Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp

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mlundy57

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #420 on: 1 Aug 2016, 08:44 pm »
What are some good sources for wire? What different gauges would you recommend?

Thanks,

Mike

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #421 on: 1 Aug 2016, 08:51 pm »
Another question on input sensitivity - I am using a LampizatOr with volume control to drive my power amp directly.  Recently I tried a Fleawatt amp but because if it's high sensitivity I couldn't get the Lampi volume control above -50bB before the it got too loud.  Unfortunately the Lampi volume control works much better at the high end of it's range, so I couldn't use the Fleawatt in my system.  Do you expect that I'll have the same issue with the Folsom 7297?

I don't know for sure, because for example a Golden Gate Lampizator didn't take issue with this. However the high output impedance was a problem, so the sound wasn't as good as it could be. You may want to try adding a resistor off of the RCA jacks to get some voltage drop, making the Lampizator have to increase volume.

I'd like to link to a buffer I'm using, that I think is an excellent buffer. But DIYaudio is down right now or something, so maybe later.

if I had the Lampizator spec's for your model, I'd know more.

« Last Edit: 1 Aug 2016, 10:24 pm by Folsom »

Odal3

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #422 on: 1 Aug 2016, 09:15 pm »
What are some good sources for wire? What different gauges would you recommend?

For signal wire, I got the 24 Neutech solid core from Dave at Zenwave. http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/diy-parts/
He got a few different options and is very helpful giving guidance. For power I got some mil spec Ptfe silver plated wire  from ApexJr: http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html

The ApexJr wire is super cheap so I got a whole bunch so I can play around with some different configurations.

Edit: To clarify, I used two runs of the 24 gauge twisted together. I'm sure there are many other excellent alternatives out there but this worked well for me. Since I'm also new at doing this, I have to admit it took a little practice to work with the 24 solid core wires since thin wire in general is a little bit fragile.

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #423 on: 1 Aug 2016, 11:10 pm »
Yes, you can only move solid core around so much before it decided to break. My least favorite thing is how few companies offer two colors for different wires of the correct size. In fact I sort of hate their guts when it comes to that subject. More than once I've just had to use my multimeter because I ended up using the same color of wire, with no other option.

I believe in the build guide I included notes about wire sizes that work for the DIY7297. 20-30ga for signal, 20ga or 18ga solid works for output to binding posts, 18ga works nice for linking the boards together (16ga solid may fit the amp board input), Antipole can take up to 14ga solid at both ends.


Here's what I used
in my buffer. And then for the power between rectifiers and buffer boards. You can see I repurposed an old enclosure. I might wire up the switch in the future, I don't know yet. In order to make it easier I might switch to a two pole switch though, in order to have twisted wires going to it.





BTW if you want to get this buffer, here's the DIYaudio thread about it. Let's just say it's for advanced people, however.



walkern

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #424 on: 2 Aug 2016, 09:21 pm »
Any thoughts or suggestions on layout for the transformer, antipole and amp board in a nice roomy enclosure like this?  I've put the various pieces where I think they will be easy to hook up... but not sure how sensitive the amp board or the antipole are to being near the transformer (which does have a nice steel plate between it and the boards)



lacro

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #425 on: 2 Aug 2016, 09:46 pm »
That's a pretty big chassis. If you didn't have the IEC connector already in the narrow compartment, the amp would fit there with room for speaker, and input connectors. The divider/bulkhead could be the heat sink for the chip or the HS could be added to the other side of the bulkhead like I did on the back of mine. The amp would be completely isolated from AC mains, transformer, and PS. Power switch on the back, and LED on the front. Or you could add one more divider/bulkhead in the large compartment.

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #426 on: 2 Aug 2016, 10:45 pm »
That will work.

You could move the transformer to the front, face it's connections towards the back. Then put the antipole up against the dividing wall so its ground faces the transformer. The rest of the space... I guess you have enough room to add another transformer and dual rail power supplies, then use buffers too. Big project, but you've got room to fit everything I put in my preamp thing, inside of that chassis! The only minor issue is the buffer has to be turned on before the amp. I suppose that would be a more advanced thing to do.

BRN

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #427 on: 3 Aug 2016, 12:16 am »
Jeremy,

Really enjoying the sound of the amp. I have no issues using an 10k eBay DACT to control the volume. I just purchased a phono preamp with a high output impedance that recommends at lest 15k input impedance, so I'm thinking that a buffer would be a good idea. I was looking at the Pass B1 or the Aikido cathode follower. I did not hear of the buffer you are using and wanted to know what you thought of it?

Thanks,
Brad

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #428 on: 3 Aug 2016, 01:02 am »
I think it works great. It doesn't use caps like the B1, so you can put on good parts for less than $40. Joachim Gerhard said it's the best he's used so far.

It could be combined with something like Salas regulators to bump performance a bit. With the 7297 and a very low impedance source, with a 10k DACT it was an upgrade.

lacro

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #429 on: 3 Aug 2016, 12:12 pm »






BTW if you want to get this buffer, here's the DIYaudio thread about it. Let's just say it's for advanced people, however.

Jeremy,
Is that 2 buffer boards stacked together (blue ones)? You say this is for advanced people, but with a good build guide would it be possible to be dumbed down so the the not so advanced could combine this buffer with our Folsom amps?

limits

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #430 on: 3 Aug 2016, 03:13 pm »
Hi walkern:

I am using the same enclosure as you. Pictures of my build are further up in this thread.

I have rubber washers on the bottom, between transformer (the Hammond 185F16) and enclosure bottom, and between the top nut and transformer legs, and I am getting a slight bit of hum (not through the speakers) from my amp.

I'm wondering if doing what Folsom suggests might be a better option?





You could move the transformer to the front, face it's connections towards the back. Then put the antipole up against the dividing wall so its ground faces the transformer. The rest of the space... I guess you have enough room to add another transformer and dual rail power supplies, then use buffers too. Big project, but you've got room to fit everything I put in my preamp thing, inside of that chassis! The only minor issue is the buffer has to be turned on before the amp. I suppose that would be a more advanced thing to do.

Folsom--If going this route, would you have the ground plane of the antipole board directly opposite the dividing wall from the transformer, or would putting the transformer on one end and the antipole with ground plane facing the dividing wall on the other end of the enclosure be best?

Best of luck on your build  :thumb:
limits


walkern

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #431 on: 3 Aug 2016, 03:37 pm »
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions Lacro and Folsom and Limits.   I thought of putting the amp board in the narrow area (where the transformer is in the photo) but hooking it up to RCA inputs and binding posts (for outputs) would be a real space challenge there.  And thanks too to Limits for your suggestion about where to get the enclosure for not much $.  I was gonna use a big cigar box, or maybe two with 1 box for the transformer and Antipole, and a separate little guy for the amp board.  This one seems nice 'cause it's roomy and steel, which should offer some noise rejection/blocking.  I'm awaiting my Furutech IEC connector (what you see in the photo is the on/off switch), and a little run of wire (thanks SonicCraft) and I'll be getting everything hooked up shortly. 

Neil

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #432 on: 3 Aug 2016, 05:08 pm »
Jeremy,
Is that 2 buffer boards stacked together (blue ones)? You say this is for advanced people, but with a good build guide would it be possible to be dumbed down so the the not so advanced could combine this buffer with our Folsom amps?

Keantoken is selling them, they're his design. I can probably come up with a small guide that'll help avoid problems, but you unless someone wants to pay to have rectification boards printed, then you may be on your own for the power supply area. My boards are not meant just for this project, and have a lot of holes that will be confusing, so new ones would have to be made and paid for up front. I could use DirtyPCB so they'd be fairly cheap, but maybe not pretty. *Yes I have two stacked, and I'm using an eBay DACT 10k in front of them.


Folsom--If going this route, would you have the ground plane of the antipole board directly opposite the dividing wall from the transformer, or would putting the transformer on one end and the antipole with ground plane facing the dividing wall on the other end of the enclosure be best?

Best of luck on your build  :thumb:
limits

I'm not certain, but my guess is blocking the transformer is probably the most useful. Lacro's suggestion is a good one too.

As far as hum, that's the downside to these transformers that block a lot of RF. I've even put dynamat around them in the enclosure to help. If I could find someone other than Hammond who had some in stock I'd probably go with them instead, as they'd probably make less noise. Might need rubber where the bolt makes contact to the chassis, too, with a washer. That way you've got three of them.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions Lacro and Folsom and Limits.   I thought of putting the amp board in the narrow area (where the transformer is in the photo) but hooking it up to RCA inputs and binding posts (for outputs) would be a real space challenge there.

Neil

Work within your comfort. Obviously Larco is a magician so don't feel absolutely obligated to live up to his build. But it's not Larco's first build either I don't think!




BRN

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #433 on: 4 Aug 2016, 08:37 pm »
As far as hum, that's the downside to these transformers that block a lot of RF. I've even put dynamat around them in the enclosure to help. If I could find someone other than Hammond who had some in stock I'd probably go with them instead, as they'd probably make less noise. Might need rubber where the bolt makes contact to the chassis, too, with a washer. That way you've got three of them.

I used 2 rubber washers for each screw and it was very affective at removing the transformer hum I had without the washers.

Captainhemo

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #434 on: 10 Aug 2016, 03:26 pm »

I believe in the build guide I included notes about wire sizes that work for the DIY7297. 20-30ga for signal, 20ga or 18ga solid works for output to binding posts, 18ga works nice for linking the boards together (16ga solid may fit the amp board input), Antipole can take up to 14ga solid at both ends.


Was it ever determined if  solid core 16 ga would fit through the amp board (both speakaer outputs and  power inputs)? I don't have a board sitting in front o me ......

jay

walkern

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #435 on: 10 Aug 2016, 06:01 pm »
I used 16 ga solid (on one leg)  from the Antipole to the amp board without any issue, but I'm not sure about the speaker connections on the amp board.  I used 18 gauge stranded, and it fit, so I'm thinking 16 solid might.  Hopefully Folsom will know for sure.

Also a quick note to constructors: just finished my amp (sound is very promising, and it's just started to break in; had no issues with assembly or instructions), however you MUST use rubber washers between the transformer and the chassis.  I tried my amp (testing to make sure everything was correct with voltages etc) before hooking it up in my system, and it had no hum what so ever just plugged into a wall socket and nothing else hooked up to it.  As soon as I got it installed in my system, got the dreaded mechanical transformer hum and had to disassemble and install rubber washers as described by several posters.

Folsom

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #436 on: 10 Aug 2016, 06:07 pm »
Yes 16ga solid will work in place of 18ga stranded.

The hum really is annoying, I know. If Mouser had another transformer that could given the same level of performance without it, I'd change the BOM. But right now the only other choice I think I'd make is from somewhere totally different, overseas.

Captainhemo

Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #437 on: 10 Aug 2016, 06:23 pm »
Thanks fellas   :beer:

jay

mlundy57

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #438 on: 10 Aug 2016, 08:40 pm »
Yes 16ga solid will work in place of 18ga stranded.

The hum really is annoying, I know. If Mouser had another transformer that could given the same level of performance without it, I'd change the BOM. But right now the only other choice I think I'd make is from somewhere totally different, overseas.

Jeremy,

What transformer options would you recommend, both as direct replacement and as upgrade?

I'm starting to pull the parts together to build my first one. I don't mind waiting for an overseas shipment and/or paying more if it results in better performance.

Thanks,


Mike

mlundy57

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Re: Folsom's great little 7297 Chip Amp
« Reply #439 on: 10 Aug 2016, 08:43 pm »
I used 16 ga solid (on one leg)  from the Antipole to the amp board without any issue, but I'm not sure about the speaker connections on the amp board.  I used 18 gauge stranded, and it fit, so I'm thinking 16 solid might.  Hopefully Folsom will know for sure.

Also a quick note to constructors: just finished my amp (sound is very promising, and it's just started to break in; had no issues with assembly or instructions), however you MUST use rubber washers between the transformer and the chassis.  I tried my amp (testing to make sure everything was correct with voltages etc) before hooking it up in my system, and it had no hum what so ever just plugged into a wall socket and nothing else hooked up to it.  As soon as I got it installed in my system, got the dreaded mechanical transformer hum and had to disassemble and install rubber washers as described by several posters.

Is there any particular type of rubber washer to use i.e. particular durometer, type of compound, thickness, etc.?

Thanks,

Mike