AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: bunky on 28 Dec 2006, 11:27 pm
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I went on the Triode Electronics website and noticed they have the new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates which are remakes of premium western European NOS tubes that were designed specificaly for audio. i bought a pair and installed them today in my Candela. the performance of the ECC802's compare very favorably to the Amperex Holland ECC186/7316's i have that are the finest sounding 12AU7 tubes that i have ever heard :thumb: the JJ/Tesla ECC802's only cost a mere fraction of what the vintage 7316's cost and i recommend that anyone using the Candela should try a pair of the ECC802's. i promise that you wont be disapointed.thanks....WCW III
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I bought the JJ Tesla tubes you recommended, have not tried them yet as I also picked up some RCA 12AU7A ECC82's. They are great, the sound stage is wall to wall and the preamp took on a whole new dimension of musicality. So good I allowed my wife to play show tunes (Wicked), the layering coming out of my VMPS RM30M's (extremes with TRT caps and OXO) was nothing short of astounding. I have been playing with this stuff a long time and have owned some very expensive equipment, but I do not remember ever enjoying my system this much. The tubes made a huge difference. I was lucky enough to stumble onto the tube depot approx. 10 miles from my house in Orlando, the owner is a very knowledgeable man. He is getting me some instrument grade tubes to try...
I giggle when I see the recommendations for expensive preamps, when I know we have the best kept secret; the mighty Candela!
Candela, Extreme SE, Edge G cd, Shunyata Hydra and Hydra 2, Virtual Dynamics Master cabling, VMPS 30M OXO and larger sub
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I bought the JJ Tesla tubes you recommended, have not tried them yet as I also picked up some RCA 12AU7A ECC82's. They are great, the sound stage is wall to wall and the preamp took on a whole new dimension of musicality. So good I allowed my wife to play show tunes (Wicked), the layering coming out of my VMPS RM30M's (extremes with TRT caps and OXO) was nothing short of astounding. I have been playing with this stuff a long time and have owned some very expensive equipment, but I do not remember ever enjoying my system this much. The tubes made a huge difference. I was lucky enough to stumble onto the tube depot approx. 10 miles from my house in Orlando, the owner is a very knowledgeable man. He is getting me some instrument grade tubes to try...
I giggle when I see the recommendations for expensive preamps, when I know we have the best kept secret; the mighty Candela!
Candela, Extreme SE, Edge G cd, Shunyata Hydra and Hydra 2, Virtual Dynamics Master cabling, VMPS 30M OXO and larger sub
The Mighty Candela is right :thumb: it is probably the best kept secret in high end Audio. give the JJ ECC802's a go and let me know what you think.i am having a ball rolling tubes, rediscovering and listening to recordings that have sat dormant in my collection for many years 8) thanks....WCW III
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Reasonably priced is an understatement. I'm not using a Candella but if the 802's are even as good as some old RCA Black Plates, they're worth every penny and then some.
Bryan
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I bought some Teslas also - should have em by the end of the week.....my stratos monos SE/Candela/Loreleis system is new - has about 90 hours on it - still breaking in and sounding better every day - I'm pretty much blown away by what Im hearing already aa
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I also took your suggestion and ordered two pair of the new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates. I don't have the Candela, but I do have a pre amp and CD player that utilize 12AU7 tubes.
Thank you for the tip, Bunky! These are nice tubes at a great price.
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a great 12au7 tube is the rca cleartop which i use in my belles 21a preamp. i have also heard, but not used, that the cryoed radiotechnique 12au7 tube from france is great. upscale audio sales the non-cryoed version of the radiotechnique. and if midrange is your cat's meow then the mullard cv4003 is the ticket.
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a great 12au7 tube is the rca cleartop which i use in my belles 21a preamp. i have also heard, but not used, that the cryoed radiotechnique 12au7 tube from france is great. upscale audio sales the non-cryoed version of the radiotechnique. and if midrange is your cat's meow then the mullard cv4003 is the ticket.
i have a pair of the Mullard CV4003's and they have a very nice midrange but they seem a little too rolled off at the top for my ears in my particular system. thats the beauty of tube rolling,if you experiment you can find the flavor that suits your own personal preference without replacing Gear to get the sound you are looking for :thumb: thanks....WCW III
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the mullard cv4003 came stock with my preamp and that was my thought so i tried the rca cleartop, better bass and highs but the midrange while still good was not as good as the mullards so now i am looking for a tube that has the bass and highs of the rca cleartop but midrange of the mullard.
marvin
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DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT OWN or HAVE THE Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp!!!
The new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates are nice tubes. I know some will snub their noses at their price tag, but they sound real nice.
I also have a Mullard CV4003 and CV4004, and I like them a lot.
(Disclaimer: The Mullard CV4004 tube is a 12AX7/ECC83 tube. It is NOT to be used with the Odyssey Candela.)
WARNING: Do NOT use any 12ax7/ECC83 Tubes with the Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp !!!! NO DO!! NOPE! NEVER DO IT! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Nunca! Jamais! Machen Sie Es Nicht
This has been a Public Service message. Thank you. We now return you to the your regular discussion :green:
But the CV4003 sounds much better in my office system, with speakers that lean a little toward the forward......slightly brighter side, than in my two channel/HT system (Living Room) with my Wharfedale Opus 2.
I've also recently bought and tried (Not In the Candela Pre Amp, a different Pre Amp) the new Tungsol 12AX7 (New Sensor Corportation, not NOS) and these are some real nice tubes, too. I'm really enjoying these.
(Disclaimer: The new Tung-Sol tube is a 12AX7/ECC83 tube. It is NOT to be used with the Odyssey Candela.
WARNING: Do NOT use any 12ax7/ECC83 Tubes with the Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp !!!! NO DO!! NOPE! NEVER DO IT! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Nunca! Jamais! Machen Sie Es Nicht
:guitar:
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I realize that tubes can be very curcuit dependent; bit another one to try would be Phillips JAN 5814A's. Very low noise and microphonics; and only cost around $16 a piece. Not bad for NOS....
FWIW
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I've also recently bought and tried the new Tungsol 12AX7 (New Sensor Corportation, not NOS) and these are some real nice tubes, too. I'm really enjoying these
This thread is specific to the Candela 12AU7/ECC82 specified tubes ...
Please don't even think in inserting a 12AX7/ECC83 in place of the 12AU7/ECC82 used in the Candela Preamp... serious and most likely fatal damage will occur ...and will completely void the warranty on the unit!
Thank you,
Alex
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Always check with your preamp builder before subbing tubes. The 12AT7, 12AU7 and 12AX7 are not identical despite being 9 pin.
From Wikipedia:
* 12AD7 (October 10, 1955 - 225mA heater - low hum)
* 12AT7 (May 20, 1947, dual 6AB4 ɥ62 - gain of 60)
* 12AU7 (October 18, 1946 dual 6C4 ɥ17 gain of 19)
* 12AV7 (February 14, 1950 - dual 6BC4 ɥ48 gain of 41)
* 12AX7 (September 25, 1947 - miniature 6SL7 ɥ100 gain of 100)
* 12AY7 (December 7 1948 - ɥ48 gain of 45 for audio preamp use)
* 12AZ7 (March 2, 1951 225mA heater, ɥ 60)
* 12DT7 (ɥ100)
* 12DF7 (ɥ100 low microphonics)
Big difference in gain between 12AU7 and 12AX7. I tried using a 5814 (12AU7 variant) in my TAD150 (which came with a 12AT7) and wound up with power past 12 o'clock to get a decent volume from my Stratos Stereo Extreme and Lorelei's and the sound quality suffered. Paul @ BizzyBee said they could handle a12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7 and their military variants but the gain makes a big difference.
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Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.
I was merely stating, as a change of subject, that those new Tung-Sol 12AX7 longplates tubes are nice tubes.
I'll go back and add a disclaimer to my original post.
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I realize that tubes can be very curcuit dependent; bit another one to try would be Phillips JAN 5814A's. Very low noise and microphonics; and only cost around $16 a piece. Not bad for NOS....
FWIW
I found two quad sets of these in my tube stash yesterday. Have no idea where or when I got them either.
gary
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those tubes are for either my Conrad Johnson preamp or my 40 watt tube amp. I also found a couple quad sets of EL34's and several 5751's in matched pairs.
I have two pairs of Hammond tubes for the candela if an when the urge occurres. I that same stash was about a couple dozen 1% metal film resistors for that same amp. I am a pack rat as you can tell by now.
And while on the subject of Odyssey equipment and tubes; let add that my brother came over a few days back, and listened to the new amps and preamp.
He was stunned! Think this is the first time he's listened to tubes, and a good turntable. Called me up the next day, and asked me how much that Candela cost. And, I might add that he said quite bluntly that there's not way my sacd player's gonna keep up with a good turntable. Just smiled and said to myself "I told you so!"
gary
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Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.
Fully understood... I just wanted to make certain to the fact that both tubes are not the same. :thumb:
Please keep in mind that there are some new Candela owners, or about to become new owners that this will be their first experience with vaccum tube based units .... and we want for them to learn, feel comfortable and enjoy the magic of how music sounds through tube based units.
Thanks,
Alex
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Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.
Fully understood... I just wanted to make certain to the fact that both tubes are not the same. :thumb:
Please keep in mind that there are some new Candela owners, or about to become new owners that this will be their first experience with vaccum tube based units .... and we want for them to learn, feel comfortable and enjoy the magic of how music sounds through tube based units.
Thanks,
Alex
I did take the plunge and swapped out the tubes in my CD player yesterday afternoon with GE 5751 black plates. Been burning them in for almost 24 hours now. Guess I'll try the hammond tubes in the Candela later in the week, as the hum as came back to haunt me again (not nearly as pronounced as before).
gary
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also for the newby's-
dont take your candela in the bath with you either :duh:
been there done that :roll:
i changed my mind about the cbs /hytron tubes also-
so you can forget about them and just plain avoid them-yes avoid like the plague -stay far away-dont even think about trying them aa
for what ever reason the system sounds better today than ever
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Bunky, put the JJ Tesla's in tonight, very nice indeed! I was listening to a very well recorded CD Bill Frisell Blues Dream. If I did not have the RCA 12AU7A ECC82 cleartops I would stick with this tube, but the cleartops are outstanding. The opening guitar pluck made my jaw drop with the cleartops (he was in the room). The Tesla's sounded slightly high fi (probably because the balance became slightly brighter) in comparison. Try the RCA's if you cannot find them try the Tube Depot in Orlando (25.00 ea.)he had a few sets. It also convinced me to stay with my current setup it is that good. If you like a good demo recording with very realistic sound try Bill Frisell's CD, the music may have to grow on you...
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Rosconey, you are the MAC DADDY of Candela tube rolling! I've been reading your posts here and on Audio Asylum since 5/06 and you're quite the Candela guru. I completely agree with you about the CBS/Hytron 5814's. They are absolutely horrid! In fact, if any of you have any of these lying around I'll take them off your hands and give you some $$$'s- as a humanitarian gesture. This is to keep you from being exposed to these evil tubes that make magical music. :evil:
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Bunky, put the JJ Tesla's in tonight, very nice indeed! I was listening to a very well recorded CD Bill Frisell Blues Dream. If I did not have the RCA 12AU7A ECC82 cleartops I would stick with this tube, but the cleartops are outstanding. The opening guitar pluck made my jaw drop with the cleartops (he was in the room). The Tesla's sounded slightly high fi (probably because the balance became slightly brighter) in comparison. Try the RCA's if you cannot find them try the Tube Depot in Orlando (25.00 ea.)he had a few sets. It also convinced me to stay with my current setup it is that good. If you like a good demo recording with very realistic sound try Bill Frisell's CD, the music may have to grow on you...
I have been getting into a couple Bill Frisell albums lately and love them! Perfect with tubes ! Must get some more ! aa
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Rosconey, you are the MAC DADDY of Candela tube rolling! I've been reading your posts here and on Audio Asylum since 5/06 and you're quite the Candela guru. I completely agree with you about the CBS/Hytron 5814's. They are absolutely horrid! In fact, if any of you have any of these lying around I'll take them off your hands and give you some $$$'s- as a humanitarian gesture. This is to keep you from being exposed to these evil tubes that make magical music. :evil:
yup -they sound like fingernails on a chalkboard while hungover-
i also heard they can kill cats and small animals and make children not listen to there parents-AGAIN I SAY AVOID THESE TUBES AT ALL COSTS-and if you have some get them out of the house asap -i will dispose of them for you for a moderate fee before they ruin your life and maybe even cost you your job
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Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Martin
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Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Martin
Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?
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If you can find them, I'd recommend the rare 1950's sylvania 12AU7 with black plates and a bent square getter. My amp came stock with JJ 12AU7 input tubes, and swapping them to the sylvanias transformed the amp to something in a totally different class. Not even close. These tubes are really somethign special I think. Someone on another forum discribed them as "the most human sounding 12au7's period." If you like vocals and instruments to sound "real" i'd give these tubes a try.
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Disclaimer: I do not own a Candela PreAmp...
I do own a Odyssey Stratos Extreme SE w/EE Minimax PreAmp which uses 2 12AU7's.
I have only heard good things about this piece and would luv to hear, but for now my Minimax isn't going anywhere :wink:
The best results I had tube rolling 12AU7's is to first obtain what sonic signature you are going after.
Slam,low end extension,warmth,midrange and vocals,top end extension and extreme low level detail?
I listened to several newer tubes but ultimately ended up chasing the NOS tubes from the 50's and 60's. It is a lot of fun yet very frustrating to track them down,tested,matched and non microphonic. Once you have a good source you can experiment until your hearts content.
Here are my 3 favorites, good luck tracking them down:
59' ECC82 Valvo/Hamburg: Excellent soundstage,imaging and a clear window, no colorations to the sound
50's 5814 Raytheon Blackplate,triple mica,red printed label: Exquisite,rich midrange, good extension,balanced tube. Very affordable...
Mullard 10M with Gold Pins: not typical Mullard sound, extremely balanced top to bottom, excellent Macro and Micro details,very accurate portrayal, clean sound with a taught yet extended bass and airy highs. aa Very expensive and hard to find.
Other great tubes are early Brimar ECC82: spooky imaging and full sound, 50's Amperex 7316.
There are others, Siemens,Telefunken,Tungsram,but these fit my sonic tastes. YMMV
Happy Rollin' :thumb:
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Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Martin
Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?
Hi Bunky,'
In my setup - Stratos monos SE, candela, gronenberg cabling the Tesla longplates produced more detail in the upper ranges but overall tonality and bass extension was lost compared to the original JJ's installed in the Candela.....I have re-installed the original tubes to get the warm, rich sound with slam back. I'm very happy with the original tubes but will try more tube rolling in the future. :wink:
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What happened to the tubes Alex was getting?
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Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Martin
Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?
Hi Bunky,'
In my setup - Stratos monos SE, candela, gronenberg cabling the Tesla longplates produced more detail in the upper ranges but overall tonality and bass extension was lost compared to the original JJ's installed in the Candela.....I have re-installed the original tubes to get the warm, rich sound with slam back. I'm very happy with the original tubes but will try more tube rolling in the future. :wink:
Hey Martin, what Loudspeakers are you using ? our systems are very similar but not exactly the same, but our personal tastes may vary somewhat.i am using Gronberg TS premium Cables and i am using a beautiful Dark red Cherry pair of Lorelei's which produce a prodigous amount of bass and i love them dearly.my source is an Audio Aero Prima 24/192 MkII CD player,it is a tube unit but it is in no way shape or form laid back and provides plenty of detail and slam in my two channel rig. Alex @ Odyssey is going to get in a shipment of Cryroed Ei Elite Goldpin 12AU7s and as soon a Odyssey gets them they are going to ship a pair to me. you have some very nice gear and i am willing to Guess that your mono extreme SE's may not even be fully broken in yet. how many hours do you have on them ? try a few more types of tubes and see if you can find a flavor that you prefer.i agree that the stock JJ Tesla's that come with the Candela Sound great but the Candela is so receptive to tube rolling that it makes me want to try several other types to see if i can find a tube that will send my system to a even higher level. Enjoy....WCW III :)
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Bunky,
I have the Lorelei's also (dark walnut). My Stratos extremes have about 320 hours on them - they have been powered up for a month. My front end is a Onkyo Integra 6 disc changer running through a DH labs silver sonic toslink cable into a channel Islands audio VDA 1 and VAC 1 Dac and power supply, DH labs RCA's into the Candela. Your front end is probably in a different league than mine.
I've also recently tried plugging in my SCE Harmonic Recovery device between the Candela and Mono's which degraded the sound a bit also, no reason to use it with this new system.
How much is Alex charging for the the cryoed tubes?
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I am still looking for a second tube alternative for the Candela...they have to be available in modest-large quantities, reasonably priced and most importantly they must sound very good. The idea remains to sell them directly to current and future Candela owners.
The Ei Elite Cryo treated 12AU7 is still in the works...the problem is we need to secure a modest quantity at least, and they need to come from the same batch. The potential source has been very slow in following up.
I have also been testing a different ECC82/12AU7 cryoed (no name at this point...yet), that has the qualifications I am looking for, and may become also a different alternative.
I will keep you posted.
Thank you,
Alex
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I am still looking for a second tube alternative for the Candela...they have to be available in modest-large quantities, reasonably priced and most importantly they must sound very good. The idea remains to sell them directly to current and future Candela owners.
The Ei Elite Cryo treated 12AU7 is still in the works...the problem is we need to secure a modest quantity at least, and they need to come from the same batch. The potential source has been very slow in following up.
I have also been testing a different ECC82/12AU7 cryoed (no name at this point...yet), that has the qualifications I am looking for, and may become also a different alternative.
I will keep you posted.
Thank you,
Alex
Thanks for the update Alex :thumb:
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Will wait patiently Alex...in the meantime Ive ordered some RCA black plates and Hammond tubes off EBay...will post my impressions later.
Martin 8)
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I just received the GE Hammond tubes 1960's vintage - 4 for 19.00 shipped.....OMG these are fantastic - mid range has more detail...acoustic guitars are better defined, vocals are more pronounced than before, I'm hearing more air in the vocals, more inner detail, Lyle Lovett Joshua Judges Ruth background vocals are better defined everything is more "there"..lower noise floor and bass is extended, theres a low end rumble that was not there with the Teslas...I'm hearing more of what the Loreleis are capable of. Ive only been playing these for an hour and I'm very impressed. After one hour of playing I would say a 5 to 10 percent overall sonic improvement - the Candela is awesome.
:D
Martin
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can i say i told ya so now or should i wait aa
next find a pair of yellow label baldwin tubes circa 60's-
or rca tripple mica black plates-
bolth are a tad cleaner imho
dont waste money on brimars imho-
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Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll. :)
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll. :)
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
:duh:....sounds so simple.....good tip....I gotta try that.... :lol:
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Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll.
Good tip...make certain they don't roll off the surface to much and go down on the floor...they may not work as expected. :rotflmao:
Regards,
Alex
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Hey , I don't have a Candela (Klaus/AlexG - when are you gonna' have on-board phono?), but do really like the new Electro-Harmonix Gold 12AU7's.
Objectively, they are phenominally quiet (mine were cryo'ed, don't know if that mattered)....the subjective thing about tone is another thing. I think they sound quite good and they are quite inexpensive ($13.99 I think I paid).
12AU7's were originally built for non-hifi applications....so buying NOS in this case is buying industrial-type tubes with little regard to sound quality (and maybe no regard to microphonics, either). Anyhow, in 12AU7's, I like the new stuff.
Anyhow - my opinion only - thanks for all the good tips on other 12AU7 tubes out there (that long plate JJ ECC802 longplate is really interesting, too) :thumb:
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I have a tube preamp which uses the 12AX7's (I'm not sure if the tubes are compatible with the candella as I believe that they have a different heater pin voltage) But the comment which I'm trying to make isn't about the tubes themselves but the misconception of industrial tubes. I recently purchased 5751 replacements for the tube preamp (the gain is about 70% of the latter.) these are considered to be "industrial" tubes and are a lot cheaper than the 12AX7 counterparts. I bought 3 GE black plated, 3 mica-spacer varients (considered to be one of the best tubes of the type) for $50 w/ shipping. I have also tried some of the black plate 12AX7, which cost over $50 a tube and they actually sounded less refined and had higher mirophonics than the 5751 varient.
My point to be made; just because a tube is considered to be for "industrial" applications doesn't mean that it won't sound as good or even better in hifi applications. Read some reviews, roll some tubes, but most importantly trust your own ears. =>
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12AU7's were originally built for non-hifi applications....
Correct, the ECC82/12AU7 tubes were not originally designed for hi-fi (audio) applications with exception when used earlier on (and today) as a phase inverter in multiple stage audio circuits. They were initially commonly used in deflections circuits in old B&W televisions (remember those?...I used to fix them years ago while attending school). Later on they became popular in hi-fi mainstream applications because of their characteristics specific to having medium gain, wide bandwidth and very low noise... reason for being used in the Candela preamp!
I have a tube preamp which uses the 12AX7's (I'm not sure if the tubes are compatible with the candella as I believe that they have a different heater pin voltage)
No, the 12AX7's are not compatible with the ECC82/12AU7 used in the Candela preamp. However, both tubes filament voltage characteristics and pin configuration are the same (Vf=6.3/12.6V and If=300/150mA respectively).
My point to be made; just because a tube is considered to be for "industrial" applications doesn't mean that it won't sound as good or even better in hifi applications. Read some reviews, roll some tubes, but most importantly trust your own ears.
Right on, there is nothing wrong with industrial or better known as JAN (Joint, Army, Navy) tubes. These tubes were manufactured under strict JAN specifications that among other things called for withstanding high level vibrations and physical shock. These tubes were widely used in electronic equipment that among other uses were fitted in war planes including B52's! However, I read a article sometime ago that indicated some tube manufactures at the time would pick their best rated tubes and label them as JAN tubes!
Regards,
Alex
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I swapped out the 1960's GE Hammond ECC82's with a pair of 1950's RCA blackplates (ECC82) that I bought through eBay. The RCA's are slightly sweeter in the high end offering slightly more resolution overall but the Hammond's are a very close second. The great news is that all of these tubes can be had for under $30 a pair -( I paid about $10.00 a pair for the Hammond's plus shipping).
My wife an I both love the sound from the mono SE, candela, Lorelei combo.
THANK YOU KLAUS AND ALEX!!
aa
Martin
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don't know how these would sound in the candela but i just got a pair of circa 1950 EI 12au7 for my belles 21a preamp and they blow away the stock mullard cv4003 and a pair of rca clear tops and they only cost me $25 for the pair.
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i like all the "organ maker" tubes-keep a eye out for baldwin yellow label tubes-you might find the best of bolth the hammond and ge black plates in one aa-
just remember to avoid the early cbs/hytrons-
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I swapped out the 1960's GE Hammond ECC82's with a pair of 1950's RCA blackplates (ECC82) that I bought through eBay. The RCA's are slightly sweeter in the high end offering slightly more resolution overall but the Hammond's are a very close second. The great news is that all of these tubes can be had for under $30 a pair -( I paid about $10.00 a pair for the Hammond's plus shipping).
My wife an I both love the sound from the mono SE, candela, Lorelei combo.
THANK YOU KLAUS AND ALEX!!
aa
Martin
How about the bass with the blackplates?
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IMO the bass is as extended with the blackplates as it was with the hammonds. A touch more detail in the lower frequencies overall. The hammonds displayed significant more bass extension than the stock teslas that came with the Candela.
Martin
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Anyone know if the Philips Holland E80CC 12au7 variant works in Candela? If so, anyone ever tried them? Tom
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Alex said it would work electrically but is unfortunately almost 3" tall!! Oops, I guess we need a trap door on the top for tube rolling :green:
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Anyone know if the Philips Holland E80CC 12au7 variant works in Candela? If so, anyone ever tried them?
The E80CC is a variant to the 12AU7 but is a rare animal because it is 72mm (almost 3") tall! Most ECC82/12AU7 are under 50mm (2") tall.
The Philips Holland E80CC is not recomended to be used in the Candela because you will not be able to close the cover! :nono:
Regards,
Alex
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Since I don't have one yet in the flesh this may be obvious, but have you ever thought of putting holes with optional plugs and/or letting them poke through like the Modwright CDP's?? It would make it easy to swap without taking the cover off, assuming that's how it works.
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they will fit in my candella aa -send them to me and ill rate them for you :thumb:
thats the nice thing about my custom candella case-easy tube swapping
i think klaus was against a door for access because he was affraid people would drop things inside- but i never listen to anyone so i built mine with a hatch :roll:
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I just received a pair of JAN CBS Hytron 5814's WA - best military spec, circa 1955. They sounded good, presentation was forward compared to my RCA 12Au7 blackplates (1950's) but they did not have the sweet tubed sound of the RCA's, decay was probably better than the RCA's although altogether not as musical. The Hytrons were more stereo sounding as opposed to allowing the Lorelies to vanish characteristic of the RCA's. Microdynamics with the RCA's are very good - acoustic guitar strings sound real, vocal timbres are beautiful soundstaging back to front and side to side is fleshed out better with the RCA's than any of the other tubes Ive tried (see below). I do think that tube choice comes down to personal taste, room characteristics, type of music, and other components associated with the Candela.
The order of my my personal favorites so far is:
1. RCA blackplates 1950's - black backround with white RCA lettering $29.00 shipped off eBay
2. 1965/66 Hammond 12AU7 made by G.E. - Very close to the RCA blackplates, not quite as sweet sounding but a nice upgrade to the stock Tesla's. (I have an extra set Ill sell for $20.00 shipped paypal add 3% - PM me if interested)
3. 1955 CBS Hytrons JAN5814WA
4. Candela stock Tesla's
5. New Tesla longplates
I'm sticking with the RCA's until I decide to fork out the dough for some European NOS......later.
The system sounds great! :D
Martin
Odyssey Stratus Mono extremes, Candela, Lorelei's, Onkyo Integra 6 disc changer, Channel Islands VDA1 and VAC1, Gronenberg, DH labs and Signal Cable cabling.
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are the cbs hytrons new? mine took a day or so before they started sounding great-my hammonds were used and sounded good from the start-
ill take those cbs/hytrons off your hands aa
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The Hytrons are new - Ill let em burn in for a day and get back with you. :o
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=746
candella tube rolling made easy :o
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Rosconey your Candela tube modification is brilliant!! :thumb:
I like the "tube tray" on top.
Way to go!
:D
Martin
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=746
candella tube rolling made easy :o
BTW - what did you do with the on/off switch?
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=746
candella tube rolling made easy :o
BTW - what did you do with the on/off switch?
I believe that Rosconey has one of the two original prototype Candela's 8) in slightly different casework and his power switch may be on the back of the Preamplifier
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I just received a pair of JAN CBS Hytron 5814's WA - best military spec, circa 1955. They sounded good, presentation was forward compared to my RCA 12Au7 blackplates (1950's) but they did not have the sweet tubed sound of the RCA's, decay was probably better than the RCA's although altogether not as musical. The Hytrons were more stereo sounding as opposed to allowing the Lorelies to vanish characteristic of the RCA's. Microdynamics with the RCA's are very good - acoustic guitar strings sound real, vocal timbres are beautiful soundstaging back to front and side to side is fleshed out better with the RCA's than any of the other tubes Ive tried (see below). I do think that tube choice comes down to personal taste, room characteristics, type of music, and other components associated with the Candela.
The order of my my personal favorites so far is:
1. RCA blackplates 1950's - black backround with white RCA lettering $29.00 shipped off eBay
2. 1965/66 Hammond 12AU7 made by G.E. - Very close to the RCA blackplates, not quite as sweet sounding but a nice upgrade to the stock Tesla's. (I have an extra set Ill sell for $20.00 shipped paypal add 3% - PM me if interested)
3. 1955 CBS Hytrons JAN5814WA
4. Candela stock Tesla's
5. New Tesla longplates
I'm sticking with the RCA's until I decide to fork out the dough for some European NOS......later.
The system sounds great! :D
Martin
Odyssey Stratus Mono extremes, Candela, Lorelei's, Onkyo Integra 6 disc changer, Channel Islands VDA1 and VAC1, Gronenberg, DH labs and Signal Cable cabling.
After listening to Rosconey and allowing some time for the CBS Hytron tubes to burn in I have to stay I stand corrected.......
THE CBS HYTRON TUBES ARE AWESOME!!!!!
COMPLETE SYSTEM TRANSFORMATION!!!!
HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THIS SINCE I HAVE OWNED THE ODYSSEY SYSTEM
DETAIL IS INCREADIBLE
SOUNDSTAGE COMPLETELY BLOWN OUT COMPARED TO THE OTHER TUBES IVE TRIED
THESE PUT THE SYSTEM IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUE THAN BEFORE
HYTRONS GO TO NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST IMHO
GET SOME
ROSCONEY I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH
- MARTIN
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I just received a pair of JAN CBS Hytron 5814's WA - best military spec, circa 1955. They sounded good, presentation was forward compared to my RCA 12Au7 blackplates (1950's) but they did not have the sweet tubed sound of the RCA's, decay was probably better than the RCA's although altogether not as musical. The Hytrons were more stereo sounding as opposed to allowing the Lorelies to vanish characteristic of the RCA's. Microdynamics with the RCA's are very good - acoustic guitar strings sound real, vocal timbres are beautiful soundstaging back to front and side to side is fleshed out better with the RCA's than any of the other tubes Ive tried (see below). I do think that tube choice comes down to personal taste, room characteristics, type of music, and other components associated with the Candela.
The order of my my personal favorites so far is:
1. RCA blackplates 1950's - black backround with white RCA lettering $29.00 shipped off eBay
2. 1965/66 Hammond 12AU7 made by G.E. - Very close to the RCA blackplates, not quite as sweet sounding but a nice upgrade to the stock Tesla's. (I have an extra set Ill sell for $20.00 shipped paypal add 3% - PM me if interested)
3. 1955 CBS Hytrons JAN5814WA
4. Candela stock Tesla's
5. New Tesla longplates
I'm sticking with the RCA's until I decide to fork out the dough for some European NOS......later.
The system sounds great! :D
Martin
Odyssey Stratus Mono extremes, Candela, Lorelei's, Onkyo Integra 6 disc changer, Channel Islands VDA1 and VAC1, Gronenberg, DH labs and Signal Cable cabling.
After listening to Rosconey and allowing some time for the CBS Hytron tubes to burn in I have to stay I stand corrected.......
THE CBS HYTRON TUBES ARE AWESOME!!!!!
COMPLETE SYSTEM TRANSFORMATION!!!!
HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THIS SINCE I HAVE OWNED THE ODYSSEY SYSTEM
DETAIL IS INCREADIBLE
SOUNDSTAGE COMPLETELY BLOWN OUT COMPARED TO THE OTHER TUBES IVE TRIED
THESE PUT THE SYSTEM IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUE THAN BEFORE
HYTRONS GO TO NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST IMHO
GET SOME
ROSCONEY I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH
- MARTIN
Who sells them and how much do they cost 8)
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This is the link from my purchase:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170084400470&rd=1&rd=1
Walden Puddle on Ebay may have more of these new.
JAN CBS HYTRON 5814WA 1950's
Some other can probably give better advice than me on the WA lettering but from what I understand that means they are the highest grade made for the military, although 5814A's may be identical, Im not sure.
I think JAN stands for Joint Army Navy??
$46.00 shipped.
Get some
Martin
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Correction JHY 5814WA
:thumb:
Martin
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didnt i tell you guys awhile ago to avoid the cbs /hytrons
- but noooooooo you guys just ignore my advice and buy them anyway :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
next guy who buys a pair will have some serious issues with me -the lack of respect shown by buying these tubes after i told you not too is enough to warrant a beotch slap upside the head :duh:
if anyone has a pair of e80cc's they want tried out in a candella just send them my way-or you guys who didnt take my advice can buy me a pair :thumb:
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Just bought two more Hytrons as backups
wa wa weee
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Funny Martinr, mine came in the mail today, same Walden Puddle is the ebay seller, $47 for both w/shipping and insurance. I'm off now to put them in. Rosconey and martinr: how much time till the sound gets ideal?
Rob S.
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I don't want to steal Rosconey's thunder so Ill let him respond.......
:P
(about a day).
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Hi guys, installed my new CBS/Hytron 5814WA's in the candela last night, and something is wrong. Initially upon powering up, the left tube was lit up brighter than normal and the right tube wasn't showing any faint glow. Sound wise the right channel was hazy, much softer and probably distorted.
So I switched channels for the tubes: Now both look the normal level of soft red glow of my previous tubes but the sound problems have switched to the other speaker.
Next up, I put in my Mullard CV4003's and all is well. Is is common for a tube to be faulty right out of the box?
Rob S.
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I would contact Walden - Puddle and see if he will swap out the bad tube with another one.
- Martin
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one of the nos brimar's :cuss: i bought was bad out of the box-
bought a pair of e80cc's to try off agon
and my cbs/huytrons are better than yours-they were made 5/55 not 8/55 like the ones you bought aa
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Rob S.
I hate to tell you but you got a bad tube! It appears (big glow as described) that you had a filament very weak that took most of the load (filament) of both tubes, reason for the other one to barely turn on and consequently giving you the distortion you mentioned, as the tubes were not working (transconductance) properly! It failed but did not short...if it was shorted out (most likely filament to cathode), you would had an immediate blown fuse, not to mention also some ugly smell!
That is the nature of tubes...if the tube fails from inception, it will short or not work properly from the moment you turn it on....sometimes within a few minutes! Reason for making certain you and everyone else get tubes that are fully tested properly. Keep in mind that this does not happen very often as people may think.
All Candelas are burned in a minimum of 24-48 hours prior to shipment with the stock JJ ECC82/12AU7! I have not seen one fail yet!!!
Also make certain as you roll tubes (is it fun or what...), that the unit is off and so is the amp or amps ...or else :cry:
Regards,
Alex
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i got curious about all the good things people were saying about the CBS/Hytron 5814WA, so I ordered a pair. I haven't recieved them yet, but I just found out that my amp can't use these tubes :duh: :duh: i jumped the gun way too early. If anyone wants them when I get them, send me a PM.
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e80cc's are running in my candela-
no comment on sound quality at this time
edited at aboot 9pm to read- nope dont waste your money-no majic no life and no soul with narrow stage and bad depth,vocals were abot 3 feet wide-just not a good match-
stick with the cbs/hytrons and organ tubes for far far less-
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is there anyone who bought a pair of the cbs/hytron 5814 tubes and did not like them and would like to sell them? send me a pm.
marvin
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Marvda1-
This place still has some I think.
I got a pair to try in my Audio Mirror PP1.
They sound very nice in my setup and reasonably priced.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CBS-HYTRON-5814-x2-MIL-SPEC-1955-BLK-PLT-TUBE-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ170096333813QQihZ007QQcategoryZ67816QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/CBS-HYTRON-5814-x2-MIL-SPEC-1955-BLK-PLT-TUBE-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ170096333813QQihZ007QQcategoryZ67816QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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I purchased a pair of the CBS/Hytron 5814's and have them in my Candela (with a very light application of Walker SST). I haven't had much time to listen but initial observations include a less "forward" presentation than the stock tubes and perhaps a bit wider soundstage. My room is only 15 ft deep so getting the stage off "my lap" is a nice plus so far.
I also orders some NOS RCA Cleartops and some New Slovak's (JJ/Tesla ECC802) for comparison.
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I purchased a pair of the CBS/Hytron 5814's and have them in my Candela (with a very light application of Walker SST). I haven't had much time to listen but initial observations include a less "forward" presentation than the stock tubes and perhaps a bit wider soundstage. My room is only 15 ft deep so getting the stage off "my lap" is a nice plus so far.
I also orders some NOS RCA Cleartops and some New Slovak's for comparison.
I bought a pair of the CBS Hytron 5814's today off ebay too. Now all I need is for the Candela to arrive and let the rollin' begin :wink: Tom
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Listened for an hour or so tonight. The CBS Hytron's are really an improvement over the stock tubes. Vocals more real, cymbal decay is the best I've heard in my system and bass is fast and tight. Drums overall are awesome. Soundstage is wide and deep. This is the best my rig has ever sounded. My wife even came in from the other room and sat down to listen.
I have some new Tessla longplates and some ARI tube dampers that I want to try but am in no hurry to change anything right now.
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I purchased a pair of the CBS/Hytron 5814's and have them in my Candela (with a very light application of Walker SST). I haven't had much time to listen but initial observations include a less "forward" presentation than the stock tubes and perhaps a bit wider soundstage. My room is only 15 ft deep so getting the stage off "my lap" is a nice plus so far.
I also orders some NOS RCA Cleartops and some New Slovak's (JJ/Tesla ECC802) for comparison.
I just ordered some RCA Cleartops also from Brent Jessee to try out his week. Will be interesting to see how they compare in my setup.
Without a doubt the CBS/Hytron tubes are a nice sounding in all ways without any real weakness to my ears.
Considering their price-a great value compared to many well regarded NOS tubes.
-
I tried out the JJ/Tessla's last night. They sound nice but pail in comparison to the CBS Hytrons, considering the price difference they are still a good value. Not nearly as lively or textured with a smaller soundstage.
I also installed two pair of ARI tube dampers on the CBS's and I'm not sure yet if I like them. There is more bass and an overall more "controlled" sound. I want to listen some more before making any judgements.
-
I just ordered some RCA Cleartops also from Brent Jessee to try out his week. Will be interesting to see how they compare in my setup.
Could you point me to this source? I'm not familiar with all these tube suppliers yet.
Thanks,
Tom
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my preamp is the belles 21a and my tube progression was: mullard cv4003 (stock), rca cleartops (better), nos ei (pre war embargo, better), 1950's slyvania grey plates with baldwin organ label (better and close to the hytron) maybe a little leaner in the mid bass but this brings out a lot of detail, and now cbs/hytron 5814wa (best so far).
i was hoping someone did not like theirs and i could get a backup pair on the cheap :lol:
there's one tube i still want to try, '50's raytheon 5814, blackplate, triple mica, with red printed label.
marvin
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I just ordered some RCA Cleartops also from Brent Jessee to try out his week. Will be interesting to see how they compare in my setup.
Could you point me to this source? I'm not familiar with all these tube suppliers yet.
Thanks,
Tom
Here is link to Brent Jessee website. Very nice guy and comes highly recommended for his knowledge, attention to carefully matching pairs and customer service. My experience so far has been very good.
He helped my find some tubes to try out within my modest budget.
http://www.audiotubes.com/ (http://www.audiotubes.com/)
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yup audiotubes is a good place to deal with-i bought a few types from him
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I just bought a pair of clear tops from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He was great with advice for a noob. Tom
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I have been burning in a pair of cleartops from Brent this weekend.
A different presentation than the CBS/Hytrons in my setup.
A bit brighter and punchier.
Excellent clarity.
Probably prefer the CBS/Hytrons so far but will see how they sound in a day or two.
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there's one tube i still want to try, '50's raytheon 5814, blackplate, triple mica, with red printed label.
marvin
[/quote]
See my posting in this thread...The 50's Triple Mica Raytheons are very nice. :wink:
Mullard Gold Pin 10M ECC82 even better aa
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does anyone know how the hytron 12au7 sold by the same guy on ebay sounds compared to the hytron 5814wa?
thanks,
marvin
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5814WA is a tube built for military use - more rugged and lasts longer.....haven't compared it to the 12A7, but it is supposed to be a better tube.
aa
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Usually people commenting on the CBS/Hytron tube specify the 5814a for whatever reason.
I am just getting into tube rolling a little bit, but these are pretty well regarded from what I have read.
They are very good in my setup.
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i have the hytron 5814wa and would like a backup. it seems the guy on ebay is out of them but he is still selling the hytron 12au7. now if anyone would like to trade their hytron 5814wa for a nos ei pre war embarge 12au7 then i'm game :)
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http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tubes&n=149149&highlight=baldwin+12au7&r=&session=
Here is some info on the CBS/Hytron 12au7 I stumbled across.
Sounds like they are different from 5814.
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surely someone does not like the cbs/hytron 5814wa's and would like to sell them?????
-
Tell you what -- I have a friend who is bring by some NOS Sylvania black plate 8514a's and some Amperex 7316 PQs, plus I have yet to give my Amperex Bugle Boy a try, but if any of those can live up to the Hytrons, I may be able to make you a deal. No guarantees, but with all these new goodies coming in, it is at least theoretically possible. The problem is that they are just to great in the gain stage of my Minimax, and I have yet to try them in both gain and buffer positions -- which I'm sort of afraid to do :-)
I do have one problem with that Walden Puddle guy on eBay -- his shipping is simply outrageous -- he charged me the full $7 per line item, plus another $1.35 for insurance, packed them all in one small, extremely lightly padded cardboard box and probably pocketed $20 or more in profit on the shipping on $95 worth of tubes.
If he can't get his shopping cart together so that it only adds one shipping charge for all line items (or if he manually refunds the difference via paypal), and if he doesn't start packing tubes a bit more carefully, I won't buy from him anymore. Tubemonger, Tube Depot, Brent Jesse and Vintage Tube Services all packed their tubes especially well -- worlds of difference from Walden Puddle.
-- Jim
surely someone does not like the cbs/hytron 5814wa's and would like to sell them?????
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here's two more tubes you need to try, rca 5814 black plates triple mica and brimar 13d5.
-
Yup, the triple micas are on my list, but somebody suggested they Sylvanias, so now I'll keep an eye out for the RCA's too.
I'll have to trust you on the Brimmer -- lots of folks say they're too warm, and unless there was one in my old Audio Note M1 -- which the seller thought he had put in, I've never heard one for myself.
Hell, I'm just lovin' this tube rolling thing again as it's been a long time that I've had any tube equipment that had much in the way of tube choices.
The Bugle Boy went in this morning, so in a couple days I'll see how that does -- so far very nice.
-- Jim
here's two more tubes you need to try, rca 5814 black plates triple mica and brimar 13d5.
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since the cbs/hytron 5814wa is a good match for the candela i think the rca 5814, triple mica, black plates would be a good match, it has just as much detail as the hytron but whereas the hytron sounds powerfull the rca is a smoother sounding tube. i prefer the hytron but use the rca as a change of pace tube, ones wine tasting (rca) and the other beer drinking (hytron) :lol: , i drink mostly beer.
i got my pair of rca's from walden puddle on ebay ($20) but since have not seen any more. he does charge $7 to ship and does not put the tubes in boxes just bubble wrap and boxed.
-
My pair of CBS/Hytron 5814 A's are supposed to be coming by mail anytime now. i hope they sound Heavenly :angel: :lol:
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bunky, where did you get yours and how much did they cost?
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bunky, where did you get yours and how much did they cost?
I advertised that i WTB a pair at Club Polk and George Daniel/ Dangerbird responded and asked for my adress so that he could send a pair of them that he had to me. 8)
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lucky you!!
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My good friend Dangerbird / George sent me a pair of Red label 1955 Vintage CBS /Hytron JHY-5814WA's that appear to be NOS.they sound very good right out of the box.they have a very Lively presentation :drool: thanks George! :thumb:....WCW III
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Can someone provide a link to the CBS Hytron 5814WA's? I can't find them, and hope to have a pair before my new Candela shows up aa
Thanks,
Mark
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I bought some military CBss with a red label, 1955, and a couple with a yellow label. Anyone have any ideas what I got. I have extras of the red label CBs if any1 needs any.
I have no idea whats what... WHATS WHAT ??? Hey boss big butts... (heh) If you dont have kids just dont try and comprehend it.
M
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I bought some military CBss with a red label, 1955, and a couple with a yellow label. Anyone have any ideas what I got. I have extras of the red label CBs if any1 needs any.
I have no idea whats what... WHATS WHAT ??? Hey boss big butts... (heh) If you dont have kids just dont try and comprehend it.
M
My 1955 CBS/Hytron 5814's have red printing on them and were probably from a military contract also :thumb:
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Is this the correct CBS/Hytron 5814 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180137249063&ih=008&category=67807&ssPageName=STORE:PROMOBOX:NEWLIST#LIST
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The tubes that I sent Bunky were from the same seller.I'll pm you the details of the tubes that I obtained,if I still have it. Hope this helps.
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the tubes in the link are cbs 12au7's not cbs 5814wa's. the 5814wa's have red labeling.
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I think you really do have a Candela and just dont want us to know!
Mike aa
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bringing this back up from the dead!
anyone else got some suggestions? or is the cbs/hytron the hot ticket for now....
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I have not been able to find a pair of Hytron 5814As and have tried 12AU7As from Telefunken, Mullard, Amperex and currently the RCA Cleartops. My favorites are the Amperex Bugle Boys and the RCA Cleartops. I still want to try the Hytrons some Tung Sol Black Plates and some RCA Black Plates.
Have Fun!
Ken
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My favorite 12AU7 is Eastern Electric labelled new production Chinese, which is standard issue in their gear. Extended top and bottom, lightning fast, very low distortion. I don't know who manufactures it or whether it is available as part only. I prefer it to all these NOS tubes which all have some issue with tone, speed or extension. But I have not tried the elusive Mullard 10M, but that' so hard to get it might as well not be in the discussion.
Rich
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With gear other than a Candela, I've really enjoyed my NOS Raytheon 12AU7A Blackplates (and NOS Baldwin/Raytheon), NOS Baldwin/Sylvania 12AU7A and NOS Baldwin/RCA 12AU7A. As well as just plain NOS RCA 12AU7A.
Each one delivers the music a little differently, but they all sound wonderful.
Depending on your system and personal preferences.....YMMV.
And yeah, those NOS RCA Cleartops (with side getter) are some sweet sounding, special tubes. Some have said they sound too bright. But I have found that if you play them in (I guess burn them in is a better term) for a good 50 hours or so, they really sweeten up and even develope a slight warmness that just sounds beautiful). Again, that's in my system. YMMV.
-
I currently have La Radiotechnique tubes in the Candela. Nice change from the original JJs. Not as bright, overall smoother presentation, definitely opened up the midrange. They don't play loud as well as the JJs.
I've also got 3 more sets incoming; RCA Blackplates, Classic Amperex, and Jan 5814WA CBS Hytron black plates.
We'll see which I prefer. I plan to order some RCA cleartops, and Mullards shortly, after that those should last me a while!
Mark
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The Jan 5814WA CBS Hytron black plates have been in the Candela for about a month. I'm just going to echo previous posts - do not buy these tubes. I'll take spares off your hands to avoid the utter lack of musicality.
Wow nice tubes
Mark
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I pulled the CBS Hytrons and have put in the Classic Amperex. So far, much better midrange and highs with not as much bass as the Hytrons. With my new speakers I think I prefer the Amperex. A matched pair of Telfunken's are on the way.
Mark
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RCA Cleartops... gllg sweet top end. Ive said it a million times. Ill say it again.
Mike
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My two cents-
Out of the 4 pairs I have tried in the Candela-
1 Tesla
2 RCA cleartop
3 Amperex
4 Brimar
I have to say I like the Brimar best by a large margin. I have not tried the CBS Hytron??
But I might.
-
I have tried:
Stock JJ's
Amperex Bugle Boys
Telefunken
Mullard
RCA Clear Tops
My favorites of this group are the RCA Clear Tops followed by the Bugle Boys.
-
FWIW I have alternated between a pair of CBS 5814wa's and Amperex 7316's in my Audio Mirror preamp.
Would echo the statement above-the CBS tubes have a bit more bass than the norm. The 7316's are extremely clear and balanced from top to bottom.
Have used RCA cleartops also. Great for the money-a little unrefined on top to my ears.
The 7316's are as advertised-they do everything well.
The CBS tubes are also very special- a bit rounder in sound.
-
I have tried a few tubes over the last year,
JJ's
Amperex Bugle Boys
Telefunken
CBS Hytrons
RCA Black Plates
La Radiotechniques
The best performers so far are the Amperex followed by the Telefunken.
Mark
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The Amperex ECC186/7316 D-getter PQs are my favorite 12AU7 varient .I prefered them in the Candela and i have heard them in other 12AU7 preamp circuits and to my ears they are #1 :thumb:
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Guys, Bunky, what are your current preferred sources for the CBS Hytrons and Amperex bugle boys? I have the Candela with the RCA cleartops and love the sound. I have a feeling they are are about to expire pretty soon and would like to have a new and improved replacement before their demise. Kindly advise, people.
Thanks in advance,
Etor
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I've used several but my favorite is Andy at Vintage Tube Services.
http://vintagetubeservices.com/
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Has anyone used Herbie's vacuum tube dampers on the Candela? Also has anyone compared the UltraSonic RX vs the UltraSonic?
Thanks in advance...
-
Can't answer that question anodyne. Just popping in to say that I have had some 1956 JHY CBS Hytrons 5814 WA s in my system for the past week and it is a significant improvement over the RCA Cleartops. I finally understand the hype about the Candela.
-
I've had the CBS Hytrons in now for over a year and they are great...I would like to try the The Amperex ECC186/7316 D-getter, but they are expensive- around $150 ea. I believe! .... May be my next upgrade in the future.
Love the Candela, stratos monos combo!
- Martin
-
Takin the plunge!
Gonna see what these sound like compared to the Hytrons -
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1249356650&/Amperex-Pq-7316-ecc186-12au7/e
aa
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The 1961 Amperex ECC186/7316 made in Holland with the D getters sound excellent. I think it was well worth the $$ to get this leap in sound quality. I am always amazed at the system, especially the Lorelies each time I upgrade..the tubes are holographic, nice overall tube feel to the music, extended bass, sweet highs and mids...if I crank it it sounds fantastic, band is in the room....I put on Little Feat Waiting for Columbus re-mastered, Rock and Roll Doctor the other night and by god if I didn't find myself dancing in the middle of the floor!
aa aa
- Martin
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That sounds great. Nice to know there is still more improvement to be eked out of the Candela with even better tubes.
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Takin the plunge!
Gonna see what these sound like compared to the Hytrons -
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1249356650&/Amperex-Pq-7316-ecc186-12au7/e
aa
After having both of these for awhile now would you say the 7316's are better than the Hytrons?? Really worth the extra $$?
Thanks!
Aaron
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I've used several but my favorite is Andy at Vintage Tube Services.
http://vintagetubeservices.com/
Agreed! Andy is the man when it comes to Tubes! His prices are slightly
higher, but his tubes continue to rock without incident - after years!
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Takin the plunge!
Gonna see what these sound like compared to the Hytrons -
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1249356650&/Amperex-Pq-7316-ecc186-12au7/e
aa
After having both of these for awhile now would you say the 7316's are better than the Hytrons?? Really worth the extra $$?
Thanks!
Aaron
Aaron -
Yes the tubes were well worth the $$ IMO. I wanted to get the most out of the Candela and I believe the tube upgrade was well worth it. As I understand it some people prefer RCA clear tops. (I tried a fairly inexpensive pair early a few years ago) but for me these Amperex bring out the best of the pre-amp. The most noticeable changes are more detail and a deeper soundstage with these tubes compared to the Hytrons.
- Martin
- Martin
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Anyone have a pair of Clear tops or Hytrons they would like to sell? My Candela still has stock tubes after 2yrs.
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Anyone have a pair of Clear tops or Hytrons they would like to sell? My Candela still has stock tubes after 2yrs.
PM sent
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I just ordered this pair of RCA Clear Tops:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391045950608
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I've tried several pairs of vintages including CV4003, RCA Clear top, CBS 5814WA, JJ, Gold Lion reissue, Amperex PQ 7316 small O getter, & PSVANE MK II. Amongst all of those, Amperex has the best midrange with Odyssey Kismet monoblocks & great result with Psvane as well. The Psvane is better when mate with my Cary monoblocks. The Psvane is punchy, fast, details (I mean very clean clean micro details, more movements on the midrange as well). I know & I know, psvane is MIC.
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I just got the Psvane 12AU7 T-Mark II as suggested by AlTran... wow! These are much better than my RCA Cleartops. They're very quiet. It's as if the noise floor dropped by ~15-20db. The top-end is very black. I haven't even broken them in yet and am excited to see how they improve.
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Reviving a very old thread. There is not a lot on tube rolling the Candela online, but this is by far the biggest thread on it, even if it hasn't been posted to in 6 years.
Is the Candela still made the same as it was 15 years ago? Just want to make sure all these replies are still relevant.
I think I asked Klaus about it, and he said don't, or that he wouldn't. That said, I would like to try it. I don't want to break the bank, looking for under $100 each, maybe a bit more. Any recommendations would be great. I am now going to read back through all the posts... :)
Also, The tube noise with my stock tubes isn't bad, just barley audible from the listening position. Is that common/normal with stock tubes in the Candela?
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Hey Brad,
I owned a Candela for about 5 or so years in my system, and rolled quite a few tubes over the years. I wrote this quick review to the new owner on some of the tubes I've had in the preamp:
Tubes are extremely subjective. A lot of it comes down to opinion, the quality of the tube gotten, your personal system and if it’s already warm, cold, bass heavy, etc. You can really balance out your system based on the tube you pick. What I’ve tried:
RCA Cleartop: great highs, and high end shimmer. I found them a little low and miss bass light. Didn’t have the punch I wanted. Just sounded unengaging to me. BORING.
Brimar: these are very similar to Mullards, except generally less expensive. Classic British tube! Great mids! Really punch where the cleartops don’t. But I think they’re missing the sub-sonic bass region. Top end is there, but they don’t extend as far as the RCAs. Perfect for rock music!
Amperex: My favorite tubes. They are very good all around. Probably the best for imaging. They have very good bass. May be lacking in mid details possibly? Very good for electronic music! I have a pair of 1960 USA Amperex's in my Dodd currently, with no plans to change.
CBS Hytrons: these guys are amazing! I had three pairs. BUT, I never had any that were in good condition. These are basically extinct, and if you can find a pair, I’d HIGHLY suggest it!
Telefunken: the most expensive tubes I had (in the Candela). Definitely one of the best. Possibly the most balanced of all the tubes. If they excel in anything I’d say micro detail, and a really balanced feel to them. They just do everything very well.
Maybe that's a little bit of a start for you! Again... YMMV, and my opinion may be the exact opposite of the next persons!
Also - I have no clue if they've changed the Candela over the years. If so, I believe it would be very minor updates. BUT I can nearly guarantee that the sound signature is almost identical.
Klaus said he doesn't suggest rolling tubes??... that doesn't sound like him :scratch:
Yes, personally I always experience a little bit of tubes noise. I know some of it comes from the two radio stations close by... ones literally across the street from me, and ones a couple blocks away... Never would have thought to look for that when buying a house :duh: Sucks when playing guitar too.. sometimes I can literally jam along to the radio through my amp.. :lol:
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Hey Brad,
I owned a Candela for about 5 or so years in my system, and rolled quite a few tubes over the years. I wrote this quick review to the new owner on some of the tubes I've had in the preamp:
Tubes are extremely subjective. A lot of it comes down to opinion, the quality of the tube gotten, your personal system and if it’s already warm, cold, bass heavy, etc. You can really balance out your system based on the tube you pick. What I’ve tried:
RCA Cleartop: great highs, and high end shimmer. I found them a little low and miss bass light. Didn’t have the punch I wanted. Just sounded unengaging to me. BORING.
Brimar: these are very similar to Mullards, except generally less expensive. Classic British tube! Great mids! Really punch where the cleartops don’t. But I think they’re missing the sub-sonic bass region. Top end is there, but they don’t extend as far as the RCAs. Perfect for rock music!
Amperex: My favorite tubes. They are very good all around. Probably the best for imaging. They have very good bass. May be lacking in mid details possibly? Very good for electronic music! I have a pair of 1960 USA Amperex's in my Dodd currently, with no plans to change.
CBS Hytrons: these guys are amazing! I had three pairs. BUT, I never had any that were in good condition. These are basically extinct, and if you can find a pair, I’d HIGHLY suggest it!
Telefunken: the most expensive tubes I had (in the Candela). Definitely one of the best. Possibly the most balanced of all the tubes. If they excel in anything I’d say micro detail, and a really balanced feel to them. They just do everything very well.
Maybe that's a little bit of a start for you! Again... YMMV, and my opinion may be the exact opposite of the next persons!
Also - I have no clue if they've changed the Candela over the years. If so, I believe it would be very minor updates. BUT I can nearly guarantee that the sound signature is almost identical.
Klaus said he doesn't suggest rolling tubes??... that doesn't sound like him :scratch:
Yes, personally I always experience a little bit of tubes noise. I know some of it comes from the two radio stations close by... ones literally across the street from me, and ones a couple blocks away... Never would have thought to look for that when buying a house :duh: Sucks when playing guitar too.. sometimes I can literally jam along to the radio through my amp.. :lol:
Thanks for the quick reply. I am very happy with it as is, but if I want to be picky, a little warmer/richer vocal/midrange would be what I am looking for. My Moabs are a very forward speaker, so less forward would be fine as well. I can't hear above about 12-14khz, so anything affecting the highs above that won't help me much. And I don't want to lose much if any bass.
After reading through the posts, the longplates seemed like a nice cheap "upgrade" but no one really spoke to their difference over stock, and the RCA Cleartops seemed like a very popular solid choice. But "I found them a little low and miss (mid?) bass light" would scare me a bit. I was also looking at the Amperex Bugle boys, but "lacking in mid detail" doesn't sound good. But that probably isn't compared to stock? Did you mean the Amperex Bugle boys?
Maybe I am remembering wrong on the Klaus thing.
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Whoops, yes I meant they were missing a bit of low and mids in the RCA's. Maybe I won't say "missing", it just didn't have the punch and dynamics that I wanted.
As far as the Amperex tubes go, actually looking back they were Holland Philips Miniwatt's. Which I cannot say for sure how closely these are to Bungle Boys, but I am near certain they hold the same general tone. I've had a few of the Amperex/Philips lines, 12ax7, 12au7, 6922, and 6x4 rectifiers. They've ALWAYS performed phenomenally. My current 7308 tubes (basically the higher tolerance versions of 6922 & 6DJ8 tubes... if I remember correctly) are outstanding... HUGE upgrade over the 6922 Gold Lions, which are pretty decent as far as new production goes.
But as far as my "lacking in mid detail" comment, this is STRICTLY comparing them to the Telefunkens which had the best mid detail of the bunch. I wouldn't say they were particularly worse than any of the other tubes... I honestly just had to try to think of something that they didn't absolutely excel in compared to the others.
Comparing them to the stock JJ tubes? It's laughable how much better they are. They'll be phenomenally better in the mids (regardless of my comment :lol:), and everywhere else. Again... YMMV.
Tube rolling was one of the most enjoyable journeys I've had in HiFi... It can get expensive quick though! $100 here, $50 there, oop look just spent another $150 to try these out... it adds up :lol:
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What I basically did (which I have no regrets of) is I tried to go through every main line of tubes to get their flavor. I bought inexpensive used buggers off eBay for the experience. When I found the line I enjoyed most, I went ahead and bought some niiiiiiiice ones, knowing they would be a higher quality flavor of the tone I enjoyed... :thumb:
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At over $500/pr for the miniwatts, that is really more than I wanted to spend. I think I will pull the trigger on a pair of clear tops or bugle boys, both are in stock at ~$200/pr. I will likely also grab a pair of longplates, for contrast.
From your comments, the Amperex seems like the better option over the cleartop. I may pull the trigger on both before it is done... :)
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$500 for a miniWHAT?!?!?!
Wow okay... I think I got mine maybe 8 years ago on eBay for about $40... But it was a gamble purchase because the whole description of the tube was something like "nice tube, used, they work". I got them and they were nearly mint, with no hum at all. Guy didn't know what he had.
Before you go and spend that much on Cleartops (or any tubes) make sure to check eBay.
Here's quite a pair of Cleartops for less than $30: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115005203882?hash=item1ac6d825aa:g:A5oAAOSwWQ1hFovI
:thumb:
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$500 for a miniWHAT?!?!?!
Wow okay... I think I got mine maybe 8 years ago on eBay for about $40... But it was a gamble purchase because the whole description of the tube was something like "nice tube, used, they work". I got them and they were nearly mint, with no hum at all. Guy didn't know what he had.
Before you go and spend that much on Cleartops (or any tubes) make sure to check eBay.
Here's quite a pair of Cleartops for less than $30: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115005203882?hash=item1ac6d825aa:g:A5oAAOSwWQ1hFovI
:thumb:
Thank you! I bought them, how could I not for that price? I get nervous buying tubes from random eBay sellers, that is usually why I don't look there.
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I agree - It certainly is a gamble! But I'd say 75% of the time, I've gotten good tubes from eBay. Just need to look around a bit, and generally the good sellers always post test results from the tubes. Be aware though, a lot of those old testers were used for more... hmm, if it works or not purposes? For instance on some testers, they can test "good" in their specific parameters. Which, in an old 1960's military radio, I'm sure they are just fine! But on a system that we're trying to recreate the impossible ("real" music), the "good" rating can easily be well beyond the point of them being no good in a HiFi system.
Regardless; I hope they work out! If not, $30 is a pretty small investment :thumb:
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My 1st venture into tube was a 1st generation Schiit Freya. I tube rolled quite a bit with it. Then I realized it just sucked to start with... :duh:
It passive section was good, but the tube section was very noisy.
I think I will pick up a pair of longplates, it will help me have context in judging the Cleartops.
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I found this sight and can not find any negative reviews for it. Very good price, but no option for matching the pair....
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-ecc802-12au7-jj-electronics-long-plate
Anyone ever bought from them before?
EDIT: I just got an email back from them, they don't match preamp tubes... at least these anyway. I asked is that because you feel it isn't necessary?
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I bought the long plates anyway, at $15.75 each not much to complain about. Neither of the 1st 2 places I found that carried them offered matching.
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Curveball:
Northern Electrics...$ 90 - 95. for a matched pair...LOVE them. They are like a match of perfect 60's NOS midrange with the control and dynamics of a modern tube.....just works wonders for me when not using my $ 1 K gold pins.....
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Curveball:
Northern Electrics...$ 90 - 95. for a matched pair...LOVE them. They are like a match of perfect 60's NOS midrange with the control and dynamics of a modern tube.....just works wonders for me when not using my $ 1 K gold pins.....
Thanks Klaus. Like these? https://www.thetubestore.com/northern-electric-12au7?quantity=2&additional_options=3
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yup
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I've got a pretty big collection of NOS tubes and I've also tried most of the new production tubes. I'm sorry but most of the stuff that's made in Russia and eastern Europe just isn't at the level of the NOS stuff. The new Russian tubes are always just a bit too dry sounding, IMO.
However there is one production tube that I do like, sounds great, and tests/measures well above spec - the Psvane 12AU7 Art series. Actually IME, Psvane is really crushing it with their Art series, the Western Electric series and their Cossor series. Really great sounding tubes (although not cheap). I've been doing A-B comparisons between the Psvane EL84-S tubes and my 3 sets of NOS EL84's (Mullard, Sylvania, Telefunken) and the Psvane is as good as any of them. Really shocking, especially to a tube snob like myself. But hats off, these are great tubes.
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However there is one production tube that I do like, sounds great, and tests/measures well above spec - the Psvane 12AU7 Art series. Actually IME, Psvane is really crushing it with their Art series, the Western Electric series and their Cossor series. Really great sounding tubes (although not cheap).
Thanks,
I found the Psvane 12AU7 Art series for $100/pr matched. That's not too bad of a price.
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I second the Psvane....had very good results with it as well and I would put it up there with the NE's, albeit they are a bit different overall....
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I second the Psvane....had very good results with it as well and I would put it up there with the NE's, albeit they are a bit different overall....
How would you characterize their differences?
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I put the long plates in a couple days ago, they are smoother than the stock tubes. I have had the Candela on with a source running for 2 days now to burn them in.
I got the Clear tops and the Northern Electrics in today, I was going to swap out to one of those. But after listening for a bit today, I was so pleased with the sound, I am going to just enjoy as is for a while longer. :D
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Gonna jump on the bandwagon on this revived thread...
I had gotten the Northern Electrics on Klaus' recommendation. And I have to say, they are really great. Fairly balanced top to bottom, sweet mids, and a expansive soundstage making my narrow room sound wide. And fairly psychedelic on some prog electronic music (Lunatic Soul).
I just recently put in the longplates that started this thread. More dynamic with a nice soundstage, but not as "sweet" as the NEs. Better than the stock ones, but I had a stock one die so I was in need!
I'm going to try some RCA Cleartops, some Electro-Harmonix (they were mentioned somewhere in this thread and are inexpensive), and then I might try the Psvane at some point. I agree, at $100 matched pair that's not too bad.
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I hadn't really had time to sit back and A/B the RCA Clear tops and the Northern Electrics until today. Interestingly, with my system the RCAs are the clear winner. Much more engaging and enjoyable. My Moabs are a forward speaker, the RCAs are more laid back than the NEs, better synergy. I also found the mid bass more prominent, bass guitar stood out more (something I really like).