AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: jorgen on 20 Jan 2017, 11:57 pm
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Hi guys
I just have reveal my upcoming treat to self. I have two pairs of Omega speakers. A custom 7" alnico floorstanders and a pair of CAMS. Well to be short, Louis had some problems with a glue, with the result that the veneer wasn't ideal. Have to say, the Omega warranty isn't just for show, Louis was just as keen to make this right and offered to build a new pair. In to this mix my misses insisted that we should stay with floor standers. We both enjoy the first pair of speakers we bought a lot. A while after I got the CAMS I first read about the 1.5 HO speakers and I found that I really wanted to try this solution. A few emails back and forth, and with the guidance from Louis I (or we?) decided for a custom Super 7xrs cabinet with two of the Alnico drivers in a 1.5configuration. They are due to arrive by the end of the month or so.
Well I used to do a little, and a little got to little and a little got more and more... so when Decware released a mono version of the ZEN with a whooping 2.8 watt per channel...I wanted a pair of those. I have heard a ZEN select from earlier, with my original floorstanders, and if the HO solution of the Alnico driver adds anything at all I'm in for a proper treat. The setup will be a very clean and revealing system. I have found my love with single ended amps and honest, sensitive speakers.
A few weeks from now...
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Way to go Jorgen! I sure am tempted by the new RS5 HO. Two of the Alnico drivers would be even more amazing.
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Way to go Jorgen! I sure am tempted by the new RS5 HO. Two of the Alnico drivers would be even more amazing.
Just when I thought I would be happy with the dual RS5's. I am hopefully getting them in a month or so. I am sure I will be VERY happy but do get back to us and let us know what you think of your dual Alnico's!
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+1 on the Super 7XRS 1.5 way, look the top.
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Grats thats awesome. Have to say love the dual rs5 monitors i have fantastic speakers.
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From the owners of 1.5 HO speakers they seem to be a very good speaker. Especially with super fast SET amps, and I have heard a standard 3xrs and loved the sounds. There are some really good reasons for choosing those in stead of the Alnico, and also some very good reasons to go the Alnico way. When I bought my first pair of Omega I wasn't aware that the 6.5 alnico driver was a better driver than 7" I asked for. I just went for the bigger one and thought that would be best. The 7" Alnico is a very good driver I have to say and my custom floor standers are a very good speaker. Still I wanted to try the 6.5" version when I bought monitors , mainly because of user feedback of the 6.5 alnico. I will use the drivers I have from the monitors in the new floor standers. I don't how know they sound, either of 1.5 HO solutions to be honest but I guess both are really good speakers.
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From the owners of 1.5 HO speakers they seem to be a very good speaker. Especially with super fast SET amps, and I have heard a standard 3xrs and loved the sounds. There are some really good reasons for choosing those in stead of the Alnico, and also some very good reasons to go the Alnico way. When I bought my first pair of Omega I wasn't aware that the 6.5 alnico driver was a better driver than 7" I asked for. I just went for the bigger one and thought that would be best. The 7" Alnico is a very good driver I have to say and my custom floor standers are a very good speaker. Still I wanted to try the 6.5" version when I bought monitors , mainly because of user feedback of the 6.5 alnico. I will use the drivers I have from the monitors in the new floor standers. I don't how know they sound, either of 1.5 HO solutions to be honest but I guess both are really good speakers.
Jorgen,
You may recall that I had Super 7's with 7" Alnicos also. I now have the Super Alnico Monitors. The SAM drivers are definitely more refined than the 7".
......Peter
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Hi Peter
Yeah i remember, I do believe we bought quite similar speakers the first time around. Even though I have had or rather owned a pair of speakers with the 6.5" I haven't heard them enough to review them properly. A friend borrowed them for a while when he was waiting for his 3 xrs, and later when I had them here they never got proper stands, time and opportunities to shine. When the new pair arrives I will to give them time to impress. There will be two pretty similar systems playing in our household, but with enough difference to make the comparison interesting.
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Hi Jorgen,
I'm glad Louis is standing behind his work - I have three sets of Omega's and the cabinetry is first rate. One pair has some very minor veneer bubbling, but they are 12 or 13 years old and the beech veneer may not have been of the same grade as is used now.
Is the custom Super 7XRS cabinet the same size/volume as the stock cabinet? It is smaller than the other Alnico models with the exception of the CAM. It would be interesting to hear your experience with two alnico drivers in this cabinet. I know from my own experience that all of Louis' drivers work in different cabinet volumes, and I appreciate the flexibility of stand mounts for both placement and for moving around solo (as much as I like big speakers, being able to move them single-handedly is a priority for me).
R
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First time poster here. I think you'll be very happy with your speaker / amp combo. I know I am! I just put this system together -- now I have to work on presentation. Cheers, Steve
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156859)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156860)
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Congratulations stevegpt and welcome to the Omega AudioCircle. Very nice system with super high value components. Looking forward to reading about your impressions once it's all broken in and you have your "presentation" sorted out. My guess is that it even sounds great as you have it currently set up. :thumb:
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Hi jorgen,
Thanks and your new speakers are ready and will be going out this week. Great to hear about the Zen's mono's and it's going to be a fantastic combo.
It was great working with you and this was a very fun project. The look and sound are excellent.
Thanks for the great posts and welcome stevegpt. Great system and I also look forward to hearing about your impressions of your High Output 7's.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Hi guys
Thanks Louis and great experience as always. Glad they will be shipped this week. Amps will arrive the 28 th this month and speakers should be in da house by then. Looking forward to hearing the HO speakers, I have heard many of Omega's drivers, but this will be a new experience
Louis and I first landed on a 3xrs cabinet on steroids, and later Louis suggested the Super 7 cab, from round one we decided HO solution and I believe 96-97 db sensitivity. Zebra wood venering. I think it will be pretty cool.
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FED EX delivery the 20th, should expect a couple of days extra though, usually the customs have an issue..
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They are here and they are fantastic! Took me 20 minutes to unpack and install spikes and drivers I had from before, which are properly matured from prior use in my monitors. Even though they are smaller than my prior speakers they sound bigger faster and with better resolution. I gave them Morphine, and they are serving me my favourite poison.
Adding a second driver really does make a difference, but also I have to admit this 6.5" Alnico driver is better than my 7" alnico. Not like day and night, but a step up, most definitely. I'm gonna have so much fun in the days to come.
In a week my new triode amps arrive!
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Jorgen,
Hey, glad they are hitting you right!
Love to see some photos and further impressions after you settle in with them. Particularly, advantages/disadvantages of the 1.5 configuration.
I lost track, are these standard Super 7 MkII XRS cabinets (29" x 11" x 8")?
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Particularly, advantages/disadvantages of the 1.5 configuration.
+1 would be great to see some light on this subject.
Its a rarely used config, it may be very useful to music fans.
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Yes I will post both pics and impressions when I have more hours on them. Even though the FR drivers has been used quite a bit they have been in storage the last 8 months or so, so I guess there is a possible development to expect. The second drivers are brand new and need their time to wake up. Have to say though that burn in is mystical and development is sneaking up, and I think the sound is rich and solid very quickly. If they develop like other speakers and drivers I have had, the sound will be in
I haven't measured the cabs but I do believe they are standard 7xrs cabs. I was about to go with Super 3xrs cabs with HO Alnico drivers but I'm glad Louis just told me to go with the larger cabinets. They also came with spikes that makes them tilt a little backwards. So I am pretty sure they are standard cabs with upgraded drivers. I'm not sure where the coil is kicking in either.
I will later try write down what the up and downsides of the solution is, but I'm already experiencing more body and more detail, I also find a more 3D perspective, but haven't played much with position and placement.
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After 15 hours or so of music I can't find any disadvantages with the 1.5 HO solution. This driver is more detailed and have more attack. I also find better depth in the soundstage. The biggest difference is (of course) more in the lower end. Of course I'm biased by my expectations but this is better speaker. Still, I will not part with my old speakers, I had a small accident with and notch I made makes the sale value much lower than what they worth to me. A cool thing is the fact that I now can speakerroll back and forth.
Totally off topic; If I can make a solution, can tubeamps be hung on the wall?
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Totally off topic; If I can make a solution, can tubeamps be hung on the wall?
Depending what tubes it use, unfortunately the heat will hit the transformers which is not good, but if you live in Canada...
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After 15 hours or so of music I can't find any disadvantages with the 1.5 HO solution. This driver is more detailed and have more attack. I also find better depth in the soundstage. The biggest difference is (of course) more in the lower end. Of course I'm biased by my expectations but this is better speaker. Still, I will not part with my old speakers, I had a small accident with and notch I made makes the sale value much lower than what they worth to me. A cool thing is the fact that I now can speakerroll back and forth.
Totally off topic; If I can make a solution, can tubeamps be hung on the wall?
Good to hear your impressions and glad they are working out for you. Now, I must resist.....
Are you talking about mounting to the wall so the bottom of the amp is against the wall? You could use a shelf and let it sit naturally. Or, to avoid the heat issue, hang so the transformers are on the bottom and tubes towards the top (if the amp is laid out that way). Cables, if jacks are on the back of the amp, would hang straight down. If an integrated amp with controls, might make it more difficult though.
If you have similar climate to me in Alaska, the heat might not be an issue. If I recall, we are at about the same latitude.
......Peter
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I wouldn't recommend putting your amp on the wall unless it's on a shelf and the wall is very sturdy. Tube amps are more sensitive to outside vibrations and microphonics than solid state amps. Also, the metal top plate of the amp (assuming it's a Decware or similar) acts as a heatsink and is most efficient when sitting as designed.
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I suppose that would depend on the tube amp. The first thing that would occur to me is to investigate if the amp were structurally suitable for hanging at a 90 degree angle (assuming that is your intention). Most amps are designed with the weight of the transformers resting on top of a horizontal chassis, and the aluminum or sheet steel top plate may not like a 5 pound transformer hanging by four screws.
On the other hand, some designers accommodate sideways mounting. Don Garber's Fi X amp is cruciform in shape and rests on its "side".
Other considerations include making sure that tubes are aligned for plates to be vertical.
The broader question is what is the purpose of hanging the amp on the wall?
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Is he really thinking of hanging it vertically? I interpreted his question as hanging a shelf on a wall and sitting his amp on it. As long as it was securely attached to the joists in the wall, with sturdy shelf brackets, I can't see that being more prone to vibration than a cabinet.
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I suppose that would depend on the tube amp. The first thing that would occur to me is to investigate if the amp were structurally suitable for hanging at a 90 degree angle (assuming that is your intention). Most amps are designed with the weight of the transformers resting on top of a horizontal chassis, and the aluminum or sheet steel top plate may not like a 5 pound transformer hanging by four screws.
On the other hand, some designers accommodate sideways mounting. Don Garber's Fi X amp is cruciform in shape and rests on its "side".
Other considerations include making sure that tubes are aligned for plates to be vertical.
The broader question is what is the purpose of hanging the amp on the wall?
Good point about the transformer weight!
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The amps om question are mono zen amps from Decware and I should let you know this was just an idea for a solution which wasn't thought through. I need to figure out a way to have a phono stage, a pre ( for now my miniTori, and these two mono in a smallish cabinet, or rather, I can't make all of them fit. If I was to follow this idea, I would hang them with transformers downwards and Steve states that the chassis is quite robust.
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You could always put the monos close to the speakers. I think this is the preferred sonic arrangement as well: Longer low signal cables and shorter speaker cables. I'm not sure you would hear a difference unless the length was very long, but could be a solution for physical arrangement.
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Yes this the first option to explore, and probably the most obvious way to solve a small luxury problems. Having (too) much audio equipment is a good thing.
The new speakers are really growing on me. I went to my mountain cabin for a few days but my son has been playing a lot of music over the weekend and the HO speakers are developing very nice. I hear a lot more details with this drivers, and also more body is added to the details.
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I will second Peter's recommendation. With the small size of the Zen amps they could sit completely in the shadow of your speakers. As a bonus your speaker cables would be very short. On the other hand, you will be running longer interconnects.
I would also avoid putting too many tube components in a small cabinet. While they may be ok with the heat, you will find that the life of some components may be shortened.
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Rearranged my cabinet and made enough room for the necessary gear, but I will have a problem if I want to go for a preamp, which I need because of the only one source limitation, or if I want a more solid DAC
later. Since I have spend all my money this will not be an issue for a long time.
Anybody have any experience what thes speakers prefer in terms of placement? I have plenty of room behind my listening position, and the wall behind them is 4,5 meters, 12-13'
Maybe unnecessary to write but they have a solid backwards port
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Hi Jorgen,
Thanks and great news regarding the new High Output speakers. Very happy you like them. It was a very good idea to go with the larger 7 XRS cabs for the added volume and still keeping with the small footprint. Bass and mid-bass benefits.
When it's possible a picture would really help in regards to placement.
I also agree with Peter and roscoe65's posts for the amp placement.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Hi Jorgen,
Thanks and great news regarding the new High Output speakers. Very happy you like them. It was a very good idea to go with the larger 7 XRS cabs for the added volume and still keeping with the small footprint. Bass and mid-bass benefits.
When it's possible a picture would really help in regards to placement.
I also agree with Peter and roscoe65's posts for the amp placement.
Thanks again,
Louis
Louis,
Is it possible to retrofit a Super Alnico monitor as a 1.5HO? It would appear to have about 20% more volume than a Super 7XRS cabinet.
R
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Hi roscoe65,
Thanks and it's easy, but you would lose the grill and need a larger port.
For fun I sealed the ports on Alnico HO monitors and was happy with the bass.
I read your post about how far away you are and you must live on Long Island. I have a lot of family there.
Thanks again,
Louis
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Hi roscoe65,
Thanks and it's easy, but you would lose the grill and need a larger port.
For fun I sealed the ports on Alnico HO monitors and was happy with the bass.
I read your post about how far away you are and you must live on Long Island. I have a lot of family there.
Thanks again,
Louis
I'm in Huntington. I may give you a call when things settle out in my system to discuss.
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Hi roscoe65,
Great and look forward to speaking with you. Your right across the sound from me on the north shore.
Thanks,
Louis
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This is so much fun. I'll bet 15 hours of fun this weekend and I just want more and more. A question for the knowledgeable. I'm pretty sure Louis stated these was 95 or 96 dB sensitive, but I read that both the HO monitors and the xrs HO floor-standers is 99dB. I might be wrong but i want to ask if size of cab can influence on sensitivity, or other factors? Of course there is an opportunity that I remember wrongly
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This is so much fun. I'll bet 15 hours of fun this weekend and I just want more and more. A question for the knowledgeable. I'm pretty sure Louis stated these was 95 or 96 dB sensitive, but I read that both the HO monitors and the xrs HO floor-standers is 99dB. I might be wrong but i want to ask if size of cab can influence on sensitivity, or other factors? Of course there is an opportunity that I remember wrongly
The Alnico speakers were originally listed as 93dB and later revised to be listed as 95dB. Depending on how we measure efficiency, they may be 93 dB (if measured from 100hz to 10khz) or they may be 95dB if measured from 300hz to 10khz. It depends on how specific we are in defining our measurement terms.
If we now add a second driver below 200hz as in the 1.5 way speakers, we are adding an additional 3dB in efficiency below 200hz, but the efficiency will remain unchanged above that frequency.
This can be can be confusing for a number of reasons. First is the difference between speaker efficiency and sensitivity. The former measures the effectiveness of converting electrical power (watts) into acoustical power (dB). The latter measures the effectiveness of converting a voltage signal (e.g., 2.83V) into acoustical power (dB). The distinction is that when speaker impedance is halved and voltage remains unchanged, we are actually delivering twice as much power (+3dB) to the speaker. Simply put: one watt = 2.83V into 8 ohms. However, 2.83v into 4 ohms = 2 watts. In other words, if the 1.5 way speaker is 99dB/2.83v/1m and it measures 4 ohms, it is really a 96dB/w/1m speaker. My feeling is that the Alnico 1.5 way speakers are a legitimate 95-96dB/w/m speaker over its musical frequency range.
The 1.5 way speakers should be the same efficiency/sensitivity over much of their range. However, the larger cabinet may increase bass output. If we are stating efficiency as +-3dB, this increase in bass output may extend the efficiency range a few hz on the bottom end. This is especially true for in-room (i.e.,, real world) efficiency, which is how we actually experience the speaker.
Generally, we [should] measure efficiency using a standard set of terms, e.g., 96dB/w/m +-3dB from 50hz - 15khz. That is a meaningful set of measurements when comparing one speaker with another. That is not saying that this set of measurements define how "loud" we perceive a speaker to be. That involves other psychoacoustic effects besides simple measured efficiency.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160824)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160825)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160826)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160827)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160828)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160829)
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Looks great Jorgen. Looks like you found a satisfactory solution for your amps.
I like the modest proportions of your speakers in the room. It looks like Louis took the Super 7 XRS cabinet off the website. I imagine there is some overlap with the similar Junior 8 XRS. In fact, I would not be surprised to see the RS7 phased out. The 4", 6.5" and 8" drivers seem to have things covered, especially with the HO offerings.
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I have a pair of custom cab floorstanders with 7" Alnico drivers and black Sound Anchor bottoms. They are really cool, but sound wise they can't be compared to HO Alnico version. When I have speakers about 6feet from back wall and sides and no walls behind listening position I get a really wide and deep soundstage. Details are all there. Room is 4,6 m wide. Speakers about 1,5 meters from all wall. 180g version of Amused to death is mindbuggling. Handles all types of music I have tested
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In fact, I would not be surprised to see the RS7 phased out.
The RS7 driver will live on in the Super 7 Monitor MK2. A customer of mine just replaced KEF LS50s with 7 Monitor MK2s and is very happy. Even though Louis' single driver speakers are somewhat overshadowed by the doubles (which are considerably more money), the singles are still a screaming bargain if you compare them to what's out there anywhere near their price.
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Beautiful setup Jorgen. Nicely integrated into your room.
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Great looking setup! I bet it sounds incredible.
What finish are the speakers? Birdseye maple?
I love the rack/stand as well. Do you know where can I find one like it?
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The finish is zebrawood. This batch are a bit different from other zebrawood stuff I have seen, like the cabinet that is build by clic. Available in different sizes I think.
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The RS7 driver will live on in the Super 7 Monitor MK2. A customer of mine just replaced KEF LS50s with 7 Monitor MK2s and is very happy. Even though Louis' single driver speakers are somewhat overshadowed by the doubles (which are considerably more money), the singles are still a screaming bargain if you compare them to what's out there anywhere near their price.
It also occurred to me that the RS7 in the Super 7 Monitor Mk2 makes sense to continue. It is pretty close in price to the Super 3i Monitor and offers more of what the typical buyer looks for (higher power handling, better bass, more sensitivity) as well as satisfying the "bigger is better" market. At the same time, I can really see the Junior 8 XRS cannibalizing sales from both the Super 7 XRS and the Super 3 XRS.
I think it is now possible to hit markets from $700 to $4,700 at $300 to $400 intervals, which strikes me as a smart decision. My personal feelings are that the sweet spots (in their lowest level finishes) are:
- Super 3 Desktop at $695
- Super 7 Monitor Mk 2 at $995
- Super 3 HO Monitor at $1.295
- Compact Alnico Monitor at $1,495
- Junior 8 XRS at $1,795
- Super Alnico HO Monitor at $3,395
- Super Alnico HO XRS at $4,695
Of course, this being audio others will have different preferences. Jorgen's new speakers are a case in point: Super Alnico HO speakers in what is effectively a Junior 8 XRS cabinet. Frankly, I think that one is a winner.
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To me the size is close to perfect. Really tight sound to them. With the speakers and sweetspot in a triangle that is pretty tight and with lots of room all around and especially behind where I sit I have an incredible depth. For ordinary listening they are parked beside sofa.
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Hi guys
I know it’s a stupid question, but have on hand a Rythmik barely used sub. It’s the F12se, not to expensive either. Do you think it will be a good upgrade? I want 2 of them later(I think is wise??) if I like it, but I’m a bit worried it will be more difficult to make it blend in with speakers and maybe f... up the fabulous sound I’m enjoying now.
A little under 50% of new price.
I am doomed to place behind the speakers, very close to one of them, but if I get two later, the second can be placed pretty much as the first one behind the other speaker, behind and inside if understandable
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Hi guys
I know it’s a stupid question, but have on hand a Rythmik barely used sub. It’s the F12se, not to expensive either. Do you think it will be a good upgrade? I want 2 of them later(I think is wise??) if I like it, but I’m a bit worried it will be more difficult to make it blend in with speakers and maybe f... up the fabulous sound I’m enjoying now.
A little under 50% of new price.
I am doomed to place behind the speakers, very close to one of them, but if I get two later, the second can be placed pretty much as the first one behind the other speaker, behind and inside if understandable
Jorgen,
This is along the lines of a similar thread over at Audio Aficionado (Dennis Had Inspire). Your F12se subwoofer is the higher end 12" sealed subwoofer from Rythmik. Howwever, if you wanted to to "upgrade", you can drop in the Danny Ritchie-designed 12" F12G driver with no other modifications. I think the driver is about $200 plus shipping.
If you were looking for a less expensive Rythmik option for stereo subs, the L12 offers similar performance with a bit smaller size and less amplifier flexibility for half the price. The owner of Rythmik has indicated that the L12 and F12G perform almost identically. However, only the F12/F12G has speaker-level inputs. The L12 has line-level inputs that you can adapt pretty easily to speaker level.
Another option is to get the "Custom Installation" versions of the subwoofer from Rythmik and ask Louis to make the cabinetry for you. He's done it for at least one other user and Salk does this using the Rythmik products as well.
I've been using stereo F8 subwoofers with my SAM's and will soon try to integrate them with my new Super 3HO speakers. Rythmik paper-coned subwoofers are fast, accurate and relatively easy to integrate with efficient drivers.
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"However, only the F12/F12G has speaker-level inputs. The L12 has line-level inputs that you can adapt pretty easily to speaker level."
That is news to me. How is that done? Thanks
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I'd give it a shot! :thumb:
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"However, only the F12/F12G has speaker-level inputs. The L12 has line-level inputs that you can adapt pretty easily to speaker level."
That is news to me. How is that done? Thanks
According to Rythmik, you can use an off-the-shelf adapter (cheap, on Amazon but not of "audiophile" quality, if that matters: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-tT5ZYnDQCHl/p_543ADP12/Russound-ADP-1-2-Speaker-level-to-Line-level-Adapter.html) or you can simply make l-pad. There are lots of schematics for L-pad adapters for using speaker amps with headphones. You're essentially running your power amp into near-infinite impedance. You're not moving any current to speak of, but the gain might be too high, hence the l-pad. This is a good guide: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/speaker_to_line.html.
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Pretty seldom these subs are for sale here, and price isn’t to scary. Within my price range. I will try it out I guess. I’m gonna have to read up on how to best connect and set up. I have som deep bass potential and guess it will be a new dimension
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Pretty seldom these subs are for sale here, and price isn’t to scary. Within my price range. I will try it out I guess. I’m gonna have to read up on how to best connect and set up. I have som deep bass potential and guess it will be a new dimension
The F series subwoofers can be connected either line level or speaker level. There are a number of manufacturers (including Omega and REL) who favor speaker level connection.
Additionally, if you like the sub but find the stock aluminum driver does not blend as seamlessly as you would like, you can retrofit the F12G driver for #$179 plus shipping. http://gr-research.com/sw-12-04.aspx
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I think he will provide me with RCA cables. I can use the pass-through out on my amps right?
Thanks for the hint about upgrading the driver. Hope i dont have too. I gave the seller an offer today.
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I think he will provide me with RCA cables. I can use the pass-through out on my amps right?
Thanks for the hint about upgrading the driver. Hope i dont have too. I gave the seller an offer today.
If the RCA out on your amp is after the volume control, yes. I do believe that the Decware amps are set up this way.