[TheeeChosenOne]

I want to visit Australia sooo badly.

I think I must have been Australian in my previous life as I instinctively want to move there.  My wife has no interest though.   She says its too far from everything (i.e. US, Europe, etc).

I also wonder what city would be a good retirement city to buy a nice place that ain't overpriced....

[Rocket]

hi theeechosenone,

if you have a spare $200 000au/$308 000us you can buy a modern 4 bedroom home 20 minutes from the city and 30 minutes to the beach.

the only trouble Perth is 4000klms west of sydney, Perth is very isolated  
 .

i really want to travel to the us since i was a kid.

regards

rocket

[JohnR]

Cripes, you'd be lucky to get a doghouse in Sydney for that much... !

BTW A$200k = US$140k

[Edit: hope that didn't offend anybody. But yeah, Sydney real estate prices now are crazy! Still, maybe not as much as SF or New York, I dunno.]

[audiojerry]

How can anyone get an idea of where to live without any discussion of beer? Which town has the best draft?

[TG]

Sydney is a gas   it's the biggest and oldest city in Oz (about 4 million) and has grown up around what is arguably the most beautiful harbour anywhere.  There are terrific beaches and any type or variety of entertainment you want from the world's largest Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras to the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, resident at the Sydney Opera House.

It's relaxed and easygoing - probably more stress than any other Aussie city, but in comparison to London or the Big Apple ...

It's also very cosmopolitan - a lot more so than European cities.  Being comparatively young, and the major entry point for many immigrants, it has a strong & diverse ethnic mix.  Combine that with excellent fresh produce and you get a city groaning with restaurants representing any cuisine you can name.  When we were in Rome a couple of years ago I noticed about 3 restaurants in the whole city that weren't just variations on your basic Italian cuisine.  In Sydney there are 48 different ethnic eateries in one suburb (The Glebe).

Sydney is geographically a BIG city, and it can be difficult to get around but personally I find that part of its charm.  The older parts weren't planned, and there's none of the gridiron pattern you find in US cities - it just grew and evolved over the last 200 years and that makes it interesting & attractive.  It also has the lowest population density of any city of 3 million+ in the world.

It is incredibly spread-out.  That has two effects, it means that the majority of the population live in houses in leafy suburbs rather than in high rise apartements (although there's plenty of that), and it also means it takes literally 2-4 hours to drive from one side of the city to the other, depending on traffic.

In fact the satellite cities and towns to the north, west and south are now almost suburbs of Sydney.

To the north is the Hawkesbury River region and the Hunter valley which produces some of the best wines in the country.  To the west is the Blue Mountains - 2 hours and you're in a major world heritage listed national park loaded with great places to stay for a weekend away.  To the south are the Shoalhaven and Illawarra regions.  Old rural areas just starting to become yuppified.

What a great place - imagine a combination of the best aspects of New York and San Francisco but with only 4 million people.

Did I mention I love my city

[TG]

Which town has the best draft?

Easy one - Picton.

http://www.realbeer.co.nz/destinations/sydney/scharers.html

Best beer I've ever tasted - a bit like Cooper's Ale, but with a softer and more malty flavour.  The bottled stuff is OK, but for the real deal you have to go to the pub itself and have a draught pint.  Hmmm, I'm getting all thirsty now

[lonewolfny42]

Cripes, you'd be lucky to get a doghouse in Sydney for that much... !

BTW A$200k = US$140k

[Edit: hope that didn't offend anybody. But yeah, Sydney real estate prices now are crazy! Still, maybe not as much as SF or New York, I dunno.]

Most houses here in Nassau County,Long Island,NY are in the range of $ 400,000.US and up. Bought my present house in 1987 for $230,000. US , price now is around $425,000. US.But property taxes are high in NY,this house $6,100. US and going up.

[TheeeChosenOne]

TG,
Sydney sounds wonderful.  So how much for a 4 bedroom in a nice region of town?

NYC and SF are my two favorite US cities (as well as Miami in 3rd).  If Sydney combines all of these elements, then it is a truly amazing place!

I know one American chap from NYC who moved there for work.  He liked it so much, he gave up his US citizenship and became an Aussie.  

[Rocket]

hi guys,

whoops i converted that back to front, $200 000au/$129 444us for a 4 bedroom home 20 minutes from the city in perth.

tg:  i agree with lots of what your saying but the best of sydney suburbs are getting very expensive, way beyond what i could ever afford.  if i returned to sydney i'd probably have to buy a house in Rooty Hill or Mount Druit  .

if i had the $$$ and a well paying job i would either live inner west (Drummoyne) or the northshore of sydney.  i also lived in penrith for a couple of years and had to drive to sydney in peak hour once, it was a very stressful and frustrating experience.  in perth we don't have those problems i drove from my home to joondalup the other week (sold my Pt dac   ) which is about 45 klms and it took about 40 minutes.

sydney in my opinion is the best location in australia, 5 - 6 hours for skiing, 1 day drive to brisbane and melbourne.

regards

rocket

[Andy G]

a 4 bedroom house will not give you much change from $1mil aud !!

[EchiDna]

Culture and Sydney *ahem* be honest, no true music/arts/theatre lover would consider Sydney to be in the same league as Melbourne, sure there is great stuff in Sydney and this is nit picking, however...

I'd rather live in ANY Aussie city including Adelaide (in joke for Aussies) than live elsewhere...

I'm from Melbourne, but my heart is in Australia, anywhere in Australia...

regarding winter, well living here in the tropics (Singapore), I miss the cold, hence a trip home in the next few weeks for a snowboard  

[TG]

Culture and Sydney *ahem* be honest, no true music/arts/theatre lover would consider Sydney to be in the same league as Melbourne, sure there is great stuff in Sydney and this is nit picking, however...

Oh-oh, the old "Melbourne has the culture" line  
For our overseas friends' benefit, this is a "friendly debate" which has been going on for the last couple of hundred years (Sydney has the lifestyle vs. Melbourne has the culture)   .  All Sydneysiders know that this is just hooey but Melbournians are terribly sensitive about living in the second best city in the nation, so we play along with the arguement for their sake  

[TG]

TG,
Sydney sounds wonderful.  So how much for a 4 bedroom in a nice region of town?

A nice big 4 bedroom terrace in the inner city area, or a freestanding house in a good suburb a little further out would be around $650,000+.

It depends a lot on transport - the northern beaches are a really nice area to live, but a long way from the CBD, so you can get the odd bargain up there.  The north shore of Sydney Harbour east of the Harbour Bridge is one of the premium areas.  A good house with a water view would be several million.  We have a 2 story, 3 bedroom townhouse in a complex of 30 townhouses in Gladesville, which is north shore but to the west.  It cost in the low $300k region 5 years ago, but is probably worth a good bit more now.  Sydney isn't cheap but mind you, nowhere on the east coast of Australia is cheap anymore.  A good 4 bedroom house with a water view in most any little town up the coast will cost a million.

[EchiDna]

Oh-oh, the old "Melbourne has the culture" line  
For our overseas friends' benefit, this is a "friendly debate" which has been going on for the last couple of hundred years (Sydney has the lifestyle vs. Melbourne has the culture)   .  All Sydneysiders know that this is just hooey but Melbournians are terribly sensitive about living in the second best city in the nation, so we play along with the arguement for their sake  

you know the funny thing about this debate... I've NEVER heard a Melbournian start such a discussion
Ask yourself where the national gallery, symphony orchestra, ballet are...

Sydney? I think not... go on, pull out the beaches card, it's up next  

then I got coffee, affordable restraunts, Hugh Dean    hehehe

you know another weird thing about Australia, of the capital cities, only Brisbane and Hobart don't have a great wine region close to the city...
If there is nothing else we can agree on, our wines are the best bang for buck in the world, especially in Oz

[TheeeChosenOne]

you know the funny thing about this debate... I've NEVER heard a Melbournian start such a discussion  
If there is nothing else we can agree on, our wines are the best bang for buck in the world, especially in Oz .

1.)  Reminds me of the old LA vs. San Francisco debate.  SFers always pick on vain, shallow LA.     LAers always say "Geez, thanks for thinking of us, b/c we NEVER think of you."     Ouch.  Many LAers will tell you this.  SFers sound like a dumped-on girlfriend trying to get back with the boyfriend who's moved on to 3 girls already.   (I once lived at one point in time in both areas, so it's funny to notice this).

2.)  Yessss, Aussies has some GREAT wines and they're getting better and better every year.  Chile also has that same great price/quality ratio.  S. Africa will also make an impact in the next 10 years if they get their act together.

[JohnR]

you know the funny thing about this debate... I've NEVER heard a Melbournian start such a discussion

Heh heh, Glen I have to laugh, but didn't *you* start the Melbourne vs Sydney thing in this thread?  

If there is nothing else we can agree on, our wines are the best bang for buck in the world, especially in Oz

I'll drink to that!

On the real estate, goodness but what I'm seeing up in here in the Northern Beaches is 350k *starters* for a one-bedroom apartment of no particular merit. Houses seem to be going for around 800k at the bottom of the "affordable" range. Now personally I think this is ridiculous, in fact there was (yet another) article in the paper today about how the Sydney real estate market is overheated and concerns that it's going to collapse in a heap and bring the economy down with it...  

[Edit] Here's the article:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/20/1058639665357.html

[TG]

Hugh Dean    hehehe

OK - that's one point I'll freely admit - considering the population Sydney has a surprisingly small proportion of audio manufacturers.

you know another weird thing about Australia, of the capital cities, only Brisbane and Hobart don't have a great wine region close to the city...

Hmm, true about Brisbane - Tassie has some very nice wineries in the north which are a few hours drive from Hobart.  They make some excellent cold climate wines.

[EchiDna]

I'll drink to that!

Heh heh, Glen I have to laugh, but didn't *you* start the Melbourne vs Sydney thing in this thread?  

[ ...

bugger! you know what, I got that idea into my head from the intro's thread... bah!

anyway, I could be livin in Sydney soon enough... a transfer 'home' is in the wind...

[JohnR]

Heh, OK fair enough I was the one that started it in the Intro thread  

anyway, I could be livin in Sydney soon enough... a transfer 'home' is in the wind...

Cool! It's been a while for you? Some of my 'merkin (ie expat Aussies, gone for good) friends told me I'd be screaming to leave again, but I think their implants are just overactive, nothing along those lines has happened yet -- not by a long shot  

[EchiDna]

Heh, OK fair enough I was the one that started it in the Intro thread  

anyway, I could be livin in Sydney soon enough... a transfer 'home' is in the wind...

Cool! It's been a while for you? Some of my 'merkin (ie expat Aussies, gone for good) friends told me I'd be screaming to leave again, but I think their implants are just overactive, nothing along those lines has happened yet -- not by a long shot  

6 years thus far in Singapore. I love it, but feel the need for a spell back home, who knows I might just stay too....
 Maybe on the move a whole 300km's to Kuala Lumpur, a lot further to Hong Kong or to Shanghai, Sydney, Perth.... not sure which yet