Anyone else spending all your money on repair and none on lipstick?

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ctviggen

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There's a saying "putting lipstick on a pig" or "polishing a turd".  If you look at basically every home improvement show, that's what they are doing: making the home look better, but not changing anything fundamental about the home.

We bought a large house built in 2000 because it had an in law apartment that could support my mom's 9 cats at the time.  This house is big, but very poorly built, everything is cheap.

Case in point: the windows and trim.  I went to find parts for the windows and learned the windows were from a manufacturer of cheap windows, now out of business. When they put in the wood trim for the windows, they cut the vertical pieces but never primed the cuts. What this meant was that any water that got between the cut and sill became rotted.  Many of the window trims were rotted, which the owners of course "repaired" by using some kind of wood repair + paint, so we couldn't see it during inspection. 

Anyway, we've replaced all the large windows and most of the small (complete replacement, windows and trim, trim with "plastic" so it shouldn't rot), but still have 10 smaller windows to replace (a large house, with in law).  This was thousands of dollars.

We've also had to replace (some of these are maintenance):

- two french doors (rotted trim, no longer was near air tight), replaced with sliding doors;
- one entry door to the in law;
- entire cooling system, went with heat pumps to get both heating and cooling; looked at geothermal, but was too expensive + needed a whole house generator (another 20k or so);
- well pump;
- entire water system, with well tank, soft water, and iron mitigation;
- outdoor lights (which need to be replaced again due to sun damage);
- etc.

The front walkway was made by taking large rocks/boulders they found while building the house and putting them into the ground.  (This is New England -- there are always rocks, which is why you see so many rock walls.)  We're finally having this done, as we can't keep up with the upkeep, and we walk in the grass, not on the "walkway".  Another 10K+.

We still have the following that need to be done: 10 windows, the front door (trim completely rotted, looks horrendous), another door into a second foyer (yet another cheap door, seals failing), roof. I'd love to add more insulation to the attics (main house + in law), but can't ever get the money to do this.

Had ideas of building a home theater/listening room in the unfinished basement.  Redoing bathrooms, maybe kitchen.  All of that will likely never be done, as we will continue to spend money just to repair what's already bad.

Anyone else stuck in a continual loop of spending money on the "bones" of their house, and not on "lipstick"?

JLM

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Ah the joys of home ownership: effort; money; and worry. 

Mow the lawn, shovel the snow, rake the leaves, clean/dust/vacuum, touch up/repaint, make minor repairs. 

Replace on average one or more major appliances/systems per year.  (Do the math, they're typically designed to last 10 years, and we have dozens of appliances and systems per house.) 

What about roof repairs, foundation leaks, and infestations?

Houses aren't the simple structures they were 100 years ago.

Letitroll98

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This past summer a medium sized tornado hit my old neighborhood of Mulica Hill, NJ, an area noted for the prolific rise of McMansion developments since 2000 and some unfortunate folks had their million dollar homes deconstructed.  They blew apart like mobile homes.  Older homes knocked off of their foundations had less damage damage to the structure of the house than these cheaply built McMansions.  I'm guessing there's a lot of shoddy construction and weak designs on newer homes around the country.  Polish the pig, sell it during this sellers market, and buy an older home or at least one where you know the reputation of the builder.

Bemopti123

There are two ways of approaching home maintenance, either knowing when to draw the line of what must be done and what one wants done.

 Windows, roofs, heating/cooling systems and other basic thing that would isolate a home, I believe are a must, especially considering that there is a prediction of increase price for heating in the US due to increase price of gas, electric and oil.


But the issue with fixes in general is what Letiroll stated about the shoddy workmanship that was used when building the house. 

If the workmanship was that compromised and hidden, and the current owner was unable to see what was behind the walls,  regardless of how much is spent to remediate an obvious problem, the problem or problems might resurface in a different place. 

I live in a 1930 built shoebox of a house in NYC.  It was a utilitarian build, not many luxuries but what I noticed was the supporting beams, massive cedar beams used for load bearing.  The walls were once plaster with hardly any insulation within so we had put up new walls and insulate .  We do not have central air or cooling, it is heated with a steam gas powered boiler, not much to do here but to service it regularly until it develops a crack on the cast iron tank which means a replacement. These boilers last between 20-25 years so I am keeping my fingers cross it does not happen this Winter. 

Being a home owner is an expensive proposition, but things can be done a little at the time BUT, I would forgo anything related with upgrading/what is not necessary until this cursed pandemic is over...there is too much price gouging and good contractors are booked for months.

PS:  My electric circuits from the 1930-40s...they would need an update, but I did add some more circuits and an extra panel for more breakers, not elegant, but it works for now.   





« Last Edit: 17 Oct 2021, 02:01 pm by Bemopti123 »

Early B.

Everyone says, "buy a house -- it's a great investment." What they never tell you is that a home drains your cash. A house is like a wife and kids -- always dipping in your wallet. It's a vicious cycle. I warn new homeowners that their cash will be depleted with a home. If your home was built in the past 35 years, there's a good chance that it wasn't well constructed and you'll end up rebuilding your home over time.

For many low and moderate-income families, I'm not convinced that buying a home is worth the time and money anymore. There may be better options for creating generational wealth.
   

Peter J

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I look at it a little differently, I suppose, but then my little spread is 56 years old. I was 8 when it was built. I'm the fifth owner in that time and it has some interesting history/features.

 The only way I can keep it up the way I want and make improvements is to do most of the work myself. Honestly though, I like that process of planning and execution, thinking myself more a steward than a homeowner. I imagine and have told many, "the house is glad I'm here". Yes, it's money and labor intensive, but would be beyond my means were I to hire it all out and I find the whole thing satisfying.

When I was remodeling, I saw way to much of what you're describing. Massive, sometimes pretentious, homes fraught with basic construction problems. As I see it, we're kind of a victims of our own desire. Lots of technology available in the last decade for making a better structure, but if it can't be seen, it's worth almost nothing to the average buyer. Builders only build what they can sell, it's a business after all. We demand the wrong things of our housing, IMHO, and now we have 50 year structure life expectancy as opposed to 100 years being the benchmark years ago. The trend troubles me, but by and large, I don't see it changing direction in a big way any time soon.

jd3

I’ve owned 2 homes in the last 40 years that I had to pour money into due to various problems I didn’t know about.  The last house was very nice…original house was built in 2000, added on to in 2011.  All very high end finishes.  My wife loved the place.  Had a home inspection...no problems noted.  Only problem was I found out the guy who owned it did all his own work.  It all passed inspection, but I don’t know how.  The place had 2 HVAC systems, the original one and a boiler system for in floor heat on the addition.  Hot water boiler also was the water heater..which wasn’t made to do that.  The original HVAC installer rigged it to work but it blew out frequently due to high pressure.  $4.5 k to fix that.  The addition had wall mount Mitsubishi air conditioners.  One in the bedroom went out.  HVAC tech said can’t fix..no parts.  He said the manufacturers come out with new models every year and they all have different parts.  He had his phone on speaker when he was talking to the distributor.  No parts available.  I figured I’d replace the bad unit.  Nope, you can’t.  Whole system had to be replaced ($5k) including compressor because it’s not compatible with the new units!!  Roof leaked due to non-existent flashing around 2nd story windows, etc, etc.  I told my wife we need to cut our losses and sell.  I did fix the issues, but I was worried about what was next.   I ended up leaving my HT system there with the buyer in lieu of fixing the air conditioning.  I look at houses as commodities.  Values go up and down.  Who knows what the value will be when you go to sell.  A home was always the long term investment everyone wanted.  I agree with Early B.  They’re not anymore.

WGH

Sounds like you reached your breaking point, you just haven't realized it yet. Time to sell to someone with a lot more money because the repair cycle will never end.
Unless you are really in love with the house and neighborhood and expect a big raise, bonus or inheritance in the future.

Were all the in-wall water lines replaced when you wrote "entire water system"? I hope so. The old Polybutylene water lines, which preceded PEX as a flexible plastic piping material, always fails which is why it is no longer used.

When I was looking to buy a house 9 years ago I saw a lot of disasters waiting to happen. Since I have been in construction since 1972 I knew what to expect so I bought a house built in 1950 that needed everything done. Gutted it and rebuilt with quality and durability in mind. My house is also much smaller than any of my friends but it is paid for, an important point for me since I recently retired.

 

genjamon

I wish most peopled thought about this stuff when buying houses, but they don’t. We’ve had our house on the market since July, and have had a couple dozen tours without a single offer. All the criticisms are that they all expect it to be completely updated at the price point. But they don’t recognize that the house is built like a tank and has all the major systems visible and built with very high quality construction. No mystery problems in the house. And they get to have that confidence and spend their money making it look the way they want when then purchase. But I guess folks would rather me just hire a flipper and “update” it for them with superficial updates that look decent but aren’t very high quality.

Early B.

I wish most peopled thought about this stuff when buying houses, but they don’t. We’ve had our house on the market since July, and have had a couple dozen tours without a single offer. All the criticisms are that they all expect it to be completely updated at the price point. But they don’t recognize that the house is built like a tank and has all the major systems visible and built with very high quality construction. No mystery problems in the house. And they get to have that confidence and spend their money making it look the way they want when then purchase. But I guess folks would rather me just hire a flipper and “update” it for them with superficial updates that look decent but aren’t very high quality.

Give buyers what they want -- new appliances, granite countertops, and an island kitchen.
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2021, 01:09 am by Early B. »

Jack the cat

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Beats the heck out of an apartment/condo/town house, I don't do well with neighbors on the other side of the wall.....

Digi-G

I agree.  I've done apartment living and couldn't wait to get a house to have my own space.  Can't imagine going back to an apartment or even a condo.  There are definitely some costs, sometimes hidden, that go with a house.  Al in all, for me, it's worth it.

That said, my house is over 50 years old and think it has good 'bones'.  Previous owners added attic insulation and replaced all the windows.  I've replaced the roof and the furnace and A/C unit (all of which were old when I moved in 15 years ago!).  I feel pretty lucky, house-wise.

My step-son just bought a newly built home a couple of months ago.  His first.  He loved it when he first moved in but  now realizes how cheaply built it is and that some of the work is shoddy.  Fit and finish issues, wavy drywall, cheap paint, etc.  Things you start to notice after you've been there a little while.

One positive thing I did notice.  Every room had a small, cheap LED light fixture mounted on the ceiling.  Which meant it was pre-wired for the light fixture and had a wall-mounted light switch.  Older houses don't always have that - my best friend just added a light fixture and had to run/drop a line for a new wall switch in a dining room.  A lot of work.

mick wolfe

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I've owned seven houses in the last 50+ years. Yes, there are headaches for sure, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Let's just say maybe my timing has been good. In regard to many of today's buyers, they want a total turn key, no hassle house right down to the paint color on the walls. In other words, they are unrealistically searching for the house the Property Bros. just finished renovating. Far different buyer dynamic than it was just a few decades back.
Maintenance....no house is going to be free of maintenance issues and it's best to deal with them immediately and not let them linger. Never hurts to do preventive maintenance along the way as well.

Tyson

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I have a 1954 split ranch house that is exterior brick over a concrete interior.  This place is freaking solid.  But it's not particularly well insulated.  The bedrooms upstairs in particular tend to be much cooler than the rest of the house during winter, and much warmer than the rest of the house during the summer.  I've had an energy audit done and the overall shape of the house is 'not bad'. 

I got really lucky because when I moved to this neighborhood 6 years ago, it was very much a 'working class' neighborhood.  However it was also (IMO) at the most ideal spot in Denver.  10 minutes west of downtown, close to 2 major highways for heading to the mountains (or the other direction to the airport), 1 block from the nicest lake in Denver with a view of downtown across the water.  And people are starting to figure out how great this area is because they are plowing down all the really crappy houses and putting up giant mansions in their place.  Some of these old places were straight up crack houses.  Seriously, you could walk around them and see tons of discarded needles and other crap like that.  Luckily those houses have either been completely rehab'd and very nicely updated to a premium house, or like I said, they got scraped and a super nice mansion put there instead.  House values for the rest of us have increase massively as a result.

But, most importantly for me is that it's not an apartment or a condo, which is what I lived in before.  That means I don't share any walls with any neighbors so I can play my music as loud as I like and it doesn't bother anyone.  That ALONE is worth any amount of hassle from the rest of the house. 

Big Red Machine

We have been on our current domicile for 25 months and done this to an 18 year old house:

Remodeled laundry room - November 2019
Remodeled upstairs family room – November 2019
Remodeled kitchen - December 2019 > March 2020
Garage cabinets and countertop – March 2020
Invisible pet fence – March 2020
20 amp tool circuit in garage – April 2020
Ethernet wiring – June 2020
Replaced screened porch foundation – August 2020
New air conditioners – December 2020
12V landscape lighting – April 2021


I still need a new roof, maybe in 5 years.

But I have a nice yard for the dogs, and 3 rooms upstairs for all my toys - audio, HT, and drums, now that it's just 2 of us and 3 dogs.

I'd like to put in a pool, but they are beau coup expensive.

So some lipstick, but mostly needed updates.

JimJ

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Bought a place with about a decade of deferred maintenance (was rented by my ex - long story). The kitchen is totally '80s, but I'm leaving it for now. Replaced most of the appliances, repainted/repaired the deck and porch, had the driveway re-stoned. Roof will be next year.

Currently putting money aside for an outbuilding, it's the single biggest expense I knew I had coming - looking at a 24x24 shop at least, 220V/120V, AC, the whole deal.



The housing market in central NC is nuts enough that I could sink $80K into the place and still probably come out ahead in 10 years.

jaylevine

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Well this thread caught my eye re: we live in a 145 year old brick townhome in the heart of Richmond. So far in the past two years we spent the following:

1. $45k re-factoring and repairing our back yard area (replacing large fence/wooden rolling gate with automatic door, repointing / waterproofing 100 year old brick wall, demolishing and re-pouring the concrete patio, re-fitting gas lines, etc. etc. etc. etc...).
2. $15k on a new roof
3. $8k on a new floor for our (original) wood front porch
4. $18k on repointing 50% of the side of our house

This is just for the repairs, no lipstick. We also did the two interior bathrooms in 2019 (full back to the bones renovations), before the exterior stuff reared its ugly head. Won't bore you with the details of those lipstick renovations, but suffice it to say it set me back nearly twice as much as all of the exterior spend in 2020/2021 (wife was in charge of those projects).

I'm retired, so all this cash out the door has put a serious crimp in my discretionary audio spending....

mcgsxr

Having lived in the same home for 16 years now, I have done just about everything on the OP's list except windows.  Second owners and the home is around 26 years old.

In addition to that list we have done a backyard rehab (posted on here), a basement finishing (posted on here), a kitchen reno (don't recall if I posted that here), and an emergency repair to a bathroom that leaked down into our living room.

All in I am sure I have spent 100K here, in addition to paying down the mortgage.  It's all part of the home ownership game I feel.  It's no fun when the boring maintenance stuff impacts the more fun stuff (go see my comments in my post about my basement budget getting killed for 9K when we had to replace both our laundry team AND our furnace/AC during that planned project...).

Still happy we did it all.

rollo

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There's a saying "putting lipstick on a pig" or "polishing a turd".  If you look at basically every home improvement show, that's what they are doing: making the home look better, but not changing anything fundamental about the home.

We bought a large house built in 2000 because it had an in law apartment that could support my mom's 9 cats at the time.  This house is big, but very poorly built, everything is cheap.

Case in point: the windows and trim.  I went to find parts for the windows and learned the windows were from a manufacturer of cheap windows, now out of business. When they put in the wood trim for the windows, they cut the vertical pieces but never primed the cuts. What this meant was that any water that got between the cut and sill became rotted.  Many of the window trims were rotted, which the owners of course "repaired" by using some kind of wood repair + paint, so we couldn't see it during inspection. 

Anyway, we've replaced all the large windows and most of the small (complete replacement, windows and trim, trim with "plastic" so it shouldn't rot), but still have 10 smaller windows to replace (a large house, with in law).  This was thousands of dollars.

We've also had to replace (some of these are maintenance):

- two french doors (rotted trim, no longer was near air tight), replaced with sliding doors;
- one entry door to the in law;
- entire cooling system, went with heat pumps to get both heating and cooling; looked at geothermal, but was too expensive + needed a whole house generator (another 20k or so);
- well pump;
- entire water system, with well tank, soft water, and iron mitigation;
- outdoor lights (which need to be replaced again due to sun damage);
- etc.

The front walkway was made by taking large rocks/boulders they found while building the house and putting them into the ground.  (This is New England -- there are always rocks, which is why you see so many rock walls.)  We're finally having this done, as we can't keep up with the upkeep, and we walk in the grass, not on the "walkway".  Another 10K+.

We still have the following that need to be done: 10 windows, the front door (trim completely rotted, looks horrendous), another door into a second foyer (yet another cheap door, seals failing), roof. I'd love to add more insulation to the attics (main house + in law), but can't ever get the money to do this.

Had ideas of building a home theater/listening room in the unfinished basement.  Redoing bathrooms, maybe kitchen.  All of that will likely never be done, as we will continue to spend money just to repair what's already bad.

Anyone else stuck in a continual loop of spending money on the "bones" of their house, and not on "lipstick"?

 You got a lemon back then. Get out of it and move on. Repair costs will overwhelm you. The Equity is in the land not dwelling. I know thisis harsh however a poorly constructed Home will eat your money alive. Best of luck in your decision.

charles