Hot tip for Tube rolling in the Candela

bunky · « **on:** 28 Dec 2006, 11:27 pm »

I went on the Triode Electronics website and noticed they have the new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates which are remakes of premium western European NOS tubes that were designed specificaly for audio. i bought a pair and installed them today in my Candela. the performance of the ECC802's compare very favorably to the Amperex Holland ECC186/7316's i have that are the finest sounding 12AU7 tubes that i have ever heard

the JJ/Tesla ECC802's only cost a mere fraction of what the vintage 7316's cost and i recommend that anyone using the Candela should try a pair of the ECC802's. i promise that you wont be disapointed.thanks....WCW III

Eugene2 · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 11:13 pm »

I bought the JJ Tesla tubes you recommended, have not tried them yet as I also picked up some RCA 12AU7A ECC82's. They are great, the sound stage is wall to wall and the preamp took on a whole new dimension of musicality. So good I allowed my wife to play show tunes (Wicked), the layering coming out of my VMPS RM30M's (extremes with TRT caps and OXO) was nothing short of astounding. I have been playing with this stuff a long time and have owned some very expensive equipment, but I do not remember ever enjoying my system this much. The tubes made a huge difference. I was lucky enough to stumble onto the tube depot approx. 10 miles from my house in Orlando, the owner is a very knowledgeable man. He is getting me some instrument grade tubes to try...
I giggle when I see the recommendations for expensive preamps, when I know we have the best kept secret; the mighty Candela!

Candela, Extreme SE, Edge G cd, Shunyata Hydra and Hydra 2, Virtual Dynamics Master cabling, VMPS 30M OXO and larger sub

bunky · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 12:37 am »

Quote from: Eugene2 on 7 Jan 2007, 11:13 pm

I bought the JJ Tesla tubes you recommended, have not tried them yet as I also picked up some RCA 12AU7A ECC82's. They are great, the sound stage is wall to wall and the preamp took on a whole new dimension of musicality. So good I allowed my wife to play show tunes (Wicked), the layering coming out of my VMPS RM30M's (extremes with TRT caps and OXO) was nothing short of astounding. I have been playing with this stuff a long time and have owned some very expensive equipment, but I do not remember ever enjoying my system this much. The tubes made a huge difference. I was lucky enough to stumble onto the tube depot approx. 10 miles from my house in Orlando, the owner is a very knowledgeable man. He is getting me some instrument grade tubes to try...
I giggle when I see the recommendations for expensive preamps, when I know we have the best kept secret; the mighty Candela!

Candela, Extreme SE, Edge G cd, Shunyata Hydra and Hydra 2, Virtual Dynamics Master cabling, VMPS 30M OXO and larger sub

The Mighty Candela is right

it is probably the best kept secret in high end Audio. give the JJ ECC802's a go and let me know what you think.i am having a ball rolling tubes, rediscovering and listening to recordings that have sat dormant in my collection for many years

thanks....WCW III

bpape · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 12:42 am »

Reasonably priced is an understatement. I'm not using a Candella but if the 802's are even as good as some old RCA Black Plates, they're worth every penny and then some.

Bryan

martinr · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 05:16 am »

I bought some Teslas also - should have em by the end of the week.....my stratos monos SE/Candela/Loreleis system is new - has about 90 hours on it - still breaking in and sounding better every day - I'm pretty much blown away by what Im hearing already aa

TjMV3 · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 06:56 pm »

I also took your suggestion and ordered two pair of the new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates. I don't have the Candela, but I do have a pre amp and CD player that utilize 12AU7 tubes.

Thank you for the tip, Bunky! These are nice tubes at a great price.

marvda1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 08:58 pm »

a great 12au7 tube is the rca cleartop which i use in my belles 21a preamp. i have also heard, but not used, that the cryoed radiotechnique 12au7 tube from france is great. upscale audio sales the non-cryoed version of the radiotechnique. and if midrange is your cat's meow then the mullard cv4003 is the ticket.

bunky · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 09:49 pm »

Quote from: marvda1 on 8 Jan 2007, 08:58 pm

a great 12au7 tube is the rca cleartop which i use in my belles 21a preamp. i have also heard, but not used, that the cryoed radiotechnique 12au7 tube from france is great. upscale audio sales the non-cryoed version of the radiotechnique. and if midrange is your cat's meow then the mullard cv4003 is the ticket.

i have a pair of the Mullard CV4003's and they have a very nice midrange but they seem a little too rolled off at the top for my ears in my particular system. thats the beauty of tube rolling,if you experiment you can find the flavor that suits your own personal preference without replacing Gear to get the sound you are looking for

thanks....WCW III

marvda1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 09:54 pm »

the mullard cv4003 came stock with my preamp and that was my thought so i tried the rca cleartop, better bass and highs but the midrange while still good was not as good as the mullards so now i am looking for a tube that has the bass and highs of the rca cleartop but midrange of the mullard.
marvin

TjMV3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 11:02 pm »

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT OWN or HAVE THE Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp!!!

The new JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates are nice tubes. I know some will snub their noses at their price tag, but they sound real nice.

I also have a Mullard CV4003 and CV4004, and I like them a lot.

(Disclaimer: The Mullard CV4004 tube is a 12AX7/ECC83 tube. It is NOT to be used with the Odyssey Candela.)

WARNING: Do NOT use any 12ax7/ECC83 Tubes with the Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp !!!! NO DO!! NOPE! NEVER DO IT! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Nunca! Jamais! Machen Sie Es Nicht

This has been a Public Service message. Thank you. We now return you to the your regular discussion

But the CV4003 sounds much better in my office system, with speakers that lean a little toward the forward......slightly brighter side, than in my two channel/HT system (Living Room) with my Wharfedale Opus 2.

I've also recently bought and tried (Not In the Candela Pre Amp, a different Pre Amp) the new Tungsol 12AX7 (New Sensor Corportation, not NOS) and these are some real nice tubes, too. I'm really enjoying these.

(Disclaimer: The new Tung-Sol tube is a 12AX7/ECC83 tube. It is NOT to be used with the Odyssey Candela.

WARNING: Do NOT use any 12ax7/ECC83 Tubes with the Odyssey Audio Candela Pre Amp !!!! NO DO!! NOPE! NEVER DO IT! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Nunca! Jamais! Machen Sie Es Nicht

WEEZ · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 11:09 pm »

I realize that tubes can be very curcuit dependent; bit another one to try would be Phillips JAN 5814A's. Very low noise and microphonics; and only cost around $16 a piece. Not bad for NOS....

FWIW

AlexG · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 04:42 am »

Quote

I've also recently bought and tried the new Tungsol 12AX7 (New Sensor Corportation, not NOS) and these are some real nice tubes, too. I'm really enjoying these

This thread is specific to the Candela 12AU7/ECC82 specified tubes ...

Please don't even think in inserting a 12AX7/ECC83 in place of the 12AU7/ECC82 used in the Candela Preamp... serious and most likely fatal damage will occur ...and will completely void the warranty on the unit!

Thank you,

Alex

Jim N. · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 06:16 am »

Always check with your preamp builder before subbing tubes. The 12AT7, 12AU7 and 12AX7 are not identical despite being 9 pin.

From Wikipedia:

* 12AD7 (October 10, 1955 - 225mA heater - low hum)
* 12AT7 (May 20, 1947, dual 6AB4 ɥ62 - gain of 60)
* 12AU7 (October 18, 1946 dual 6C4 ɥ17 gain of 19)
* 12AV7 (February 14, 1950 - dual 6BC4 ɥ48 gain of 41)
* 12AX7 (September 25, 1947 - miniature 6SL7 ɥ100 gain of 100)
* 12AY7 (December 7 1948 - ɥ48 gain of 45 for audio preamp use)
* 12AZ7 (March 2, 1951 225mA heater, ɥ 60)
* 12DT7 (ɥ100)
* 12DF7 (ɥ100 low microphonics)

Big difference in gain between 12AU7 and 12AX7. I tried using a 5814 (12AU7 variant) in my TAD150 (which came with a 12AT7) and wound up with power past 12 o'clock to get a decent volume from my Stratos Stereo Extreme and Lorelei's and the sound quality suffered. Paul @ BizzyBee said they could handle a12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7 and their military variants but the gain makes a big difference.

TjMV3 · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 01:38 pm »

Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.

I was merely stating, as a change of subject, that those new Tung-Sol 12AX7 longplates tubes are nice tubes.

I'll go back and add a disclaimer to my original post.

lazydays · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ on 8 Jan 2007, 11:09 pm

I realize that tubes can be very curcuit dependent; bit another one to try would be Phillips JAN 5814A's. Very low noise and microphonics; and only cost around $16 a piece. Not bad for NOS....

FWIW

I found two quad sets of these in my tube stash yesterday. Have no idea where or when I got them either.
gary

lazydays · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 06:43 pm »

those tubes are for either my Conrad Johnson preamp or my 40 watt tube amp. I also found a couple quad sets of EL34's and several 5751's in matched pairs.
I have two pairs of Hammond tubes for the candela if an when the urge occurres. I that same stash was about a couple dozen 1% metal film resistors for that same amp. I am a pack rat as you can tell by now.
And while on the subject of Odyssey equipment and tubes; let add that my brother came over a few days back, and listened to the new amps and preamp.
He was stunned! Think this is the first time he's listened to tubes, and a good turntable. Called me up the next day, and asked me how much that Candela cost. And, I might add that he said quite bluntly that there's not way my sacd player's gonna keep up with a good turntable. Just smiled and said to myself "I told you so!"
gary

AlexG · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Jan 2007, 12:35 pm »

Quote

Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.

Fully understood... I just wanted to make certain to the fact that both tubes are not the same.

Please keep in mind that there are some new Candela owners, or about to become new owners that this will be their first experience with vaccum tube based units .... and we want for them to learn, feel comfortable and enjoy the magic of how music sounds through tube based units.

Thanks,
Alex

lazydays · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jan 2007, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: AlexG on 10 Jan 2007, 12:35 pm

Quote
Sheesh, I wasn't implying that the 12AX7 be used in the Candela or any other piece of gear that is designed for the 12AU7.

Fully understood... I just wanted to make certain to the fact that both tubes are not the same.

Please keep in mind that there are some new Candela owners, or about to become new owners that this will be their first experience with vaccum tube based units .... and we want for them to learn, feel comfortable and enjoy the magic of how music sounds through tube based units.

Thanks,
Alex

I did take the plunge and swapped out the tubes in my CD player yesterday afternoon with GE 5751 black plates. Been burning them in for almost 24 hours now. Guess I'll try the hammond tubes in the Candela later in the week, as the hum as came back to haunt me again (not nearly as pronounced as before).
gary

rosconey · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Jan 2007, 10:25 pm »

also for the newby's-
dont take your candela in the bath with you either

been there done that

i changed my mind about the cbs /hytron tubes also-
so you can forget about them and just plain avoid them-yes avoid like the plague -stay far away-dont even think about trying them aa

for what ever reason the system sounds better today than ever

Eugene2 · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Jan 2007, 04:50 am »

Bunky, put the JJ Tesla's in tonight, very nice indeed! I was listening to a very well recorded CD Bill Frisell Blues Dream. If I did not have the RCA 12AU7A ECC82 cleartops I would stick with this tube, but the cleartops are outstanding. The opening guitar pluck made my jaw drop with the cleartops (he was in the room). The Tesla's sounded slightly high fi (probably because the balance became slightly brighter) in comparison. Try the RCA's if you cannot find them try the Tube Depot in Orlando (25.00 ea.)he had a few sets. It also convinced me to stay with my current setup it is that good. If you like a good demo recording with very realistic sound try Bill Frisell's CD, the music may have to grow on you...