Off Ramp 5 in my system

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JPS

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Off Ramp 5 in my system
« on: 5 Apr 2012, 09:07 pm »
Hi everybody,
I received my Off Ramp 5 at the beginning of this week and am currently burning it in.
It is clearly a very high end interface. Mine has Turboclocks + SPDIF Hynes regulator.
I have been experimenting with various windows players and have found rather significant differences between them, jplay being the best up to now.
16/44.1 sounds very good but upsampled to 24/176.4 via r8brain it is even better.
I'll provide more detailed feedback in the near future.


Janke

Re: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #1 on: 6 Apr 2012, 01:52 pm »
As Gil Scott Heron put it; I,m new here, and would like to share my experiences with the Off-Ramp 5 which came in to my system some three weeks ago. You can check out the system elsewhere in this forum, but I am using the HDMI I2S out from a fully loaded O-R 5 to a W4S DAC-2. The a-b testing I have been doing has only been changing the USB cable back and forth under the same conditions. I have played all kinds of music, mostly in 16/44.1 and some in 24/192, using full Amarra. Some Spotify streaming in 320 kbps too. Here is what I found whatever went through:

The most obvious difference I have noticed is that music has more impact with the O-R 5, probably caused by a plentiful bass which sounds louder, wider and more defined. This is almost enough improvement to conclude that this little box is giving me a better sounding system. But there is more to it. The powerful bass also has a slam that makes the music sound huge and also felt in the chest when playing rock and electronica. Tightly tuned kick-drums snaps like clapping hands and are more easily differed from the bass. Guitars and voices sounds warmer and more fullbodied. Clearer too. The highs are smother with a wonderful reproduction of the metallic sounds from crashes and rides. No transients that puts you off.

I can play louder, but doesn´t need too. The greater impact of the sound made me lower the volume by 2 db instead, having the impression of getting the same substance as with the W4S. Even at he lowest possible level on my linestage the sound is rich and engulfing.

The most surprising effect of the O-R 5 was the widening of the soundstage, producing sound effects on some recordings very far out on the sides of the speakers. Never heard that this clearly before. Neither have I heard such a deep soundstage. It was quite stunning to percieve such a perspective that it was giving to voices and different instruments. I must say I really like this improvement - as well as being able to localize the sounds so accurately between the speakers.

When you are focused on listening, you really get rewarded with the O-R 5. It made a substantial improvement to my system. Switching back and forth made me quite sure. It is very good!

bhobba

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Re: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #2 on: 6 Apr 2012, 09:42 pm »
I have used my fully optioned OR4 into my WFS2 when I had one.  I noticed all the things you did plus the removal of a freezer like quality in the treble - it was overly clean in my system.  The SABER chip is not my favorite - it sounds overly analytic usually to me - but via the Off-Ramp those problems are largely gone - and the detail you hear is certainly exhilarating - perhaps a bit a bit too much for some tastes.

Thanks
Bill

JPS

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Update: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #3 on: 17 Apr 2012, 04:23 pm »
After some OR5 burn-in, it appears that I am actually getting much better results using jriver media center 17 (WASAPI event-style) than with jplay. It would seem that the latter is trying to avoid buffering data, which I reckon may not be beneficial to asynchronous USB.
I am now considering the purchase of a dedicated laptop and further experimenting with usb cables (I am currently using the 5m belkin gold delivered with the Off Ramp).


audioengr

Re: Update: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #4 on: 17 Apr 2012, 05:04 pm »
After some OR5 burn-in, it appears that I am actually getting much better results using jriver media center 17 (WASAPI event-style) than with jplay. It would seem that the latter is trying to avoid buffering data, which I reckon may not be beneficial to asynchronous USB.
I am now considering the purchase of a dedicated laptop and further experimenting with usb cables (I am currently using the 5m belkin gold delivered with the Off Ramp).

If you actually need the 5m cable length like I do, then most cables become prohibitively expensive, except for the Polestar.  This is what I mostly use now.

Steve N.

JPS

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Re: USB cables
« Reply #5 on: 18 Apr 2012, 04:44 pm »
Hi Steve,

I found the following on the web, which seemed interesting to me:
"After the [USB] engineers made their decision about the maximum cable length, they used it directly in the specification to limit parameters which have physical properties. One of those properties is the cable delay. As you might know electricity travels almost by the speed of light through a cable, but it still takes some time to travel through a cable from one side to the other. This maximum delay time has been defined as 18 nsec for the low-speed USB 1.1 connections and 26 nsec for the high-speed USB 2.0 connections. The speed of electricity through a copper wire depends on the dielectric coefficient of the surrounding material. Although we don't know this parameter exactly for every USB cable out there, a speed of 65% of the speed of light is quite a realistic guess for a general cable. In that case we get 5.07 meter as maximum cable length for the high speed USB 2.0 connection and 3.51 meter for low speed USB 1.1.
 
This maximum time delay is fixed in the interface, so even with the highest quality cable made from the best materials which you buy in the most expensive computer shop you wouldn't get a significantly longer maximum USB cable length than with your cheap Chinese copy cable bought from an on-line store. This is because the speed of electricity through a copper cable is defined by simple physics laws which even the most expensive cables cannot change.
 
You might think that buying the cheapest cable would give the best price-to-quality ratio, but from personal experience I have to warn you. Although these cables may function with some devices, cheaper cables do not always function with all devices. This is because the USB specifications allow quite a large range in properties of driver chips, receiver chips and cables. If you have a cheap driver chip in your computer which is relatively slow and has low output power and want to connect it to peripheral which has also a poorly designed USB interface which operates just within the limits of the specification, an expensive cable might work, where over a cheap cable the communication will fail. Although the maximum distance between your devices will not vary dependent on the quality of the USB cable, the reliability of the connection certainly will."

I am not familiar with error recovery mechanisms within the USB protocol, but considering the above would it be possible that with longer cables and poorer usb ports:
a) data get corrupted
or
b) error recovery generates additional traffic to the point at which it affects the timely delivery of the information

Could this account for differences between USB cables?

On another note, are Locus Design cables still manufactured now that Lee Weiland is no longer with us?

Regards,

JPS

audioengr

Re: USB cables
« Reply #6 on: 18 Apr 2012, 05:27 pm »
I am not familiar with error recovery mechanisms within the USB protocol, but considering the above would it be possible that with longer cables and poorer usb ports:
a) data get corrupted
or
b) error recovery generates additional traffic to the point at which it affects the timely delivery of the information

Could this account for differences between USB cables?

I dont believe SQ differences are due to either of these.  It's fairly rare to have errors on the cable, and there is no retry or error recovery.

Cable differences are due to either jitter, common-mode noise or RFI or all 3.

Quote
On another note, are Locus Design cables still manufactured now that Lee Weiland is no longer with us?

Yes:
http://www.locus-design.com/index.php/about-our-usb-cables

BobMajor

Locus Design USB cables
« Reply #7 on: 19 Apr 2012, 01:46 am »
Although the website is still on line, Lee Weiland was a one man operation and there is no one to continue the business.
I sent a message inquiring about the purchase of a Polestar cable. Here is the reply:
No cables have been made since Lee passed away last year (he hand-built everything personally) but there is one Polestar left from his personal stock; it’s a little over five feet (about 64”).
 
Cost on the unit would be $279 plus shipping.  Let me know if you’d like to buy it and we can move forward from there.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Josh Heiner

joeling39

Re: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #8 on: 19 Apr 2012, 03:36 am »
I too have taken delivery of an offramp 5 with all the enhancements. I am impressed so far. I own most of Steve's USB convertors right from the time he fitted a modified M Audio Transit into my Apogee Big Ben to offramp 3 then 4 & now 5. Also own a USB Pace Car. This latest generation of Offramp is sure impressive.

Maybe it's time for an Overdrive ?

Regards,
Joe Ling

audioengr

Re: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #9 on: 19 Apr 2012, 04:51 am »
I too have taken delivery of an offramp 5 with all the enhancements. I am impressed so far. I own most of Steve's USB convertors right from the time he fitted a modified M Audio Transit into my Apogee Big Ben to offramp 3 then 4 & now 5. Also own a USB Pace Car. This latest generation of Offramp is sure impressive.

Maybe it's time for an Overdrive ?

Regards,
Joe Ling

If you think Off-Ramp 5 is good, wait until you hear an Overdrive SE.  :thumb:

I expect to sell a lot of these once I get a review or two.

Steve N.

JPS

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Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #10 on: 20 Apr 2012, 04:14 pm »
Hi,

I obtained a significant improvement today by powering the Off Ramp 5 through a JPS Labs Digital AC-X power cord plugged into my Stealth Mini Power Purifier. It was previously powered directly from the wall.
Like for other components, power conditioning/isolation seems very beneficial to the OR5.

Regarding USB cables, as Locus Design is no longer an option, could anybody recommend other brands? Wireworld? Audioquest?

audioengr

Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #11 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:13 pm »
Hi,

I obtained a significant improvement today by powering the Off Ramp 5 through a JPS Labs Digital AC-X power cord plugged into my Stealth Mini Power Purifier. It was previously powered directly from the wall.
Like for other components, power conditioning/isolation seems very beneficial to the OR5.

This is not too surprising.  Common-mode noise through the ground wire is probably being attenuated.  This is similar to the effect with my "Short-Block" USB filter.

Quote
Regarding USB cables, as Locus Design is no longer an option, could anybody recommend other brands? Wireworld? Audioquest?

No question, Revelation Audio Labs is probably the best out there now.

Steve N.

jtwrace

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Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #12 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:45 pm »
No question, Revelation Audio Labs is probably the best out there now.
Steve N.
His response time and customer service is horrible though.

audioengr

Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #13 on: 20 Apr 2012, 09:08 pm »
His response time and customer service is horrible though.

If you buy from my website I have always found the response time acceptable, and he has repaired cables for me as well.

Steve N.

Audioexcels

Re: USB cables
« Reply #14 on: 21 Apr 2012, 05:59 am »
I dont believe SQ differences are due to either of these.  It's fairly rare to have errors on the cable, and there is no retry or error recovery.

Cable differences are due to either jitter, common-mode noise or RFI or all

My thoughts also.  I think obvious experimentation helps, but one should be able to find a solid enough cable without paying the lavish crazy prices out there.

Audioexcels

Re: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #15 on: 21 Apr 2012, 06:03 am »
I too have taken delivery of an offramp 5 with all the enhancements. I am impressed so far. I own most of Steve's USB convertors right from the time he fitted a modified M Audio Transit into my Apogee Big Ben to offramp 3 then 4 & now 5. Also own a USB Pace Car. This latest generation of Offramp is sure impressive.

Maybe it's time for an Overdrive ?

Regards,
Joe Ling

Me personally, I'm poor, but I'd obviously go with the SE, but even the Overdrive would do it.  You eliminate cables, you go direct, it's all a win win.  I prefer as much of an all in one vs. multiple devices, specifically when they sound like Steve's does.

JPS

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  • Posts: 21
News: Off Ramp 5 in my system
« Reply #16 on: 1 May 2012, 08:34 pm »
After a few weeks and a few tweaks (most significant: filtered power cord on OR power supply), I'm getting really great sound from my Off Ramp 5 listening to CDs upsampled to 24/88 with r8brain.
I have listened to albums that I know very well, and they now sound significantly better than they ever have.
I'm hearing details and ambient cues that were previously obscured.
Sounds are fuller and more realistic, instruments are less strident except those that are in real life.
There is a rightness which is quite addictive even though surprising at first because of the difference compared to CD transports. It has become difficult not to listen albums to the end.
The OR5 is definitely a huge leap in terms of accuracy of digital sound reproduction.
Congratulations Steve!

Jean-Pierre

edorr

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Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #17 on: 14 May 2012, 09:47 pm »
Regarding USB cables, as Locus Design is no longer an option, could anybody recommend other brands? Wireworld? Audioquest?

I am using the synergistic research Tesla and the difference with an stock cable is quite dramatic. Have not circulated any others through my system though.

edorr

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Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #18 on: 14 May 2012, 09:50 pm »
Hi,

I obtained a significant improvement today by powering the Off Ramp 5 through a JPS Labs Digital AC-X power cord plugged into my Stealth Mini Power Purifier. It was previously powered directly from the wall.
Like for other components, power conditioning/isolation seems very beneficial to the OR5.

Whats up with the Ac powercable. The OR5 is powered by the 12v transformer. Where do you insert an aftermarket AC cable in the system?

audioengr

Re: Power and USB cables for Off Ramp 5
« Reply #19 on: 15 May 2012, 01:34 am »
Whats up with the Ac powercable. The OR5 is powered by the 12v transformer. Where do you insert an aftermarket AC cable in the system?

For some foreign countries, I ship another AC adapter that has more AC plug options.  It has an IEC on it.  It also makes less audible noise on 240VAC 50Hz.

For US 60 Hz I like the smaller AC adapter better.

Steve N.