[morganc]

hummmm, so you like them ? One question though. Do you need to go mono, or is one just as good ?  I just might bite on these little gems. My 100 pound Pass is old and needs a day to warm up. And it's dedicated power plant.   

what speakers are you driving? I have a single here on my Spatial X-5's and it drives them with ease but most amps can do that with these speakers.

[2bigears]

  ProAc D48's .  And also M3's .... have both and will A-B these when I get these amps.... 

[morganc]

One will give you plenty but with two you'll have no doubt.   

[catluck]

NewZoo - beyond happy that you're enjoying the MiniGans.  I find your comments spot-on with my experience.  I've inserted a tube pre-amp in the system, and I think I'm done (at least for awhile if not for good..).  I literally find myself, when going to bed at night, thinking about what I'm going to listen to the next a.m.  Everything sounds "fresh" and just plain better.  I'm really starting to notice a more easily discerned bass voice in the background (for that software where bass is not prominent).  But put on Brian Bromberg, Wood, and it's just ridiculous how good it is. Anyway, you fostered the spirit of science in your willingness to try GanFets so kudos to you.  Again, thanks for your thoughtful comments.

[shadowlight]

what is everyone using for preamp with the amp?

[RonN5]

Three questions:

First is  about the build/soldering/grounding and safety....has anyone opened them up that knows anything about this and what did you find?

Second,  If something happens to the company, who can fix them if there is a problem?

Third, it looks like the resale depreciation is about 40%...does this seem reasonable for a new product?

[Mr. Big]

Three questions:

First is about the build/soldering/grounding and safety....has anyone opened them up that knows anything about this and what did you find?

Second,  If something happens to the company, who can fix them if there is problem?

Third, it looks like the resale depreciation is about 40%...does this seem reasonable for a new product?

Good questions.

[Mr. Big]

Off-brands do not hold value at times, and you know that when you buy them, you accept that at purchase. Plus they sell at really affordable prices.

In fact, most audio loses value quickly as soon as the new and greatest comes out.

Products might sound great but if they are little known well that impacts value, and due to Class D many small unheard business resources to DIY make for many small unheard businesses selling them now. Buy McIntosh it holds value even after 10-20 years because it is a known name, known quality and they last forever and still be repaired by McIntosh after 20-30 years or more! But many Class D are cheap in cost and offer lots of power. So a good combination for the buyer but you just accept they will not hold value and may be hard to sell but you may enjoy their sound and care little about value in the resale market. Fair or not Class D has a stigma.

[morganc]

what is everyone using for preamp with the amp?

My system is Aurender N100—>Audio Mirror IV SE Dac —> Don Sachs Pre via RCA —> Amp —> Spatial X-3’s. 

[newzooreview]

First is  about the build/soldering/grounding and safety....has anyone opened them up that knows anything about this and what did you find?

I haven't seen any comment about flimsy or unsafe build quality. Photos of the inside posted elsewhere show an unremarkable and reasonably tidy interior with just a few solder points for internal wiring that nobody has raised concerns about. ASR tripped internal protections in the third-hand amp they tested, so even a possibly damaged amp was failing safely. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mini-gan-5-inside-jpg.125295/

Second,  If something happens to the company, who can fix them if there is a problem?

This is certainly a concern with any small and/or startup company. When I bought one of the first MicroZOTL amps from Linear Tube Audio, a capacitor failed in the first two weeks. That seems to be a common point of failure for solid-state amps, and a cap could probably be replaced by any number of people. However, a failure in the unique power supply used or in the amp circuit board seems like it could require knowledge from the original designer.

I exchanged e-mail with Class D audio and checked their mailing address on Google Street View before ordering, but in considering your question I decided to lookup their business registration in California. The California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) appears to have suspended their registration in May 2021 because they did not file their annual Statement of Information (SI) due in September 2020. The record I looked up was for Class D Audio LLC, which lists the same the 1149 Pomona Rd, Suite F address that the amps shipped from.

It's hard to draw a conclusion from that. It sounds like a small business run by engineers not taking care of paperwork. If it indicated trouble for the enterprise, it seems as if they would have folded over the last 18 months. Alternatively they could have registered under a new name with different leadership and I pulled their prior registration. It's not confidence-building information, though.

Third, it looks like the resale depreciation is about 40%...does this seem reasonable for a new product?

I was prepared to ship the amps back within the evaluation period if they were not obviously better. I expected they would be not quite as good or just ambiguously different from my XA-25, in which case I would have returned them. Resale value was not a serious consideration in that context--I wasn't going to keep them if they weren't something I would like to have around for the long term.

If the price were not modest in the context of hi-fi equipment, however, I would not have risked it.

[RonN5]

I will say that it always frosts me when a company doesn't put its address and phone number on their web page....maybe no one else cares but it just makes me feel like "what are you hiding or afraid of".

At any rate, people seem to be happy with them and in the end, that is what matters.

[catluck]

Interesting what gets folks upset.  No address on the website?  If you have an issue it's no more difficult than contacting the vendor and asking.  How exercised is one going to get about that?  As far as established reputation and repair issues, I can say that in purchasing many pieces that have failed, from "reputable" manufacturers, I have often been disappointed in the customer service which really amounted to little more than a significant repair bill and not much more.  Yes, at least the maker may still be in business and that is certainly an issue but I've suffered through too many "reputable" makers (whose marques I won't mention) whose business practices were less than laudatory. But, as Tom Rost has noted, and I've reported in this thread, Class D Audio has been around for about 14 years (and still here after C-19).  So I'm not much concerned. 

In fact, I just asked Tom do so some specialty work on a second set of monos I just ordered and he didn't charge me a dime.  His email opened with "no problem..."   Opening up the MiniGans to check soldering, etc., is verbotten because they have a seal, like many retail pieces, which if broken apparently voids the warranty.  That's pretty common so it shouldn't be a surprise that few, if any, have opened their unit(s).  One can check with Tom about that if concerned.   

Some here may recall that I checked with the secretary of state, as noted in an earlier posting on this thread and I noted the issue NewZoo refers to.  For me, being a practicing business law attorney for over 35 years now, it's a non-issue. The failure of small companies to comply with business filings in a timely fashion is about as common as crabgrass in California.  Not worth comment or concern IMO and particularly given how folks in this very thread have noted timely delivery upon ordering and fabulous listening results. In the end, it's about confidence in the product and manufacturer and both are a crapshoot until one has personal experience allowing an informed opinion.  But I note that nobody has yet provided any derogatory information concerning the quality of Class D Audio products or a failure to stand behind same.  Ultimately, a simple email conversation, well, several actually, with Tom Rost laid my concerns to rest. So much ado about so little and which could be resolved with such minimal effort. Either you come away trusting Tom and willing to try his product FOR THE COST OF SHIPPING (knowing you may listen for 15 days and return with no questions asked)  or you don't.  Perspective, use it or lose it.

[catluck]

I forgot to mention resale value. What a joke in high-end audio. Yeah, there are legacy pieces which will hold value, very few actually when considering the market.  But most of us know that the depreciation curve of audio kit mimics the trajectory of a hammer thrown from an aircraft.  That's virtually industry/product wide.  You walk out of a stereo store (I know, I'm dating myself... what's a "stereo store?") and kit depreciates 25-40% before you exhale.  Resale value??? Really?  Isn't that why so many of us buy used? Let someone else eat the depreciation. It doesn't take too many instances of buying new and then reselling to figure it out.  But, when we're talking about $1,500 monoblocks how much depreciation will one suffer - can one suffer? At 50% you've lost a whopping $750. Hardly worth discussing.  Actually, not worth discussing.

[Mr. Big]

I forgot to mention resale value. What a joke in high-end audio. Yeah, there are legacy pieces which will hold value, very few actually when considering the market.  But most of us know that the depreciation curve of audio kit mimics the trajectory of a hammer thrown from an aircraft.  That's virtually industry/product wide.  You walk out of a stereo store (I know, I'm dating myself... what's a "stereo store?") and kit depreciates 25-40% before you exhale.  Resale value??? Really?  Isn't that why so many of us buy used? Let someone else eat the depreciation. It doesn't take too many instances of buying new and then reselling to figure it out.  But, when we're talking about $1,500 monoblocks how much depreciation will one suffer - can one suffer? At 50% you've lost a whopping $750. Hardly worth discussing.  Actually, not worth discussing.

You make some good points. But if any product is perceived highly then it holds its value, I sold my 16 year older MC402 for 60% of what it cost new back in 2006. This johnny come lately class D companies that are popping up left and right and for a good reason, many can get the class D circuits premade and open the market. Cannot compare that to Nelson Pass and others who have to design their products from the ground up, not even close pre-sale cost-wise.

But all of that has nothing to do if a class D sounds good for small and for the most part unknown companies. And most audio companies do state their addresses phone numbers and other important information. Cherry products have been around for a good while with contact info, PS Audio has been around for a while and makes class D amps, Jeff Rowland also, and a few others, but you have to pay more and there is a reason they are made better with much more costly to manufacture and build them. There is no free lunch and built over-the-top casing and such does not mean always better sound, but much more status and status has got zip for assuring good sound and I have owned them for over 40 years, some are well worth the money, others not so.

[catluck]

MR. Big,
I hear you. You mention some of my fave's (particularly Pass whose products I've owned and loved).  But I'll tell you this: after holding the Class D Audio, and again this is not a fly-by-night enterprise unless you consider 14 years fly-by-night and/or that Tom Rost is being untruthful when asserting he's been designing/selling amps for that long, it's solid kit that inspires nothing but confidence. When you turn the units on, no spitting, popping, clicking, nothing but dead silence. And, as noted in the threads herein, extraordinary sound.  Moreover, I fear that many consider the overbuilt audio jewelry to be the norm. I've come to respect the audio engineer who's able to resist the tendency to pander by building large and heavy when neither are required nor honoring "form follows function."  And I get that aesthetics is wholly meaningful. I just don't discount makers who can't/won't engage that paradigm.  Some of my all-time favorite amps were built by a gentleman, George Wright, now passed away. George once built me a pair of 2A3 amps and the casement and transformers actually showed external signs of rust. Really garage-built looking shit.  But their sound? Their reliability? Their soul? Glorious and unimpeachable. Just like George - one of the kindest men I ever met.  Likewise, Doyman Planov, in Prague who built my custom Hartung OTL's which are utterly remarkable and the antithesis of the audio jewelry so common today.  George and Domen and Don Hoglund (Granite Audio) are small time makers of gear that has something most of the McAudio makers do not - soul, sauce, juice.  Perhaps I've been lucky in that my gear has proven so reliable - indeed every bit as reliable as the big boys and, in fact, more so. I won't tell you how many times I had to return my PS Audio transports with their $18 ASUS drive.  And, at  $200/pop to send back to CO, wait several weeks waiting, shipping to and fro....After the first time I took the damn transport apart myself, saw the shitty cheap ASUS drive and bought 6 off Amazon. Ended up replacing them 4x's over the next 2 years.  And, be clear, I respect PS Audio and hope they continue to do well. Good people working hard to build good products. Similar stories for other big boy makers. The point is that thinking the "big boys" do better quality or design because they're the big boys has proven, for me, to be utterly fallacious. In fact, I've actually represented several makers whom I won't/can't identify and I know the financial pressures associated with commercial audio.  Maybe if more folks saw the "sausage" being made they might not invest so much confidence in the big boy paradigm.  FWIW

[Charles Xavier]

I haven't seen any comment about flimsy or unsafe build quality. Photos of the inside posted elsewhere show an unremarkable and reasonably tidy interior with just a few solder points for internal wiring that nobody has raised concerns about. ASR tripped internal protections in the third-hand amp they tested, so even a possibly damaged amp was failing safely. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mini-gan-5-inside-jpg.125295/

This is certainly a concern with any small and/or startup company. When I bought one of the first MicroZOTL amps from Linear Tube Audio, a capacitor failed in the first two weeks. That seems to be a common point of failure for solid-state amps, and a cap could probably be replaced by any number of people. However, a failure in the unique power supply used or in the amp circuit board seems like it could require knowledge from the original designer.

I exchanged e-mail with Class D audio and checked their mailing address on Google Street View before ordering, but in considering your question I decided to lookup their business registration in California. The California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) appears to have suspended their registration in May 2021 because they did not file their annual Statement of Information (SI) due in September 2020. The record I looked up was for Class D Audio LLC, which lists the same the 1149 Pomona Rd, Suite F address that the amps shipped from.

It's hard to draw a conclusion from that. It sounds like a small business run by engineers not taking care of paperwork. If it indicated trouble for the enterprise, it seems as if they would have folded over the last 18 months. Alternatively they could have registered under a new name with different leadership and I pulled their prior registration. It's not confidence-building information, though.

I was prepared to ship the amps back within the evaluation period if they were not obviously better. I expected they would be not quite as good or just ambiguously different from my XA-25, in which case I would have returned them. Resale value was not a serious consideration in that context--I wasn't going to keep them if they weren't something I would like to have around for the long term.

If the price were not modest in the context of hi-fi equipment, however, I would not have risked it.

I've been checking out the website and the price is very reasonable and I'm thinking of trying one out. They have a decent return policy

[musicdre]

sparked by the conversation in this thread, i picked up a Gold Note PA-10 GaN Fet amp.  running it in stereo on my M3s.  it sounds great.  as good as any solid-state (or tube) amp ive tried - and about equal with the class D Nord One NCore.  The Nord presents the stage wider and more open.  The GoldNote has slightly better bass and perhaps a bit more "coherence" (tho the flipside of that coherence is it that it could be termed a slight "congestion" by a listener that values spaciousness over it).  both amps put forth amazing clarity and dynamics, are quiet and run cool.  both the Nord and the GoldNote really shine with the M3s - and are relative bargains by amp price standards. 

for now i am keeping them both.  AND looking to try a Purifi amp too.

color me impressed.

[newzooreview]

This johnny come lately class D companies that our popping up left and right and for a good reason they can get the class D circuits premade and open market. Cannot compare that to Nelson Pass and others who have to design their products from the ground up,…

One of things that interested me about the Class D Audio Mini GaN 5 was that they designed their own amp and power supply. They have their own boards made. They are not buying pre-made modules from someone else.

In fact, I'm not sure that there is an off-the-shelf GaN FET class D module like there is with the Purifi, Hypex, or ICE MOSFET Class D.

Is that correct? Orchard, Class D Audio, Audion, and Atmasphere use their own designs. Are the Peachtree and LSA GaN FET amps using a pre-made amp module?

[catluck]

NewZoo
I see your observations as spot-on re: certain GanFet products rely on uniquely designed boards and power supply implementation and, to my knowledge, you've identified some of the unique brands.  One might suppose that the GanFet makers are, of course, new because, well, GanFets are new.  Audio applications are only a few years old.

Also to suggest that Pass and certain other current MOSFET designers have designed their products from "the ground up," is, I think, overstatement. Not to denigrate their brilliance, but the basics of amplifier design have been well known since the 50's (or earlier).  Pass, like all other current designers, stands on the shoulders of many previous designers (Hafler, Marantz, Corderman as examples) and I suspect that Pass would readily admit this fact. Indeed, if anything is "ground up", it seems more likely that the new GanFet circuits, capable of exploitation in ways not seen in MOSFET designs, are better examples.

[catluck]

Musicdre,
The Gold Note is a beautiful piece but it's not really a GanFet amp. It uses MOSFETS in the output stage and features GanFets only in its output oscillator.  That it runs cool might be because it appears to have a built-in fan! See "https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-this-gold-note-pa-10-power-amplifier.24984/"  Myself, I've never been a fan of built-in ....  GanFet output stages don't have, don't need, built-in fans. They don't even, or barely, have heat sinks! So this design is not really exploiting GanFets in the way that Orchard Audio, Class D Audio, Atma-Sphere, etc., do (and not that you claimed it does).  But if the most compelling aspects of the new GanFet technology are its relative simplicity, light weight, low cost, low heat dissipation, small package, and extraordinary sound quality, it seems GanFet output stages are required.  Nonetheless, as has been said too many times here, if you enjoy the sound...