Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1315 times.

Norman Tracy

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 413
    • Audio Crafters Guild
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #20 on: 18 Jan 2022, 06:14 am »
Interesting take by WGH. Level tweaking the LCR array down is a great idea to try. Also GR could suggest a resistor value change in the rear channel speakers to bring up the tweeter level a dB or so looking to capture that "Dune" Atmos adjustment. The idea observation that object oriented tech and resulting mixing norms call for a different brighter balance in speakers is thought provoking.

With surround sound we multiply the variables that need to be brought into harmony for a really magic result. Enjoy the journey taking your time as you dial it in.

jparkhur

Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #21 on: 18 Jan 2022, 03:15 pm »
Why not run them all FULL RANGE / LARGE.  Still can do sub fine?   That would push everything out and XO would do some work. ???

WGH

Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #22 on: 18 Jan 2022, 07:39 pm »
Full range is good for 5 channel/immersive music. My movie listening levels are a lot louder. Usually the low frequencies in the surround channels are rolled off at 80 Hz which allows the amp to have more reserve power for the LCR and the sub does what it is designed to do. Since your amp has 120 W for each of the 5 channels you can certainly give it a try.

The X-LS is -3db down at 55Hz so the crossover turns some 30 - 40Hz movie bass into wasted heat. Movies with strong deep base like "Blade Runner 2049" would probably bottom out the woofer if run full range at Dolby reference levels.

Are you listening to the X-LS off axis? How far do you sit from the surrounds? Surround speakers should have a wide even dispersion pattern, even going as far as bi-pole designs. The X-LS look like they are very focused, great for stereo music but for surrounds...?

X-LS Horizontal Response



I noticed a big jump in clarity, dynamics and surround effects after moving to the Anthem AVM 60 after my old Outlaw 975 died. The Outlaw was about as old as your Rotel RSP-1570 and the sound was definitely dated. I also discovered home theater upgrades aren't cheap.

One advantage of the new room correction software in modern processors are different speakers are tonally matched and volume corrected, in my setup it turns the center and 5 pair of slightly different sounding speakers into one huge seamless sound space. Sounds move around in space without any speaker localization. It helps that all the surround and Atmos speakers are bi-pole.

Here is an example of the frequency response adjustments I have at my fingertips.



jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #23 on: 18 Jan 2022, 08:25 pm »
With premium parts the X-LS Encore takes at least 50 hours of break-in to sound decent and will continue to improve for 200+ hours. When not listening, hook them up as main speakers and let them play continuously. This will speed up the break in process. If the speakers playing is bothersome, face them towards each other a few inches apart, switch the positive and negative speaker wires on one of them, throw a blanket over both of them and let them play. You won't hear anything.
WOW had no idea...I know its going to take time to break them in and that maybe the issue....
Thanks for the suggestions

jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #24 on: 18 Jan 2022, 08:25 pm »
Why not run them all FULL RANGE / LARGE.  Still can do sub fine?   That would push everything out and XO would do some work. ???
Yes sir at full range and large...love the base spread that give!

jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #25 on: 18 Jan 2022, 08:27 pm »
Interesting take by WGH. Level tweaking the LCR array down is a great idea to try. Also GR could suggest a resistor value change in the rear channel speakers to bring up the tweeter level a dB or so looking to capture that "Dune" Atmos adjustment. The idea observation that object oriented tech and resulting mixing norms call for a different brighter balance in speakers is thought provoking.

With surround sound we multiply the variables that need to be brought into harmony for a really magic result. Enjoy the journey taking your time as you dial it in.
Norman thanks I actually tried this and did seem to make a difference, I believe I will go back and try to dial in and break in as Mundy suggested and that may get me where I want to be..
thanks for the suggestion I was on the right track...

jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #26 on: 18 Jan 2022, 08:33 pm »
Full range is good for 5 channel/immersive music. My movie listening levels are a lot louder. Usually the low frequencies in the surround channels are rolled off at 80 Hz which allows the amp to have more reserve power for the LCR and the sub does what it is designed to do. Since your amp has 120 W for each of the 5 channels you can certainly give it a try.

The X-LS is -3db down at 55Hz so the crossover turns some 30 - 40Hz movie bass into wasted heat. Movies with strong deep base like "Blade Runner 2049" would probably bottom out the woofer if run full range at Dolby reference levels.

Are you listening to the X-LS off axis? How far do you sit from the surrounds? Surround speakers should have a wide even dispersion pattern, even going as far as bi-pole designs. The X-LS look like they are very focused, great for stereo music but for surrounds...?

X-LS Horizontal Response



I noticed a big jump in clarity, dynamics and surround effects after moving to the Anthem AVM 60 after my old Outlaw 975 died. The Outlaw was about as old as your Rotel RSP-1570 and the sound was definitely dated. I also discovered home theater upgrades aren't cheap.

One advantage of the new room correction software in modern processors are different speakers are tonally matched and volume corrected, in my setup it turns the center and 5 pair of slightly different sounding speakers into one huge seamless sound space. Sounds move around in space without any speaker localization. It helps that all the surround and Atmos speakers are bi-pole.

Here is an example of the frequency response adjustments I have at my fingertips.

I redirected to more direct pattern after initially setting up off axis seem to help and yes maybe using them in a application that's not a good fit...  Thanks for the recommendation on the amp I have been thinking about upgrading as these things really like power and man do they  sound great with power!    thanks for the insight and suggestion I really appreciate everyone suggestions and help.  I hmay have to rethink the surround application if I can't them the way I want after a good break in time...
Thanks again

VinceT

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #27 on: 30 Jan 2022, 03:29 pm »
Just an update for the OP.

I used my Encores in rear channel duty last night. I must say they are an excellent performer and really brought a lot to the party. If you have the room to get these 10+ away from the rear listening position they are excellent in for rear channels. 

jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #28 on: 31 Jan 2022, 04:12 pm »
Vince thank you!  They really do bring a lot of stage to the backs.  I can't get mine that far back as the above me about 4' and about 8' away.  I have been playing with the processor settings and they gotten better.  I raise the crossover to 100hz and it seemed to help.  I also redirected more toward the center of the room for less direct sound.  I think they just need to be broken n more.  I'm still going to try and point them up to see how that sounds just haven't had the time to fart with them after the recent changes.
Thanks for the update it helps.

VinceT

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #29 on: 31 Jan 2022, 07:33 pm »
Yes you just need to fiddle with them

Mine sound better running in large mode, but each set up is different. If your are close to walls I can see why you took some of the low end out. My AVR allows me to EQ rears seperately so I was able to really dial mine in that way. I have taken speakers and essentially put them near the floor pointing up and that has worked. I would say whatever you need to do to get more distance the better. Mine are about 11 foot away at ear level, sound amazing. I got out the tape measure and dialed in the distance settings for the delay and that really helped.

jkaldor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Life is good!
Re: Not getting good surround sound out of xls rear speakers
« Reply #30 on: 1 Feb 2022, 03:35 pm »
Hmm I never tried setting to large...and I still need to try and post them up...Thanks I really appreciate your suggestions