AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Hagerman Technology => Topic started by: hagtech on 7 Mar 2007, 11:57 pm
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I just uploaded a new page that answers a lot of the common questions regarding the FRYKLEANER and break-in in general. Let me know what you think.
www.hagtech.com/burn.html
jh
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Very informative :thumb:
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OK, I'll go out on a limb here and say it... Jim, are there any measurable differences between a burned in cable and a non burned in cable?
I find it interesting that your kits are well designed from an engineering standpoint and they use standard digikey parts rather than boutique parts. The cable burner, however, seems to go against the grain of the other kits you offer as some people feel that cable burn-in is pseudoscience.
I am wondering if you have measured any LCR differences between pre burn-in versus post burn-in?
Thanks.
Tom
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are there any measurable differences between a burned in cable and a non burned in cable
Glad you asked. Honestly, I never even checked. Mostly I think the answer would be no, the obvious stuff doesn't change appreciably. However, if you dig deep, it might be that dissipation factor of the dielectric, or some kind of hysteresis like remanance could be measurable. DF would be high on my checklist. But you have to start with the basics, like LCGR. Inductance, capacitance, conductance, and resistance. These are the 4 basic parameters used to describe a transmission line. Then go on to relative permittivity and permeability, which are frequency dependent (hence, the reason we use teflon and other exotic materials for circuit boards operating above 10GHz). I would also look into parasitics and contaminations, like residual diode-like junctions between materials (cuprous oxide is a semiconductor) or photovoltaic or electrochemical processes taking place. We could have tiny little batteries or thermocouples added into the mix. There is more than enough stuff to look into.
So maybe a $40k network analyzer might be able to start pulling apart some of this. I have no doubt that pieces to this puzzle will start to emerge in the next decade. Progress takes time. It is both nonlinear and lumpy. Digital audio took us awhile, too.
A lot of the advancement in hi-end comes from lunatic fringe experimenters. Seriously, who else would cryo a tube? Or bias a cable with blue light? But hey, it is the results that count, not the theory. We can figure that out later. And so that is where I am with the FRYKLEANER. It works like magic, we just don't know why. For me, the best piece of evidence so far is my 30-day money back guarantee (and no restocking fee bs, either). No FRYKLEANER has ever been returned.
The proof is in the pudding, and we have achieved the first step, empirical evidence though A/B testing. Step two is a solid scientific theory based on known physical principles. Step three is the experimental proof of step two. We're just getting started.
Having said that, you'll notice the FRYKLEANERs are really well engineered circuits using regular low-cost components. :P
jh
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Thanks for the thorough response Jim. I agree that the proof is in the pudding and that scientific justification can follow the empirical evidence.
Take care,
Tom
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The cable burner, however, seems to go against the grain of the other kits...
I realize this is seemingly at odds. The reason is because I happen to be an emotional, passionate, right-brain type, not the typical logical serial-thinking engineer you would expect. In fact, a few years ago I took an online personality test (www.tickle.com) to find out what my profession should be. The answer came back that electrical engineer would be the worst possible choice. I should have been an architect. Well, I guess they were right, as I approach electronics from a holistic or system viewpoint. The big picture. On the other hand, I am a classically trained scientist with a knack for mathematics. Fortunately, I am able to apply both methods to achieve a result.
So I am not rebelling against boutique parts. They have their place. Some are real, some fraud.
When I designed the FRYKLEANER I had no idea if it would work. It sort of came out of a consulting project I had done for the university here - an underwater broadband modem with two FSK and one ASK channels. Combine that with a rumor I had heard that interstation FM hiss does a good job with burn-in. Hmmm, I had the technology right in front of me to take such to a new level. All I did was to reapply the circuits to generate this really wierd signal (www.hagtech.com/pdf/fryklean.pdf) that somehow made sense to the left side of my brain. I had no idea it would take off the way it did. The dang thing worked, and worked really well. It was the early-adopter customer that really made it successful.
jh
[Had to edit left to right on brain type. Sheesh, I can't even keep that straight]
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Jim,
Thanks for the FAQ. I love my FryKleaner and use it multiple times a week. And thanks again for the February award.
Anand.
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I just uploaded a new page that answers a lot of the common questions regarding the FRYKLEANER and break-in in general. Let me know what you think.
www.hagtech.com/burn.html
jh
Got it. Thanks. So how does one run voltage with the FRYKLEANER through the interconnect? I just plug then into the RCA jack and set it to HI. Is this wrong? If I want to do a power cable then I do the same but use the plug? Speaker cables on the front. All set to high right?
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Hi Jim
Here is an interesting question, well I thinks its interesting. Would it be best to burn in, then cryo or cryo then burn in?
Whilst it is fairly academic until I can actually afford to get cryo treatment I would still like to know.
Has anyone tried this?
Bluesky
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I've been told that cryo'ing essentially erases burn-in...no clue though. A year or so ago i was contacted by a cryo shop that BPT to see if I wanted to get my power strip cryo'd. The tech i spoke with said only drawback is another monthlong period of burn-in was required.
makes sense considering the re-arrangement of the crystals.
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I just uploaded a new page that answers a lot of the common questions regarding the FRYKLEANER and break-in in general. Let me know what you think.
www.hagtech.com/burn.html
jh
Got it. Thanks. So how does one run voltage with the FRYKLEANER through the interconnect? I just plug then into the RCA jack and set it to HI. Is this wrong? If I want to do a power cable then I do the same but use the plug? Speaker cables on the front. All set to high right?
Anyone willing to help?
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Yes, for voltage mode, just plug in one end of the cable. You leave the far end unplugged (no load). Then the FRYKLEANER drives the cable with a voltage. This mainly exercises the dielectric with E fields.
Would it be best to burn in, then cryo or cryo then burn in?
I have no idea. Me never done any experiments with cryo, although I do think such is worth investigating. Gooberdude makes a good point, and that perhaps you should cryo first. It makes sense.
jh
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Yes, for voltage mode, just plug in one end of the cable. You leave the far end unplugged (no load). Then the FRYKLEANER drives the cable with a voltage. This mainly exercises the dielectric with E fields.
Would it be best to burn in, then cryo or cryo then burn in?
I have no idea. Me never done any experiments with cryo, although I do think such is worth investigating. Gooberdude makes a good point, and that perhaps you should cryo first. It makes sense.
jh
Can I burn in XLR cables and Speaker wires at the same time?
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Can I burn in XLR cables and Speaker wires at the same time?
With the FRY GOLD you can. All of the other FRY machines work on one thing at a time. In fact, the FRY GOLD can do two pair of speaker cables, two pair of RCA interconnects, and a pair of XLR all at the same time.
jh
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Can it do two pairs of speaker wire at the same time?
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Yep.
jh
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With all of the cryo cable stuff going on, I'm always reminded of a high school physics experiment I did with cyro cooling magnets. While the magnets were stronger when cooled, once they warmed back up they were weaker than originally. The process of cooling and heating had left the material in worse alignment than it was originally. I'm curious if anyone has done any measurements demonstrating a positive impact of cryo treatment.