What's the BEST Pre/Pro Under $6k?

TheeeChosenOne · « **on:** 19 Jul 2003, 01:55 am »

I've asked this question on other forums, but I like the wisdom here to all things audio.

I have a highly-hyped $3k Fosgate FAP-T1 for one month......And it sucks with relation to background noise. Geez, my $200 Kenwood receiver exhibits less noise than this unit that's advertised as DEAD silent. (BTW, yes, I have shielded cables and done the speaker and cable switching thing. It's only when the Fosgate is introduced into the chain that I get irritating noise from 10 feet away.)

Yes, I know of other competing brands: Anthem, ATI, Proceed, Aragon, Sunfire, Lexicon, etc.

What do you guys do to have a clean, effective, sensibly priced exceptional audiophile system for 2 channel AND HT for the same room.[/b]

Product names and models would be appreciated as well as your experience. Thanks!!...........

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 02:08 am »

I have a 2 channel Bent pre with HT bypass for 2 channel and I have a somewhat noisy B&K Ref 50 for HT duty.

The REF 50 is noisier in DVD-A mode and the left side surround is the noisiest channel in that mode.

I have heard that the Classe's and the Bryston 1.7's are pretty good for double duty. You should also try to demo the Arcam AV8.

I have also heard that the Anthem is not noisy for HT.

So far I have not heard any HT pre/pro I would also want to use for 2 channel but my pre/pro demo's have been limited. AS always, YMMV.

Some great threads on AVSFORUM

shokunin · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 02:11 am »

I use a Theta Casablanca II + XtremeDACs, although not in the under $6K category does a decent job with stereo and an excellent job on HT. I thought the Tag McLaren AVR was exceptionally clean and musical for its price. I felt it had bettered the MC12 for 2ch. though if you must have Logic 7 the MC12 would be better for surround decoding. Both Lex/Tag have excellent upgrade history.

The only issue I had with Tag was sending units back to the UK for servicing and upgardes.

My mix is 65% HT / 35% music, but slowly moving the ratio up on the music side. If you really want the best of both worlds, get both an HT prepro, and a 2-channel preamp with unity gain.

Marbles · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 02:20 am »

Quote from: shokunin

I use a Theta Casablanca II + XtremeDACs, although not in the under $6K category does a decent job with stereo and an excellent job on HT. I thought the Tag McLaren AVR was exceptionally clean and musical for its price. I felt it had bettered the MC12 for 2ch. though if you must have Logic 7 the MC12 would be better for surround decoding. Both Lex/Tag have excellent upgrade history.

The only issue I had with Tag was sending units back to the UK for servicing and upgardes.

My mix is 65% HT / 3 ...

I have heard the Theta has the best analog section of any pre/pro, but at $14K thought it out of his price range.

I had also heard that the TAG stuff was good, but they had a real shakeup in the USA over a year ago and I'm not sure how steady a company they are.

dogberry · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 02:57 am »

I have the Anthem AVM 20. I think it's amazing. Very easy to use, sounds great, the inputs are completely configurable, nice remote, etc.

List is $3500, but I got mine from my dealer for under $3k.

My current system:

Anthem MCA 50, AVM 20
Sony DVPS9000ES
Sony 34XBR800 TV
RS Audio silver ICs and SCs
Bolder digicable
MMF-7
Monolithic/Modwright PS-1 phono stage
Revel Performa M20/C30 speakers

shokunin · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 04:09 am »

Quote from: Marbles

I have heard the Theta has the best analog section of any pre/pro, but at $14K thought it out of his price range.

I had also heard that the TAG stuff was good, but they had a real shakeup in the USA over a year ago and I'm not sure how steady a company they are.

Yeah, Buzz G. no longer worked for Tag and it seems they've scaled down their presence here. Too bad.

Oddly enough, the top tier-ed HT prepro's don't off analog bypass, neither the Levison No. 40 nor the Meridian 861v3 offer analog bypass. They convert everything to digital and then d/a back. The Theta at least, gives you an option (analog matrix vs. analog direct/bypass).

Chops · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 05:20 am »

All of you will probably laugh at me, but I am using a brand new Yamaha RX-V740 (just released about a month ago), DD EX/DTS ES reciever as my pre/proc, and it is completely silent with any input source, analog or digital.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/RECEIVER/RX-V740.htm

I am completely happy with it. Even though it's not anywhere near the gear some of you have, I'm sure it can hold it's own pretty well. It will give much higher priced systems a run for their money!

My most current setup:

Yamaha RX-V740 Reciever
Sony DVP-NS755V SACD/DVD player
Panasonic SV-3700 DAT recorder
Technics SL-1700 Mk2 Turntable with Sumiko Blue Point & rewired with Kimber Kable
Nakamichi DR-1 Tape Deck
AudioControl Ritcher Scale x-over/ 1/3 octave eq
Carver TFM-35x THX Cert amp (Maggies)
Carver M400-t amp (Dipole Subs)
Panamax 1000 Power Conditioner/Surge Protector
JBL L112 center channel (1 Pair)
Magnepan MGLR-1 mains
DIY twin 15" dipole subwoofers
DIY 3-way towers (rears)
Optimus LX-5 with Linaeum tweeters (rear center channel /1 Pair)
Isonode Large Feet for most components (arriving next week)

Interconnects:

Kimber Kable
Cardas
Analysis Plus
IXOS
Transparent Audio
L A T International

Speaker Cables:

9 AWG Space & Time (mains)
9 AWG Kimber Kable 8TC (subs)
12 AWG Monster Cable Original (all other speakers)

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 05:26 am »

Actually, I won't laugh, but maybe shed some tears...

My Pioneer Elite VSX 27 TX receiver was silent (only 5 channels).

I really liked it as an HT pre/pro. Not for 2 channel duties though.

Most times I'm sorry I went up to 7 channels and think of the $$$$$ I could have saved on speakers, amps and pre/pro's had I stayed with 5 speakers only.

The REf 50 is OK, but not a step up except in # of channels from the Pioneer receiver.

W.C. · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 05:45 am »

Cal Labs CL-2500 SSP.

bubba966 · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 05:47 am »

Marbles,

I'm in almost the same boat that you are. I had an Pioneer Elite VSX-26TX, which was great. But I felt the need to go for 7 channel, so I replaced it with a VSX-39TX.

I'm not terribly sorry I got the 39TX, but I frequently think that the 2 extra speakers & 2 channel amp to go fully 7 channel wasn't really worth it. 99% of the time the extra speaks aren't being used or aren't being used properly depending on the sound mix.

I think the Elite's of the last couple of years have been damn good processors. Especially the the VSX-49TX & VSX-49TXi. Though the 49TX & 49TXi are a bit lacking in amplification as they've got 7 channels of amplification in them compared to the 5 channels in the earlier 29TX & 39TX. But if you're going to be mainly using it for a processor, then the onboard amplification really doesn't matter.

My 39TX also has a direct mode, which is what I believe you'd be using as a HT bypass if you were using a separate pre. I'm sure the 49TX & 49TXi have that function as well. Not to mention many new functions the 49TX/TXi have over the 39TX. Being auto setup, upconverting the video sources to component video, more inputs (digital & analog), and better processors just to mention a couple.

I'd say look into picking up a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX or VSX-49TXi and then add a preamp of your choice. The 49TXi sells for just under $3k, which'd leave $3k for a good quality pre.

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 06:14 am »

Quote from: Chops

All of you will probably laugh at me, but I am using a brand new Yamaha RX-V740 (just released about a month ago), DD EX/DTS ES reciever as my pre/proc, and it is completely silent with any input source, analog or digital.

I am completely happy with it.

Just to give ya a little company here, I have a Yamaha HTR-5490 6.1 receiver that I was happy with til I came here in March. Now I dream,,,,, and spend money. I really kick myself in the arse for not getting the RX-V1200 version w/IEC & preouts. I did install an Acme cryoed silver IEC terminal w/ VenHaus PC and have lined the inside casing with Stillpoints ERS. I`ve also took those cheap plastic feet off and have the unit setting on Soler Points stainless steel cones. As far as 2ch. systems are concerned, not my cup of tea. I`ve always had a speaker in each corner of the room since the Sansui rear channel amp days of the early 70`s. I need that mix and the feeling of being surrounded by sound. And with the advent of DPL2, my life is complete. Almost,,,, need speakers BAD!

Regards, Robin

Sa-dono · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 06:32 am »

I would say go for the Anthem, Parasound Halo C-2, or Lexicon MC-8 (of course making sure you get a great price)...and get a great 2-channel preamp to help provide incredible music (given you already have a good CD player or DAC).

ton1313 · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 01:21 pm »

Integra Research RDC-7 is fantastic with 2 ch music or $4500 MSRP.
All of the major magazines loved it. I have had mine almost 2 years, & have never regretted it.

John Casler · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 03:10 pm »

Quote

What do you guys do to have a clean, effective, sensibly priced exceptional audiophile system for 2 channel AND HT for the same room.

Product names and models would be appreciated as well as your experience. Thanks!!...........

Since your specific question is "what gives the best Pre/Pro "AND" 2 channel performance, I would suggest the Bryston SP1.7.

It is in your price range with a list of $4695. It is built around their BP25 preamp so it has great 2 channel perfromance. And it has almost any process one could want.

I recently became a Bryston Dealer and my clients seem to prefer it over the Krell and many of the other names simply because of its excellent 2 channel performance.

Bryston will soon have a "Circle" here and you can ask James Tanner (or me) any questions.

That said the other models mentioned are all very good. The Anthem, the Parasound, etc, but if you found fault with the 2 channel performance of the Fosgate, the Bryston might be a good one to consider.

One other thing about the unit that could either be a positive or negative depending on your needs, is that it does not have "video switching". This is to reduce noise introduced by the circuitry. A companion video uint is available.

Look for the Bryston Circle.

Tyson · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 05:32 pm »

A used Lexicon MC-12 is in your price range, and it's the best I've heard.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 08:44 pm »

Do you like tube like sound? The Sunfire TG3 has 9.1 channel capability,
component video switching,balanced connections,holosonic processing,a phono stage, and is a great deal ( $2700 to $3500 depending on where you buy). I have owned it for around 1 year,
Every review I've read has been positive. Hear is one of the many review links:

http://www.stereotimes.com/

Let me know if you have questions.

satfrat · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 09:04 pm »

Quote from: witchdoctor

Do you like tube like sound? The Sunfire TG3 has 9.1 channel capability,
component video switching,balanced connections,holosonic processing,a phono stage, and is a great deal ( $2700 to $3500 depending on where you buy). I have owned it for around 1 year,
Every review I've read has been positive. Hear is one of the many review links:

http://www.stereotimes.com/

Let me know if you have questions.

Hi, a question, what do you have this processor tied to and how many channels are you using? Just curious. Thanx. Regards, Robin

witchdoctor · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 09:39 pm »

Good question. I have 3 Paradigm Active 40 speakers in front ( each driver has it's own amp internally) , two Paradigm Active DSP dipole speakers doing surround duty on stands positioned in the corners with the drivers facing each wall. Finally I have two Paradigm active 20 speakers on shelves near the ceiling on either side of the listening position. I use a VBT subwoofer which uses a new technology called VARTL. Extremely fast,tight bass.
I have the two active 20 speakers connected to the side axis connections which are unique to this processor. They provide information from the front left and right channels. I don't listen to the 6.1 surround channels.
The side axis channels are set 1 db lower than the others. It really adds
to a lifelike presentation.
I listen to either source direct or PL2 depending on the recording. I also really like the holosonic processing. Did you read that review?
The guy says
" No other upgrade has brought the level of improvement the TG3 did".
Pretty strong words from a guy that gets to hear all types of high end gear. I know Bill Laurent really enjoyed the sound when he was here recently.

Kishore · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 11:13 pm »

TCO,

What is your set-up? For $6K-Meridian 568.2 (beat MC-12 imho for music)

Cheers,
Kishore

witchdoctor · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Jul 2003, 11:20 pm »

Here is Wes Marshalls conclusion from hir review at Home Theater and sound:

In the under-$6000 price range, the TGIII is something you simply have to audition. Except for owners of the PLUS Avanti, or people averse to lots of lights, there is really nothing negative of import to say. The TGIII looks great, makes a beautiful picture, and is simple to use. Perhaps most important of all, the TGIII is a super-sounding audiophile preamp as well as a great home-theater processor. Highly recommended.