[zacster]

Just got the email today from HDTracks and this one show the Allmans at Fillmore East. 

What bugs me about HDTracks is that they don't publish the provenance of these versions.  Is this a rehash of a previously released SACD?  Is this the original quad version that is slightly different than the stereo?  Is this an upconvert from 16/44?  (I hope not.)  Is this a completely remastered edition from the original tapes?  I doubt that last one, because if it were they'd be trumpeting that. 

I really don't care where it comes from myself, but it has to sound good to be worthwhile, and without having some idea of the source you have no idea about what you are getting. 

I'll wait for someone else to review it.

[ted_b]

Identical comment here.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69814.msg958964#msg958964

After further thought, and a nice PM from the OP   I am keeping this thread alive.

I think more and more folks need to push sites like Chesky's HDtracks to spill the provenance.  In the meantime I'll rip the SACD and tell you how it sounds. 

[firedog]

Just read up on this. There's the "original" album: the Capricorn CD - which is apparently a straight digital transfer/digital master of the original LP (all the info on the CD cover relates to the original album); the SACD from 2004; and "The Fillmore Concerts" a remaster from 1992 (it has the same picture on the cover, but in color).

From All Music, about "The Fillmore Concerts", which is made from different material from among the shows the band did over 2 days at the Fillmore East. Sort of makes me think maybe I should just buy that, and not this hi-res version of material I already own:

 

A good idea that worked out even better, with one small caveat. The Fillmore Concerts is made up of performances from the two Fillmore shows that originally comprised Live at the Fillmore East and the concert portions of Eat a Peach, plus one track ("One Way Out") from a Fillmore show from a couple of months later. The 16-track masters from each show are transferred to digital and remixed by original producer Tom Dowd. The sound is sterling and the two-hour-plus running time makes this a dream for fans of the band, as well as an improvement on the original releases of this material. It is also a slightly less honest release, where "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" is concerned -- Dowd edited the version here together from two different performances, first and second shows, the dividing line being where Duane Allman's solo comes in.

The only thing I think we know at this point is that the HDTracks version didn't come from the SACD, as HDT has repeatedly said they only convert SACD (or it's source file) to 88 and 176k, which are natural integer multiples of such material.

[pardales]

Just got the email today from HDTracks and this one show the Allmans at Fillmore East. 

What bugs me about HDTracks is that they don't publish the provenance of these versions.  Is this a rehash of a previously released SACD?  Is this the original quad version that is slightly different than the stereo?  Is this an upconvert from 16/44?  (I hope not.)  Is this a completely remastered edition from the original tapes?  I doubt that last one, because if it were they'd be trumpeting that. 

I really don't care where it comes from myself, but it has to sound good to be worthwhile, and without having some idea of the source you have no idea about what you are getting. 

I'll wait for someone else to review it.

Good questions and good overall point. That info should be standard.

[zacster]

I didn't buy Layla, as the price was too high, and now I'll wait to buy this until I can find out more.  I don't know what HDT is thinking about making sales if my two most played, most beat up albums are available and I'm hesitating to buy them.  All they'd have to do is say "These were remastered from the original xxx tapes, and previously available as yyy" or some such. This reeks of snake oil, but I don't know if snake oil has an odor as I don't buy it. 

Maybe I should listen to McCartney.

[Aleg]

Some information to make up your own mind.


The Liner Notes are from this issue:

• The Allman Brothers Band At Fillmore East
  Label: Capricorn Records
  Catalog#:  314 531 260-2
  Format: CD, Album, Reissue, Remastered
  Country: US
  Released:  1997
  Genre: Blues, Rock
  Style: Blues Rock, Southern Rock

Dynamic Range Metering:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Allman Brothers Band / The Allman Brothers Band At Fillmore East
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9       -2.09 dB   -13.22 dB  4:19     01-Statesboro Blues
DR9       -2.09 dB   -13.74 dB  4:35     02-Done Somebody Wrong
DR11      -2.10 dB   -16.05 dB  8:49     03-Stormy Monday
DR10      -2.09 dB   -14.69 dB  19:18    04-You Don't Love Me / Soul Serenade
DR9       -2.09 dB   -13.45 dB  5:21     05-Hot 'Lanta
DR9       -2.10 dB   -12.83 dB  13:06    06-In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed
DR9       -2.10 dB   -13.98 dB  23:13    07-Whipping Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 7
Maximum peak difference (-2.09 dB - -2.10 dB): 0.01 dB
Album Totals:

                 Left              Right

Peak Value:     -2.19 dB   ---     -2.09 dB   
Avg RMS:       -14.41 dB   ---    -13.63 dB   
DR channel:      9.37 dB   ---      8.97 dB   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR value (Album Mode): 9
================================================================================



Spectrograms:

[Mike Nomad]

..."The Fillmore Concerts" a remaster from 1992 (it has the same picture on the cover, but in color).

A big +1 on The Fillmore Concerts: It flows like a real show (no banding, with Whipping Post > Mountain Jam, like it's supposed to be). The sound quality is great.

Since "Concerts," I can't stand playing the original release.

[jamesg11]

What do we take from Aleg's spectograms etc?

[rbbert]

What do we take from Aleg's spectograms etc?

One thing is that this is an old recording without much information above 20 kHz; OTOH, there is no sharp drop at 20-22 kHz suggesting a 44.1 master merely upsampled.  Izotope Ozone suggest that there is musical information down to at least 20 or 21 bits, so it's probably a real 24/96 transfer of the analog master tape.

[zacster]

I bit the bullet and downloaded it, using a 15% off coupon right before it expired so it only cost about $15 instead of 18.  I'm not so impressed by the quality.  You can hear the limitation of the original source in this, or maybe the copy of the original source.  I have a number of hi-res recordings, including some off of LP that I did myself, and this doesn't rank up there with them. 

I'm going to compare it to my original beat up LP to see which I like better, but I'm betting on the LP.  It won't be a scientific test.

[jimdgoulding]

I have this on CD and vinyl (at least I think I do but will need to be sure).  I listen to the former on a meager Sony DVD player into a second generation Bel Canto DAC.  Am I missing something?  You gotta expect more than just me is wondering.  Appreciate more information, please.  Thanks in advance.

[zacster]

I gave the whole thing a listen yesterday and just wasn't impressed.  The recording is just not that clear to begin with, and at some point there was a clean up done that I could hear during a slow guitar solo.  Each note was accompanied by hiss, then silence between.  It was very noticeable.  I can't remember now where on the album it was.  I also found that not the entire album was my favorite, in particular "You Don't Love Me".  Maybe back in the day I liked it, but it just seemed to ramble on.  The difference now is I didn't have to get up and flip it.  (I guess that went away 25 years or so ago, but I only had the LP until yesterday.)

I still haven't pulled out the LP for comparison, maybe later today.  It's 3am and don't want to wake up the neighborhood. 

[zacster]

I took a listen to a track on the LP - Hot 'Lanta, and now I know why I'm not blown away by the HDTracks.  First, I listened to the LP and took a reading on the levels with my trusty RatShack SPL meter.  What I noticed though right away was the bass.  It was thunderous.  I then switched to the HDTracks version and made sure the SPL was the same.  What just struck me was that while the drums, cymbals and things came through better, the drive of the LP was missing.  The bass was not nearly as loud but was there.  The overall effect however was that the LP just sounded like a live concert where the digital sounded like a recording.  I'd give the LP a win here hands down.

My setup, not that it'll matter:

Aikido 24v version pre-amp, Creek phono section (I think the same as their basic OBH 8.)
6B4G Push-pull amp built on a Dynaco chassis
Proac 2.5 clones, modified to use ScanSpeak 9500 tweeters.  (These deliver really low bass)
Rega Planar 3 turntable
Sumiko Pearl cartridge
Oppo 93 player using DLNA
iMac running Twonky media server

An old and literally moldy original Live at Fillmore for the LP, and of course the 24/96 HDTracks version.

[jimdgoulding]

Got to find my LP tonite!