[Rokitman]

I am in the construction phase of my basement media/theater room. The room is 19' X 14'6" X 7'7".

I will be using my Maneplanar 1.6QR's as main channels with the Maggie CC3 in the center and MC1's as surrounds.  I am shopping for a great subwoofer and was lucky enough to happen upon this "circle". I really like what is being said about the New Larger Subwoofer and feel it would be just what I'm looking for except for one thing....it's BIG!!....which brings me to the reason for this post. What are the consequences of building-in the sub into the front wall? I realize that I would lose the ability to move it around the room for fine tuning. Is there a rule of thumb for placement that would give me a chance for acquiring the smoothest response? Can you share any success stories of similar installations?

Thank you for any and all suggestions.

[ekovalsky]

A VMPS Larger won't work properly in-wall.  Best bets are in a corner or at the half or quarter points along one of the walls.  Two would be better than one also.

If you have a large closet, crawlspace, etc adjacent to your room, you should consider an infinite baffle design with the subs built into the wall.  The rear of the drivers will open into a large space, effectively eliminating the out-of-phase rear wave from the listening room while avoiding any spring effect on the driver, like a sealed box would have.
 
http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv126368/shop/catalog/images/IB15.jpg

A few of these and a Crown K2 and crossover and you will be set.

Thanks for Andrikos for turning me onto the IB concept.  I only wish my room could accomodate it.

[ctviggen]

I think a VMPS sub would work in a wall, if you put a hole in the wall for the slot (where the passive radiator is/fires out of).  Naturally, you'd have to also put a hole for each driver.  You could also put the sub on its side (slot up and down).  If you couldn't make at least these holes, then the sub wouldn't work (or at least not well, as covering the slot would mean the passive radiator wouldn't work correctly, and covering the drivers wouldn't be good).  

So, how would you put the sub in the wall?  Would you cut a hole big enough for the entire sub (including slot), then cover with fabric?  That could work.  There's a whole thread on sub placement:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15640

Also, you can find more useful information with a Google search.

[rosconey]

buy the vmps drivers kit and have a custom tallboy cabinet made(the original large were made this way).
in all honesty its not that huge of a cabinet,my room is about 11x13 and it fits ok in a front corner-but a tallboy would fit better.

i came close to a ib setup ,but the thought of ever moving equipment into another room kept me from doing one-its much easier to move a vmps large.

[Rokitman]

Thanks for your responses. I guess I didn't make myself perfectly clear on what I had in mind. I was thinking of building an alcove into my front wall that has a storage room behind to accept the bump-out. It would be sized to accept the Larger Sub that would then end up flush with the surface of the wall.

This storage area is not suitable for an IB since the furnace is also in this area and one of my main objectives is to keep the noise of the furnace from intruding into my theater room. An IB would not allow any soundproofing.

I'm not totally against having a big box in the room. After all, those Maggies definitely need to be well into the room, so it's not like I'm trying to have an invisible system. But since I am still in the early phase of construction to be able to hide such a large box, I would ask here if there are any serious drawbacks to such an idea. Sound quality is still the highest of priorities, so if the consensus is that it's a bad idea, a big box in the room will have to suffice.

Any suggestions from the VMPS people?

[John Casler]

Thanks for your responses. I guess I didn't make myself perfectly clear on what I had in mind. I was thinking of building an alcove into my front wall that has a storage room behind to accept the bump-out. It would be sized to accept the Larger Sub that would then end up flush with the surface of the wall.

This storage area is not suitable for an IB since the furnace is also in this area and one of my main objectives is to keep the noise of the furnace from intruding into my theater room. An IB would no ...

Hi Rockitman,

Actually that would likely work fine.  In fact it could actually work better than having the box in the room.

The reason is that when the box (cabinet) sits in the room, the low frequency waves move not only forward, but actually radiate all around the cabinet, until they hit a solid surface (wall ceiling floor) to either bounce off as in deflection or refelction or if the angle of incidence is small then they will travel along the boundary.

By placing the cabinet "in" the wall, the wall surface offers a cleaner wave launch.  Only problem is placing the "alcove" in the best spot.

I like Eric's suggestion of having it in the center of the front wall.  Corner loading will offer more room gain, but possibly at the expense of locational cues. (not from the sub, but room vibrations).

If possible I would also follow Eric's suggestion, and get TWO Largers and place one in the front Center and one in the rear Center wall, as the push pull I suggested in another thread.

My recent Sub experimentations have given me great results using that technique.

Your biggest drawback is that the placement is "fixed", but I think if you can do the push/pull thing you'll have exactly what you want and more.

[Rokitman]

Thank you so much, John.

I think I'll try the alcove idea. At the very worst, I'll end up with an unused big hole in my front wall that I'll have to hide. Location can be flexible and centered will be the chosen spot.

I have been following your posts regarding the multiple sub placements and could definitely see myself chasing the same results. In my case, the rear sub will have to be "in the room" as my rear wall does not allow the flexibility of any built-ins, but I'm sure that will be an advantage in fine tuning for smoothest response.

I'll be in touch soon about ordering a Larger Kit w/o cabinet. Do you include a recommended cabinet plan with the kit? I'm pretty lucky having a father-in-law that is a carpenter/cabinet maker, one brother in the wholesale wood products business(cheap MDF and baltic birch ply) and another brother in the pro-sound trade (great source of inexpensive pro audio gear)

[John Casler]

Thank you so much, John.

I think I'll try the alcove idea. At the very worst, I'll end up with an unused big hole in my front wall that I'll have to hide. Location can be flexible and centered will be the chosen spot.

I have been following your posts regarding the multiple sub placements and could definitely see myself chasing the same results. In my case, the rear sub will have to be "in the room" as my rear wall does not allow the flexibility of any built-ins, but I'm sure that will be an advantage  ...

Great!.

Do take as much care as possible to "enclose" the LARGER.

Once in place and wired, a simple molding or frame over the front edges (so there is no gap)  would help translate and channel the side waves.

Left and right room corners should have traps or treatment if possible.

Contact Brian directly about Kit/Cabinet questions.

Let me know if I can offer any additional help.

[doug s.]

i would recommend against getting a larger sub.  coupla reasons.  1st, stereo subs are *always* better than a single sub, for several reasons.  less distortion at any given spl.  better imaging/soundstaging.  easier to place w/o exciting room nodes.

given the size of your room, i would recommend a pair of original, or even smaller subs, over a single larger.  you will end up w/much better 2-channel audio, imo.  re: getting a pair of largers for your room, i don't really think it will offer much over a pair of originals or smallers, considering your room size.  note that i have *nothing* against the larger subs - i own a pair!    the room they are used in, tho, is *considerably* bigger...

doug s.

[brj]

I agree that amount of bass won't be an issue with any of those subs, but don't the largers go deeper?  (I can't remember the specs offhand.)

[doug s.]

I agree that amount of bass won't be an issue with any of those subs, but don't the largers go deeper?  (I can't remember the specs offhand.)

iirc, the larger goes to 17hz/-3bd, the original is 19hz/-3db, & the smaller is 24hz/-3db.  (w/megawoofers.)  in a room that size, i really tink even the smaller would be *more* than adequate, especially if yure using two of 'em.  i have a pair of yamaha yst-sw305's in a room ~15x24x8, & they easily energize the room.  these are rated at 28hz/-3db...

doug s.

[Andrikos]

Thanks for Andrikos for turning me onto the IB concept. I only wish my room could accomodate it.

Thanks. I'm just propagating the word of IB.
How's your project going?

[warnerwh]

Someone should mention that when it's a VMPS sub spec saying 17hz that means with power.  Most speakers I've ever heard make claims of low frequency use but when you hear them it's like it's hardly there and very weak. VMPS bass has much power and the specs that Brian gives are pretty honest. I've owned two pair and in both cases bass was flat to the 20's with ease.  Enough air is moved that can actually make you nauseus and make all the pictures on other floors of the house get crooked.