AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Well Tempered Lab => Topic started by: ADiG on 16 May 2013, 10:41 am
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In the Munich High End Show, presentation of new series of WTL Amadeus, A. GTA and Versalex equipped with new tonearm Symmetrex
The new series is called: MKII
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80581)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80582)
Old series: Amadeus, Amadeus GTA and Versalex can be upgraded by changing the tube of tonearm
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Good to see the wire exiting to the side at the back of the arm. This has been a problem with my ltd as the wire has partly worn through from contacting the cup edge. I look foraard to replacing it with this new one.
Steve
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Getting rid of the two heavy pillars should help keep the right side from sagging.
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Any price updates?
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IT'S AN ABOMINATION!
Marketing gone amuck!
I do believe, gents, I'll be sticking with my original, thank you very much.
Sign me, Duly Unimpressed....and slightly depressed...
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Forgot one... SYMMETREX?
Sounds like L Ron Hubbard wordage..or concrete bonding agent.
:(
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I do like the fact that there is one less mechanical connection between the cartridge and interconnects. Other than that this "upgrade" has me scratching my head. :scratch:
Doak
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IT'S AN ABOMINATION!
Marketing gone amuck!
I do believe, gents, I'll be sticking with my original, thank you very much.
Sign me, Duly Unimpressed....and slightly depressed...
do not lose heart, I believe that in the end, the difference between GTA and GTA MK II is just aesthetics. The principle of operation is identical. and then ... missing the mirror! :wink:
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Forgot one... SYMMETREX?
Sounds like L Ron Hubbard wordage..or concrete bonding agent.
Actually the first thing I thought of was a drug.
Ask your doctor if Symmetrex is right for you.
"Symmetrex - making you better than you really are"
Possible side effects may include Depression, General Discomfort, Headaches, Blurred or Distorted Vision, Loss of Balance, Drymouth, Numbness, Periodontal Disease, Lockjaw, Tremors, Heart Palpitations, Varicose Veins, Liver Damage, Kidney Damage, Loss of Taste, Loss of Smell, Loss of Sight, Early Alzheimers, Cardiac Arrest, and in extremely rare cases....Death
Steve
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The only difference between that arm and the current LTD arm is that they have replaced the top 1/2 of the golf ball with a metal casting and rotated the rear wire exit point 90ยบ round the arm tube. So from my pov, having the current LTD, it is an improvement.
As for the naming, it seems bit daft but it doesnt trouble me at all.
Steve
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Before passing judgement, maybe listening to it and using it is in order?
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I hope Charlie is wrong and its more than just a marketing exercise. If it is then my guess is that the design change is linked to the aesthetic stigma associated with the golf ball. The arm wire now exiting from the side is obviously positive. However I will have to hear a sound improvement to part with 400 GBP to have my LTD brought up to spec....
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Some details here, which suggest an improvement due to a shifting of the pivot point relative to the center of gravity:
http://totallywired.co.nz/welltempered.html
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Boy look at those prices jump:
Simplex - NZ$2995 including arm and basic power supply. (=$2480 USD)
Amadeus MK2 - $3995 including new Symmetrex arm & power supply. (=$3310 USD)
Amadeus GTA - $5995 including LTD/Symmetrex arm & power supply. (=$4968 USD)
Versalex - $5995 including LT/Symmetrex D tone arm. (=$4948 USD)
Of course we will need to find out if the US pricing differs from the New Zealant pricing.
Price of progress I suppose.
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Oh, I love to be wrong....
We'll see. It is retrofitable..if it does end up working/sounding better.
I don't mind at all if Firebaugh makes changes he thinks sounds better. When you think about it, it is still a fairly new product, and many designers make some initial changes.
But WTL marketers have had some bad ideas...so we'll see...
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Here's hoping some folks in this circle can demo the new arm from a dealer and report back.
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Oh, and I missed this:
Symmetrex upgrade for existing Amadeus & GT - NZ$500 (=$414 USD).
That's not so bad. Certainly seen worse...
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It's certainly a more polished looking unit and the article states the technical reasons for the change.
It should be a good thing for the company.
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Here's hoping some folks in this circle can demo the new arm from a dealer and report back.
I plan to visit my dealers this week for a listen to the DPS so if he's got the Symmetrex mod fitted to his Versalex I will check it out and report back.
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Some details here, which suggest an improvement due to a shifting of the pivot point relative to the center of gravity:
http://totallywired.co.nz/welltempered.html
They made that change while still using a complete golf ball. I am not sure how many got out into the wild but I was supplied one as a replacement for my current arm. I never got round to using it before seeing some pictures of the new one and deciding to hold off for that, so dont know if the shift of the thread position makes any audable difference.
Steve
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well a great benefit to a new model would be all of those old models soon to be sold off on ebay. Maybe I will get my chance to move from a WTC to a WTL
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well a great benefit to a new model would be all of those old models soon to be sold off on ebay. Maybe I will get my chance to move from a WTC to a WTL
Good luck - though my WTA won't be going anywhere. :icon_lol:
Doak
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well a great benefit to a new model would be all of those old models soon to be sold off on ebay. Maybe I will get my chance to move from a WTC to a WTL
I doubt if you'll see anything of the sort. Most current WTA owners are pretty content with their present set-ups. (and that includes me) Those who are curious will do the tonearm upgrade. Chances are better that any remaining older version WTA's ( $2850 ) will look more desirable than ever.
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In my opinion, it makes no sense to change by Amadeus/Amadeus GTA and their respective versions MKII.
If you notice well, apart from the fact that they hide the golf ball that many do not like, it seems that the designer, after Symplex and Versalex, where the arm through the ball, and returned to the tonearm above, increasing the distance between the barrel of the arm and the joint, as occurs in the LTD Symmetrex (but it was already so nell'Amadeus)!
Probably the squash ball under the tonearm will not suffer under the weight of the new arm - it means that we will try with the squash ball with the blue point! :D
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In my opinion, it makes no sense to change by Amadeus/Amadeus GTA and their respective versions MKII.
Makes sense if the sound is improved.
See the link that I posted above for a discussion of the claimed sonic benefits of the new design (shifting the center of gravity relative to the pivot point).
Heck, also makes sense if the revised cosmetics lead to greater sales and customer (or spouse) satisfaction. Many audiophiles and their spouses are concerned about both the look and sound of their systems.
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Very true... Most audiophiles buy with their eyes.
And agree, no one will dump their older models, since one can upgrade if desired.
I'll admit, it does have a cleaner look, much like the original WTL arm championed by J Gordon Holt.
I still don't like that the tonearm cables now attach to the arm post- one has to hold tightly the junction box so that the arm doesn't move about.
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Very true... Most audiophiles buy with their eyes.
And agree, no one will dump their older models, since one can upgrade if desired.
I'll admit, it does have a cleaner look, much like the original WTL arm championed by J Gordon Holt.
I still don't like that the tonearm cables now attach to the arm post- one has to hold tightly the junction box so that the arm doesn't move about.
Yes, I have to totally agree on that one. I really like where the RCA's are mounted on the original version. Sometimes I wonder why they don't make the tonearm/headshell one monolithic piece instead of having the single screw attachment between headshell and arm tube. It is totally optimized in that position. Why not "mold" the headshell into the arm tube? On a minor note, I don't think it would take a lot more engineering to incorporate a system for making minor leveling adjustments built into the table itself. Now with all this said, I still must admit I totally pleased with my current WTA as is. Sonically it's spooky good.....maybe even great.
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What am I missing. How can this be upgraded from the present Amadeus? There is only one small hole in the plinth of the MK II and the original has 2 large holes for the ball cup and the arm tower.
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Okay, here we go...this is how it works.
Firebaugh has been playing again, and engineering-wise likes this new approach to floating the arm, hence the new look of the ball, or half ball now. Not sure if the change is engineering only or if there is also sonic improvement. So that's how all the new balls and arm tubes will be shipped. For the mkii you'll get that, with all tables having only the ltd arm. For we Originals, if you want to retrofit, we'll keep our suspension and arm rest pillars. You'll get the new ball and arm tube, that's all.
As someone said, the holes are too big on the original. And don't start thinking of drilling a small hole.
So that's it, in a poorly worded nutshell. :roll:
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The UK appears to be the last place to import new WT products and upgrades. My dealer hadn't heard of it when I told him of my knowledge of it. He phoned John Burns the importer who said the Symmetrex modified arm isn't in production yet. The Audio Circle forum is certainly the place to be for breaking WT news :D
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Apparently so... not here in the States yet either..
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Friends,
you are all invited to put "like" on the page Well Tempered Lab on Facebook!
Thank you! :D
https://www.facebook.com/#!/WellTemperedLab (https://www.facebook.com/#!/WellTemperedLab)
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I can see how having less metal for the smaller cup, less silicone, and smaller diameter "ball" might mean better weight distribution. Meaning, less chance that the squash balls on the right will go flat before the ones on the left.
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I can see how having less metal for the smaller cup, less silicone, and smaller diameter "ball" might mean better weight distribution. Meaning, less chance that the squash balls on the right will go flat before the ones on the left.
IMO that's not why it has been done and my experience is differant to yours regarding the feet. The vertical tracking angle is now improved across the whole record due to better filament geometry and on my Versalex the front left squash ball is under the most pressure due to the platter being offset to that position. Still the case. Symmetrex mod has made the deck more dynamic. Not that it wasn't that way before. Superb sound now.
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Can you explain more about VTA being affected by the filament shape? What was the cross-section shape before, and what is it now?
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Have the new arm and a borrowed Te Kaitora Rua and right now I am asking myself - can it really get better than this?
Steve
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Have the new arm and a borrowed Te Kaitora Rua and right now I am asking myself - can it really get better than this?
Steve
Probably not Steve. Not heard them as a combination but I like you am enjoying the Symmetrex improvement and I heard the Te Kaitora in a pre arm upgraded Versalex last year and decided that would be a future purchase. Over here in the UK the Linn'ees scoff at my view that our deck is an LP12 beater but I don't care. Spent a lot of money on black discs recently which have never sounded as good. Enjoy! P.S I'm interested to know if Charlie has heard the Amadeus 2 against his original vintage.
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But why do I keep finding myseff wundering about the XV1s?
I have compared my deck (old arm and XX2) with a well sorted LP12 fitted with a Kleos. They were different and each beat the other in certain aspects. The LP12 owner & I couldn't pick a clear winner so we had a beer instead. He did say if he was starting again he might not choose an LP12.
Steve
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Well even if there were parity between the two decks surely for the the WT variants are a bargain at such a low cost! I still prefer my Versalex to even a belts and braces LP12 on Jazz, Blues and Classical music. The LP12 (with Naim amplification) might appeal to our hard rock instincts but not our delicate sensibilities like a Versalex or Amadeus. All just my opinion from experience.
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Interesting...
A starter Lp12 these days is getting up there in price, which makes it not even an option compared to the WTL's, and even others like a Kuzma. And the upgrades are not cheap either.
No, still haven't heard the new version, Rob, my distributor is lazy! Lol... I've been promised I'll get to hear it soon. Will let you know...
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I shouldn't assume but take your wallet with you Charlie :D
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Lol! Agreed, Rob.
Unlike so many idiotic "improvements" I read about on here by well meaning yet clueless folks, this comes from Firebaugh... and not the marketing geniuses of New Zealand, either. This should be great and worthwhile...should be a great fall listening season once I get it...
Cheers!
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It would be informative to others if any technical info regarding the LTD arms could be passed along to the rest of the forum. Otherwise it sounds like ad copy.
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It would be informative to others if any technical info regarding the LTD arms could be passed along to the rest of the forum. Otherwise it sounds like ad copy.
I didn't design it so not am not qualified to provide detailed technical info. It's an audio product. The upgrade sounds better in Steve's and my opinion. That's what we are passing on.
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And as I've constantly stated, I'm not technically inclined, so no input from me there. I do know what you were doing with your arm/cartridge is wrong, and Mr P will/can tell you why, but not I.
As for the LTD? I don't like. Not a fan of the cabling coming right off the arm. So see? I'm not writing ad copy either. I know what I know by listening and experience, not theory or home brew experimentation.
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Actually, if you think about just the concept of (rather than the technical side) an additional "accepted" alignment to the pair of Lofgrens and Stevenson methods, like one has to with Firebaugh's new alignment, then how does experimenting with adding overhang to the WTL alignment seem wrong? Not to mention VPI's alignment, or other proprietary approaches. Makes one think that it might not make sense to just accept the approach, since there are so many others, especially if you are not getting great results.
Alignment is all geometry and first year calculus, and I'd like to lift the discussion out of the realm of he untouchable. It's something you can learn from through the experiment, and you won't break anything in the process if you're careful.
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Now that sounds logical to me.
Although in my limited, very limited, realm of technical knowledge, I wouldn't mix designer's theories.
Firebaugh is a brilliant engineer. Harry Weisfield a brilliant marketer.
I have been told that trying to adjust overhang on an WTL product the way you have been is the wrong approach, and will yield poor results. I cannot engage in any technical discussion, and I apologize for that.
I would say enjoy what you are doing if you like it. However, if we were properly moderated, lol, gotcha, Mr P, that your ideas would get shot down.
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Well that would be a sad thing indeed, if that would be what Mr. P would do. Seems sharing of experiences with WTL products among owners would be supported, otherwise, what is the intent of this circle?
On the other hand, I think that what staunch supporters on this circle might be reading into my experimentation as questioning Firebaugh's methods is not accurate; it's actually misguided. If a novel approach such as Firebaugh's works, why not try to figure out why?
In the practical sciences, which is my field, we run into this situation all the time: On the face of it, an approach may deviate from the "known", and yet still achieve a stated goal or outcome. If tested enough by trained individuals, then this novel approach might also become a known. Sound familiar? It's the scientific method.
Then again, others may not want to go down this road, which is completely understandable. But don't criticize my approach, it's not wrong, plain and simple, it's probably how Firebaugh himself arrived at his alignment: trial and error, observation of changes, comparing results against other trials, etc. etc.
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Good points.. What I've heard and seen of Mr F, one has to be sharp as a tack to keep up.
As for what you're doing, my only input could be if I sat there and listened to your system before and after, or to make the correct test, properly set up by Mr P or F, and then listen to your experiment. Then I'd have insightful input. Otherwise I'm useless.
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Being a scientist also, one would assume Mr. Firebaugh would not take it personally if someone tested his hypotheses. Peer review: it's the name of the game.
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Agreed... I wouldn't think so either. Just be on your game! Lol
And I do understand you wanting to dissect it. I just want to listen.
Now let me ask you one question...
The Simplex sounds fine, better than Regas and VPI's in that range.
Yet that lil arm feels horrible to use. My scientific term would be rinkydink.
How can you stand to cue with it?
I 'll take my answer off the air, if you please....
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Again, I've gone through peer review for my own publications, so one has to learn to not get their ego too wrapped up in all of this.
What I am actually seeking is the bounds outside of which the new alignment might not work, i.e. are there carts that work better than others, of a given mounting hole-to-stylus distance? This is not about me proving anybody wrong or right. This is a hobby and we want to listen to music.
Anyway, the Simplex arm is well-balanced and easy to cue. You might just be used to the longer arm is all.
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Now you're down on my level--- your answer doesn't correlate to my findings...your sample needs to be larger. My lab rats all gravitate to the Anadeus. Anyone who's tried it (the Simplex arm) seems to object strongly once presented with the Amadeus...
That's all I got..
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I've cued up the Amadeus too. Maybe I'm just used to 9" arms.
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Now I can add one more...
That is very unscientific. It's been proven and written about since the early days of hifi that a longer tone arm is best. You with your short arm- tsk tsk... Lol
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Funny, but it seems like I'm not the one with something to "prove" here. Nothing wrong with simply having a preference; no need to cite anything else other than what you feel.
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But in all seriousness, what about the filament might lead to effects on VTA? Anyone know?
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But in all seriousness, what about the filament might lead to effects on VTA? Anyone know?
I can only comment on my experience with Versalex with LTD arm and I'm not a scientist like yourself but I can relate my experience with VTA before and after the Symmetrex mod. Prior to Symmetrex the filament attached to the nibs on the golf ball at a wider point. With the recommended single filament twist from spindle to ball to create the correct anti skate the cartridge could not remain in a vertical tracking position across the entire LP. I believe this was due to the geometrical way in which the filament crossed over itself as it moved across the LP. I set things up so the cartridge was vertical at the LP mid way point accepting that the cartridge would be a couple of degrees or so out either way at the beginning and end. During a conversation with the WTL importer John Burns he informed me that vertical tracking angle does not have an effect on the tracking ability and therefore sound quality. However to my mind this is where the big change seems to be in the new design and the sound has definitely improved. The cartridge now remains vertical all the way across the record. I would be interested to hear your theory and any others regarding this.
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Interesting. I have not seen or heard the same issue with my stubby 9"...but small changes over your longer arm might be more noticeable and measureable - here, if there are any changes, they are on the order of tenths of degrees.
Does your filament have a round cross-section?
Did you notice VTA changes when listening? Visually? Both?
PS let's get straight that being a scientist only means you stick to a prescribed method for observation and testing hypotheses - it doesn't mean that scientists are necessarily inherently better at observation. Hopefully there is also less of a tendency towards "one right way" thinking.
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I appreciate your comments.
In answer to your questions, yes the filament is round in cross section. The small variation in VTR as the cartridge crossed the LP manifested itself sound wise as a very slight channel volume imbalance moving from right to left as the angle changed. I didn't hear any mistracking however even on difficuilt end of side tracks. The sound now is noticeably a little more solid and dynamic with obviously no sound volume imbalance. Well worth the upgrade cost IMO.
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Rob400: initially when I read your comments about VTA changing due to filament geometry, I thought that it would more likely affect azimuth, rather than VTA, due to variations in the cross-sectional diameter. Given your experience of channel imbalance, it sounds more like azimuth-related issues?
Lastly, and back to the original topic, how did they change the approach to hanging the arm with the Symmetrex arm?
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I think he means azimuth too. Mine was always out of adjustment by the end of the LP.
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Funny, I just checked azimuth, and found that it has drifted after the listening sessions I just posted about. Ok, learn something new every day.
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I think he means azimuth too. Mine was always out of adjustment by the end of the LP.
I did mean both. To minimise the off set I set everything up with the cartridge at the half eay across the LP position.
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Try hitting the line with some contact cleaner and see if that doesn't help the azimuth stay put.
You'd think there would be some way to make it set it and forget it with his designs.
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I think the issue is related to the lack of friction, and the smooth filament being the pathway for releasing the skating forces, which is causing azimuth drift. I would think the higher end models with the metal gasket would have more drift issues than the more sticky rubber gasket on the Simplex arm.
If it really bothers me, roughening the filament loop where it contacts the gasket would be my approach, but it's relatively easy to adjust azimuth, so no big deal in my case.
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It can't be doing the stylus much good.
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Well, true, but the stylus not running parallel to the groove would be doing much worse over time, even if azimuth was perfect and stayed put, right?
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That would not be a good thing, either.
You'd think that there would be an easy way to lock the azimuth adjustment into place.
I have two of the older tables and that's the one thing that bothers me about them.
I wonder about uneven stylus wear but perhaps I'm worrying about nothing.
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OK, I've been lazy. I just had a good look at the LTD Symmetrex arms as included in the Mk II versions of the WTL tables, and it appears that the differences are 1) the gasket has been changed to rubber from metal, and 2) the golf ball now has a metal cap that the filament threads through. These are the retrofitted arms, not the standalone, all-metal arms.
Assuming this is what rob400 has, my guess that the rubber gasket might improve azimuth drift might be actually be at play in rob400's experience of better consistency of azimuth (maybe). I'm not sure I can get my head around the VTA thing, but still pondering. This would have to mean that the golf ball lifts over 4.6mm (0.1833 inches) over the 10.5" arm to effect a VTA change of 1 degree. That's a pretty significant lift, one that I'm sure Mr. Firebaugh would have noticed and engineered out. Of course, even minute differences in VTA on the order of tenths of a degree are perceivable IME, but I think it would have to be a sudden change in VTA for it to be noticed (by me at least). Not ruling it out, however.
But back to the new LTD tech: I wonder whether the metal cap also raises the effective mass of the arm significantly - does anyone know whether this is true? If so, does the increased mass allow it to seat in the silicone better, increasing the effectiveness of the damping, lowering resonances further? Guess I can shoot Mr. P an email and get off my lazy a**.
These questions aside from the "dynamic tracking" feature...
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I have the Symmetrex mod fitted to my LTD Watercourse. Your theory on why the azimuth is now more consistent is good enough for me. Most important to me is that my Versalex now sounds fantastic. The Amadeus mk2 is pretty much on a par (my preference is still just for the Versalex) I've heard the Simplex and I believe for the money it's unbeatable. It has however slipped even further behind these Mk2 versions of the top two decks. if you get chance to dem one or the other let us know. It will be interesting to read about your experience.
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Actually, if you think about just the concept of (rather than the technical side) an additional "accepted" alignment to the pair of Lofgrens and Stevenson methods, like one has to with Firebaugh's new alignment, then how does experimenting with adding overhang to the WTL alignment seem wrong? Not to mention VPI's alignment, or other proprietary approaches. Makes one think that it might not make sense to just accept the approach, since there are so many others, especially if you are not getting great results.
Alignment is all geometry and first year calculus, and I'd like to lift the discussion out of the realm of he untouchable. It's something you can learn from through the experiment, and you won't break anything in the process if you're careful.
Hi,i have your same experience,trying different set up because not satisfy the sound,and after i find this forum and carefully read the discussion,i find i have wrong in my setup,my wrong setup is wrong direction of azimuth collar,now is everything amazing ,so you better check again.the golf ball to float central of the cup.
Sam
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one thing I noticed when trying to fix the drifting azimuth is that the collar has to be directly centered over the top of the ball. this is harder to do than it seems. if it's off, the azimuth will drift as you reach the end of the LP.
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Hi Sam. Surely the azimuth spindle per se isn't directional and we all seem to have agreed on a single twist in the filament in obviously the direction that creates a force pulling the cartridge away from the centre spindle. That gives the correct anti skate. Pray tell us more about your mystical setting :D
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Thanks vortrex. I had noticed that the factory mounting of the gasket did not place it directly above the center of the cup at all points. So, based on vortrex's experience, I have adjusted this closer to perfect. We'll see how this goes.
If it sounds worse vortrex, I'm coming over to harshly critique your ever-evolving system and call it derogatory names.
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OK, over the course of 4 LPs, although it still sounds magnificent, I have been chasing azimuth all over the place, it's not holding constant across even a single side. In on-the-fly adjustments, the filament sections at a certain point "jump" when they overcome friction from crossing over on each other suddenly, rather than gradually. This may be what rob400 may have been referring to originally. Thanks for welcoming me to your nightmare!
I think you all are in a conspiracy to make me over-think the setup of this table rather than have me go on about aligning the cart correctly anymore. :lol:
At least someone can't chime in that it's only the el-cheapo Simplex with this problem, both Amadeus and GTA also do this. I'm moving the grommet back to the original spot, off-center though it may be, and go on with one less variable to address.
And I just got word from Mr. P that the Simplex will never have an LTD retrofit, but that the only diff is the lowered center of gravity for the pivot point...
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... And now azimuth is staying put, with only the threat of adjusting the gasket again!
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Hi Sam. Surely the azimuth spindle per se isn't directional and we all seem to have agreed on a single twist in the filament in obviously the direction that creates a force pulling the cartridge away from the centre spindle. That gives the correct anti skate. Pray tell us more about your mystical setting :D
Hi,
No mystical setting(my english too bad may be you get wrong meaning :duh:),just same you guys,
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At least someone can't chime in that it's only the el-cheapo Simplex with this problem, both Amadeus and GTA also do this. I'm moving the grommet back to the original spot, off-center though it may be, and go on with one less variable to address.
As long as the golf ball does not touch the sides of the cup it does not matter if it is a bit off centre. It should be left to settle into a stable position under the adjustment collar before and azimuth adjustment is made. Suggest resting the stylus on a non-rotating record then going away for a few minutes. When you get back, and without otherwise touching the arm, adjust the azimuth.
I have found the azimuth to be off sometimes when I first place the stylus on the record. This is the wrong time to adjust it as your act of swinging the arm across can move the ball out from being directly under the adjustment collar and if this happens your azimuth will be out. It will quickly settle if left alone.
I have not noticed any evidence of the threads sticking to each other as the arm moves across the record.
Steve
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As long as the golf ball does not touch the sides of the cup it does not matter if it is a bit off centre. It should be left to settle into a stable position under the adjustment collar before and azimuth adjustment is made. Suggest resting the stylus on a non-rotating record then going away for a few minutes. When you get back, and without otherwise touching the arm, adjust the azimuth.
I have found the azimuth to be off sometimes when I first place the stylus on the record. This is the wrong time to adjust it as your act of swinging the arm across can move the ball out from being directly under the adjustment collar and if this happens your azimuth will be out. It will quickly settle if left alone.
I have not noticed any evidence of the threads sticking to each other as the arm moves across the record.
Steve
"As long as the golf ball does not touch the sides of the cup it does not matter if it is a bit off centre"
i think it is depend what cartridge you use ,it means 'FINE TUNE',is it right???
:D
Sam
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Hmm, fine tune, don't fine tune, center, don't center, azimuth drifts over time, rather, it corrects itself over time... ?
There does not appear to be consensus at all.
We shall find our own way, and it will be good.
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"As long as the golf ball does not touch the sides of the cup it does not matter if it is a bit off centre"
i think it is depend what cartridge you use ,it means 'FINE TUNE',is it right???
:D
Sam
I was really only referring to maintaining azimuth. Moving the ball about in the cup will obviously effect other aspects of cartridge alignment.
Steve
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I was really only referring to maintaining azimuth. Moving the ball about in the cup will obviously effect other aspects of cartridge alignment.
Steve
So i ask 'is it right'??and ,my setup,the golf ball is center of the cup(i use Lyra cart), :D
Sam
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So i ask 'is it right'??and ,my setup,the golf ball is center of the cup(i use Lyra cart), :D
Sam
You have to assume it was designed for the ball to be in the centre of the cup and so putting it there would be 'right'
But it wont hurt to move it round a little and decide for youself.
Steve
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So i ask 'is it right'??and ,my setup,the golf ball is center of the cup(i use Lyra cart), :D
Sam
one more thing,we can make a conclusion if everybody setup the golf ball is center of the cup(of course from outer groove to inner groove no distortion),so what Cartridge you use?? :D
Sam
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Currently centre and using a DV Te Kaitora Rua. No distortion and ball stays in the middle.
Steve
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As there isn't any overhang adjustment possible where the cartridge bolts onto the arm I feel its logical to centre the golf ball in the cup. I use a DV cartridge also and this is the range that WTL recommend. My cartridge tracks very well so unless your cartridge has a very differant design shape keep in Central and enjoy.
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i currently use Lyra Skala,and the ball center of the cup,no distrotion :D