SongTower-RAAL in walnut

jsalk · « **on:** 13 Aug 2010, 06:37 pm »

Mike wanted a pair of SongTowers with a ribbon tweeter.

Since we announced the transition to RAAL ribbon tweeters, we have been hard at work revising all of our ribbon designs to incorporate this phenomenal driver. This is the first pair of SongTowers we will ship the the RAAL tweeter.

The sound was VERY smooth right from the start.

Here are some pictures...

And a close-up...

Happy listening Mike!

- Jim

srb · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 07:03 pm »

Does the new SongTower ribbon version no longer include the aluminum baffle?

Steve

Saturn94 · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 07:35 pm »

Beautiful!

I'm anxious to here the new version next time I visit Dennis.

jsalk · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: srb on 13 Aug 2010, 07:03 pm

Does the new SongTower ribbon version no longer include the aluminum baffle?

Steve

Steve

Correct. It does not. We went back and fourth on this. Our choices were to add $200 to the upgrade cost or eliminate the aluminum baffle. We decided that more people would prefer the RAAL at no additional cost (over the LCY upgrade with the aluminum baffles) to paying $200 more. So the aluminum baffle is now history (although we may have a few left for the LCY tweeter). This allowed us to offer increased performance at no additional cost.

- Jim

billmcc · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 08:29 pm »

Jim,

It looks like the RAAL ribbon tweeter just fits between the two midwoofers. Although I am very happy with dome version of my STs I would like to hear a pair with the RAAL tweeters some day

. Speaking of the baffle I would really like to know how the crew at Salk get it perfectly flush with the cabinent. I am hoping Jim does a video or pictures of the current speaker building process. I would find it very interesting to see the process from start to finish.

Bill

cacophony777 · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 09:28 pm »

Absolutely stunning!

Construct · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 10:48 pm »

You have my attention, especially for the price. If these were powered by a 100 watt amp in a 26x16 room with a sub crossed at 60hz, would that be realistic , or (like ATC) would they really need a stout 200 wpc amp?

GhostintheToast · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Aug 2010, 11:39 pm »

I have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY. I personally would pay the additional $200 if it improved the look. Just one man's humble opinion.

More importantly, how much better does it sound than the LCY? Could someone hypothetically pick it out in a double-blind test?

coke · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 12:05 am »

Quote from: GhostintheToast on 13 Aug 2010, 11:39 pm

I have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY.

I agree, but I would personally choose improved sound over better looks.

DMurphy · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 12:07 am »

Quote from: Construct on 13 Aug 2010, 10:48 pm

You have my attention, especially for the price. If these were powered by a 100 watt amp in a 26x16 room with a sub crossed at 60hz, would that be realistic , or (like ATC) would they really need a stout 200 wpc amp?

The sensitivity hasn't changed--you can still run them with a good 35 watt tube amp.

DMurphy · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 12:09 am »

Quote from: GhostintheToast on 13 Aug 2010, 11:39 pm

I have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY. I personally would pay the additional $200 if it improved the look. Just one man's humble opinion.

More importantly, how much better does it sound than the LCY? Could someone hypothetically pick it out in a double-blind test?

If the test were an instant A-B, and if the program material contained lots of high frequency content, then yes--you would hear a difference, blinded or not.

jsalk · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 12:43 am »

GhostintheToast -

Quote from: GhostintheToast on 13 Aug 2010, 11:39 pm

I have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY. I personally would pay the additional $200 if it improved the look. Just one man's humble opinion.

More importantly, how much better does it sound than the LCY? Could someone hypothetically pick it out in a double-blind test?

I understand completely. But if we did aluminum baffles, we would have to produce scores of them to keep the cost down and everyone would have to purchase them. We simply couldn't afford to inventory all those baffles as an option without charging A LOT more for them. $200 does not even cover our cost for a pair when purchased in quantity.

We can still do them with the LCY and the aluminum baffles (until inventories of the baffles are gone).

But I think most people would prefer to keep the price as low as possible. Keep in mind that the aluminum baffles have no impact on sound quality.

All that said, if someone really wanted aluminum baffles and was willing to pay what it cost to produce them, we'd be happy to oblige - on any of our speaker models.

- Jim

rlee8394 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 02:52 am »

I made an inquiry to RAAL about the possibility of round faceplates. Here is Alex's response:

"Hello Ron,
 
I'm sorry about the delay, your message ended up in spam.
Thank you veru much for your interest in RAAL.
 
They are available with round plates if the client orders it that way. Minimum diameter is 110mm.
 
All the best,
 
Aleksandar Radisavljevic
RAAL advanced loudspeakers d.o.o."

This would imply that Jim could probably get a few 110 mm round plates for his RAAL tweeter. I personally would want the round plate as I feel the square plate just looks out of place. So a good question would be, could one use the round 110mm plates for the RAAL in the baffle for the LCY which is 110mm?

Just my $0.02 worth

Ron

Nuance · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 04:24 am »

Congrats, Mike, and welcome to the Salk family. You're making history with the first SongTower RAAL's! How cool is that!?

I look forward to your impressions, Mike.

Rocket · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 01:39 pm »

Hi Ron,

Well of course it would have to be an exact fit for this to occur. Are you possibly thinking of Jim offering an upgrade path for speakers in the field?

Regards

Rod

Saturn94 · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 01:54 pm »

Quote from: GhostintheToast on 13 Aug 2010, 11:39 pm

I have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY. I personally would pay the additional $200 if it improved the look. Just one man's humble opinion.

More importantly, how much better does it sound than the LCY? Could someone hypothetically pick it out in a double-blind test?

I have the exact opposite opinion.........I love the look (and sound!!!) of the new RAAL tweeter! I really didin't like the look of the LCY tweeter.

DMurphy · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 02:22 pm »

Just a note on any field retrofits. The flange outer diameter is the same, but the flange thinkness isn't (the LCY is much thicker) and the inner hole cutout wouldn't be the same. So there would be a whole lotta jig saw cutting and padding going on.

martyo · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 02:44 pm »

Quote

Quote
Quote from: GhostintheToast on Yesterday at 06:39 PMI have to be honest and say that the RAAL tweeter just does not look as sexy to me as does the LCY. I personally would pay the additional $200 if it improved the look. Just one man's humble opinion.

More importantly, how much better does it sound than the LCY? Could someone hypothetically pick it out in a double-blind test?

I have the exact opposite opinion.........I love the look (and sound!!!) of the new RAAL tweeter! I really didin't like the look of the LCY tweeter.

I never cared for the look of the LCY either. I have the G2 and think my brothers RAAL in his HT2-TL/RAAL looks cooler. I also prefer the look of the MDF baffle to the Aluminum after seeing my bro's HT2's, it's seamless. I hear the RAAL as an upgrade to the G2, which is an upgrade to the LCY.

I hear it as more bang for the buck.

Very nice Mike!

srb · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 02:51 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 14 Aug 2010, 02:22 pm

Just a note on any field retrofits. The flange outer diameter is the same, but the flange thinkness isn't (the LCY is much thicker) and the inner hole cutout wouldn't be the same. So there would be a whole lotta jig saw cutting and padding going on.

Didn't the tweeter crossover require some change as well?

Steve

jsalk · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Aug 2010, 03:47 pm »

Quote from: srb on 14 Aug 2010, 02:51 pm

Didn't the tweeter crossover require some change as well?

Steve

Yes, it is an entirely different crossover.

Everything is possible. But the more options you offer, the higher the cost becomes. At some point, it just doesn't make sense.

When you start adding things up, a tweeter upgrade to the SongTowers with the RAAL (round faceplate or regular) and an aluminum baffle would approach $1000 on a basic $2000 speaker. Does that make sense?

We could certainly do it, but I doubt too many people would order it. And you just can't make small numbers of aluminum baffles for those who would because the set-up is expensive. Once set up, you can machine all day long. But to set up and only run a few pairs would likely be very expensive on a per piece basis. In addition, there would be a cost associated with inventorying aluminum baffles which would not sell that fast. That is why we could not afford to offer MDF baffles with the LCY as a lower cost option. It was either all aluminum baffles or none. And it is also why we decided not to pursue aluminum baffles on other speaker models.

For a lot less money, you can use hardwood trim and eliminate the black MDF baffles entirely. And I think that option looks better than either baffle option.

Just some random thoughts...

- Jim