[TheChairGuy]

I got a Blu-ray player last week or I guess two weeks ago now and I went with a Samsung Up-5000 it is a phenomenal blu ray player, plus it plays hd-dvd (I just got King Kong for less than 5$ shipped)  Add the reon video scaling and the bitstreaming or internal decoding of all surround formats, and you have yourself a hell-of-a player.  If they ever go live with the BD 2.0 profile update for it it will be unbeatable.  Only issue they don't make it anymore, price range is 275-350 though, and they are still releasing firmware updates for it.  The oppo though which should come out it 3-5 months will blow it away for blu ray player with built in SACD and DVDA and anchor bay video scaling, for 5-600 though according to oppo.  For under 400 though I agree the bd-35 can't really be beat.  I would also take a look at the Bd-2550 from samsung the upconversion is the same as the up5000.

You sure the upcoming OPPO has DVD-A?  The pics I saw had no indication of DVD-A on it....merely DVD-Video and SACD (and Blu-ray, of course)

That would be a special universal player if so....

John

[BluFan]

There's no question that there are more affordable players out there, but even today- for my money, I would, without question, still go for a PS3. I don't play many games and the PS3 is still the benchmark in terms of playback quality; but really the decision comes from just how integrated it is with the rest of my apartment. All the computers run through it- we (my roommates and i) listen to music, watch tv shows, and do countless other things with the media center components of it. Couple that with how easily it can be updated (and the games) and it's a no brainer. The extra money is easily worth it in my opinion. I've actually been working with Warner Home Video on some blu-ray projects and really put BR players through their paces. PS3 still comes out on top.

[ted_b]

[
You sure the upcoming OPPO has DVD-A?  The pics I saw had no indication of DVD-A on it....merely DVD-Video and SACD (and Blu-ray, of course)

That would be a special universal player if so....

John

The early adopter feedback (75 pages on AVSForum) clearly states that DVD-Audio is problematic, but on the list for accomplishing within the BD-83.  So, no, it's not there yet, nor is clean TrueHD and DTS HD MA internal decoding yet.  This is a quote (bolded) from one of the lead early adopters, responding to this itialicized post:


"A quote from the "OPPO BDP-83 Blu-Ray Disc Player Update" email that came out from OPPO (so there shouldn't any NDA issues) on Dec 11th:

"As of this writing, the BDP-83 supports BD Profile 1.1 (BONUSVIEW), DVD-Video, SACD, and bitstreaming of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Progress is being made on a daily basis as our engineers work diligently around the clock to further enable DVD-Audio, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio onboard decoding, and BD Profile 2.0."

I am not puzzled that TrueHD, DTS-HD and 2.0 are issues "Progress is being made". OPPO has no experience with these technologies, programming, hardware. No surprise there.

What is very baffling is their inclusion of DVD-A! I looked at their other players, DV-980H 981HD and 983H. All of them include DVD-A. OPPO obviously has had the experience and talent to implement DVD-A for years. Why is it being a problem now? Isn't that like GM postponing the release of a vehicle because they haven't figured out how to make the brakes work? This is something that caught my attention a while back that I hope an electronics engineer can answer.

Show me another Blu-ray player that does SACD and DVD-Audio in the same box. Oh wait, you can't. You have to design the hardware (decoder and loader) to support the technology, then you also have to write the software to enable the embedded hardware support.

As they have had experience with DVD-Audio in the past, they are likely shelving it to the last minute while they introduce and iron out features which are completely alien to them (Please Note: SACD DSD is alien in its current form. OPPO has never released a product which support DSD through an external processor (in this case the ABT2010) nor have they ever released a player which supports native DSD over analog).  "


So the net is that Oppo is dedicated to releasing a fully universal BD player, but the DVD-Audio portion may be a later firmware release if this takes too long.

[undertow]

I will contribute with this.. I have tried the Panasonic, the Sonys, the PS3 which a friend has, and owned all the oppos up to date.. First for me DVD-A and SACD are non-issues and dead in my opinion. However Good redbook playback, and all the toys blu ray and standard DVD can provide are the main up to date needs for a good player universal or not. Priorities change quickly, and so does technology!! And don't forget Blu ray audio is and will already be replacing all the other hi res audio standards anyway at this point...

That being said I will not pay or even deal with the OPPO route this time, no need too, Sony invented the blu ray and it shows in the newest unit that does go above the PS3 finally. But here are the reasons why, and I wanted a 2 Channel Excellent transport to FEED into a GOOD DAC, with the best Blu ray and Standard DVD playback possible for little money with all the toys, online firmware support, solid 2.0 profile performance, high quality build and performance especially for audio transport duties... The Sony S550 after trying all the rest easily excceeds these needs. Now of course Sony will have another new version at some point, but not worried because this one already has perfection on all the necessary levels for a price to enjoy now with no future buyers or pocket book regret EVEN if you decide to replace it, but I doubt oppo or anyone will come with something much better if not worse.. See this link below to my original post on all this, tons of good info on this thread which is a little long, but if you want it all here you have it! Forget the panasonics, over priced denons and the like, and other models of sony or oppo! Save your cash, this is still considered a rather expensive player to most however. Also this is the FASTEST player I have used, even vs. many standard DVD players, plus this thing loads not only Blu ray dvd, dvd, but AUDIO Cd's VERY fast mostly in under 10 seconds.. Maybe from turning the unit on from a cold Off start its a little longer but swapping between discs etc.. Its just as fast on all formats as any other I have used over many years.

See link below... Oh and beyond all the other stuff this unit does the Deep color and xVV whatever or another modes as well and it looks as good as it gets if you have the display to do true 1080p 24 fps, did I mention its a killer 2 channel transport with priority coax or toslink mode too? By the way besides all this, no need to go and order online, or from oppo at least you can simply go to the local store and try this bad boy out and decide for yourself, many will not return it trust me as long as you can get a good price on it.

Disclaimer: I sent back the 983 as the top sony is easily as good on all formats, and I sold my 980 h already, I am a HEAVY oppo supporter but in this changing tech, and getting what you need for the price this is the first I have been able to move past them in any given scenario for several reasons, unless your using it stand alone without external DAC which I can't say sony will sound as good as the Oppos with the Cirrus dacs in them. Also if you don't care about the full on audio than Highly suggest the S350 from sony over all other models any manufacture, which is nearly identical to the performance on the S550 and save a few bucks.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1230738445&openmine&zzUndertow&4&5#Undertow

[ted_b]

Undertow,
Although I disagree with a lot of your findings, you are certainly allowed them.  (small joke)   I will agree that it is all about priorities and trade-offs.  You wanted a 2 channel cd transport and a BD player that is quick and does Deep Color.  Others want good audio out of the analog outs, or want format flexibility (SACD and DVD-A are important to some people, me included).  There is no perfect player (the Pio BD-09 is close, with all it's dedicated DACs and separate HDMI for audio and video..but it's $2300!!!      ).

I will say, though, that, in my opinion, it is a risky platform to state that "but I doubt oppo or anyone will come with something much better if not worse..".  There's always something better (and worse).  That's probably the reason we have these forums.   

[undertow]

Ted-b
Understood, I think the vein of the post was missed however, if you are looking for the extra processing, along with standard good analog performance on SACD and DVD-A than your options and opinions are absolutley correct.. HOWEVER, for the fact most here seem to be looking at performance aspect of Blu ray and DVD performance period for the quick and dirty cheaper solution and the types of machines Toshiba, samsung, lg, panasonic etc... Are producing trust me this one is the choice to look at... Especially if priorities are from the past bias towards OPPO's upconversion performance (Which I was a huge supporter of) and for the real hardcore 2 channel redbook guys with super expensive DA-convertors that thru COAX or Toslink have no use for SACD or DVD-A as it is... And HDMI SACD is an afterthought for most, This is a bigger majority than most would think..

Based on system performance in audio and video, and Optional features for a GREAT price without dropping the 699.00 or whatever Oppo is going to want for a full universal machine, this is the reason I dropped this option in the mix with very little to zero loss.. .OR for those that concerned they can EASILY best a new Universal machine even from Oppo for the most part unless they come up with some much lower pricing by simply getting the Blu ray machine from Sony with the best video performance, and adding in a dedicated transport or full CD player with SACD, redbook etc... with good onboard or outboard DAC... This way you don't tie yourself into these costly swiss army knive Denons and moddified Oppos etc... For big bucks and in the end can have the core video audio performance and CHOSE to spend bigger money on a 1000 dollar transport or other machine for the other audio needs for the small group looking for top dollar sound elsewhere.. But then again the mod companies that will try to suck out everything from a 300 dollar machine and make you pay 2000 more for it will still be around so anybody can go to that option too 

A couple more quick points for those confused, when we talk about SACD, DVD-A… 99% of the time this is going to be run Correctly to an outboard processor in a Receiver via HDMI, or its going to be done inside the machine and capable of analog outputs… Point being yes a NEW OPPO will have an advantage in this field due to implementing the SACD/ DVD-A in the unit and not make you buy a capable DAC which I don't see any Standalones with HDMI for this purpose So Oppo will provide you a nice standard RCA analog output if you really need this stuff, for core audio video performance I stick with buying a Good Sony blu ray player and a DAC… For those that need the full swiss army knive because you own so many SACD or DVD-A titles, than wait for the oppo for much more money or just separate the machine or keep the one you have to run these audio formats! Get the blu ray and DVD with surround functions in all the new studio formats just fine from the Sony's…

Only other reason anybody is still trying to hang onto a "One player" does it all campaign would be they just simply can't handle having the extra player for their audio only needs… and they really want to simplify it via running SACD/DVD-A etc.. from the same transport they play a blu ray in for whatever reason, and today it will not be because of money because I can almost guarantee you will save more, and end up better with dedicated players especially with all the options and connections we have available on newer displays, receivers, or 2 channel systems even.. That’s just my opinion after seeing so many things and formats fade over the last few years.. Besides I am in the camp with firmly remastered or well recorded PCM redbook can easily compete with good DAC's… However if you’re a Surround sound junky and also need the SACD bad enough, than yes you will need another machine vs. the Sony.. And Sony invented SACD and does not even put it on their players now!! It will be blu ray audio soon if anything so be prepared. 

End results if your waiting on the Oppo at this point do it for the right reason.. SACD surround and DVD-A surround capability if you even own any of the now obsolete and limited discs.. Otherwise get the best performance in audio and video that is or probably will be available from the Sony, which yes for all the crazy surround with HD true dolby DTS blah blah blah, this unit can in fact do it all, and has analog outputs with HDMI capabilities for all of this as well.. Again don't wait for the oppo if its simply because you found them the best with Standard DVD up-conversion, because they were, but this sony is as good as the 983 even for that!! So bottom line the new oppo will have the 983 capability with added on blu ray… And be a lot more money from what sources say.. Hey if its 299 or 399 opposed to the projected 699 than great! But don't think its gonna beat the sony especially in DVD upconversion and Blu ray, I don't see that after testing it out vs what most like to see today. That’s my point.    

Anyway DVD-A and SACD is literally all but gone.. I don't see anybody investing heavily in most machines in the future to support the formats at all.. Mostly seems even the majority of the audiophiles have moved on from it so all that’s left is the big money players to basically drop it from their units at this point, which anybody invested that heavily into it in the first place should already have a fine player capable of it, in which if you have an oppo 983 KEEP IT!! Very cheap investment to have these options and excellent DVD playback and as a great little transport.. However as the thread asks about blu ray, just get a Sony S350 and keep using the oppo as the ultimate solution.. Or combine the basics and a GOOD dac across the board as long as you have no use for SACD or DVD-A put in the S550, either way you more or less end up with 2 boxes on your rack! I truly believe most of the drive for the OPPO is the returning customers in hope that the already 983 adaptors will come back and go up a level to their all in one blu ray machine, but simply put just keep the 983 then as it don't get better for that cause and add the best cheap blu ray - DVD upconversion unit in the S350 and blow the doors of any Denon, pioneer or whatever for multi-thousands with or without modding! For the money that is      

[rydenfan]

If nobody is investing in SACD and DVD-A then why did Denon just put this new universal player out?
http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/ss13.html

[undertow]

rydenfan
Never said nobody "Would" ... Besides denon has a bunch of left over chips and R&D costs to still pay for so why not throw it on the machines for the 1 out of every 100 that will pay to go into a denon over somebody that does not offer it at all? Of course there will be a small market, but I can guarantee most buying the Denon did not necessarily go out of their way due to it having SACD, however that is not to say they don't have small audience that will make that a still good "Buying point" and still steal a buyer or two from the competition..

Besides that DENON has put themselves into the position of the market that they HAVE to try and cater still to all possible formats as they exist especially if they want to pull top dollar on those machines, that’s why… But believe me if they could walk away tomorrow and full blast put into running these machines blu ray, with excellent redbook, not all the complexities, and even just add a digital input for USB computer use etc… They would and they could profit even better from it!

All companies are feeling the failings and digital meltdowns of the recent years in so many changes and standard options.. The future is already here, its proving blu ray, and even PC downloading are fastly exceeding even the first explosive years of Standard DVD and CD… So support on many of the extras will be limited for sure in the future, you see it happening now. Hell even WADIA woke up from the long decade of stubborness and as soon as it took them like 5 years to finally come with a decent SACD machine they quickly almost had to shift gears and put out the cheapest and one of the most "advanced" technical products they have had to produce in an IPOD Dock(being sarcastic)… I mean it’s the writing on the wall kinda thing. Don't get me wrong I am not talking about SACD as quality as it is, or Ipod being superior as its not!! Just the trends and how advanced it has gotten to get you very different and cheaper quality… Blu Ray Audio will be on the forefront and 24/192 downloads, this is guaranteed now, so again if people have SACD no problem go for it! But don't do it for the wrong reasons was again my point.

Denon is heavily invested in SACD, and to be on the safe side they of course will not abandon it quite yet.. but in 5 years who knows...

[mvwhiting_83]

I'm lookng at picking up the Pioneer Elite BDP-09...  My processor does suround in analog only, and I am definitely not picking up a new processor just for HDMI.  The thing is definitely priced toward a certain demographic.  But if you want the absolute best this is it.  I've got a PS3, a first generation one at that.  The thing is louder than hell, too loud for my tastes...  And the thing sucks up heeps of power.  The PS3 on average consumes the power that two fridges would....Over the course of a year - according the NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council.)  That fact alone for me is too much for me to bear.  Yea the thing looks amzing, it's DVD upscaling is pretty outstanding, I just can't have that weighing on my conscience.

[Washburn]

Right now I'd buy Panasonic BD-60  or a Pioneer BDP-120
Both coming out in April.

[JeffBrown]

For me the choice would be between the Oppo, or the Cambridge Audio 640BD.  I like my existing Cambridge gear, and I couldn't do with out DVD-A.  The addition of SACD might be kind of cool too.

[Sound Science]

I am a little surprised that in all these posts no one has been talking about screen size.

On a 42" or smaller screen, all of the Blue Ray players have a killer picture regardless of price.

As your screen size gets larger then you start to see the differences in picture quality.

The PS3 really looks like an entry level product on a 73" picture.

So as you think about the right BPD Player, you should think about how big your picture is.

[oscar]

I have an LG BH100 dual format player which has worked well for the past couple of years.  Unfortunately, LG has recently been slow with firmware updates and a number of new Blu-ray releases are no longer playable (for now).

I also want a player which will perform DTS HD MA decoding with decent quality 5/7.1 analog outputs for my HDMI-challenged audio system; I too don't want to spend beaucoup bucks on an HDMI-capable preamp/processor.  The Pioneer Elite, Marantz, and Denon players at around $2k are on the short list.

[emac]

I am a little surprised that in all these posts no one has been talking about screen size.

On a 42" or smaller screen, all of the Blue Ray players have a killer picture regardless of price.

As your screen size gets larger then you start to see the differences in picture quality.

The PS3 really looks like an entry level product on a 73" picture.

So as you think about the right BPD Player, you should think about how big your picture is.

Been considering a PS3 for the video quality and all of the associated features, but since I have a 67" TV, this is concerning.  Any more info on this idea that there are differences in quality w/ larger TVs?  Thanks.

[Bob in St. Louis]

A higher resolution will always look better than a lower resolution on any sized screen. But regardless of the resolution, the bigger the screen gets, the poorer the picture quality will be. If you're happy with you 480, or 720 (or whatever you're currently using), the HD of a PS3 at 1080p will best them all on a 67" screen.

I'm using a PS3 (Bluray) and XBox360 (DVD) for a front projection system that has a 140" diagonal 16:9 screen.
Haven't had any complaints yet. However I'm really stretching the boundaries of what's acceptable for screen size, video source, and overall picture quality.

Yea emac, go for it. You'll have better picture quality than you do now.   aa

Bob

[Woodsea]

Oppo is very close to releasing their BD player, I just got an email from them.  Kind of spendy, but it will play everything under the sun except HD-DVD.
From the email:
OPPO BDP-83 Blu-Ray Disc Player EAP
 
Dear ,
 
We would like to thank you for the tremendous feedback that we have received from the community in response to our first BDP-83 Blu-ray player notification update. There were many great comments, suggestions and concerns which we will try to address in the release of the BDP-83. In particular, we would like to address the Early Adoption Program.
 
We have decided to take a democratic, by-the-people approach to the implementation of the Early Adoption Program. For the initial batch we will randomly choose 50 customers to participate in the Early Adoption Program. These 50 customers will have the opportunity to purchase the BDP-83 for $499 before the official release.  After using the player for about a week, they will be required to vote on whether the program should be expanded or suspended based on end-user experiences. If a supermajority (at least 70%) votes in favor of expanding the program, we will expand the Early Adoption Program by another 100 randomly chosen customers.  The player will be shipped with a pre-production firmware version.  Firmware updates will be available from time to time.
 
The initial 50 Early Adoption Customers will be chosen no later than February 25th using the random number generator at random.org.  After being contacted by us, the customer must place the order no later than 3pm February 27th Pacific Time; otherwise the opportunity to participate will be passed on to another customer.  A simple "Yes" or "No" vote on whether to expand the program needs to be cast no later than March 15th.
 
Terms and conditions for the Early Adoption Program, as well as the current program status, can be found at our web site:
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/EAP.aspx
 
We would also like to take this time to update you on the status of BDP-83 developments. The last two months have been very fruitful, as the player now supports BD-Live (Profile 2.0) and can internally decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio formats. DVD-Audio has yet to be implemented through firmware, but we are working diligently on this feature. A preliminary features and specifications list will be available on our web site on Tuesday March 3rd.
 

[soloz2]

the Oppo will have DVD-A before the official release, according to Oppo and from what I've gathered the general consensus of he beta testers.  More information should be available shortly as EAP members start receiving their units. 


As of today, I'd buy the Oppo, but then again I did.

[SharkyRivethead]

I am a little surprised that in all these posts no one has been talking about screen size.

On a 42" or smaller screen, all of the Blue Ray players have a killer picture regardless of price.

As your screen size gets larger then you start to see the differences in picture quality.

The PS3 really looks like an entry level product on a 73" picture.

So as you think about the right BPD Player, you should think about how big your picture is.

Been considering a PS3 for the video quality and all of the associated features, but since I have a 67" TV, this is concerning.  Any more info on this idea that there are differences in quality w/ larger TVs?  Thanks.

I have a 52" 1080i rear projection and a PS3., I have a beautiful picture. People have to remember other factors about displays, resolutions , distances, etc..
 At 8-10 feet, a 50" 720p will look no different than a 1080p. If your sitting to close to a display that is that large, you will notice resolution issues. There is a perfect medium so you can be in the emersive zone. But sitting to close will ruin the effect..
 I think the PS3 is perfect. Sony does periodic down loads that update the PS3. Like the last one allowed the PS3 to decode DTS-HD and Dolby True HD. This is awesome because my Yamaha A/V (RX-V661) is last years model. Before those codecs became the norm.  But now I can enjoy lossless because my PS3 will do the work. I do think most of Sony's BRP's will do the DLs, but I could be wrong.