AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Home Theater and Video => Topic started by: ajzepp on 27 Apr 2019, 05:15 am
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I was looking through some of the older topics and posts, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion on Atmos-type rigs and rooms. I recently decided to convert an extra room into a theater room. Then I completely lost my mind after I finished painting and decided to consider at Atmos configuration.
If anyone currently has, or has spent time in, an HT system using any of these three concepts, I'd really be interested to hear about it. Do you feel it's more trouble than it's worth? Is it the best thing since sliced bread or the pet rock? Do you find it gimmicky and overrated?
*Disclaimer* Im aware of the immersion thread, but Im more interested in experiences with these formats, primarily for movies...i.e. not so much for music listening.
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I just installed 5.1.4 (Atmos) in our living room with an Anthem MRX 720 and suite of GoldenEar in ceiling and in wall speakers. I don't own a BR disc player, so no discs to sample, just a Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Xfinity, and the native streaming apps for Netflix, Amazon Prime, Vudu on our LG OLED C8.
All I can say is it was incredibly frustrating to even get a valid Atmos source and content to test with. I couldn't even get Vudu to cough up the "The Dolby Atmos Experience" demo bundle, despite being able to see it in the Vudu app in a browser. It wouldn't let me save it to a wishlist. No idea why that is, but when I searched from within Vudu it didn't even show up. It's really a terrible app. I rented "Gravity" on Prime Video, which I thought was Atmos, but the Roku, ATV, and native Prime app on the LG all showed "Dolby Digital+ 3/2" on my Anthem display. Eventually the Netflix movie "Outlaw King" showed up as "Dolby Atmos" on the Anthem receiver. Ugh.
I don't want to make a "hobby" of making this work seamlessly, just watch some movies with decent sound. It really shouldn't be this hard :duh:
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Tom:
You just basically illustrated my biggest concern. I've never been one to buy a lot of movies. I'm mainly a renter, so part of the reason why I'm considering upgrading is because I saw that Netflix, Vudu and a few others had Atmos options. Then I saw that it was only on certain devices, so that became a bit more complex. Im with you 100% on not wanting the logistics of this thing to become more of a hobby (or maybe "anti-hobby" lol) than the enjoyment of it.
I have an Anthem 520 b/c I never expected to use Atmos in the room I had my gear in, so I'm envious that you have a 720. Im looking into a trade up option with my dealer because I love the 520 so much. Anthem receivers are fantastic!
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Thanks ajzeep I am looking into this subject for the first time as well. SO I'm just going to watch what sage advice floats in here, :popcorn:
Maybe we can summon Witchdoctor he's a huge fan of dolby atmos
I think it sounds worth a try, it's important to get the receivers that are "auro 3d sound" and "dolby upscale to atmos" capable you want the top end receivers that have those special chips, they are the bread and butter of this platform if I'm not mistaken.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150038.0
a quick topic search found this great thread^
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193942)
Kept it simple with the upfiring Elac speakers. I found the ceiling speakers were too close to your ears with no dispersion to give any effect.
5.1.2 right now and it's decent. I track my discs with which ones are Atmos and 4K in my Excel doc.
I'm using a very low end Yamaha receiver right now.
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BRM: Beautiful!! You just can't beat the look of a clean theater room. Very nice indeed!
Sam-Fi: I had no idea there was a "dolby upscale to Atmos" option...thanks! That Auro 3D and the "voice of God channel" are quite intriguing for sure. I love that we have different codecs hitting the marketplace. Although I sometimes miss the good old fashioned simplicity of basic DD/DTS, it's exciting to see the new options being implemented. And thanks for the thread link...checking that out now
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I just installed 5.1.4 (Atmos) in our living room with an Anthem MRX 720 and suite of GoldenEar in ceiling and in wall speakers. I don't own a BR disc player, so no discs to sample, just a Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Xfinity, and the native streaming apps for Netflix, Amazon Prime, Vudu on our LG OLED C8.
All I can say is it was incredibly frustrating to even get a valid Atmos source and content to test with. I couldn't even get Vudu to cough up the "The Dolby Atmos Experience" demo bundle, despite being able to see it in the Vudu app in a browser. It wouldn't let me save it to a wishlist. No idea why that is, but when I searched from within Vudu it didn't even show up. It's really a terrible app. I rented "Gravity" on Prime Video, which I thought was Atmos, but the Roku, ATV, and native Prime app on the LG all showed "Dolby Digital+ 3/2" on my Anthem display. Eventually the Netflix movie "Outlaw King" showed up as "Dolby Atmos" on the Anthem receiver. Ugh.
I don't want to make a "hobby" of making this work seamlessly, just watch some movies with decent sound. It really shouldn't be this hard :duh:
I use a Sony UHPH1 in the HT and a Roku tv by TCL in the mancave. Both stream without a hitch. Is your display 4K capable? If it isn't try the latest Sony 4K BRD player.
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Thanks ajzeep I am looking into this subject for the first time as well. SO I'm just going to watch what sage advice floats in here, :popcorn:
Maybe we can summon Witchdoctor he's a huge fan of dolby atmos
I think it sounds worth a try, it's important to get the receivers that are "auro 3d sound" and "dolby upscale to atmos" capable you want the top end receivers that have those special chips, they are the bread and butter of this platform if I'm not mistaken.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150038.0
a quick topic search found this great thread^
I think HDMI 2.2 can "see" if you have a 4K display. If you don't it doesn't serve up the 4k/atmos content. My 4K TCL/Roku display not only serves up the content, it displays icons next to the movies and identifies them as HDR,Dolby Vision or 4K. Nearly ALL of the 4K streaming content has an atmos stream.
What I find is that sometimes the atmos mixes are not to my taste. By flipping over to the auromatic upmixer you can dial in how much immersion effect you want. I like to dial it down a little for music and up a little for movies.
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Whoa, Witchdoctor, are you saying that if I only have a 1080p projector, I won't be able to stream Atmos unless I upgrade to a 4k display? Or am I overtired and misreading what you wrote? I definitely am not ready to upgrade the projector yet. Is that a deal breaker? I didn't even figure the two would be intertwined. :duh:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193942)
Kept it simple with the upfiring Elac speakers. I found the ceiling speakers were too close to your ears with no dispersion to give any effect.
5.1.2 right now and it's decent. I track my discs with which ones are Atmos and 4K in my Excel doc.
I'm using a very low end Yamaha receiver right now.
Looks great, was it a chore moving in all the recliners?
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Whoa, Witchdoctor, are you saying that if I only have a 1080p projector, I won't be able to stream Atmos unless I upgrade to a 4k display? Or am I overtired and misreading what you wrote? I definitely am not ready to upgrade the projector yet. Is that a deal breaker? I didn't even figure the two would be intertwined. :duh:
You need to hack it. In my experience the streaming services will serve up atmos and 4K as a bundle. Because of DRM the service can't "see" the 4K hdmi 2.2 on the other end it just hides that content most of the time.
My main HT uses a PJ that is 1080P. Open Netflix and you see nada atmos/4k content. My mancave has a 4K display. Open netflix and the 4K/DV/HDR content is easily identifiable.
In the main HT I rely primarily on my immersive upmixers. I have Auro,Dolby Surround, and DTS Neo-X.
In the man cave I generally just play the atmos mix. If I am playing a disc that has an atmos mix I can play it in either theater, NP.
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You need to hack it. In my experience the streaming services will serve up atmos and 4K as a bundle. Because of DRM the service can't "see" the 4K hdmi 2.2 on the other end it just hides that content most of the time.
My main HT uses a PJ that is 1080P. Open Netflix and you see nada atmos/4k content. My mancave has a 4K display. Open netflix and the 4K/DV/HDR content is easily identifiable.
In the main HT I rely primarily on my immersive upmixers. I have Auro,Dolby Surround, and DTS Neo-X.
In the man cave I generally just play the atmos mix. If I am playing a disc that has an atmos mix I can play it in either theater, NP.
So Auro 3D is an upmixer then? Compatible with what, just surround mixes? Or also stereo?
I know what you mean about the atmos and HDR lighting up. I have a 4k tv in the living room and I see the labels all the time. I figured I could just rent, as an example, the UHD version of a rental from VUDU, and it would just display in 1080p but still stream the atmos audio codec. Now Im thinking my whole plan may be fubar.
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Well, VUDU just confirmed it...you're exactly right, Witchdoctor. Wow. I'm shocked by this. I had no idea. I'm really glad you chimed in. You saved me a lot of money lol. I guess I'll just wait until I can upgrade to a 4k projector before I invest in atmos.
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I didn't realize this either. Weird. Maybe one-day but I'm currently happy with my tv even though it's 1080p it has good color and I just don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Honestly one-day I dream of upgrading to a 5k oled, etc.
I have always prioritized a 2 channel for music systems anyways. I'm still a believer in vinyl.
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Im with you, Sam-Fi...I love my projector, and it's only three years old, so just cant see myself dropping several grand on a 4k projector when this one works great with a beautiful image.
Sooo...how bout that NFL draft, guys? :lol:
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My TV is latest LG OLEDC8 so it's 4k and handles Atmos, DTS, etc. just fine. So is that related to why I can't see, for example, "The Dolby Atmos Experience" bundle in Vudu when I search on the Roku? I don't think it worked on the native Vudu app on the display either though. What I ended up doing is running Netflix on the TV instead of Roku, which is fed to the Anthem, then out to the TV. With the native app on the TV, Anthem and LG TV seem to chat through the HDMI ARC and CEC.
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I'm putting together a system for my dad in his new home. I'm thinking of giving him my old Crown K2 amp to drive 2 subs. But my amp has no way to adjust phase on the subs. Is that something that can be done on these new Atmos receivers? I know I can do crossover and level from the receiver but I'm not sure about phase.
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I'm putting together a system for my dad in his new home. I'm thinking of giving him my old Crown K2 amp to drive 2 subs. But my amp has no way to adjust phase on the subs. Is that something that can be done on these new Atmos receivers? I know I can do crossover and level from the receiver but I'm not sure about phase.
Can't speak for other Atmos receivers, but the Anthem "Genesis" version of ARC claims to do so, of course, at a very high price.
https://hometheaterreview.com/anthem-announces-the-next-generation-of-room-correction-arc-genesis/ (https://hometheaterreview.com/anthem-announces-the-next-generation-of-room-correction-arc-genesis/)
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Their are a couple of workarounds for streaming atmos content. One is to get an HD Fury:
https://hdfury.com/product/integral-2/
the other is to get a Sony 4K Blueray player. The Sony player hasseparate HDMI ports out, one for video and one for audio:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-E1h1LnKfleG/shopsearch/sony_4k_blu_ray_player.html?XVINQ=BI3&XVVER=VQ2&awcr=76759703418311&awdv=c&awkw=sony%204k%20blue%20ray&awmt=e&awnw=s&awat=&awug=65739
My PJ is 1080P and I mostly use the upscalers in lieu of native atmos. I can play atmos content with blue ray discs but some of the atmos mixes are lacking compared to the upmixes with auromatic.
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Well, VUDU just confirmed it...you're exactly right, Witchdoctor. Wow. I'm shocked by this. I had no idea. I'm really glad you chimed in. You saved me a lot of money lol. I guess I'll just wait until I can upgrade to a 4k projector before I invest in atmos.
I think the upmixers sound MUCH better than 5.1 or 7.1, no need to wait for a new PJ. If you want native atmos streams you can checkout the workarounds I posted.
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So Auro 3D is an upmixer then? Compatible with what, just surround mixes? Or also stereo?
I know what you mean about the atmos and HDR lighting up. I have a 4k tv in the living room and I see the labels all the time. I figured I could just rent, as an example, the UHD version of a rental from VUDU, and it would just display in 1080p but still stream the atmos audio codec. Now Im thinking my whole plan may be fubar.
Auro 3D is a codec and there are some BRD available in Auro 3D. The Aoro 3D upmixer is called Auromatic and it can be used with everything.
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I think the upmixers sound MUCH better than 5.1 or 7.1, no need to wait for a new PJ. If you want native atmos streams you can checkout the workarounds I posted.
Thanks man, you rock...really appreciate the help!
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When you play an Atmos native mix it is a toss up. Some of the mixes might use the height channels for just a few scenes like a flyover or a rain storm. Other mixes seem like a bit overdone. The upmixers do a pretty good job. Most receivers come with 2 or 3 of them and you can experiment to find the ones most suited to the content you are playing and your room. Auromatic is the only upmixer that let's you adjust it. All of them sound better than standard surround sound. Check out this reviewers opinion of atmos mixes vs the auromatic upmixer on page 3 of the review:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf
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Upgrading to immersive audio is NOT expensive anymore. I was using a $4000 front end in my man cave (Sunfire TG3 processor and a Carver AV 505 amp.) I was addicted to it. Then I picked up a 4K 55 inch TCL TV for less than $300. I decided to break down and get an HDMI/4K capable receiver. You can get a 9 channel receiver these days for less than $500. I moved the Sunfire/Carver setup to a room that is music only. I think the receiver sounds great, and also added room correction and DTS PlayFi capabilities.
My point is don't think this has to be $$$$ investment.
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I decided to pull the trigger on Atmos. Putting my Anthem 520 up for sale last night was like tossing a cow into piranha infested waters. It sold in like 15 min, and I got several inquiries after that. I loved my 520, so I'm going to jump into the 720 since I have an extra multi-channel amp sitting around looking bored. It doesn't have Auro-3D, but I've always loved DTS in general, so I think I'll be happy with the DTS-Neural X upmixer.
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I decided to pull the trigger on Atmos. Putting my Anthem 520 up for sale last night was like tossing a cow into piranha infested waters. It sold in like 15 min, and I got several inquiries after that. I loved my 520, so I'm going to jump into the 720 since I have an extra multi-channel amp sitting around looking bored. It doesn't have Auro-3D, but I've always loved DTS in general, so I think I'll be happy with the DTS-Neural X upmixer.
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Congratulations!! If you have a local dealer that can weigh in with a comparison to a Denon or Marantz offering with Auro great. Word to the wise, Dolby and DTS do NOT play nice together. If you are listening to something encoded with Dolby the DTS upmixer is disabled, you can only use Dolby Surround upmixer or the Atmos/DD content. DTS Neural X upmixer will work with most music AND movie content that is DTS encoded like most BRD.
The BIG advantage to Anthem as you know is ARC.
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I agree, ARC is what I mainly don't want to do without. It completely transformed the cohesiveness of my 5.1 Maggie system in a way that really shocked me, and they're just about to come out with the new iteration of the software. Auro-3D definitely looks very cool, and Anthem literally told me they'll probably never include it in their gear, but I'm too happy with their products to go in another direction. In a couple years I may go back a a pre-pro, though, so I'll revisit Auro-3D capability. I do appreciate you helping me to learn more about these codecs
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I agree, ARC is what I mainly don't want to do without. It completely transformed the cohesiveness of my 5.1 Maggie system in a way that really shocked me, and they're just about to come out with the new iteration of the software. Auro-3D definitely looks very cool, and Anthem literally told me they'll probably never include it in their gear, but I'm too happy with their products to go in another direction. In a couple years I may go back a a pre-pro, though, so I'll revisit Auro-3D capability. I do appreciate you helping me to learn more about these codecs
Sure, it is night and day, you are going to really enjoy it. What speakers are you using for bed channels? Any thought yet about what to match them with for height channels?
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I'm currently in the speaker audition phase. I've had some RSL speakers in my back up system that I've really enjoyed, so I just took delivery on two version of their newest line that just came out a few months ago (CG5 and CG25). Probably going to choose either model and use five of those for the base, and then they have a smaller speaker called the CG3 that should be tonally close, and they are easy to ceiling mount with a bracket. Planning to go 5.2.4 since my room isn't too big.
Do you have any idea how to get some atmos demo material? I heard VUDU has some on their site, but it looks like the demo disc that was out a few years ago is no longer available. I'd love to find some good demo material that I can use to evaluate things and also to demo it for others. Any idea?
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I'm currently in the speaker audition phase. I've had some RSL speakers in my back up system that I've really enjoyed, so I just took delivery on two version of their newest line that just came out a few months ago (CG5 and CG25). Probably going to choose either model and use five of those for the base, and then they have a smaller speaker called the CG3 that should be tonally close, and they are easy to ceiling mount with a bracket. Planning to go 5.2.4 since my room isn't too big.
Do you have any idea how to get some atmos demo material? I heard VUDU has some on their site, but it looks like the demo disc that was out a few years ago is no longer available. I'd love to find some good demo material that I can use to evaluate things and also to demo it for others. Any idea?
In Vudu do a search fro Atmos and see if it brings up the demo tracks. If you don't have a 4K display many of the atmos streams online will not show up but those demo tracks work fine for me. HDMI needs to "see" an HDMI 2.2 connection since many atmos streams are paired with 4K video.
For demos I recommend using BRD. Get a Sony 4K BRD player and maybe John Wick or one of the Avengers movies for movie content. For music try the atmos blueray by REM:
https://referencehometheater.com/review/rem-automatic-for-the-people-in-dolby-atmos/
or
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In Vudu do a search fro Atmos and see if it brings up the demo tracks. If you don't have a 4K display many of the atmos streams online will not show up but those demo tracks work fine for me. HDMI needs to "see" an HDMI 2.2 connection since many atmos streams are paired with 4K video.
For demos I recommend using BRD. Get a Sony 4K BRD player and maybe John Wick or one of the Avengers movies for movie content. For music try the atmos blueray by REM:
https://referencehometheater.com/review/rem-automatic-for-the-people-in-dolby-atmos/
or
I think I'm going to pick up one of those BD players that you recommended previously with the dual HDMI outputs. On the Anthem receivers, I'm pretty sure I can set the video and audio source for each input, so that should work great. Thanks for the tips on the demos...Im going to start installing the Height speakers this weekend. Hopefully by the end of May everything will be up and running.
Thanks again man!
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I think I'm going to pick up one of those BD players that you recommended previously with the dual HDMI outputs. On the Anthem receivers, I'm pretty sure I can set the video and audio source for each input, so that should work great. Thanks for the tips on the demos...Im going to start installing the Height speakers this weekend. Hopefully by the end of May everything will be up and running.
Thanks again man!
The Sony 1000ES is the most expensive BRP of the 3 models they offer but has RCA outs and a better build quality. You get a NICE bonus with Anthem receivers, they are part of the DTS PlayFi ecosystem, but that is another thread. :).
Anthem is Partnered With the Leader in Wi-Fi Streaming
Partnered with the leader in Wi-Fi streaming, DTS Play-Fi wi-fi streaming technology supports a host of high quality file formats. Controlled directly from your smart device or computer in any operating system, the “Open Ecosystem” of DTS Play-Fi technology makes it easy to stream music throughout your home, and to add more wireless streaming devices on the fly.
Works with Alexa
Anthem DTS Play-Fi products now have “Works with Alexa” certification, meaning they can be controlled using voice commands given to an Amazon Echo, Echo Dot, Echo Show, Fire TV Cube, or other Alexa voice command-enabled device. Alexa functionality is activated by using the Alexa app to enable the DTS Play-Fi skill. This links your Alexa account to "Works with Alexa" DTS Play-Fi compatible products like this one.
After installing the skill, Alexa will know your speaker by name and allow you to control volume and playback functions such as track skip, mute, pause, and stop or request a song to play in a specific room or group of rooms linked together. Once an Alexa voice command is used to start audio playback, the DTS Play-Fi app can be used to dynamically add more products to the streaming session. Additionally, Alexa's Routines feature can be used to create events that initiate audio playback on your DTS Play-Fi speaker, such as setting up your speaker to work as an alarm clock by starting your favorite song.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193942)
Kept it simple with the upfiring Elac speakers. I found the ceiling speakers were too close to your ears with no dispersion to give any effect.
5.1.2 right now and it's decent. I track my discs with which ones are Atmos and 4K in my Excel doc.
I'm using a very low end Yamaha receiver right now.
Yeah BRM, I recall previously in another thread that you removed the ceiling speakers and then went to the up firing Elac’s. In just about everything else that I read or see, they seem to prefer the ceiling style. Would you mind elaborating?
Also wondering if anyone has compared Auro 3D to Atmos and has a preference (and why)
Thanks,
JD
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Front L height channel is up...guess Im committed now lol
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194299)
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Yeah BRM, I recall previously in another thread that you removed the ceiling speakers and then went to the up firing Elac’s. In just about everything else that I read or see, they seem to prefer the ceiling style. Would you mind elaborating?
Also wondering if anyone has compared Auro 3D to Atmos and has a preference (and why)
Thanks,
JD
For available content Atmos is the winner, hands down., As for SQ my preference is Auro 3D because it is more dynamic on films and more lifelike with music. Auro also let's you dial in the effect for the type of content you are playing and how much you want to engage the height channels. Read the comparison in this review for more info:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf
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Witchdoctor,
How do you have your height channels set up? Looking at the AV-7704 marantz processor manual, there are a multitude of options. Some for Atmos and some for Auro 3D.
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Witchdoctor,
How do you have your height channels set up? Looking at the AV-7704 marantz processor manual, there are a multitude of options. Some for Atmos and some for Auro 3D.
I use very heavy Paradigm Active 20 speakers so I have them mounted on tall stands in the Auro 3D configuration:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161764)
You can see the Paradigm Shift A2 active speaker mounted above the sofa for my VOG and the side height active speaker mounted above the side surround. I now have the surround height speakers tilted down at about 15 degrees since this was taken:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161766)
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I was thinking of going towards Atmos/Auro 3D. I currently have a 5.0 system. I think the Auro 3D 10.1 layout makes more sense, so I will probably go with that layout. Since my ceiling is an acoustic grid system, I need to use speakers for all the height channels. Was thinking the JBL Control 1 Pro speakers should work and are small enough to mount to the grid. Would go with my other JBL speakers. Subwoofers are the first priority. Did you ever try the Dolby IIz upmixer (my Marantz SR-6005 has this, so I may try it out)? Just wondering how much better the Auro 3D upmixer is.
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I was thinking of going towards Atmos/Auro 3D. I currently have a 5.0 system. I think the Auro 3D 10.1 layout makes more sense, so I will probably go with that layout. Since my ceiling is an acoustic grid system, I need to use speakers for all the height channels. Was thinking the JBL Control 1 Pro speakers should work and are small enough to mount to the grid. Would go with my other JBL speakers. Subwoofers are the first priority. Did you ever try the Dolby IIz upmixer (my Marantz SR-6005 has this, so I may try it out)? Just wondering how much better the Auro 3D upmixer is.
I never tried Dolby IIz. Re: upmixers Auromatic is superior. The Dolby Surround upmixer is content dependent, on some content it makes SQ better, on some it makes it worse.
Re: your height channels check out JBL Control Now/JBL Control CRV. They would be perfect for an auro 3d install.
https://youtu.be/33oFEmncEKg
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For available content Atmos is the winner, hands down., As for SQ my preference is Auro 3D because it is more dynamic on films and more lifelike with music. Auro also let's you dial in the effect for the type of content you are playing and how much you want to engage the height channels. Read the comparison in this review for more info:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/wsr_stormaudio_iisp_3d1612_review_december2017lowres__067250400_0949_22122017.pdf
So (anyone can weigh in), would you recommend Anthem for Atmos and get the ARC? Or get a Denon for Atmos and Auro 3D? :popcorn:
JD
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So (anyone can weigh in), would you recommend Anthem for Atmos and get the ARC? Or get a Denon for Atmos and Auro 3D? :popcorn:
JD
I own an Anthem PW Amp with ARC in my office, a Marantz Processor with Auro 3D in my media room, and an Onkyo receiver with Atmos/DTS-X in the man cave. I use the Anthem for two channel, the Marantz for immersive music and movies, and the Onkyo for movies and gaming.
The Denon offers Audyssey which is good but I have not heard better sub/sat integration than the Paradigm Amp with ARC. In all fairness I have not auditioned an Anthem receiver in full surround mode but I think I would take the Denon with Auro 3D if you are 50/50 movies and music.
Did you read the review on the Storm Audio processor I posted? I feel the same way, once you get used to auromatic for music I prefer it over stereo. I still listen in stereo in my other rooms but auro 3d gets the nod for my taste.
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx6400h/denon-avr-x6400h-11.2-ch-x-140-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html
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So (anyone can weigh in), would you recommend Anthem for Atmos and get the ARC? Or get a Denon for Atmos and Auro 3D? :popcorn:
JD
This won't be helpful at all because I can't really make a comparison, but I will say that I figured I had my Magnepan 5.2 system manually calibrated pretty well until I bought an Anthem receiver in 2016. It was shocking what it did with the cohesiveness of the sound. The non-ARC room correction may also be great, I have no idea. All I can say is that this is the main reason why Im upgrading to at Atmos Anthem receiver...I just don't want to give up ARC. You'll have to forego any thoughts of Auro-3D, however, as Anthem told me directly they have zero plans to ever add it. I've never heard Auro-3D, so if nothing else, ignorance is bliss lol.
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Thanks witchdoctor and ajzepp for you replies.
Just so I understand, the Denon’s Audyssey doesn’t stack up to the Anthem’s ARC?
JD
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Thanks witchdoctor and ajzepp for you replies.
Just so I understand, the Denon’s Audyssey doesn’t stack up to the Anthem’s ARC?
JD
I think ARC does a better job integrating the subwoofer and the speakers.
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So it's taken me a good while, but I finally have all 9 channels, plus two subwoofers, installed. I upgraded my receiver to the Anthem 720, and have been playing around with it since last night. Unfortunately, since - as discussed earlier in the thread - if the source doesn't see a 4k display, it won't give you access to Atmos. So thus far I have only been using Dolby Surround and DTS:Neural. Both are doing a far better job than I expected, and it's very clear that even if it takes me a while before I can access full on Atmos or DTS:X, the DS and DTS:N adds quite a lot over regular 5.2
But ten minutes ago I just did something that blew my mind. I put an HDMI adapter on my Macbook, downloaded the Atmos trailers "Leaf" and "Amaze" from the Dolby website, and WHOAAAAA...that was the single most impressive audio I've ever heard in my home, and there's no close second. It was my first legit Atmos demo, and it did not disappoint. I can't wait for my roommate to get home...she's going to be amazed by this.
So, long story short, Atmos is not a gimmick. It's the real deal, and even prior to running room correction, the most impressive home demo I've ever heard by far.
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Congratulations!! If you get a Sony 4K blue ray player with the two hdmi ports (one for video and one for audio) I think you will be able to stream atmos to your receiver and use the video out to your screen. I primarily rely on the upmixers in my media room and it works either way.
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Congratulations!! If you get a Sony 4K blue ray player with the two hdmi ports (one for video and one for audio) I think you will be able to stream atmos to your receiver and use the video out to your screen. I primarily rely on the upmixers in my media room and it works either way.
Now that I see what you mean about how good the upmixers are, the main reason why Im leaning toward just holding off on a player is b/c I keep reading that downconverted HDR looks kinda bad vs the regular bluray version. I cannot understand why they dont just put the atmos tracks on the blurays and let UHD be a selling point on its own for the videophile crowd. Im more of an audio guy than video, so I find it very frustrating that it feels like Im being “forced” to go 4k when Im perfectly happy with my current projector. I cant believe what DTS Neural does for a stereo source like youtube, so Im really eager to get some lossless music fired up.
But since the DTS Master and DD HD tracks maintain that quality when the upmixers are applied, I think Im going to be quite happy just staying with regular bluray and streaming until I can upgrade to a 4k projector in the future. The heights are far more active that I expected, and having more of a 3D surround field is really fun. Im thankful for people like yourself and a few others who helped me decide to go Atmos.
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Hey what outboard amp are you running those extra channels with?
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Hey what outboard amp are you running those extra channels with?
Mine is 5.4.1. I use all the Anthem 5x140w channels, but not the 2x60w channels. I added 4 channels of Hypex 250w (2x 2ch modules) for the 4 ceiling speakers, controlled by a trigger from the MRX720. Works great.
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Hey what outboard amp are you running those extra channels with?
I had an outlaw 7 channel amp (7075, I think is the model?) that didnt have anything to do, so I put it to work.
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There are bluerays with Atmos mixes that are not UHD as well as some music discs. Checkout Roger Waters movie The Wall and Aquaman.
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I'm reading between the lines here that my Yamaha receiver may be outgunned by the Anthem ARC system. My Yamaha has all the power for the 5.4.2 channels now and it is okay sounding with the Elac enabled speakers. I have other more pressing things to spend money on but Anthem is having a 20% off sale until early June on processors and receivers. Do you think the ARC is superior in sound to YPAO?
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I'm reading between the lines here that my Yamaha receiver may be outgunned by the Anthem ARC system. My Yamaha has all the power for the 5.4.2 channels now and it is okay sounding with the Elac enabled speakers. I have other more pressing things to spend money on but Anthem is having a 20% off sale until early June on processors and receivers. Do you think the ARC is superior in sound to YPAO?
I can't really say, but note that ARC just underwent a huge revision, called Genesis, which just came out. Not much info out there yet on it's effectiveness, but I'd presume it's better ;-)
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I don’t follow processors much but Anthem ARC stems from research done at the NRC. If anyone believes in the research done by Toole then this product falls in line with it.
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I'm reading between the lines here that my Yamaha receiver may be outgunned by the Anthem ARC system. My Yamaha has all the power for the 5.4.2 channels now and it is okay sounding with the Elac enabled speakers. I have other more pressing things to spend money on but Anthem is having a 20% off sale until early June on processors and receivers. Do you think the ARC is superior in sound to YPAO?
The main reason I went with Anthem back in 2016 was because of the research I did on the room correction software vs other options. I haven't heard Audyssey or YPAO, but I will say that the impact ARC has (haven't run Genesis yet) is pretty impressive. I had manually calibrated my previous system with an SPL meter, but when I ran ARC, the soundfield became far more cohesive and vocals were significantly improved in terms of intelligibility. That's the main reason I spent more than I really wanted and moved up the line to an Anthem 720 for Atmos.
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I'll keep reading and relying on you guys.
I have the Yamaha RX-A2080 AVENTAGE 9.2-Channel
This 9.2-channel AV receiver harnesses dual ESS SABRE™ DACs, seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality, Phono input, Wi-Fi®, YPAO™ with Precision EQ and much more.
9.2-ch Dolby Atmos, DTS:X (7.2.2-ch or 5.2.4-ch) and CINEMA DSP HD3 with Zone 2/3/4
Wi-Fi, Bluetooth®, AirPlay®, Spotify Connect and MusicCast multi-room
New Surround:AI™ technology automatically optimizes the sound in real-time
4K Ultra HD support, HDR10, Dolby Vision™, Hybrid Log-Gamma and BT.2020
HDMI with HDCP 2.2 (7 in/3 out)
Dual ESS SABRE ES9007S Premier Audio DACs for high performance conversion
Pandora®, Spotify, SiriusXM Internet Radio, TIDAL, Deezer, Napster and more
YPAO R.S.C., multipoint, 3D and precision EQ
Voice control using your Alexa device like Echo or Echo Dot
Phono input
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I'll keep reading and relying on you guys.
I have the Yamaha RX-A2080 AVENTAGE 9.2-Channel
This 9.2-channel AV receiver harnesses dual ESS SABRE™ DACs, seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality, Phono input, Wi-Fi®, YPAO™ with Precision EQ and much more.
9.2-ch Dolby Atmos, DTS:X (7.2.2-ch or 5.2.4-ch) and CINEMA DSP HD3 with Zone 2/3/4
Wi-Fi, Bluetooth®, AirPlay®, Spotify Connect and MusicCast multi-room
New Surround:AI™ technology automatically optimizes the sound in real-time
4K Ultra HD support, HDR10, Dolby Vision™, Hybrid Log-Gamma and BT.2020
HDMI with HDCP 2.2 (7 in/3 out)
Dual ESS SABRE ES9007S Premier Audio DACs for high performance conversion
Pandora®, Spotify, SiriusXM Internet Radio, TIDAL, Deezer, Napster and more
YPAO R.S.C., multipoint, 3D and precision EQ
Voice control using your Alexa device like Echo or Echo Dot
Phono input
I don't know that you need to change anything, that is a brand new receiver from their Avantage line. How do you like Surround AI? I think you just need to experiment a little to dial in the sound for your room. I am sure you could be happy with either receiver.
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I don't know that you need to change anything, that is a brand new receiver from their Avantage line. How do you like Surround AI? I think you just need to experiment a little to dial in the sound for your room. I am sure you could be happy with either receiver.
Can't say I have noticed any impact from it. I'll take a look at the menu at the next sitting.
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Can't say I have noticed any impact from it. I'll take a look at the menu at the next sitting.
Here is a video about surround ai, looking forward to your impressions:
https://youtu.be/9AbBDO0Zdrs
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A little dated but still useful writeup on the topic of room correction.
https://hometheaterreview.com/room-correction-revisited/
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Here is a video about surround ai, looking forward to your impressions:
https://youtu.be/9AbBDO0Zdrs
So at my advanced age I read the model number w/o my glasses and it turns out I have the 2060 and not the 2080. So no AI. Pretty much everything else (that I don't use).
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So at my advanced age I read the model number w/o my glasses and it turns out I have the 2060 and not the 2080. So no AI. Pretty much everything else (that I don't use).
I think the receiver is fine according to this review. Can you tell us your other components? Speakers, source, TV, etc?
https://av-receivers.net/yamaha/yamaha-rx-a2060-review/
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So at my advanced age I read the model number w/o my glasses and it turns out I have the 2060 and not the 2080. So no AI. Pretty much everything else (that I don't use).
I hope you are making good use of the internet radio function, which is much easier to navigate with the Yamaha remote app.
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I hope you are making good use of the internet radio function, which is much easier to navigate with the Yamaha remote app.
I never use it. My son might use it. When I watch a movie or Sunday NFL game is when I use this set=up. It is not part of my 2 channel room gear so I don't use it much. If I move, I may bring the two together into one system. Not ideal but perhaps the sweetspot chair for stereo would still suffice for HT sound.
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I think the receiver is fine according to this review. Can you tell us your other components? Speakers, source, TV, etc?
https://av-receivers.net/yamaha/yamaha-rx-a2060-review/
Oppo 4k player and Elac speakers. Sony 75" 4k.
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Which elac speakers and how many?
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Just a quick update...
Pretty much done with turning the extra bedroom into a theater room, so Sunday night we sat down to watch "Adrift" on Showtime. I had the FireTV connected and was streaming the Showtime Anywhere app. Well, I checked to see what the receiver was showing as the audio track and it said "2.0 PCM" :scratch: Turns out that the showtime app ONLY streams in 2.0 on FireTV, and the showtime people are supposedly "passing along the concerns to their technical team".
The GOOD news, however, is that DTS Neural took those two channels and transformed it into an incredible, lively, and dynamic 5.2.4 multichannel experience that blew us away. There are some scenes in that film of a storm on the water, and it was intense as hell. So even though it would really be nice to get *real* Atmos and DTS X fired up in here soon, I'm more than happy with the upmixers.
Here are a couple quick before and after shots. The room looks quite a bit better in person, IMO. The first photos are the room just before I decided to go Atmos, and the after is the full room in a panoramic shot on the iPhone, which is why it looks a tad wobbly.
Before (March 2019)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194972)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194975)
And After (May 2019)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194976)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194977)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194978)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194979)
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Gorgeous, the blue lights around the room look fantastic, your idea? What is the small white box on top of your rack? Is that your streamer?
Once you start comparing the native mixes to the upmixers it will depend on the movie. On some you might prefer the upmixer, on others the native mix. You can stream showtime,starz,hbo as an amazon channel and I think it streams in DD from what I can tell. Just don't use the showtime app, use the Prime video app and stream showtime through there. CONGRATULATIONS! Please post your thoughts after you have had a chance to listen toi some upmixed music. "Riders on the Storm" is intersting because you can hear that thunder in the beginning of the song coming from above you :o
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Thanks Witchdoctor. Yep, I wanted to add an LED strip around the base just to give it some pop. I'd seen some other folks on the forums do it, so that's where the idea came from. Pretty amazing what technology can do today...it's actually connected into the wifi, and even Alexa can control it. Crazy!
The white box is my Sonos streamer, yeppers.
I will definitely fire up that track after work tonight, but so far I've spent a fair amount of time listening to 2-channel music in DTS Neural. I never did that very often with dolby pro-logic, because it never sounded natural, but so far, Neural seems to do a great job. It adds to the presentation instead of taking away from it. Definitely a thumb's up so far.
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Was pleasantly surprised to find out today that AppleTV will pass Atmos with iTunes movies, and also Netflix, when you only have a 1080p display.
***May have jumped the gun. The AppleTV is showing Atmos, but the receiver is still showing PCM....so need to do some troubleshooting to confirm if it's sending Atmos via bitstream or not. Will update once I find out for sure.
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Nice, that is mostly for Netflix tv shows right?
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Nice, that is mostly for Netflix tv shows right?
I was primarily just wanting a way to rent new titles in Atmos, since Vudu pairs atmos with HDR. Unfortunatley, though the AppleTV is showing Atmos, the receiver is showing PCM. So I need to make sure the same pairing issue isn't causing this to be screwed up yet again. Going to troubleshoot tomorrow when Im off work and hopefully figure this out. Very frustrating! lol
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I was primarily just wanting a way to rent new titles in Atmos, since Vudu pairs atmos with HDR. Unfortunatley, though the AppleTV is showing Atmos, the receiver is showing PCM. So I need to make sure the same pairing issue isn't causing this to be screwed up yet again. Going to troubleshoot tomorrow when Im off work and hopefully figure this out. Very frustrating! lol
I sure hope you figure this out so I don't have to :green:
Drives me crazy too. I gave it a rest for a couple weeks.
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I sure hope you figure this out so I don't have to :green:
Drives me crazy too. I gave it a rest for a couple weeks.
LOL...it's incredibly frustrating. The worst part is that it's very hard to isolate variables. I can't tell if it's the source, the damn HDMI cable (which is new, so that shouldnt be it), the receiver, or the fact that I dont have a 4k display. Very annoying. Going to try to take it step by step to isolate and get to the bottom of it. I've got five days off to figure it out lol.
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LOL...it's incredibly frustrating. The worst part is that it's very hard to isolate variables. I can't tell if it's the source, the damn HDMI cable (which is new, so that shouldnt be it), the receiver, or the fact that I dont have a 4k display. Very annoying. Going to try to take it step by step to isolate and get to the bottom of it. I've got five days off to figure it out lol.
I had a brand new HDMI cable, all kinds of fluffy "hi speed" specs on it, 4k, blah blah blah. Finally figured out it wouldn't pass ARC for whatever reason. Put a cheapo cable in, and worked like a champ. Go figure.
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I had a brand new HDMI cable, all kinds of fluffy "hi speed" specs on it, 4k, blah blah blah. Finally figured out it wouldn't pass ARC for whatever reason. Put a cheapo cable in, and worked like a champ. Go figure.
LOL that sounds like the perfect "poster child" scenario for how crazy this hobby is lately.
To add to all the confusion (just speaking for myself, here...lol), apparently the AppleTV doesn't even have the ability to bitstream Atmos. It uses something called "Dolby MAT", which I've never heard of. And when it does this, it apparently will show up on the receiver as multi-channel PCM. So now it's kind of like a game..."guess whether it's actually Atmos...or NOT Atmos...let's see what's behind curtain number one!" :duh:
I'm going to call both Anthem and Apple in the morning so I can confirm 100%. Hopefully that will settle it.
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I'm very, very happy to say that I can now officially confirm that the AppleTV 4k DOES indeed pass Dolby Atmos, even when you're running a lowly 1080p display. So far, this is only limited to iTunes rentals/purchases, Atmos titles on Netflix, and Atmos titles on Amazon Prime. I'm also happy to report that the image quality still looks fantastic. I had some concerns about whether the HDR-to-SDR conversion would impact the image, but it's pretty beautiful.
I love my projector, so this takes away the temptation of going to 4k sooner than I really want to.
So in case anyone is in my position and considering Atmos, but not wanting to go to a 4k display, I can very highly recommend the AppleTV4k. So far, it's a fantastic device.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195035)
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Nice, thanks for "taking one for the team" and figuring this out, good to know as I have never tried ANY apple products before (not even itunes or a mp3 download). THANKS
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sure thing, that was quite an education! lol I keep trying to get away from apple products, but they keep bringing me right back in apparently.
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Hey all...just finished phase 3 of my room, so thought I'd share a few pics since it's quiet in here. I am really happy with the results, but ironically, it was the cheapo foam stuff that finally got that slight last bit of slap echo out of the room. The GIK absorption and Vicoustic diffusors make a massive improvement, but there was a tiny bit of echo that I isolated to the high side walls. It wasn't feasible for me to treat this part of the room with GIK or Vicoustic, so I tossed some foam panels up there and that did the trick. After-treatment calibration results were pretty fantastic. My main goal was to give the ARC room correction the best environment possible so that I could get the most out of it, and it appears to have worked out well.
I've since added some small treatments to the corners in the rear room, but other than that, this is basically the finished product after five months of working on it. Obviously the room is designed more for dim lighting, but took the pics with full light since it's hard to see otherwise.
Happy Listening
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199101)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199102)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199103)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199104)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199105)
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Very inspirational, looks great and I'll bet it sounds even better. :thumb:
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Thanks man, you were definitely one of the folks who helped convince me that I should go ahead with Atmos, so mjch appreciated :)
My biggest concern has been trying to do this in a smaller room, but it really does sound cohesive and dynamic. The echo was pretty crazy when I first started, so treating it this heavily made a massive improvement, and then the room calibration did the rest.
If you're ever in North GA, stop over for a listen :thumb:
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Looks great! Glad results are positive.
I am in the midst of slowly finishing off my basement. I have all of the gear to do a pretty nice setup for Atmos. Am on the fence as to whether I finish the full blown effort or greatly reduce the effort and complexity. I rarely spend time listening and watching these days so I continually question my path forward. Since I already own everything I will press on with the current path.
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Looks great! Glad results are positive.
I am in the midst of slowly finishing off my basement. I have all of the gear to do a pretty nice setup for Atmos. Am on the fence as to whether I finish the full blown effort or greatly reduce the effort and complexity. I rarely spend time listening and watching these days so I continually question my path forward. Since I already own everything I will press on with the current path.
Thanks :) I can totally understand that dilemma. I honestly thought that Atmos was just the next gimmick that they were using to get us to buy new/more gear, but some people I trusted convinced me to give it a go. Not sure if it's helpful or not, but all I can say is that Atmos (and keep in mind, 90% of the time Im actually using the Dolby Surround or DTS Neural upmixers, not *actual* Atmos) makes a very noticable and significant impact on the presentation - at least to my ears. The greater sense of dimension to the overall soundfield is really a lot of fun, and it makes the room feel significantly larger overall.
I can totally understand the apprehension of going through all the effort when it's not something you typically spend much time with these days, but compared to a typical 5.1/7.1 surround system, there is definitely a benefit to adding the height channels.
Whichever direction you go in, I hope you enjoy the fruits of your labor!
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They just released Abbey Road in Atmos! Can't wait, I understand Amazon is going to start streaming Atmos mixes too:
https://concertsondvd.com/collections/new-blu-ray-releases/products/the-beatles-abbey-road-anniversary-box-set-3cds-blu-ray-2019-release-date-9-27-19
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I recently finished upgrading my 5.1 system to a full Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 setup and the resulting sound really enhances the home movie experience. The 5.1 system is part of the stereo so when the Outlaw 975 died I replaced it with an Anthem AVM 60 because I already had most of the amps needed. I picked up a used Adcom GFA 7300 5-channel amp for $350 from the The Music Room (https://tmraudio.com/) for the atmos speakers and I was all set.
Researching ceiling speakers was daunting, I didn't know everybody and their brother-in-laws makes ceiling speakers with prices from real cheap to really expensive. I began narrowing down my search with a couple of requirements: they should disappear and be protected from blown insulation and the high 140 degree attic heat in Arizona.
Big Red Machine also gave me something to think about with his post on the first page of this thread:
...I found the ceiling speakers were too close to your ears with no dispersion to give any effect...
So I began thinking of bi-pole speakers for more dispersion and less beaming, which led me to Triad Speakers. Triad has been doing home theater for a long time and recently blew everyone away with their $300,000 11.4.6 dts-X: PRO Demo w/ TRINNOV Audio Altitude 32 & TRIAD Speakers at CEDIA 2019 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifPzkRNbZIQ)
Triad has a user group at AVS Forum and Dawn Gordon suggested using the Inwall Bronze/4 Surround bipole (https://www.triadspeakers.com/products/home-cinema/inwall-home-cinema/iw-bronze4-surround/) as atmos speakers, which is what I ended up using. The reason for using bipole speakers is that for ceilings 8' and under it is very hard to get the proper dispersion as BRM discovered and my ceiling is less than 8'. I am very happy with the speakers and would use them again. Highly recommended!
I found a pair of Triad Onwall Bronze Surround speakers (https://www.triadspeakers.com/products/home-cinema/onwall/ow-bronze-surround/) to use as the surrounds on eBay along with two Inwall Bronze/4 surrounds so fortunately I only had to buy two at retail. Triad only sells through a dealer network, I located a dealer that sells Triad speakers at 10% off, no tax and free shipping:
https://avscience.com/ (https://avscience.com/)
My 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos surround sound home theater has 4 amps and a REL Gibraltar G2 sub for a total of 1740 class AB high current watts and yes, it's as awesome as it sounds.
Free Dolby Atmos demo videos can be downloaded at:
Demo World (https://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/)
Demolandia (https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd.html)
Official Dolby Website (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-trailers.html)
So far movies I have watched that show off the immersive Atmos sound include Blade Runner 2049 ( the Hans Zimmer soundtrack has very strong 25Hz content), John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum, and Godzilla: King of Monsters (of course).
My goal was to incorporate all the changes without drastically changing the uncluttered look of the living room. The front has the REL sub and amp stack, speakers are Salk HT2-TL and Salk HT2C.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199596&size=xlarge)
There are 8 speakers with a total of 26 drivers in the photo below, the Onwall Bronze surrounds are hidden in the modified ATC sound panels and the upper rear speakers are homemade Vifa bipole surrounds.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199597&size=xlarge)
The installation involved a Tyvek suit because the ceiling has 16" of blown insulation but I ended up doing all the work from below because the attic was too tight with all the braces.
The Fein oscillating sander with a saw blade made cutting the 1" thick plaster & drywall ceiling very easy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199598)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199599)
I figured out how to fish wiring from hole to hole and down the front wall all from below, cleanup was fun too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199600)
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It looks like all the hard work paid off, your room looks fantastic! Your choice to go with white grill blends nicely. Great tip about low ceilings and dispersion issues. The blend of your room treatments along with ARC must really top it off so the sound is seamless as the decor.
Try checking out the Qello concert service on your Roku. Tons of DVD and Blueray concerts available for streaming and when you use your upmixers for either atmos or DTS-X the you are there factor along with the screen is really a great experience.
I can't see from the photos but are you using a power conditioner?
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Unfortunately I don't have Roku but the main computer is connected to the Anthem AVM 60 with HDMI so I stream everything and convert it into DTS-X. ARC makes a big difference, all the speakers sound great after calibration.
No power conditioner, the Van Alstine Set 400 and REL sub are plugged directly into the wall. The other electronics are plugged into a Panamax 5410 surge protector, a Tripplite Isobar6, and various Felix filters.
Here is a photo of the Triad Inwall Bronze/4 Surrounds mounted in the ceiling along with the Vifa Surrounds I made a long time ago
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199602&size=xlarge)
The Triad Onwall Bronze Surrounds are screwed to a black background, the speakers disappear behind the ATC sound panels grill cloth.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199603&size=xlarge)
The Vifa surrounds were made from a kit back when Hi-Fi VCR's were popular and part of my original surround sound setup in 1995.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187122&size=huge)
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NP, the main computer can stream qello just fine then. I was using a PC for a while but switched to a sony blue ray player with most of the streaming apps I use. Problem is if you need a service not in the devices software you are SOL. It only uses spotify for music and i would prefer tidal