Big price increase on X series

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SnowPuppy77

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #20 on: 11 May 2020, 04:58 pm »
Speaking of Tekton...the prices have actually gone down on a lot of models. For example the Electron SE were $4000 now they are on sale for $3000.  Double Impact SE were originally $6500...now $4000...just sayin.

I LOVE MY M3 TM's!!
  Interesting point.  A good question is why are their prices going down?  Probably due to lack of demand at those prices.

Randy

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #21 on: 11 May 2020, 05:06 pm »
  Interesting point.  A good question is why are their prices going down?  Probably due to lack of demand at those prices.

Yea, funny how that works.

Wind Chaser

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #22 on: 11 May 2020, 05:30 pm »
A good question is why are their prices going down?  Probably due to lack of demand at those prices.

Maybe, maybe not. While lower prices make you more competitive, higher prices make you less competitive.

undertow

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #23 on: 11 May 2020, 05:49 pm »
I wish anybody luck that tries to compete especially in the hi end "Speaker" realm these days there are just to many of them and impossible to prove a superior product when trying to bring something newer to market.

There are also 5 dollar cups of coffee you can defend it to the end that its worth spending that on it daily. I just don't care.

Wilson had a theory when print was the only way to find out about them not internet, and charged whatever they could at the highest level for a pair of speakers as they figured they could sell one pair, and pay for their advertising that month in Stereophile. But guaranteed they did not cost anywhere near half that even in labor, and materials what they were charging is all my point was.

Yes there is the initial costs of so called "R&D", but generally today most designs are pretty much known, and quite honestly its not rocket science if it ever was to build a good speaker.

No question these days it is by far more expensive to operate any business, and marketing is thru the roof especially on the volume of a product like this in sales. But if the end value is not there its not there. 

Brand name recognition and resale will be huge moving forward because you enter a different level vs. the garage guys trying to build 2000 to 5000 a pair speakers 5 times a year.

I guess time will tell who survives and who does not after this credit crunch in the coming years ends.

Peter J

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #24 on: 11 May 2020, 05:53 pm »
This recent conversation between Steve Guttenberg and Sean Fowler is a relevant watch for anyone buying audio gear (or literally anything else, as the same issues apply), but certainly for those solely looking at the price of parts in relation to audio component pricing. (Spoiler alert: to run a business, you have to do more than just buy parts.)

"If you think audiophile speakers, amps, and even cables are too expensive, Sean has some answers": https://youtu.be/A7lZi8hJsxI

I'd also point you to this recent conversation I had with Clayton where he discusses some of the difference between his speakers and DIY open baffle speakers, since there were some comparisons made in this thread: https://youtu.be/vYHjNc3kWAQ


~Nicholas @ LTA

I'm probably not Sean's biggest fan, but the points he makes are relevant to many small businesses, not just audio related companies. Savvy business owners know what their actual all-in  costs are and price products based on that to eek out a little profit. In my experience it's not as lucrative as many (if not most) imagine. Often businesses just handle money throughout any given year and end up with little to nothing at the end of the year.

I find it especially confounding when I read comments like "they should lower their price" without any recognition as to how that might affect a business. Not covering all your costs leads to a failed business, it's just a matter of time. I doubt anyone's getting fat and happy in audio these days. Pricing is not arbitrary when in this arena, folks. If someone could sell for less, why wouldn't they?  It's easy to sit on sidelines and armchair quarterback without looking at the entire picture, but ultimately businesses have to make a profit to survive.


deadhead

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #25 on: 11 May 2020, 07:04 pm »
I own a pair of Spatial X3s and can say at $7500 I thought they were a bargain.  The sound is the best I've ever had in my listening room and at the end of the day that's what matters to me.  It makes my hobby (music) more enjoyable. 

I don't walk into a Michelin starred restaurant and pick apart the ingredients in my meal to figure out the chef's cost and decide whether or not I'm overpaying.  I taste the food and if it's great I smile and send complements to the kitchen.

reillyzing

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #26 on: 11 May 2020, 10:09 pm »
Were the weights of the X3 and X5 listed as 75 and 85 lbs. before the price increase? Maybe a parts change was made? I thought they might have been 65 and 75 lbs. before.

sarora9

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #27 on: 12 May 2020, 12:17 am »
The weights were the same before price increase. I second the opinion expressed by others that X3's (which I purchased in Dec) are a great bargain. They sound great with inexpensive components, though they shine even brighter with great components.


Jprod

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Re: Big price increase on X serie
« Reply #28 on: 12 May 2020, 01:05 am »
Clayton’s decision I am sure was done with much thought and deliberation. All of us that have had the pleasure to talk to him know that he is very customer oriented. Businesses don’t just arbitrarily raise prices without weighing in overhead, profit margin, potential impact on future business etc.
I do know one thing though - whether you buy the m5 or the lumina or anything in between you get exemplary customer service that is always available.  I can’t say that about a lot of companies and that alone to me is worth a lot. In addition you are getting products that are well reviewed and sound fantastic.  Also don’t forget back in the summer he was more than willing to accept his older M3’s as trade in.   Try doing that with other companies that come up with newer speaker technology.

Spatial Audio

Re: Big price increase on X serie
« Reply #29 on: 12 May 2020, 02:34 am »
Clayton’s decision I am sure was done with much thought and deliberation. All of us that have had the pleasure to talk to him know that he is very customer oriented. Businesses don’t just arbitrarily raise prices without weighing in overhead, profit margin, potential impact on future business etc.
I do know one thing though - whether you buy the m5 or the lumina or anything in between you get exemplary customer service that is always available.  I can’t say that about a lot of companies and that alone to me is worth a lot. In addition you are getting products that are well reviewed and sound fantastic.  Also don’t forget back in the summer he was more than willing to accept his older M3’s as trade in.   Try doing that with other companies that come up with newer speaker technology.

Thank you John - you are correct.

Can we all get real about this topic? Most of us are at least in our 50s or 60s and here we have the same old complaint I have heard about pricing for most of my life. Man walks into a breakfast diner and orders the 3 egg omelet special. Later, when the check arrives for $6.90, he loudly complains "This is ridiculous !! - I can buy 2 dozen eggs for the price you are charging for just 3 eggs". It's seriously hard to believe that we still have to listen to this childish nonsense. If you don't understand how for-profit businesses function, then please don't embarrass yourself online and waste everyone's time. Go LEARN something about business. I find it humorous that these low-information, hater types don't have their own audio company. Talk is cheap as they say.

I would second the idea that everyone watch Sean's podcast segment on this topic since it covers the topic very well and I won't have repeat it all. Suffice it say that pricing is complicated and a moving target and nobody is getting rich doing this. We certainly don't want to raise the price. The X5 intro price of $5950 was the best estimate we could produce about a year ago when it was developed. After manufacturing it for a while, we were able to better capture the actual cost - "all in cost". Guess what? - the X5 costs more to build than we originally estimated. No need for conspiracy theories. Once a company understands it true costs better - what do you think it should do? Lower the price, keep the price the same, or raise the price to maintain a sustainable business? Spatial, after all, is a business, not a home hobby. We have poured our lives into moving the art of speaker technology forward with only a modest financial reward. We have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in bringing this dream to reality.

Our approach has always been to keep the pricing as minimal as possible. If we were at the luxury end of the scale ($50k up for example), then price theory can change substantially. Ultra-low volume markets like that with a wide price tolerance are different. In prestige markets, raising the price many times increases sales volume because it may appear to be more valuable. We are not in that end of the market and I feel the combination of high volume and modest margins are the best strategy for the sub $10k market, where most business is conducted. It pains me to have to raise the price, but again - its a business - one a many tough decisions we make all the time. The market decides if the price is fair or not -period.

Best,
Clayton Shaw
Spatial Audio Lab
www.spatialaudio.us@gmail.com





JackD

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #30 on: 12 May 2020, 02:51 am »
Well said Clayton.

aniwolfe

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #31 on: 12 May 2020, 05:40 am »
@Clayton

I would recommend to send a Newsletter to subscribers next time. Or maybe announce this on this forum as well? Lots of companies (not all) do announce price increases. This would definitely make things smoother in the future with less whining or complaining for sure. Consumers that have interest in your products would like to know why you made an increase. Improvements in the product? or as you explained when you responded in this thread. Just a suggestion :)

Regards,
tom

heywaj10

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #32 on: 14 May 2020, 04:04 pm »
@Clayton

I would recommend to send a Newsletter to subscribers next time. Or maybe announce this on this forum as well? Lots of companies (not all) do announce price increases. This would definitely make things smoother in the future with less whining or complaining for sure. Consumers that have interest in your products would like to know why you made an increase. Improvements in the product? or as you explained when you responded in this thread. Just a suggestion :)

Regards,
tom

My 2 cents here (if worth even that). Why should Clayton feel obligated to spend time publicizing or justifying this type of change? It amazes me how entitled customers always feel to be appeased (I'm not talking about you specifically here, so no personal attack is meant whatsoever, just my opinion). Clayton's time (and any small business owner, for that matter) is much better served focusing on their product, making improvements, taking care of their employees, and running the business.

And even if he DID send a newsletter out - there will always be people complaining about it anyway...so what's the point? You can't please everyone. IMO, the X series is in its own performance and price tier...if that's not affordable for some, then they can achieve a high degree of performance at the M series tier for substantially less. The customer still wins here, especially as compared to what other manufacturers are charging for much less performance.

I'm all out of pennies.

Wind Chaser

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #33 on: 14 May 2020, 05:15 pm »
..so what's the point?

The point is if someone has been saving up for them and then there is a sudden and significant price increase, that might just be enough for some to reconsider and look at different options...

Or if someone is stretching their budget from 5K to 6K and then the price suddenly without warning goes up another $1000, that might just be enough for them to reconsider and look at other options...

There other reasons as well. However when a forthcoming price increase is announced ahead of time, that just might be the incentive some sitting on the fence need to place their order.

But ultimately how Clayton runs his business is his business. This is not a personal attack aimed at anyone, it is just an opinion based on observation.

Early B.

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #34 on: 14 May 2020, 05:31 pm »
Why should Clayton feel obligated to spend time publicizing or justifying this type of change?

Because it's good customer service.

Look what happened here -- Clayton came on and explained quite well why his prices increased. No one can argue with his reasoning. Boom! Issue squashed. Was he obligated to do so? Nope. Did he do it anyway? Yep. That's a good thing. I'm not a customer (yet), but as a result of such gestures, I would feel good about not only investing in the product, but in the person who created them. It matters. A lot. If any owner comes across as a jerk, you're probably not gonna buy what he's selling.   

Big companies don't have to explain to their customers anything they do because they typically don't have the type of personal customer relationships and interactions that Clayton does.
 

Wind Chaser

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #35 on: 14 May 2020, 05:57 pm »
I'm not a customer (yet)...

Well come on already, get with the program!  :P

I know a potential buyer for your speakers to help fund your move to Spatial.  :wink:

Brettio

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #36 on: 14 May 2020, 06:02 pm »
By and large this thread is pure comedy. At first it was the cost of the parts, now it’s that the owner must not only inform random people of potential price increases (perhaps Mr. Shaw should maintain say a 5 year pricing projection?) and then be sure to inform potential customers the reasoning behind those increases!  Good times! 

Jprod

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #37 on: 14 May 2020, 06:55 pm »
I can’t answer for Clayton but can only speculate.  He is a “made to order” speaker manufacturer. If he announced ahead of time then the glut of orders could strain his operations.  Also you will have people pleading with him that they placed the order 2 hours after the price increase so could he please honor the old price.  Some manufacturers do announce price increases ahead of time but they usually do have  ready inventory that has been manufactured under prior overhead costs.  Therefore they can announce a price increase. Claytons business model is not like that at all
Those who have interacted with him know that he is not sitting in his chair at night thinking of ways to screw his customers.  He’s the complete opposite. I’m old enough be able to judge character and he’s an upstanding person and a true gentleman

 Bottom line- I was told once that you should expect to get 2/3 features of a product - price, quality , customer service.
With Spatial Audio you get all 3 even with the price increase

Woodsage

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Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #38 on: 14 May 2020, 08:50 pm »
Manufacturing in the US is a bitch especially in a highly competitive, niche, flavor of the day market where a good portion  of your customers border on the neurotic. No offense meant of course.

Another option is to have a bit of patience and buy them used for 50-60% of their retail price a little bit down the road.

In the mean time I hope everyone is enjoying  the undoubtedly fine speakers they currently have.

Mike

Wind Chaser

Re: Big price increase on X series
« Reply #39 on: 14 May 2020, 09:36 pm »
If he announced ahead of time then the glut of orders could strain his operations. 

That is ridiculous.  :roll: