[TONEPUB]

Just thought I would put my head on the block...

I've been chatting with a lot of the mfrs. over the last couple of years and
here's my two cents worth on what I've observed:

Most Mfrs. don't really go to CES to have people listen to their gear.
I know that sounds wacky, but when you think about it, that's a lot
of dough to spend to have maybe 100-200 people sit in the chair and
play 2 or 3 of their favorite cuts of music.

What most of them are at CES for is to attract new dealers, some that
have come from all over the world, talk to reviewers about new reviews
for the year and then talk to end users.

A lot of them really see RMAF, the Audio Karma show and others like that
(i.e. smaller regional shows) as being more aimed at the consumers.

I know even for me at TONE, a few years ago when I worked for TAS,
it was more about hearing new gear.  Now, it's more of a trip to line
up reviews (which does require some listening) and just saying "thank
you" to our supporters.  It's great to meet our readers along the way
as well.

While CES serves a necessary industry function, I truly hope that their
will be more regional and less expensive shows so that many of you that
just don't have that much access to gear will have a chance to see
so many different things in one venue.

I really appreciate Al Steifel's making a push towards more reasonably
priced gear too!  Remember at CES, these guys are looking for new
avenues of distribution, so naturally they are trying to put their best foot
forward.

I think as some of the high end dealers go further down hill, a show like
RMAF might be your only chance to see a lot of cool gear in one place!

Ok, Im putting my head on the block now!!

[macrojack]

I don't think your head should be in jeopardy. Everything you said squares with my experience at CES, although I haven't been there in ten years.

[PhilNYC]

CES has always been an "industry-only" show, so I don't think it was ever conceived as a show for consumers to check out new gear.

I do agree that there needs to be more venues for consumers to hear gear.  High end retailers have really focused their businesses towards HT and custom installations over the last few years, and it becomes harder and harder to find good places where you can demo 2-channel setups with music (rather than the multi-channel movie demo).

This is why I have always been a big proponent of audio clubs, and have also been so enthused by the regional circles here at AC...great ways for audiophiles to get together and hear lots of great stuff...

[TONEPUB]

Thanks.

I think one of the main problems facing high end audio is that there
just isn't anywhere to listen to all this stuff!  A lot more people would
get excited and involved if they could just hear it!

The hardest job I face as a reviewer is to write a review that makes
sense, so that when you get a chance to hear it for yourself you walk
away with a pretty similar conclusion, otherwise I haven't helped you
or the mfr.

So, we are really doing our bit to help support the regional shows.

[Mike Dzurko]

I am so MAD! Well maybe the very slightest bit disappointed we didn't do CES this year. Actually, we'll probably not do CES in the near future. RMAF seems to make a lot more sense to me.

As others have commented, CES is not targeted at the handful of consumers who make it in. It is about distribution, reviews, making contacts. Not a bad thing, just doesn't make as much sense for us since we sell primarily direct.

[enjoythemusic]

Just thought I would put my head on the block...

Actually you make A LOT of sense! As a guy who has attended over 100 shows to date, so i must be insane ....


[/quote]I've been chatting with a lot of the mfrs. over the last couple of years and
here's my two cents worth on what I've observed:
Most Mfrs. don't really go to CES to have people listen to their gear.[/quote]

Agreed to SOME extent. They do like the press to write over the top comments about the way their room sounds.

What most of them are at CES for is to attract new dealers, some that
have come from all over the world, talk to reviewers about new reviews
for the year and then talk to end users.

Spot on! Of course the public (end users) are not allowed to attend a trade only event, but certain people lie and take up a manufacturers/distributors valuable time where they need to conduct BUSINESS.

A lot of them really see RMAF, the Audio Karma show and others like that
(i.e. smaller regional shows) as being more aimed at the consumers.

Yup, and RMAF is where the public should enjoy    Awesome show!

While CES serves a necessary industry function, I truly hope that their
will be more regional and less expensive shows so that many of you that
just don't have that much access to gear will have a chance to see
so many different things in one venue.

While i agree CES was incredibly expensive this year, it appears the added cost has paid off. It takes $ to make $ and all that. Since there is THE Show, a lesss expensive alternative for high-end audio manufacturers/distributors is available. CES is the American show for the industry. In Germany it is the High-End Society, Italy it is Top Audio...  Personally, a higher amount of smaller American shows would only be most costly for the high-end audio industry in the long run IMO.

I really appreciate Al Steifel's making a push towards more reasonably
priced gear too!  Remember at CES, these guys are looking for new
avenues of distribution, so naturally they are trying to put their best foot
forward.

  Amen, Al has done a spectacular job with the RMAF! A very profesinally run show, well organized, and the costs are reasonable. Plus Al is a great guy in generally, have known him for years.

I think as some of the high end dealers go further down hill, a show like
RMAF might be your only chance to see a lot of cool gear in one place!

Well, there are always high-end stores, provided the store owners/employees allow one to see and hear gear. This is what stores are for. Hopefully Al will one day have an East and West cost show. Of course Valve has their East and West coast shows...

Ok, Im putting my head on the block now!!

Again, you are spot on from where i sit.

Enjoy the Music,

Steven R. Rochlin


Come in here dear boy
Have a cigar
You're gonna go far
You're gonna fly high
You're never gonna die
You're gonna make it if you try
They're gonna love you

Well I've always had a deep respect
And I mean that most sincerely
The band is just fantastic
That is really what I think
Oh by the way
Which one's Pink?

[rollo]

Hey Steve,
                 Have you watched TV [bad word] lately,noticed ads from Best Buy MAGNOLIA.Looks like somebody is main streaming HI END gear. Actually saw speakers and gear on TV.What has everyone been waiting for.Made me want to go and check it out.
           Maybe money on advertising is better spent than shows.Reviews are helpfull bought my Cyber 211's because of your review and am very very happy[thank you].Still nothing like seeing and feeling the stuff and of course hearing it.
            The reason mid-fi is so popular is that SONY,PANASONIC,DENON,PIONEER,etc. is in your CAR so your familiar and comfortable with it for CD and FM.Why look further?
            Marketing is the key.If most all manf's go for 2% of the market[high end] its their own fault.One more thing,the used market is prospering because?THE GEAR IS AFFORDABLE not because were cheap,Were just not getting caught up in the Hi End GAME.
            Take the Consonance Cyber 211 for example,beats alot of $10,000 amps out there.The importer decided to up the price after your review WHY?.So because of this I bought mine overseas for $2200 not $5500 Greed is killing the market and the dealers themselves.SAme for CD sales 18.98 plus tax.Wonder why ripping of music is so popular.
            Just had to get this off my chest
rollo
 

[launche]

For the people in the South (Florida in my case)
Can we get something down here.
I mean Miami is a wonderful place to visit.
We do host Superbowls etc... ya know.
We do have the second best climate in the U.S., nice beaches, Golf, fishing, nightlife etc...
We do have the most beautiful women in the U.S.
We have Disneyland, have the audio show, then take your kids to Disneyland, sounds great me.
I could go on...

I know distance may be an issue (not internantionally as much) but I would like to know if Florida is even is considered for some of these things.
Orlando or Miami would be great I think.
And give some of us southerners a chance to participate.

[enjoythemusic]

Have you watched TV [bad word] lately,noticed ads from Best Buy MAGNOLIA.Looks like somebody is main streaming HI END gear.

Yup, and frankly i like that consumers are at leasdt getting a chnace to understand there is more than Sony Bose, and other drek available.

Maybe money on advertising is better spent than shows.Reviews are helpfull bought my Cyber 211's because of your review and am very very happy[thank you].Still nothing like seeing and feeling the stuff and of course hearing it.

Glad you love ;em as much as me, awesome amps! As for money on shows versus advertisement, the CES/THE Show is a way to meet international distributors, etc. Advertising on the Internet can do the same thing and reach a more targested, broader audience. Far be it from me to say which is better. Public shows, on the other hand, should be reasonably priced as they are usually not a way to increase one's B2B. The RMAF is very cost effective and a great show, but if Al charged 2x the price, had union labor charging insane $$$ to move gear, etc, i would have other thoughts.

The reason mid-fi is so popular is that SONY,PANASONIC,DENON,PIONEER,etc. is in your CAR so your familiar and comfortable with it for CD and FM.Why look further?
            Marketing is the key.If most all manf's go for 2% of the market[high end] its their own fault.One more thing,the used market is prospering because?THE GEAR IS AFFORDABLE not because were cheap,Were just not getting caught up in the Hi End GAME.

Agreed, there is a diffeence between a resonable added value and extreme pricing. Of course once someone enjoys a Consonance 211 and wants to get better, then the price vs. performance ratio gets skewed. Once you reach a 'sweet spot' as it were, going up from there gets VERY costly. Example, the Vette Z06 is a staggering car for a mere $65k. To get truly better you'd probably have to spend well over 3x the price... but the 'better' is not THAT MUCH better, perhaps 10% better at 300% the cost.

...Just had to get this off my chest

Alas, can not comment directly, but will say you paid less than i did for the amps! i did have to add in that i bought the GE VT4C tubes elsewhere. Well, the problem might also be the (lack) of value in the United State Dollar right now. But will save that discussion for another time/discussion.

[mjosef]

For the people in the South (Florida in my case)
Can we get something down here.
I mean Miami is a wonderful place to visit.
We do host Superbowls etc... ya know.
We do have the second best climate in the U.S., nice beaches, Golf, fishing, nightlife etc...
We do have the most beautiful women in the U.S.
We have Disneyland, have the audio show, then take your kids to Disneyland, sounds great me.
I could go on...

I know distance may be an issue (not internantionally as much) but I would like to know if Florida is even is considered for some of these things.
Orlando or Miami would be great I think.
And give some of us southerners a chance to participate.

Before you get a show in Florida, you have to give back DisneyLand to California. 

[Steve]

Midwest as well. Maybe Indiana, Kentucky or something like that?

[audioengr]

I just wish that RMAF was in LA, not Denver.  It is too long a drive with too much gear at risk for damage/theft.  Takes too much time driving for such a short show IMO.  I will probably fly and bring only a limited set of gear and share a room this year.

I would like to see THE Show be in LA in the spring, and open to the public for 2 days and open to dealers and the press for 4 days.  No union drayage though.  This is real sore point with CES.

I have heard that the Montreal show is great and not very expensive.  Again, a long drive for me, so I may try to share a room there and fly.

I know personally of a couple of horror stories from THE Show this year where an exhibitors equipment was stolen mid-way during shipping and they had almost nothing to show on show day.  This is what can happen when you ship everything and fly there.

Steve N.

[launche]

Before you get a show in Florida, you have to give back DisneyLand to California. 

 , I met Disney Galaxy.

I can see how it can be a logistical nightmare in some cases.
But it's done annually by other industries.
At least one show for each region would be nice.

I agree, marketing and exposure are the culprits.  Especially for the independents and smaller companies.  I started thinking about Zu and there Rave thing and even just hitting the urban and club scenes in major cities like NY, LA, Miami, Chicago, Paris etc...would stir up a buzz that otherwise would be lost and creates a whole ground movement for a product and new audiophiles and music lovers.
Computer and home product Exposs do annual, sometimes semi-annual stops in areas and do well I hear. People respond well to factory direct and no middle man. I would love to see the RMAF duplicated in other areas (BTW, I no this isn't an easy endeavor.)  As the saying goes, sometimes you gotta get out there and kiss some babies (it works for Presidents.)  I asked around and in Florida there are 46 people who know about Audio Circle vendors, we have a population of 18 million 

[TONEPUB]

Before you get a show in Florida, you have to give back DisneyLand to California. 

sometimes you gotta get out there and kiss some babies (it works for Presidents.)  I asked around and in Florida there are 46 people who know about Audio Circle vendors, we have a population of 18 million 

That's our biggest task, kissing babies!  We can't ever do enough of this!