AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: zoom25 on 30 Aug 2017, 04:40 pm
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James, I've had the BDP-1 for around 2 years now and I've kept that on 24/7 without any problems. Maybe once or twice did I get an error code 04 or 05 in that entire duration. Then about three weeks back, I had to take my entire rig down. Everything unplugged. During that time I got the Torus IS 15.
So when I initially got the Torus a week ago, I was on a different circuit then usual in another room with only the BDP-1, USB hub, and a LPS for my DAC connected to the Torus directly. I noticed that I would get error 05 every day or at night. However, this would always happen whenever I was not around. I was there in that room only for 4 days.
In the last 3 days, I've moved back to the same old circuit where my rig always has been. I have connected LPS for DAC, BDP-1, Amphion Amp 100, and iMac all directly to the Torus. I've gotten error code almost twice per day. As before, this always happened whenever I wasn't around for it.
I know everything connected to the circuits and it's identical to what's been there for the past two years. The A/C's been off as well as of late. All the other devices have showed no problem from what I can see whenever I come back. Only the BDP-1 displays the problem. All the other devices are also on 24/7 like in the past.
So I can only think of three things:
1) The power somehow got really unreliable in these 3 weeks that I didn't have my rig and BDP-1 connected. Even though there were 2 years of solid power with the BDP-1.
2) Is the Torus messing with the BDP-1 specifically? Should I try connecting it to a regular strip instead of the Torus and see if that changes things?
3) Did something go wrong with the BDP-1 or is about to go wrong? Does it have anything to do with a firmware update?
It boots up just fine and fast as always after I unplug/replug the cord. Somewhat worried. Please let me know what comes to mind! Thanks.
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Sorry if I understand the BDP-1 is plugged into the Torus?
james
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Yes, the BDP-1 is plugged into the Torus IS 15 directly.
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Yes, the BDP-1 is plugged into the Torus IS 15 directly.
OK I think I know whats up. The Torus outputs the correct voltage (120 or 240) when it is fully loaded so if not fully loaded then the voltage coming out is a few volts higher than the normal input voltage. The BDP-1 was very sensitive to voltage increases (in order to prevent software loss) and would show error 5 - So disconnect the BDP-1 from the Torus.
james
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Okay, I think I get it. Whenever I got the error code 05, underneath it it would say '220.' I didn't connect much to the Torus as I didn't want to stress it. How much does it need to be fully loaded? I can connect other things to it if that will help the BDP-1 as I do like the overall performance I'm getting out of it.
Do you think it's better to connect more to the Torus or just keep the BDP-1 off it?
Also, do the AVR models also act like this when they are not fully loaded?
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Okay, I think I get it. Whenever I got the error code 05, underneath it it would say '220.' I didn't connect much to the Torus as I didn't want to stress it. How much does it need to be fully loaded? I can connect other things to it if that will help the BDP-1 as I do like the overall performance I'm getting out of it.
Do you think it's better to connect more to the Torus or just keep the BDP-1 off it?
Also, do the AVR models also act like this when they are not fully loaded?
I would take it off the Torus.
No the AVR versions hold the voltage within 5 volts so usually not an issue.
james
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Okay, will try that. Is the BDP-2 and BDP-3 also sensitive to the same degree?
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Okay, will try that. Is the BDP-2 and BDP-3 also sensitive to the same degree?
No the BDP-2 and 3 have a much wider tolerance.
james
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No the BDP-2 and 3 have a much wider tolerance.
james
That's great to hear. Thanks for your help James! One last question. While I had the rig down, I moved some other stuff around and so some of my stock power cables ended up being used elsewhere, so I'll have to order more out of necessity. I was thinking of ordering a few standard black 14 AWG cables to make sure all the gear has enough juice. It only costs a dollar or two more than the stock 18 AWG cables. The only other thing I noticed was that there were also shielded versions of those stock cables at the same gauge. They were the same price, so I was wondering if I should order the shielded or unshielded ones and whether there was an advantage or disadvantage with one or another, or it doesn't make any difference? This is for stuff connected to the Torus and nearby. My interconnects for digital and analog is balanced Grimm TPR (shielded).
I figured I'd ask just for peace of mind.
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That's great to hear. Thanks for your help James! One last question. While I had the rig down, I moved some other stuff around and so some of my stock power cables ended up being used elsewhere, so I'll have to order more out of necessity. I was thinking of ordering a few standard black 14 AWG cables to make sure all the gear has enough juice. It only costs a dollar or two more than the stock 18 AWG cables. The only other thing I noticed was that there were also shielded versions of those stock cables at the same gauge. They were the same price, so I was wondering if I should order the shielded or unshielded ones and whether there was an advantage or disadvantage with one or another, or it doesn't make any difference? This is for stuff connected to the Torus and nearby. My interconnects for digital and analog is balanced Grimm TPR (shielded).
I figured I'd ask just for peace of mind.
If the price is the same no problem with the shielded. Our power supplies suppress any incoming electrical noise issues but it can't hurt.
james
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James, thanks for the comments on cabling.
Today, I come to you with another puzzle. I had noticed that the Torus made a constant very low transformer noise that can only be heard when you put your ears right up against the unit. It's from the unit itself. Nothing actually coming through the audio chain. I take it that this is just par for the course?
However, I did notice that when my Late 27" 2009 iMac is plugged into the Torus, on top of the low transformer noise, there is also this constant/intermittent clicking noise from the transformer. This clicking noise can also be only heard when right against the transformer. Again, nothing bad coming out of the speakers. Only the mechanical noise from the Torus. I figured it was perhaps that the load was getting high for the Torus. So I turned everything else off and just left the iMac on. The clicking noise was still there. The max power consumption for the iMac is 365W. Is that enough to push the Torus? If we assume that yes the Torus is already loaded or too loaded, then shouldn't the BDP-1 stop suffering from Error 05 due to the high output voltage of the Torus as you mentioned earlier when it's not fully loaded.
So I did further investigation of the sleep cycle on iMac. I noticed that when I had put the iMac to sleep, the buzzing would be gone. The Torus doesn't seem to care about having the BDP-1, Teradak LPS for the DAC, and the Amphion Amp 100 plugged in. It's only when the iMac is running fully. No noise when iMac plugged in and on sleep mode.
I can only think of two things:
1) The iMac is actually the deciding factor and simply consuming too much on its own.
2) The iMac's circuitry is somehow being able to mess with the Torus, while the other components don't.
Should I also unplug the iMac from the Torus along with the BDP-1? Even though I cannot hear this noise from the speakers, is this clicking still affecting performance? I would love to hear your explanations and advice.
Thanks, James!
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Found another cool thing.
I decided to mess around with my brightness settings. I was at about 35% brightness mostly. At low brightness, there is both low noise clicking and low noise (hum?). However, when I turn up the brightness to max, the clicking is completely gone. Instead, the hum/constant noise gets louder as the brightness goes up. I did notice that the noise gets lower as less and less stuff is plugged in. Still nothing wrong coming out of the speakers or anything that is audible from the seating position. All these noises are only audible when I get really close to the Torus (about a foot).
Is this normal behaviour James? Still unplug the iMac or keep it on?
EDIT: It's only buzz, no hums. Had to recheck my vocab.
Also, at mid brightness setting, when there's still clicking/static sound, it can get at periods get loud.
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Found another cool thing.
I decided to mess around with my brightness settings. I was at about 35% brightness mostly. At low brightness, there is both low noise clicking and low noise (hum?). However, when I turn up the brightness to max, the clicking is completely gone. Instead, the hum/constant noise gets louder as the brightness goes up. I did notice that the noise gets lower as less and less stuff is plugged in. Still nothing wrong coming out of the speakers or anything that is audible from the seating position. All these noises are only audible when I get really close to the Torus (about a foot).
Is this normal behaviour James? Still unplug the iMac or keep it on?
EDIT: It's only buzz, no hums. Had to recheck my vocab.
Also, at mid brightness setting, when there's still clicking/static sound, it can get at periods get loud.
I am assuming the switching power supply in the computer is causing the issue so try unplugging it and see if the BDP is better.
The transformer in the Torus 15 is small so as you add components it will get noisier. That's why I recommend the 20 amp unit as the transformer is huge.
James
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I thought the whole reason for using a BIT is to block noise.
Yet, here is one that generates noise as more stuff is plugged in.
:scratch: :duh:
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I thought the whole reason for using a BIT is to block noise.
Yet, here is one that generates noise as more stuff is plugged in.
:scratch: :duh:
The noise generated by the computer is attached to the same transformer as the rest of the gear - it is all in parallel. The Torus prevents incoming noise.
james
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Ouch. Not good. Each component needs to be isolated from all others, so there is no CTC (component to component) noise propagation from individual transformers.
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I will try plugging and unplugging the iMac and BDP-1 in different configurations to see where I'm at.
Again to be clear, there is no audible noise or sign of stress on either the iMac or the audio system. It's only the Torus transformer which has a quiet variable noise depending on what's plugged in and how much it's using.
In that 3 week duration, I had taken the iMac as well as the audio system down, so I might be wrong, but I think the iMac looks better as well. The color rendering and sharpness seems better. I'll try to verify that. The audio of the iMac seems to have improved as well. I picked up another Jitterbug so I have 1 permanently on the iMac and the other for BDP-1 USB hub use.
I do wonder if the 20A version makes similar noise up close like the 15 at various loads? A couple of people with the 20 should stick their ears right against the top of the chassis and see if they hear anything.
Will give sound impressions later on in my original thread.
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The noise generated by the computer is attached to the same transformer as the rest of the gear - it is all in parallel. The Torus prevents incoming noise.
james
Ouch. Not good. Each component needs to be isolated from all others, so there is no CTC (component to component) noise propagation from individual transformers.
Yes, I'll look out for that. That's why I've kept the router and USB hub out of the Torus. iMac is the only dirty component in that link. My theory was that I could improve the weak link like the iMac while keeping the rest of the gear at the same level or maybe improve on it. The overall audio seems to be better than before.
Will see if there's any benefit or disadvantage in having the iMac out of the chain to either the iMac itself or other components.
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Hi
The Torus is superb at isolating you from the outside world. That's what an isolation transformer does.
James
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Yes, James. I have taken the iMac out from the Torus. All silent now. Just the very low level natural noise of the transformer. Only the BDP-1, Amp 100, and Teradak LPS for DAC on the Torus. Nothing crappy on the Torus now. Let's see if it helps the BDP-1 error 05. Sounding great. :thumb:
This ordeal got me thinking of what you advise to home theatre or video enthusiasts? Plug the HDTV or projector or Blu Ray player into the Torus or keep that separate? Would a single BIT 20 on a dedicated 20 line be fine for both audio (bigger amps and full range speakers) and video needs, or do you recommend double 20s on individual lines or something even bigger than the 20.
Just trying to plan for the main rig when I update it. I figured I'd ask now before forgetting what to ask. I realize it might be hard to give advice without specifics, but I'll take what I can get. :D
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Hi Zoom
I use a 20 Amp BIT in my Room 1 and have everything including the video projector plugged in (see photo) with no issues at all.
Computers are notorious for their cheap excessively noisy power supplies (that's one of the reasons we use linear supplies in our BDP Digital Player products) so depending on the quality of the supply in your projector that would be the determining factor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167832)
james
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That's good to know that a single 20 can power it all. I was thinking of something like an Oppo for a Blu ray player with its clean toroid. How do you find the power supplies of HDTV's in general nowadays? Noisy? I have a few mid range 60" Samsung. I've always wondered about this from an audio perspective.
BTW, the BDP-1 got Error 05 sometime last night. This time with no iMac or other switching stuff. It does feel disappointing. I'll try and plug the BDP-1 outside to confirm if it's the Torus or if the power really did get bad all of a sudden.
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Just wanted to update you.
Since Sep 1st, I moved the BDP-1 from the Torus to the power strip. I've had zero problems with error codes since immediately switching that day.
Last Friday (Sep 22), I got a bunch of 14 AWG shielded cables for everything whether they needed it or not, including the BDP-1. Since I was rearranging it, I thought why not try the BDP-1 back on the Torus. I've had it on since Friday and zero error codes. It's working perfectly (so far). I'm very happy. :thumb:
However, that got me thinking what could have been the issue before with the Torus/Bryston combo?
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Just wanted to update you.
Since Sep 1st, I moved the BDP-1 from the Torus to the power strip. I've had zero problems with error codes since immediately switching that day.
Last Friday (Sep 22), I got a bunch of 14 AWG shielded cables for everything whether they needed it or not, including the BDP-1. Since I was rearranging it, I thought why not try the BDP-1 back on the Torus. I've had it on since Friday and zero error codes. It's working perfectly (so far). I'm very happy. :thumb:
However, that got me thinking what could have been the issue before with the Torus/Bryston combo?
Sometimes merely unplugging and then re-plugging my BDP-1 causes everything to work smoothly again -- a "reset" or something?
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Sometimes merely unplugging and then re-plugging my BDP-1 causes everything to work smoothly again -- a "reset" or something?
No, I had done that multiple times in two rooms. It was crashing daily, sometimes twice. The cables at the time were the same whether it was on Torus or not. The Torus had 14 AWG unshielded stock cable that came with the unit. The rest of the gear had 18 AWG cables. All other gear connected to Torus didn't have any problems. It was only the BDP-1 that kept having the problem.
I accounted for those things. The only other difference is that BDP-1's been in Roon mode this time with the Torus.
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Weird. Goblins. Poltergeists in the Moose..... :roll:
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No, I had done that multiple times in two rooms. It was crashing daily, sometimes twice. The cables at the time were the same whether it was on Torus or not. The Torus had 14 AWG unshielded stock cable that came with the unit. The rest of the gear had 18 AWG cables. All other gear connected to Torus didn't have any problems. It was only the BDP-1 that kept having the problem.
I accounted for those things. The only other difference is that BDP-1's been in Roon mode this time with the Torus.
Playback method really should have any effect on the power supply, however if you had bus powered hard drives plugged in and now no longer have any bus powered hard drives plugged in then perhaps this could be why.
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Weird. Goblins. Poltergeists in the Moose..... :roll:
Yeah, very strange indeed.
LMFAOO recently I was watching some horror and as typical there was light flickering. I was thinking to myself that if these guys had Torus AVR in their homes, the paranormal would get give up after awhile, get depressed and leave. I think audiophiles would be well suited fighting them. Everything shielded. UPS for backups. Blasting glorious MQA all day long :lol: :lol:
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Playback method really should have any effect on the power supply, however if you had bus powered hard drives plugged in and now no longer have any bus powered hard drives plugged in then perhaps this could be why.
In the past two years, I always used a portable WD hard drive and it never caused a problem. However, even that doesn't matter as during that time, I had my hard drives connected to an external power hub.
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Yeah, very strange indeed.
LMFAOO recently I was watching some horror and as typical there was light flickering. I was thinking to myself that if these guys had Torus AVR in their homes, the paranormal would get give up after awhile, get depressed and leave. I think audiophiles would be well suited fighting them. Everything shielded. UPS for backups. Blasting glorious MQA all day long :lol: :lol:
....and drinking Kool-Aid all along.... :lol: :lol: :green:
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Okay, I think I might know the reason for the Error 05 on the Torus.
I woke up to an Error 05 this morning. It happened sometime last night. It has nothing do with the cables.
Until last evening, I was powering the ethernet switch from the BDP-1's USB output. Last evening, I decided to power the ethernet switch from another power. So the BDP-1 wasn't powering anything. Similarly, in August, I was using an external USB hub to connect to the BDP-1. I kept getting error 05. The BDP-1 at that time also wasn't powering the drives.
If the Torus does supply high power from time to time, perhaps this can be offset by having something plugged into the BDP-1. So powering the switch from the BDP-1 perhaps acted as a buffer?
I rebooted the BDP-1 and will keep things off the BDP-1. Let's see if it results in error code 05 again.
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Okay, I think I might know the reason for the Error 05 on the Torus.
I woke up to an Error 05 this morning. It happened sometime last night. It has nothing do with the cables.
Until last evening, I was powering the ethernet switch from the BDP-1's USB output. Last evening, I decided to power the ethernet switch from another power. So the BDP-1 wasn't powering anything. Similarly, in August, I was using an external USB hub to connect to the BDP-1. I kept getting error 05. The BDP-1 at that time also wasn't powering the drives.
If the Torus does supply high power from time to time, perhaps this can be offset by having something plugged into the BDP-1. So powering the switch from the BDP-1 perhaps acted as a buffer?
I rebooted the BDP-1 and will keep things off the BDP-1. Let's see if it results in error code 05 again.
powering things off the bdp-1 places more load on the BDP-1's transformer and thus lowers its output voltage and decreases the chance of the Error 05 message (high voltage), but increases the chance the of error 04 (low voltage).
Chris
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powering things off the bdp-1 places more load on the BDP-1's transformer and thus lowers its output voltage and decreases the chance of the Error 05 message (high voltage), but increases the chance the of error 04 (low voltage).
Chris
Yeah, that makes sense. I got it again last night "Error 05 220", sometime after 2-3 PM.