AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: Laundrew on 6 Jun 2010, 02:41 pm
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I am curious if anyone else has experienced their amplifier clipping at home or at an audition :scratch:
I have only experienced two cases of amplifier clipping and both occurred during auditions. The first one was a couple of years ago with a 14B driving Paradigm Signature S8 speakers playing Rush. The dealer mentioned that the amplifier was clipping - I asked how he knew this and he said that the red LEDs were on.
The second occurrence of clipping were a pair of 28Bs driving JBL 1400 Project Arrays and the music genre was Japanese Drums. I believe that these 28Bs were a pre-modified version as the sides of the faceplate was milled flat and not contoured like the top and bottom of the faceplate . Correct me if I am wrong James as I am not sure on this one, I noticed that the side contours matches the top and bottom contours of my post-modified 28B faceplate - thanks.
Granted in both cases, a huge amount of energy was definitely involved and I could not possibly imagine driving my equipment to these extremes. I am quite happy with the red LEDs on only during power-up.
Be well….
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Hi Laundrew,
Correct the latest 28B's have the same contour top/bottom/sides on the faceplate.
I do not think most people realize how much power it takes when a musical transient is required - drums being an excellent example. Our amplifiers monitor both the current and the voltage and are instantaneous in their response to a clipped waveform and the LED will go red if the transient power level is exceeded. If this happens on short term peaks it's a warning to turn things down and usually will not do any longterm damage. If it continues on every beat your going to do serious damage to your speakers.
Many amps are in fact clipping on these types of transients - you just don't know it because few amplifiers have clipping indicators.
james
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Thank you James :thumb:
Be well...
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I am curious if anyone else has experienced their amplifier clipping at home or at an audition :scratch:
Nope. Not the Bryston although it's just a 4B. But then I don't really like high volume. My audio dealer is amazed that I always audition stuff there at low volume for most of the time. He says it's unusual. Well what do I know. He also says that 70% of his customers are going for "warm" setups and their comments on his Bryston setup is "thin". They like a continuous, permanent rumble. Makes them feel that the setup is "powerful". Interesting.
Nap. :thumb:
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"....But then I don't really like high volume."
Nap. :thumb:
I agree, I very seldom listen to music at high power levels. I enjoy the detail, subtle nuances and the delicacy of my music without having to get into higher power settings to bring this out.
Be well...
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I've gotten amps to the edge of clipping, including an old 4BST driving Thiel 7.2s in a big room. Many moons ago, I've experienced in my own systems and others clipping playing Telarc's 1812 Overture on the cannon blasts. I haven't played the recording out in years.
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I've had my 3B ST clip hooked up to Paradigm Studio 100 v2 & either B&W DM601 S3 or Paradigm Studio 20 v3. I think that's a 4 ohm load if correct. I could not reach my desired volume level before clipping with this amp.
IIRC I had my 2B LP clip hooked to the center channel. I've had the 2B LP left channel shutdown from overheating.
I fried one of my Studio 20's woofer playing a dts recording at high volume and the amp wasn't clipping.
I could easily clip my 3B SST when hooked to graphic equalizer if I wasn't careful with the gain switch.
Since acquiring a 3B SST/2 with the above mentioned 4 ohm load on fronts, 3B SST on surround speaker and 3B ST on center. I have not seen any amp clip, and I have the volume between 95-100 db on a regular basis. 8)
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Laundrew, I have been playing my Paradigms at 1.30 - 2.00 on the BP 26
My 4b's have not Clipped, I guess the just love the heat !!!!
Robert
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My 4BSST has only clipped with the volume all the way up. Actually, I got the LEDs to go to a little bit of orange! This was playing Iron Maiden's 'The Number of the Beast' album at full volume! haha.
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Laundrew, I have been playing my Paradigms at 1.30 - 2.00 on the BP 26
My 4b's have not Clipped, I guess the just love the heat !!!!
Robert
:o :thumb:
Be well...
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Please pardon my ignorance, but what makes a speaker so hard to drive? Why can some speakers drive an amp to clip and others won't? I hope this makes sense. Long night last night. :duh:
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Please pardon my ignorance, but what makes a speaker so hard to drive? Why can some speakers drive an amp to clip and others won't? I hope this makes sense. Long night last night. :duh:
Impedance for one. Lower efficiency could also contribute
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I very much surprised myself a month or so ago when my right channel 7BSST2 (new transformer/capacitors) winked red at me. I love acoustic bass solos at higher volumes and was listenening to Diana Krall's arrangement of Tom Waits' song "Temptation" from her CD "The Girl In The Other Room". This song features renowned bassist Christian McBride and begins with a 30 second bass riff that spirals rapidly down ending in a smashing mid 20 Hz or so note. This just happens to be around the area my speakers take a dip to .8 ohms (nasty!). This, combined with the volume pot sitting at near 3:00 or so and the 7B cried uncle but only for an instant in one channel. I've really worked these 7's out over the year I've had them and that is the only time I've seen red. :oops:
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This just happens to be around the area my speakers take a dip to .8 ohms (nasty!).
Which speakers are those?
Nap.
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Which speakers are those?
Nap.
Infinity 9 Kappas.
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I can clip my 4B very easily with a Stereophile CD featuring a drum solo. Surprisingly i also used to clip a pair of 4B's running as mono blocks while watching the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" DVD.
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I can clip my 4B very easily with a Stereophile CD featuring a drum solo. Surprisingly i also used to clip a pair of 4B's running as mono blocks while watching the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" DVD.
Isn't it more likely to clip a stereo amp bridged in mono than when operating in its native mode? Doesn't the bridged amp see a lower impedence than one of the channels in stereo mode? I used to use a pair of stereo amps in bridged mode and had to convert them to stereo and biamp due to frequent 7 amp fuse explosions in the output stage. The problem didn't occur in the biamped configuration.
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Isn't it more likely to clip a stereo amp bridged in mono than when operating in its native mode? Doesn't the bridged amp see a lower impedence than one of the channels in stereo mode? I used to use a pair of stereo amps in bridged mode and had to convert them to stereo and biamp due to frequent 7 amp fuse explosions in the output stage. The problem didn't occur in the biamped configuration.
Correct - when you bridge a Stereo amp it 'sees' 1/2 the impedance it does in Stereo. So the current draw is greater and the lower impedance may cause current limiting. The voltage swing is much greater though so a lot will depend on the type of load.
james
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I very much surprised myself a month or so ago when my right channel 7BSST2 (new transformer/capacitors) winked red at me. I love acoustic bass solos at higher volumes and was listenening to Diana Krall's arrangement of Tom Waits' song "Temptation" from her CD "The Girl In The Other Room". This song features renowned bassist Christian McBride and begins with a 30 second bass riff that spirals rapidly down ending in a smashing mid 20 Hz or so note. This just happens to be around the area my speakers take a dip to .8 ohms (nasty!). This, combined with the volume pot sitting at near 3:00 or so and the 7B cried uncle but only for an instant in one channel. I've really worked these 7's out over the year I've had them and that is the only time I've seen red. :oops:
Yes - that piece can that really tax an amp. I love the bass riff though
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I probably will never have clipping. I have Magnepan 3.6's with my Bryston 4B-sst@2 in my apartment and play music softly all the time. The music playing right now is 'A' rated 68dB with Radio Shack meter. I would say my highest dB is mid 80's.
(( i guess I got all the "LOUD" out way back in my thirties.. Back then, open the window, crank up Figaro singing his entrance aria in the opera: "Figaro" and let the entire city neighborhood hear it on a Summer Saturday afternoon, while I plugged my ears... (LOL). Another time the manager though a truck had hit the building! ))
Now I just like to hear music, I do not feel I have to have it vibrate my whole body to enjoy it. So mid 80dB is as loud as i need.
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I need my tunes at least 80dbs!
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I probably will never have clipping. I have Magnepan 3.6's with my Bryston 4B-sst@2 in my apartment and play music softly all the time. The music playing right now is 'A' rated 68dB with Radio Shack meter. I would say my highest dB is mid 80's.
(( i guess I got all the "LOUD" out way back in my thirties.. Back then, open the window, crank up Figaro singing his entrance aria in the opera: "Figaro" and let the entire city neighborhood hear it on a Summer Saturday afternoon, while I plugged my ears... (LOL). Another time the manager though a truck had hit the building! ))
Now I just like to hear music, I do not feel I have to have it vibrate my whole body to enjoy it. So mid 80dB is as loud as i need.
Hi Elizabeth,
Like you, my 30's are "way back" as well but even at the ripe old age of 59 I still can't resist cranking up an acoustic bass solo. Maybe it's the pair of 12" woofers in each of my speakers combined with the 7B's that render an astonishing bass solo reproduction. Believe me my objective with the aforementioned scenario was not to get my 7B to clip. I also enjoy much of what I listen to at more civilized levels.
Regards,
Bill
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I have been driving a pair of Dynaudio (4 ohm load) with 4BSST2 at different gain levels on ALL genre of music but never had a chance to witness a moment of clipping (not that I like to). I usually have the BP26 volume knob at 9 O'Clock position and occasionally I will crank it up to 11 O'Clock.
I think my ears would bleed before I ever witness a clipping amp :violin:
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I usually have the BP26 volume knob at 9 O'Clock position and occasionally I will crank it up to 11 O'Clock.
Same here. Around 9 o'clock for pop/rock and other genres where they use compressors and do the "loudness war" thing. And around 11 for well recorded CDs. Usually this is either classical music or some older CDs produced before the compressor wars.
Nap. :thumb:
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I probably will never have clipping. I have Magnepan 3.6's with my Bryston 4B-sst@2 in my apartment and play music softly all the time. The music playing right now is 'A' rated 68dB with Radio Shack meter. I would say my highest dB is mid 80's.
(( i guess I got all the "LOUD" out way back in my thirties.. Back then, open the window, crank up Figaro singing his entrance aria in the opera: "Figaro" and let the entire city neighborhood hear it on a Summer Saturday afternoon, while I plugged my ears... (LOL). Another time the manager though a truck had hit the building! ))
Now I just like to hear music, I do not feel I have to have it vibrate my whole body to enjoy it. So mid 80dB is as loud as i need.
Your story reminded me of when i was in my late twenties living in a duplex in downtown Ottawa. My neighbours consisted of 6 very loud university students who took great delight lighting off fire crackers at 2:00am from our adjoining balconies..... One Halloween they had a huge keg party. Early the next morning it was payback time for all the fire crackers. I had a set of professional stage monitors I had rented for a DJ gig, so i snaked 50' of cable from my amp through my kitchen, out the door and into their kitchen. One facing upstairs, and one facing downstairs. Their house as expected was extremely quiet except for the snoring and impending hangovers that were lurking about. I had my girlfriend operate the cd player/preamp....and she played a very robust version of "Ride of the Valkyries" at ear splitting volumes. I don't if the Bryston was clipping or not, cause i was standing in the neighbours kitchen playing conductor with a ruler wearing a sh*t eating grin :)
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Awesome.
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Same here. Around 9 o'clock for pop/rock and other genres where they use compressors and do the "loudness war" thing. And around 11 for well recorded CDs. Usually this is either classical music or some older CDs produced before the compressor wars.
Nap. :thumb:
I go to 12 for vinyl. And around 10 or 11 for well recorded cds. 9 for compressed audio.
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I can easily clip my 7B ST's driving my Paradigm S8 v3's. It does not matter what the material played is, it could be the most bass demanding track out there, and those lights will turn red if I want them to.
:drums::bomb:
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I can easily clip my 7B ST's driving my Paradigm S8 v3's. It does not matter what the material played is, it could be the most bass demanding track out there, and those lights will turn red if I want them to.
:drums::bomb:
That seems odd. The S8's are notoriously easy to drive with a sensitivity of 92 db and an 8 ohm nominal impedence. As I posted earlier I had to present my 7's with the most excruciating scenario an amp should ever have to encounter in real life outside the lab before just one of the two would clip only for an instant (like a stobe light flash only red):scratch:.
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That seems odd. The S8's are notoriously easy to drive with a sensitivity of 92 db and an 8 ohm nominal impedence. As I posted earlier I had to present my 7's with the most excruciating scenario an amp should ever have to encounter in real life outside the lab before just one of the two would clip only for an instant (like a stobe light flash only red):scratch:.
What is odd about it? The S8 v3's can handle stupid amounts of power. I do not listen like that all the time, but like I said, if I want to make the 7B ST's clip, I can and the S8's don't even flinch. Based on that I would guess to say that the S8 v3's could easily handle a pair of 28B SST2's.
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Mhhh I can see vegasdave :drool: over the S8 pics.....
Nap. :lol:
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What is odd about it? The S8 v3's can handle stupid amounts of power. I do not listen like that all the time, but like I said, if I want to make the 7B ST's clip, I can and the S8's don't even flinch. Based on that I would guess to say that the S8 v3's could easily handle a pair of 28B SST2's.
Hi lossless,
I wasn't talking about the S8's power handling capabilities I was talking about them being easy to drive which is counterintuitive to making any amplifier clip let alone a beast like the 7B. The S8 is a great speaker by anybody's measure and being easy to drive takes nothing away from that. That the 7B would clip easily while driving them is what I find odd.
Regards,
Bill
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Mhhh I can see vegasdave :drool: over the S8 pics.....
Nap. :lol:
Nah, not really.
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Nah, not really.
Yeah, why would he drool, afterall S8's are only considered "mid-fi" right?
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn247/blownfiveo/AUDIO/S8071.jpg)
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Yeah, why would he drool, afterall S8's are only considered "mid-fi" right?
I think that the S8's are awesome speakers - I was very impressed when I first auditioned them :thumb:
Be well...
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I think that the S8's are awesome speakers - I was very impressed when I first auditioned them :thumb:
Be well...
I'm considering the Dynaudio Focus 360s at the moment.
(http://www.hdavchina.com/attachments/2009/01/17/29_200901171609161qXqi.jpg)
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How about a great pair of bookshelf speakers?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31381)
...or would you rather have your pick :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31382)
Be well...
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Yeah, Chinese cabinets with Mexican drivers! My JBLs are already made in Mexico. And if you blow a driver in yours, you're getting a Mexican made driver! haha. :D
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Yeah, Chinese cabinets with Mexican drivers! My JBLs are already made in Mexico. And if you blow a driver in yours, you're getting a Mexican made driver! haha. :D
This is where an exceptionally clean output from your amplifier and careful use of the volume control should negate this. If I ever "do" cook a driver, I am sure my audio guys can set me up with a non Mexican/Chinese substitute or a new complete speaker. Or I could look for new speakers made by someone else.
:idea:
If I did not have to maintain my wife’s :flame: PT Cruiser - who knows what may end up on the floor :eyebrows:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31386)
Be well...
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(http://)
Nap. :green:
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(http://)
Nap. :green:
that looks shopped
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that looks shopped
It isn't:
(http://)
Nap. :thumb:
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What's a mod like that cost? Do i just go to modwright?
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(http://)
Nap. :green:
:roll:
Yawn...
I have two or three of these things crawl out of my wife's PT Cruiser every week. Actually, they are not to hard to kill - but the garbage guy is starting to complain about the pile of them on the curb on garbage day.
Be well...
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This is where an exceptionally clean output from your amplifier and careful use of the volume control should negate this. If I ever "do" cook a driver, I am sure my audio guys can set me up with a non Mexican/Chinese substitute or a new complete speaker. Or I could look for new speakers made by someone else.
Ok, sounds good. I'm guessing your speakers are pretty robust, so it would take a lot of volume to blow a driver. Hell, I've had my low-end JBLs at full blast, and no blown drivers.
But, would it be so bad if you do blow a driver to have a Mexican-made driver? I mean it wouldn't be the end of the world, and you wouldn't have to get rid of the speakers...
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But, would it be so bad if you do blow a driver to have a Mexican-made driver?
Mhhh.... it might get a mind of its own and sing a different song than the other drivers...
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
ya no puede caminar
porque no tiene, porque le falta
marihuana pa' fumar.
Nap. :D
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:lol:
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Mhhh.... it might get a mind of its own and sing a different song than the other drivers...
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
ya no puede caminar
porque no tiene, porque le falta
marihuana pa' fumar.
Nap. :D
AYE CARAMBA!
Be well...
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AYE CARAMBA!
Mexican tweeters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzlhAtAai0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzlhAtAai0&feature=related)
This should fix vegasdave's lust for horns :lol:
Nap.
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Ok, sounds good. I'm guessing your speakers are pretty robust, so it would take a lot of volume to blow a driver. Hell, I've had my low-end JBLs at full blast, and no blown drivers.
But, would it be so bad if you do blow a driver to have a Mexican-made driver? I mean it wouldn't be the end of the world, and you wouldn't have to get rid of the speakers...
I have always suspected that it was not an issue of the speakers handling the amplifier, but the amplifier handling the speakers.
Case-in-point….
A while ago, I had a Sony receiver and it was rated for 100 watts @ 8 ohms. To this day, I believe that this amplifier had a very dirty, distorted output and that it had an extremely poor capacity to properly supply the speakers with the energy they required. It was very hard on speakers and you could actually hear the audio begin to “fall apart” when you increased the volume level.
Distortion and clipping will kill an inexpensive speaker as quickly as an expensive counterpart.
A feature I noticed about my Bryston amplifiers, albeit not right away, was the tremendous SPLs that filled the room and I did not even notice it. The reason for this, was that the audio signal to the speakers was very clean and the amplifiers had ample energy reserves required by the speakers. I still remember thinking that this gear could hurt you if you were not careful. Not taking anything away from the JBL 1400’s, but they are built like tanks from the ground up - I am still impressed with the 4 inch coil on the LF and for me, compression driven horns are my nirvana.
I believe the way to go is to get the highest powered, quality amplifier that you can find. This is not to shake the walls down, but to enjoy “all” of the music at very low SPLs. My 28B’s are rated for a little over 1.2 Kilo-Watts (my vanity peeks through once again as I like writing the power output this way) and combined with the 1400’s, they give me everything I want in my music. I am currently listening to Abney Park’s acoustic version of “Breathe” - it is beautiful and all of the detail is there from a pair of behemoths.
As for North American companies moving production to Chinese/Mexican suppliers, it truly saddens me. Not only to see what were once quality products been transformed into a “price-per-build” mentality, but what of our youth? Home ownership for the next generation may be very difficult for them to achieve with low paying jobs. Our standard of living is ultimately going to decline in North America.
The cure for the current recession was never found, they only treated the symptoms by throwing cash at it. Look at what is happening in Europe at this time and the American debt is now 90% of their GDP. We are no better up here, Canadians are also piling on the debt with debt-to-income levels rising to 145 per cent and an “average” household debt of $96,000.00.
Is that a storm you see on the horizon? Better believe it is.
I am rambling - time to enjoy my music.
Be well...
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I agree with you about North American companies going to Mexico, China, India, etc.
Thank goodness Bryston is not doin' this! And I hope never in my lifetime! 8)
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Mexican tweeters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzlhAtAai0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzlhAtAai0&feature=related)
This should fix vegasdave's lust for horns :lol:
Nap.
Get outta here, lol. :lol:
By the way, I read that Paradigm cabinets are made in China, true?
Speaking of horns, I'm interested in the Klipsch Cornwall III. The price isn't too high, has the 15" woofer like the JBLs, and Klipsch offers a 30 day money back guarantee for any reason!
And, is made in the US!
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Dave, if I were you I would be wary of any big expense right now:
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-stunning-crash-and-burn-of-las-vegas-2010-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-stunning-crash-and-burn-of-las-vegas-2010-6)
:o
Nap.
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I have to say this is sad. Having grown up there it is upsetting to see this city turn to shambles. Everyone of my friends who owns a house is in forclosure. "Viva Las Vegas?" Ummmm........
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:lol: You guys think Vegas will crash. Its the entertainment capital of the world. Its just needs to readjust. Vegas aint goin nowhere but Vegas....
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Its the entertainment capital of the world. Its just needs to readjust.
What "entertainment"? Gambling? That moved to Wall Street and ain't coming back...
Nap.
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I'm considering the Dynaudio Focus 360s at the moment.
Here for you:
http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/dynaudio_focus_360.htm (http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/dynaudio_focus_360.htm)
Nap. :thumb:
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Speaking of horns, I'm interested [...]
You should join Mag, he's in South Africa checking the world's biggest vuvuzela:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGIAh2GTOA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGIAh2GTOA)
Have respect, even the smallest garden variety can easily produce 130dB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGygEbhvOOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGygEbhvOOU)
Nap. :thumb:
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:lol: You guys think Vegas will crash. Its the entertainment capital of the world. Its just needs to readjust. Vegas aint goin nowhere but Vegas....
There's no way Vegas will crash. I was just stating that it's a shame that people there are going through some hard times. The vast majority of the work there is construction and casino. I hope vegasdave is sustaining. :thumb:
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:lol: You guys think Vegas will crash. Its the entertainment capital of the world. Its just needs to readjust. Vegas aint goin nowhere but Vegas....
I agree. Come see on a weekend here, the casinos are packed.
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There's no way Vegas will crash. I was just stating that it's a shame that people there are going through some hard times. The vast majority of the work there is construction and casino. I hope vegasdave is sustaining. :thumb:
I'm doin' ok, thanks. :D
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Here for you:
http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/dynaudio_focus_360.htm (http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/dynaudio_focus_360.htm)
Nap. :thumb:
Yeah, I saw that. Not a bad review, but not enough for me to run out and buy them. I'll definitely have to audition these...
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Napalm, did you read this ?
Manufacturers of high-value loudspeakers whose products challenge far more expensive gear aren’t all that common. Two speakers that come to mind are the PSB Synchrony One ($5000/per pair) and the Paradigm Reference Signature S8 v.3 ($6500/pair). Both have set standards for what can be achieved at their respective real-world prices, delivering full-range sound that you just wouldn’t expect for that money. Up to now, Dynaudio had no model that could directly compete with them in terms of performance for price.
these are my Babies ! Paradigm Reference Signature S8 v.3
Robert
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Napalm, did you read this ?
:oops: Busted. Yes, I did, and I was secretly hoping that Vegas Dave reads it too and goes for the Paradigms :green:
Nap. :thumb:
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Yes Sir !
There Thunder will push you side ways ! The S8 delivers
Robert
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Note for vegasadave: do not let the fact that the Paradigms are affordable and easily available here on this continent somehow diminish their perceived value. Yes we like exotic stuff more but just give them an audition. Sometimes the most beautiful rose grows in your backyard, right under your nose.
Nap. :thumb:
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Dave .......any of the Paradigm Reference Signature Series matched along with Bryston Amps
Synergy between the two is like :drool:
Robert
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Werd, How are you ?
Robert
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Note for vegasadave: do not let the fact that the Paradigms are affordable and easily available here on this continent somehow diminish their perceived value. Yes we like exotic stuff more but just give them an audition. Sometimes the most beautiful rose grows in your backyard, right under your nose.
Nap. :thumb:
No, I'm not. I'll probably give them a chance. They are $500 less than the Dynaudios. But since there's no Bryston dealers here in Vegas, I'll have to take my amp and preamp over there. Providing there is a local dealer for Paradigm.
Edit: And there is a local dealer. I'll call them when the time is right.
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No, I'm not. I'll probably give them a chance. They are $500 less than the Dynaudios. But since there's no Bryston dealers here in Vegas, I'll have to take my amp and preamp over there. Providing there is a local dealer for Paradigm.
Edit: And there is a local dealer. I'll call them when the time is right.
When I was inquiring about the S8's, the piano black finish was a little more than the other standard finishes. They are an awesome speaker vegasdave :thumb:
Be well...
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I am curious if anyone else has experienced their amplifier clipping at home or at an audition :scratch:
Weekly (sometimes daily)......for 20 years or so as the warranty has expired.
Up until the lights turn red, then back off half a degree or so. :oops:
3b is obviously not enough.
ch
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When I was inquiring about the S8's, the piano black finish was a little more than the other standard finishes. They are an awesome speaker vegasdave :thumb:
Be well...
Ok, thanks. But, I need to confirm whether or not the cabinets are made in China...
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Ok, thanks. But, I need to confirm whether or not the cabinets are made in China...
You will probably still need true confirmation from Paradigm, but from Home Theatre Magazine's December, 2008 article "Paradigm Reference Signature S8 Speaker System"......
"Paradigm is notable among speaker manufacturers for making so many of its speakers’ components in-house. On these speakers, only the cabinets are outsourced from China."
Steve
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Yeah, that's exactly where I read about the cabinets made in China thing. Not only that, I'm not especially crazy about how they look. A bit tacky to me.
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Yeah, that's exactly where I read about the cabinets made in China thing. Not only that, I'm not especially crazy about how they look. A bit tacky to me.
Have a listen to them if you can vegasdave :eyebrows:
Be well...
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Werd, How are you ?
Robert
Pretty good :thumb:, just bought a new mini van ..... pic about 2 pages back.
How about you ?
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Yeah, that's exactly where I read about the cabinets made in China thing. Not only that, I'm not especially crazy about how they look. A bit tacky to me.
They are tall floorstander, Pics don't do them justice. I am really not sure if they are the speaker for you though. They are loud enough mind you.
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Ok. Going loud is not my only criteria. But speaking of which, the speaker must go loud without breaking up or distorting.
Furthermore, the Paradigms or Dynaudios must be exceptional and really cream the JBLs I have before I even considering spending 1 dollar on them. Any anomaly and I will be content with the JBLs.
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Ok. Going loud is not my only criteria. But speaking of which, the speaker must go loud without breaking up or distorting.
Furthermore, the Paradigms or Dynaudios must be exceptional and really cream the JBLs I have before I even considering spending 1 dollar on them. Any anomaly and I will be content with the JBLs.
Vegasdave which JBL`s do you have?
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L890s
http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=L890CH-H&accT=1&tsT=0&ovT=1
review: http://hometheaterreview.com/jbl-studio-l-series-l890-floorstanding-loudspeaker-reviewed/
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L890s
http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=L890CH-H&accT=1&tsT=0&ovT=1
review: http://hometheaterreview.com/jbl-studio-l-series-l890-floorstanding-loudspeaker-reviewed/
Ive always liked the JBL L890 speaker........good bang for a grand.Great home theater speaker as well..........naturally for the price they dont have the bass of the 1400`s,but they also lack the `Brightness`which have always pushed me away from the 1400`s,but of course they are 2 totally different speakers...........cant go wrong with the L890`s
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Ive always liked the JBL L890 speaker........good bang for a grand.Great home theater speaker as well..........naturally for the price they dont have the bass of the 1400`s,but they also lack the `Brightness`which have always pushed me away from the 1400`s,but of course they are 2 totally different speakers...........cant go wrong with the L890`s
Well, I like them too. I got them for $850 with shipping. But this whole search for better speakers will come to an end if these models I'm looking at are not satisfying to me. I will wait until something else comes along.
Basically, I feel I'm not getting the most out of the Bryston equipment with the L890s. However, are these other speakers worth almost 9-10 times the price? With the exception of the Klipsch, which is 3-4 times the price.
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You will probably still need true confirmation from Paradigm, but from Home Theatre Magazine's December, 2008 article "Paradigm Reference Signature S8 Speaker System"......
"Paradigm is notable among speaker manufacturers for making so many of its speakers’ components in-house. On these speakers, only the cabinets are outsourced from China."
Steve
Yep that's the reference everyone see.
Just from hearsay, this happened to the Studio line when they moved from V4 to V5. V4 was a rectangular vinyl clad box. V5 is rounded, real wood veneer, lacquered. Rumors has it that in order to contain costs (there was no significant price increase from V4 to 5) they outsourced the new cabinets (which need serious labor to make).
Anyway, seeing both of them in person, the V5 cabinets are better made, better looking, better braced and less resonant. Any bass boomines present in v4 is now gone.
OTOH the Signature line was always made with real wood veneer etc, and the price was always high - not sure if they outsourced those too.
And as a side note - if you study period furniture, it was only the kings of France that could afford sending their stuff to get lacquered in China. Anyone else had to do with local craftsmen and shellac. (and I'm not kidding).
Nap.
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Proof
The Signature S8 here are Made in Canada
I can take a better pic if needed
Robert
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31501)
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Basically, I feel I'm not getting the most out of the Bryston equipment with the L890s. However, are these other speakers worth almost 9-10 times the price? With the exception of the Klipsch, which is 3-4 times the price.
Let your ears be the judge :D
Be well...
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Chinese mfg. is a touchy subject! I try to support mfg. from countries that support human rights. I have owned Cheinese made gear (still do) that has performed very acceptably.
It is hard to say why companies choose to outsource. Dynaudio doesn't, at all, JM Labs to Denmark and France, Revel now to China, Totem to Denmark and China, Paradigm(?). The odd thing is, is that Dynaudios business is still thriving. They are more expensive, yes. Just take a listen and a look at there 16 coat piano black laquer in person. You could shave in the reflection, the cabinets are phenomenal! They are not necessarily flashy but they are made with CARE!
That is rare anymore. Ask James and Bryston.
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Let your ears be the judge :D
Be well...
Exactly.
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Chinese mfg. is a touchy subject! I try to support mfg. from countries that support human rights. I have owned Cheinese made gear (still do) that has performed very acceptably.
It is hard to say why companies choose to outsource. Dynaudio doesn't, at all, JM Labs to Denmark and France, Revel now to China, Totem to Denmark and China, Paradigm(?). The odd thing is, is that Dynaudios business is still thriving. They are more expensive, yes. Just take a listen and a look at there 16 coat piano black laquer in person. You could shave in the reflection, the cabinets are phenomenal! They are not necessarily flashy but they are made with CARE!
That is rare anymore. Ask James and Bryston.
Well, that's why I'm interested in Dynaudio. With thanks to you for reminding me!
I'll also add: Klipsch Heritage (not sure about the other lines) is 100 percent made in the USA, and the prices aren't too steep.
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Proof
The Signature S8 here are Made in Canada
I can take a better pic if needed
Robert
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31501)
Ok, cool. Thanks. No better photo needed.
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Let your ears be the judge
Exactly.
Make sure you bring your wallet when you get around to listening to the Signature S6 or S8 with your Bryston gear. As stated already they're a perfect match. If you leave it up to your ears you'll be buying them.
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Hook up the Bryston to some Legacy speakers
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Make sure you bring your wallet when you get around to listening to the Signature S6 or S8 with your Bryston gear. As stated already they're a perfect match. If you leave it up to your ears you'll be buying them.
Ok, I will probably give those a try.
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Hook up the Bryston to some Legacy speakers
Legacy is another brand I was considering. Thanks for reminding me.
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Legacy is another brand I was considering. Thanks for reminding me.
So, your flirt with horns is over?
(http://)
Nap. :dunno:
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Nope. I said I was interested in the Klipsch Cornwall IIIs. You must have missed it...
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Nope. I said I was interested in the Klipsch Cornwall IIIs. You must have missed it...
How about these :scratch:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31544)
Be well...
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I don't think so...
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I don't think so...
Where is your sense of adventure vegasdave :scratch:
:wink:
Be well...
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How about these :scratch:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31544)
Be well...
Separated at Birth?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31554)
Gotta love Horn Speakers LOL
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Separated at Birth?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31554)
Gotta love Horn Speakers LOL
:lol: Nice! He looks just like a client of mine!
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The Living Voice Vox Olympian is certainly an interesting and finely crafted 4-way horn loudspeaker, but at $275,000, I'm sure only a handful of AC members could afford them.
Steve
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Where is your sense of adventure vegasdave :scratch:
:wink:
Be well...
haha. I find them to be rather ugly, and probably too big for my listening room.
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The Living Voice Vox Olympian is certainly an interesting and finely crafted 4-way horn loudspeaker, but at $275,000, I'm sure only a handful of AC members could afford them.
Steve
Wow. I got sticker shock over here.
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The Living Voice Vox Olympian is certainly an interesting and finely crafted 4-way horn loudspeaker, but at $275,000, I'm sure only a handful of AC members could afford them.
Wow. I got sticker shock over here.
Yeah, I meant if they all chipped in!
Steve
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haha. I find them to be rather ugly, and probably too big for my listening room.
What have I said about "pretty things" vegasdave :P
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81357.msg792599#msg792599 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81357.msg792599#msg792599)
Be well...
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Ok, granted. But I can't afford those, or come even close to doing so, so forget it!
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This review just out:
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/thiel_cs37_speaker_system/ (http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/thiel_cs37_speaker_system/)
Nap.
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Nice review - see I told you so :D
james
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That's pretty cool. I wish I could afford the Thiels.
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That's pretty cool. I wish I could afford the Thiels.
Well at least you can say you heard them 'first hand' Dave :thumb:
james
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Well at least you can say you heard them 'first hand' Dave :thumb:
james
You guys had fun in Vegas with them, right? CES?
Nap. :thumb:
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You guys had fun in Vegas with them, right? CES?
Nap. :thumb:
Correct - Every year Dave comes in, sits down and enjoys the Bryston/Thiel demo,... I hope :thumb:
james
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Correct - Every year Dave comes in, sits down and enjoys the Bryston/Thiel demo,... I hope :thumb:
james
Absolutely! You guys know what you're doing when it comes to a demo! 8)
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Well at least you can say you heard them 'first hand' Dave :thumb:
james
This is true. It's a great speaker. 8)
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How about a nice lacquer job on them:
(http://)
Nap. :eyebrows:
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Pretty cool!