Rega DAC.  My results were the opposite of your's - everything got bigger.  I initially had the Venom on my B60, and when the Diamondback went on 1/2 off sale, I picked it up to try it out.

Not sure if you used the Diamondback Platinum or the Venom.  I have the previous Venom, not the current Venom 3.

Not saying you're wrong by any means.  Just saying its all system and component dependant.  I have a friend who said his Venom 3 shrunk everything too.  He used it on a Rogue integrated amp.

Then again, I'm sure someone will come here and ask us if the system was volume matched, blind tested, etc., then say its all in our heads.  Yet, they've never tried one.  Gotta love 'em.

Hi :  The comment about the soundstage shrinking was meant in comparison to the other two aftermarket cords I was comparing - the Shunyata was still an improvement over the OE cord for sure, just not as big an improvement as the other two. I'm no expert on Shunyata product so I'm not sure as to what generation this cord might be - just going by what's stamped on it ( Diamondback Venom ). It's a maroon color with hospital ends if that means anything in terms of ID'ing it.

No doubt plenty of variables here and the pre was the only component in the system I've tried any of these cables with so far.  It was my first "toe in the water" in terms of aftermarket PC's and it was a pretty interesting one for me.

If it's all in my head, good to know there's at least something in there...

D.D.

[HooStat]

Then again, I'm sure someone will come here and ask us if the system was volume matched, blind tested, etc., then say its all in our heads.  Yet, they've never tried one.  Gotta love 'em.

I would actually be very interested if someone found different volume levels when changing power cords, particularly on a preamp.  That wouldn't actually make sense, unless something was wrong with the power supply, right?  (Assuming one was using the same source, amps, and volume settings, which is probably hard NOT to do.) 

[Stu Pitt]

They'd probably counter with it takes too much time to remove one and replace it with another, as aural memory is only a few seconds or some nonsense like that.  Trust me, they've got an answer for everything.  Kinda like Johova's Witnesses.   You can't argue with them, you can only shut the door in their face. 

[Elizabeth]

Nice to read even with a few rocky missteps this thread is still polite.

I would say I did not experience the volume increasing with a cord. However when i put the first pangea on my amp (and at that point i was a 'nonbeliever') I could hear a distinct increase in the Bass from the amp.
So 'almost' a gain in power, but just for the lows.. LOL.
And also, putting a Pangea on the Plasma TV gave me more saturated color. i actually had to turn the color down a little when adding the cord.

My take on all the controversy is if you WANT to try it, go ahead. If not, then no one cares either. It is YOUR system and YOUR ears. And you do not even have to admit one way or the other if you do or don't either use or can hear any difference anyway..

[Sasha]

My take on power cords.
Well designed components are less dependable on PCs.
Power supply design and execution are among the most important parts of any components, and those with massive reserves of clean and well regulated power will depend less on PC.
If you hear an improvement with different PCs (and the emphasis is on improvement, not just change), such as improved dynamics, tighter bass, reduced HF grain, larger soundstage, etc., it comes from component’s ability to draw current from the grid more efficiently, due to changes in power transmission parameters the PC introduced (I believe it usually boils down to low resistance PSU sees).
Kind of the same effect you notice when you power component from conditioner with really massive transformer for example, or when you replace power amp with more powerful one.
If you took the same two amplifiers with differently sized PSUs for example, the one with smaller PSU will be more dependent on PC.
PSU is one of reasons why 28B will always be better than 7B, which in turn will always be better than 4B.
All the above has to be taken in the context of quality components, lower end components may not show any difference due to their own heavily handed colorations.
I no longer waste my time and money on playing with PCs or any cables for that matter, since it is not possible to make any kind of an educated guess in regard to what change may be introduced, there are too many parameters at play, it all comes down to trial and error. Reading reviews is pointless, there is too much subjectivism.
I settled on well made reasonably priced cables engineered for specific application and seek improvements in areas where it makes sense, where proper assessments can be made and where benefits are much larger and predictable.

[adprom]

When people have run out of the obvious things to change and tinker with for their hobby, they will look for the lest obvious, more obscure things which resemble belief rather than science.

[vegasdave]

I have a question, what would make the most difference, an aftermarket cord or a 30 amp dedicated circuit?

[Sasha]

When people have run out of the obvious things to change and tinker with for their hobby, they will look for the lest obvious, more obscure things which resemble belief rather than science.

I agree with you to some point, however PC can make an audible difference, depending on its construction and the construction of the equipment it is used on. I agree it is silly to pursue “improvements” with cabling, but I would not go that far to say there are no differences, there are, but they are small, they do not necessarily represent an “improvement” and they are not only audible but measurable as well.
But take two well constructed PCs of similar design, and they will not change sonic signature of component they are used on.

[adprom]

they are not only audible but measurable as well.
But take two well constructed PCs of similar design, and they will not change sonic signature of component they are used on.

Except there are no measurements - certainly no differences on the output of the PSU which indicates a difference. At very very very best, one PC may be shielded better than another and not cause interference on some interconnects... So unbelievably unlikely, it isn't funny though. Even so, shielded power cables really aren't that expensive.

Power cables use a signal to transfer power - you are not looking to maintain the integrity of a signal with them. Hence they can't even be compared to traditional analogue interconnects - what you are getting out of them is completely different. A cleaner power supply can lower the noise floor and just generally provide more stable voltage rails however the cable itself, will not induce this sort of interference unless there is something wrong with it. The issues that appear tend to be around the likes of switchmode power supplies induce high levels of noise back into the power supply - not a cable.

[Sasha]

Except there are no measurements - certainly no differences on the output of the PSU which indicates a difference. At very very very best, one PC may be shielded better than another and not cause interference on some interconnects... So unbelievably unlikely, it isn't funny though. Even so, shielded power cables really aren't that expensive.

Power cables use a signal to transfer power - you are not looking to maintain the integrity of a signal with them. Hence they can't even be compared to traditional analogue interconnects - what you are getting out of them is completely different. A cleaner power supply can lower the noise floor and just generally provide more stable voltage rails however the cable itself, will not induce this sort of interference unless there is something wrong with it. The issues that appear tend to be around the likes of switchmode power supplies induce high levels of noise back into the power supply - not a cable.

There is more to it.
For example, cable construction and choice of material will influence inductive reactance which will in turn influence power transfer to PSU of the component.
However minute this is, inductive reactance is certainly measurable, would you not agree?

[adprom]

There is more to it.
For example, cable construction and choice of material will influence inductive reactance which will in turn influence power transfer to PSU of the component.
However minute this is, inductive reactance is certainly measurable, would you not agree?

Not to the point of having a meaningful effect on the voltage rails or the current handling ability of the PSU. Any decent PSU will mitigate any theoretical reactive component - nevermind the bryston ones.

[Sasha]

Not to the point of having a meaningful effect on the voltage rails or the current handling ability of the PSU. Any decent PSU will mitigate any theoretical reactive component - nevermind the bryston ones.

What you are saying is not contradictory to what I am saying, my experience on audibility was that components with well designed PSUs are less dependent on PCs.
The influence can be heard when comparing PCs that have ferrite material embedded in outer shield throughout its length, I do not know why they do it but it does have an audible impact in comparison to PCs with more common shielding, not good to say at least.

[Sasha]

I have a question, what would make the most difference, an aftermarket cord or a 30 amp dedicated circuit?

I do not see how any aftermarket power cord could have more profound and positive impact than 30 amp dedicated circuit.

[Devil Doc]

I do not see how any aftermarket power cord could have more profound and positive impact than 30 amp dedicated circuit.

Have to agree. Not only do I have a dedicated circuit, it's only six feet from my service. It's probably why I don't hear power cords and conditioners.

Doc