AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Home Theater and Video => Topic started by: Freo-1 on 29 Sep 2007, 10:48 pm
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I'm in a bit of a quandary over this issue. :duh:
I would like to get into the next generation for the HT rig, but cannot ascertain which way things are heading. Right now, I'm using a Denon 5910, and I'm pretty happy with it for Audio and Visual. The upscaling of standard DVD is pretty cool. and the only real difference I've seen (so far) with the new players are animated discs (which is readily apparent).
Also, what's the story with the new encoding audio formats? Seems like you either have to get a player that has on-board DACs, or, get a new receiver/preamp that encodes the format.
So I'm asking all you wizards out there, which way is this HD DVD vs. Blue Ray going? Could it suffocate like SACD/DVD audio has? :scratch:
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I just bought the Oppo 980 because...I don't see a real winner in this game. I have already read about upcoming HD formats that will surpass 1080p, and now that the new 65nm 360's are being sold I will probably just get the HD-DVD thru the M$ add-on along with the console.
I don't see the worthiness right now for either format, though. This is just my 2cents, but, if ya got the coin...go for it.
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Also, what's the story with the new encoding audio formats? Seems like you either have to get a player that has on-board DACs, or, get a new receiver/preamp that encodes the format.
No, you do not need to have a player with analog output OR a reciever/preamp that DEcodes the new formats. If the player can decode the format it is allowed to pass the resulting raw PCM as a digital stream over the HDMI output. It arrives at the receiver/preamp as digital and can be processed for bass management/room eq and then sent to its DACs or even directly sent to its DACs. This means you do not need HDMI 1.3, but rather 1.1 will work for most content.
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I just bought the Oppo 980 because...I don't see a real winner in this game. I have already read about upcoming HD formats that will surpass 1080p, and now that the new 65nm 360's are being sold I will probably just get the HD-DVD thru the M$ add-on along with the console.
I don't see the worthiness right now for either format, though. This is just my 2cents, but, if ya got the coin...go for it.
But isn't the oppo just as much as an entry level Toshiba HD DVD player? The Toshiba still upsamples and I found the HD-A1 was close enough to my Denon 3910 that I sold the Denon (and if you look you can find many threads where others did the same thing).
If the Toshiba upsamples on par with the oppo AND gives the capability to view HD DVD then why not buy it instead?
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Also, what's the story with the new encoding audio formats? Seems like you either have to get a player that has on-board DACs, or, get a new receiver/preamp that encodes the format.
No, you do not need to have a player with analog output OR a reciever/preamp that DEcodes the new formats. If the player can decode the format it is allowed to pass the resulting raw PCM as a digital stream over the HDMI output. It arrives at the receiver/preamp as digital and can be processed for bass management/room eq and then sent to its DACs or even directly sent to its DACs. This means you do not need HDMI 1.3, but rather 1.1 will work for most content.
Ok, so does that mean that if the player already decodes, and has a optical/digital coax output, then no new decoder is required? That would be good. See, my setup is 2004 vintage, and uses DVIfor video, and firewire/coax digital for audio (I run the HDMI video direct to the HDTV). I think the new players support at least one of those outputs as well as HDMI.
Right now, my best sound performance is using the IEE 1394 (Firewire) from the player to the amp.
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Ok, so does that mean that if the player already decodes, and has a optical/digital coax output, then no new decoder is required? That would be good. See, my setup is 2004 vintage, and uses DVIfor video, and firewire/coax digital for audio (I run the HDMI video direct to the HDTV). I think the new players support at least one of those outputs as well as HDMI.
Right now, my best sound performance is using the IEE 1394 (Firewire) from the player to the amp.
No, notice I specifically said HDMI. Unfortunately there isn't sufficent bandwidth for uncompressed pcm for more than 2 channels of audio over digital optical/coax. So if you use digital coax then the player is going to recompress the audio into DD or DTS and pass that to the receiver/preamp. However in that case you've lost audio quality.
As far as firewire I don't think you'll see that on any new gear. In a sense HDMI has superceded it.
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Ok, so does that mean that if the player already decodes, and has a optical/digital coax output, then no new decoder is required? That would be good. See, my setup is 2004 vintage, and uses DVIfor video, and firewire/coax digital for audio (I run the HDMI video direct to the HDTV). I think the new players support at least one of those outputs as well as HDMI.
Right now, my best sound performance is using the IEE 1394 (Firewire) from the player to the amp.
No, notice I specifically said HDMI. Unfortunately there isn't sufficent bandwidth for uncompressed pcm for more than 2 channels of audio over digital optical/coax. So if you use digital coax then the player is going to recompress the audio into DD or DTS and pass that to the receiver/preamp. However in that case you've lost audio quality.
As far as firewire I don't think you'll see that on any new gear. In a sense HDMI has superceded it.
Okay, thanks for that. So, my only hope would be to break out the HDMI out to DVI/Firewire if such a thing exists.
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I bought the Oppo because it does 1080p and has excellent audio capabilities. HDMI pass thru for SACD and DVD-A with compatible receiver, which I don't have but plan on upgrading in 18 months anyway. Do you see how cautious I am with my greenbacks.
I do have a 1080p monitor though, and a 720p projector for the replaced Samsung 841.
Plus it is black and it goes with the rest of my components except for my Belkin Pure/AV safety measures :thumb:
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I'm in a bit of a quandary over this issue. :duh:
I would like to get into the next generation for the HT rig, but cannot ascertain which way things are heading. .......
So I'm asking all you wizards out there, which way is this HD DVD vs. Blue Ray going? Could it suffocate like SACD/DVD audio has? :scratch:
Who is winning, Blu-ray or HD-DVD, and the corollary question, which type of disc player technology should I invest in? This is a frequently discussed topic on the web, including this site.
Sony has spent mega bucks pushing its Blu-ray format, and created a gaming console for that purpose. The HD-DVD camp has also spent mega bucks pushing that format.
The latest I have read indicates that it is pretty much a tossup at this point, with no clear winner likely in the next year or two.
Remembering that only a tiny fraction of the market has any type of HD player, and there are only a few hundred HD movies out there, I would say you have to pick one without trying to predict which will be a standard.
This is a brief article that shows how/why you can't predict at this point:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070925-hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-deadlock-to-continue-into-2009-at-least.html (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070925-hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-deadlock-to-continue-into-2009-at-least.html)
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I bought the Oppo because it does 1080p and has excellent audio capabilities. HDMI pass thru for SACD and DVD-A with compatible receiver, which I don't have but plan on upgrading in 18 months anyway.
Upsampling 480p to 1080p isn't the same as playing a source that is native greater than 480p (DVD). The absolute best an upsampler can do is match a native higher resolution (and that is VERY VERY unlikely).
There are HD DVD and/or bluray players that are 1080p. The cheaper HD DVD players aren't 1080p, but I'd rather have 1080i upsampling and capability to play back NATIVE 1080i over just 1080p upsampling.
An Oppo 980 from amazon is 169.99 with free shipping
A Toshiba HD-A2 is 237.88 with free shipping. The Tosiba is more money (<$70), but it comes with 5 free HD DVD movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen the Toshiba for less too.
If you are using them as a digital source (not using built in dacs) then the sound quality of both should be pretty close (just a transport). I'll admit that if you wanted DVDA and SACD then you need something like the oppo, but I really tried to get into multi-channel music and every disk I heard when I had my 3910 was just too gimmicky. I don't want to be on stage with the band. When certain instruments are behind me it is just weird. Because I just couldn't get into the multi channel music I actually changed out my surrounds from direct radiators to a more diffuse style of better movie surround effect.
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I went to an AV show a couple of weeks ago and was at a Blu Ray and HD-DVD demo. They were playing some concerts.
Now, I confess I'm a stereo purist. In fact I think 5.1 is a work of the devil ;-)
But the sound of drums coming from behind my head, whilst the picture was in front of me, was grossly unnatural. It seemed worse than useless: it took away the realism from the experience. When I'm at a concert I don't hear drums from behind me.
It was an attempt to show the "capability" of 5.1 in a musical setting but ended up as pure silliness.
Darren
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I bought the Oppo because it does 1080p and has excellent audio capabilities. HDMI pass thru for SACD and DVD-A with compatible receiver, which I don't have but plan on upgrading in 18 months anyway.
Upsampling 480p to 1080p isn't the same as playing a source that is native greater than 480p (DVD). The absolute best an upsampler can do is match a native higher resolution (and that is VERY VERY unlikely).
There are HD DVD and/or bluray players that are 1080p. The cheaper HD DVD players aren't 1080p, but I'd rather have 1080i upsampling and capability to play back NATIVE 1080i over just 1080p upsampling.
An Oppo 980 from amazon is 169.99 with free shipping
A Toshiba HD-A2 is 237.88 with free shipping. The Tosiba is more money (<$70), but it comes with 5 free HD DVD movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen the Toshiba for less too.
If you are using them as a digital source (not using built in dacs) then the sound quality of both should be pretty close (just a transport). I'll admit that if you wanted DVDA and SACD then you need something like the oppo, but I really tried to get into multi-channel music and every disk I heard when I had my 3910 was just too gimmicky. I don't want to be on stage with the band. When certain instruments are behind me it is just weird. Because I just couldn't get into the multi channel music I actually changed out my surrounds from direct radiators to a more diffuse style of better movie surround effect.
Regarding the surround music comment, I would mostly agree. The exception that I've noticed is many of the Classical recordings simply re-create the ambiance of the performance hall, which works well with my current setup.
From reviewing another thread (and the referral from this one), it seems like the best course of action may be to wait it out. I suppose that neither format could win (both fail to gain traction like SACD/DVD-A), and another format could (an single agreed to format) win out down the road.
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The way I see it, HD-DVD players have become so cheap that it's hard not to justify giving it a shot. This is coming from someone who has a PS3. I love Bluray, but I really would like to get an HD-DVD player. My problem is my is integrated amp is old... it only has two digital inputs (COAX and optical... no HDMI). I'll need to update to a new receiver before I add a third digital device, but that will cost a bundle.
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I say that it is going to go towards Blu-Ray as the new general format. It is (spec-wise) a touch better in that department, and will hold a little more room.
HD-DVD is pretty much well baked in right now. The players are getting cheaper.. but remember its all about the big picture for major companys and HD-DVD is really only marketed for movies, whereas Blu-Ray format is really covering everything from movies to media storage and blank discs.
I see laptops and computers having Blu-Ray drives in them pretty soon enough, and being backwards compatible (with the 2nd laser) to work with CD's and DVD's..
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I can see the point for blu-ray from the storage standpoint. Though, I have so many cdrs now, and it could start being the same way for blu-ray eventually. That to me a huge capacity flash-drive and a terabyte or 2 or solid-state makes more sense.
Everybody has USB, but not everyone will have a blu-ray, if you are wanting to share 1's and 0' of any kind. I have been been trying to share Divx back-ups and even then, some peoples cheap dvd players can't view them.
HD-DVD players are getting cheaper, but the software isn't compared to SDVD. You also have to factor in the HDTV home base, which is still very small, and even smaller to that which enjoys full 1080p.
My parents were talked out of that resolution and got a 720p, I was steamed :evil: , but my Dad just said in a few years, his eyes will be worse and that 50' will go in the bedroom. That is my inheritance he is spending :icon_lol:
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The thing that is so frustrating to me is that it is all driven by corporate market building instead of what is best for the consumer, or even what would make the consumers embrace the format.
HD-DVD burners were ready to be realeased early this year but they have held them back. For all the superior specs of Blu-ray, when will you see a 50GB disc? Maybe never? And have you seen the price of a 25GB disc, and the burners that are required?
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The thing that is so frustrating to me is that it is all driven by corporate market building instead of what is best for the consumer, or even what would make the consumers embrace the format.
HD-DVD burners were ready to be realeased early this year but they have held them back. For all the superior specs of Blu-ray, when will you see a 50GB disc? Maybe never? And have you seen the price of a 25GB disc, and the burners that are required?
Good point, but I also think egos get in the way. It seems to me that if all those egos could have agreed on a single format, the new format would have already had a greater impact. The players could already drop to 200.00 for the masses, which would have made it easier to grab market share.
My other pet peeve is the constantly changing interfaces. I finally get a really good thing going using firewire from the DVD player to the receiver, which sends the stream directly (including SACD) to the output stage (and it is easy to hear the improvement over optical/coaxial). So what happens? We now have HDMI, and stopped supporting DVI/Firewire (which one could argue that it is BETTER to split out than combining audio and video signals) :evil:
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yeah not to change the subject but I love firewire and dislike USB and HDMI
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FYI
SAN FRANCISCO--Intel and others plan to release a new version of the ubiquitous Universal Serial Bus technology in the first half of 2008, a revamp the chipmaker said will make data transfer rates more than 10 times as fast by adding fiber-optic links alongside the traditional copper wires.
Intel is working fellow USB 3.0 Promoters Group members Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, Texas Instruments, NEC and NXP Semiconductors to release the USB 3.0 specification in the first half of 2008, said Pat Gelsinger, general manager of Intel's Digital Enterprise Group, in a speech here at the Intel Developer Forum.
In an interview after the speech, Gelsinger said there's typically a one- to two-year lag between the release of the specification and the availability of the technology, so USB 3.0 products should likely arrive in 2009 or 2010. A prototype shown at the speech is working now, and USB 3.0 will have optical and copper connections "from day one," he added.
The current USB 2.0 version has a top data-transfer rate of 480 megabits per second, so a tenfold increase would be 4.8 gigabits per second. Many devices don't need that much capacity, but some can use more, including hard drives, flash card readers and optical drives such as DVD, Blu-ray and HD DVD. The fastest flash card readers today use IEEE 1394 "FireWire" connections that top out at 800 megabits per second.
In addition, USB 3.0 will offer greater energy efficiency, Gelsinger said. It will be backward compatible, so current USB 2.0 devices will be able to plug into USB 3.0 ports.
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Interesting news on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disks available in Europe
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-war/blu+ray+only-titles-found-abroad-in-region+free-hd-dvd-312535.php
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I bit the bullet and became an HD early adopter because I had a 110" screen which I had been feeding a steady diet of Dishnetwork HD broadcasts. I was no longer satisfied with DVD so I had to do something. I opted to "hedge my bets" and picked up a dual format player this past February/march.
In early Summer, Blu-Ray used to have a decided edge in Studio support with Disney/Fox/Sony being Blu-ray-exclusive, Universal being HD DVD-exclusive and Warners/Paramount being neutral releasing movies on both formats. This past August, Paramount decided to go HD DVD-exclusive despite the 2:1 software sales advantage for Blu-ray. Now both formats are fighting fiercely for consumer hearts and minds this Holiday season. Paramount delivered a big blow for HD DVD with "Transformers" but Blu-ray still have some big blockbusters coming up for the Holiday season (e.g. Spiderman 3, Cars, Rataouille, Diehard , etc...). HD DVD will counter with Shrek 3, Bourne Ultimatum). Both formats will have the Harry Potter blockbusters.
Thus far, Blu-ray still has a 2:1 software sales advantage while standalone sales are still uncertain; Excluding the PS3, HD DVD had a significant hardware sales up until summer when Sony Blu-ray standalone players were outselling Toshiba HD DVD players by a small margin. Since then, Paramount defected and player prices have dropped. Blu-ray does have the edge in number of CE manufacturer support.
I have both Blu-rays and HD DVD discs but I have now taken the position that Blu-ray needs to win this format war simply because of its storage advantages (50G vs 30G) and available bandwidth (48 Mbps vs 30 mbps) for video and audio bitrates. The story is less clear if this has translated to a picture quality advantage for Blu-ray but I believe it is there (others will disagree, particularly the HD DVD advocates).
What's more apparent to me is the audio advantage for Blu-ray. I believe this is the reason "Transformers" was released with a lossy DD+ soundtrack and not a lossless TrueHD soundtrack, a criminal act IMHO because this is supposed to be an HD special effects demo extravaganza. Virtually every Sony/Fox/Disney release has included a lossless audio soundtrack. In contrast, less than 15% of HD DVD movie releases have included lossless audio. Part of it is studio indifference but I think the biggest reason is the bandwidth/storage limitations of HD DVD. The movie tracks are now predominately use 24/48 master audio tracks and the HD formats give us the capability to actually listen to the master audio tracks.
Blu-ray has already released three (3) discs with both high-def video combined with 5.1 24/96 lossless audio tracks. Another way to look at it is combining DVD-A music disc with a high def video. HD DVD is probably not capable of doing this without with serious video quality compromise because of the bandwidth limitations.
Both formats support the standard DVD audio codecs (DD/DTS/DTS 1.5 mbps core). HD DVD players are mandated to support DD+ which replaces DD and typically provides "decent" lossy audio at 1.5Mbs. There are also the lossless audio codecs. Both formats (in theory) can support 7.1 24/192 lossless audio which can come in the form of DTS HD MA, TrueHD or simply "straight-up" uncompressed LPCM. The issue is the hardware needs to be upgraded to support it. I think you need HDMI 1.3-compliant hardware (both player and receiver or pre/pro) to support the advanced audio codecs. Alternatively, you can get a player with 5.1 analog outputs with an existing receiver with 6 channel analog inputs. But the player has to have internal decoding capability to support the advanced audio codecs.
I'm using an LG with 5.1 analog outputs fed directly to a multichannel analog preamp/switcher which gives me 5.1 PCM, 5.1 DD+ or TrueHD for Bluray, 2 channel DD+ or TrueHD for HD DVD or 5.1 DD/DTS. Or I can route DD/DTS/DTS core via coax/optical to a pre/pro for decoding. I cannot currently decode DTS HD MA lossless audio which is only now being supported by the latest hardware. In the interim, DTS HD MA-capable discs include a DTS core 1.5Mbs playable by virtually any DTS-capable HT system. At some point, I will have to buy a new player to support DTS HD MA but a suitable player with internal decoding does not yet exist. A Samsung 1400 player will send DTS HD MA via HDMI bitstream to a suitable receiver (new Onkyos) which can decode the DTS HD MA stream.
Be sure to place donations in the offering plates being passed around.
Amen.
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I went to an AV show a couple of weeks ago and was at a Blu Ray and HD-DVD demo. They were playing some concerts.
Now, I confess I'm a stereo purist. In fact I think 5.1 is a work of the devil ;-)
But the sound of drums coming from behind my head, whilst the picture was in front of me, was grossly unnatural. It seemed worse than useless: it took away the realism from the experience. When I'm at a concert I don't hear drums from behind me.
It was an attempt to show the "capability" of 5.1 in a musical setting but ended up as pure silliness.
Darren
The instruments in the rear thing is an acquired taste. Fortunately, most of the classical SACDs ( and a few jazz/rock) simply use the rear channels for ambience. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for some of the jazz/rock releases. OTOH, I get a kick out of the 'aggressive' surround mixes for "Dark Side of the Moon", "Tubular Bells", "Brain Salad Surgery".
I saw a Blu-ray DTS demo with a video of Peter Gabrielle and and DTS HD MA (lossless) audio track at RMAF. Yeah, it had an aggressive sound mix but it became a guilty pleasure.
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I bit the bullet and became an HD early adopter because I had a 110" screen which I had been feeding a steady diet of Dishnetwork HD broadcasts. I was no longer satisfied with DVD so I had to do something. I opted to "hedge my bets" and picked up a dual format player this past February/march.
Thus far, Blu-ray still has a 2:1 software sales advantage while standalone sales are still uncertain;
I have both Blu-rays and HD DVD discs but I have now taken the position that Blu-ray needs to win this format war simply because of its storage advantages (50G vs 30G) and available bandwidth (48 Mbps vs 30 mbps) for video and audio bitrates. The story is less clear if this has translated to a picture quality advantage for Blu-ray but I believe it is there (others will disagree, particularly the HD DVD advocates).
So..how many HD DVD disks have you actually bought? How many Blu-Ray have you actually bought?
The problem with the "advantages of the Blu-Ray format" argument is that we don't know if in the end there will be real advantages to the consumer. Will the studios/distributers really give us all of this potential quality on Blu-Ray or will they just try to save a buck in the end? Will the average consumer be able to afford all the gear needed to really take advantage of any potential quality difference? Would they be able to understand/appreciate the difference?
Of course I want what the Blu-Ray format offers if and when the price comes down to what I want to pay, but these companies currently want to make too much of my money. I also don't want a rootkit on my PC or Hi Def player (which is a computer) :evil:
But also I'm just not feeling the need for an HD format right now.
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So..how many HD DVD disks have you actually bought? How many Blu-Ray have you actually bought?
I've bought one Blu-Ray disc and zero HD DVD discs; however, I've set up my Netflix account to send me the Blu-Ray versions of movies and I've watched at least twenty Blu-Ray movies since I got my PS3 last December.
-Rob
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But also I'm just not feeling the need for an HD format right now.
Or more to the point a heavily DRMed one.
I'm glad SACD/DVD-A failed: the only reason for their birth was to introduce DRM. CD is more than good enough for most people (and, although this isn't central to the point, I agree with them). The point is the industry was pursuing its own interests, and people showed what they felt about that with their wallet. I say thank goodness CD is still our format because if I want to listen to music I buy on my PMP, or make backups, or stream it through the home, I can.
At the moment we are used to shiny discs for movies but it's heading the same way in terms of flexibility we enjoy. People who are already used to streaming DVDs through the home, watching them on their PDA etc are not going to like all the DRM in Blu Ray and HD-DVD when the same technology becomes capable of hi-rez.
There is one difference between the audio and the AV story. Most people perceive the HD video formats deliver usefully better quality...we just need to drop the DRM!
Darren
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There's an interesting article in Widescreen Review where one of the heads of a movie company said that they selected HD-DVD because a current player can play all features on a new disk, as can the original players. (I tossed my copy, and I can't remember which movie company they were.) With Bluray, they keep adding new stuff to the standard and make the addition of the new stuff optional. This means a new disk with new features might not be playable on an older player (at least the new features will not be). Now, most of the features sounded like junk to me (I'm not a big fan of "go to our website" features), but to the studios, they aren't junk.
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I bit the bullet and became an HD early adopter because I had a 110" screen which I had been feeding a steady diet of Dishnetwork HD broadcasts. I was no longer satisfied with DVD so I had to do something. I opted to "hedge my bets" and picked up a dual format player this past February/march.
Thus far, Blu-ray still has a 2:1 software sales advantage while standalone sales are still uncertain;
I have both Blu-rays and HD DVD discs but I have now taken the position that Blu-ray needs to win this format war simply because of its storage advantages (50G vs 30G) and available bandwidth (48 Mbps vs 30 mbps) for video and audio bitrates. The story is less clear if this has translated to a picture quality advantage for Blu-ray but I believe it is there (others will disagree, particularly the HD DVD advocates).
So..how many HD DVD disks have you actually bought? How many Blu-Ray have you actually bought?
The problem with the "advantages of the Blu-Ray format" argument is that we don't know if in the end there will be real advantages to the consumer. Will the studios/distributers really give us all of this potential quality on Blu-Ray or will they just try to save a buck in the end? Will the average consumer be able to afford all the gear needed to really take advantage of any potential quality difference? Would they be able to understand/appreciate the difference?
Of course I want what the Blu-Ray format offers if and when the price comes down to what I want to pay, but these companies currently want to make too much of my money. I also don't want a rootkit on my PC or Hi Def player (which is a computer) :evil:
But also I'm just not feeling the need for an HD format right now.
So far, I have 53 Blu-rays and 10 HD-DVDs. All consistently better than their DVD counterparts in terms of picture quality on my display. OTOH, I have a much larger screen than your average Joe. Nevertheless, I would expect anyone with a decent 40+" HDTV display could appreciate the difference between an HD movie and an upsampled DVD movie (not that most folks have a 40+" display).
I will concede studio indifference can adversely impact the quality of the remasters minimizing the advantages over DVD. E.g. the early MPEG2 Sony transfers and this years' crop of mediocre Universal releases do not take full advantage of the HD media formats. However, we've also seen stellar transfers, especially since the studios have learned how to used the AVC and VC1 video encoding techniques to full advantage. The increased bandwidth/storage capacity of Blu-ray allows the use of higher bitrate encodes which in turn makes it easier to use less TLC in the encoding process while still delivering a great picture. E.g. I've noticed more "soft", less "HD-like" scenes with HD DVD releases than with Blu-ray releases.
The other advantage is audio quality. Lossless audio tracks are 2D4 compared to standard DVD DD/DTS if you have a decent multichannel sound system. Even 1.5m DTS/DD+ is probably a big improvement over DVD sound. And most movie soundtracks are derived from 24/48 sources so the lossless tracks will be at a higher resolution than CD. I'll concede most home systems will not be able to take advantage of this right away without a probable Receiver or Preamp/processor upgrade in addition to the player (though you will be able to take advantage of 1.5m DTS with optical/coax digital audio to typical receivers).
I don't plan on routinely connecting my HD player(s) to the internet; so this doesn't worry me very much. What does worry me is the possible need for firmware fixes because BD-J and BD+ haven't been tested properly prior to implementation with both CE manufacturers and studios. I finally have a disk I can't play (because of audio dropouts) and I'm still waiting for firmware fix from the manufacturer. I expect I'll be downloading the "fix" to computer, burn a .iso file to disc and insert into the player to accomplish the upgrade. This is not an exercise I would expect your average Joe would be keen on undertaking. Such is the life of an early adopter. DVD early adopters had it worse; they had to replace players, not just firmware.
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But also I'm just not feeling the need for an HD format right now.
Or more to the point a heavily DRMed one.
I'm glad SACD/DVD-A failed: the only reason for their birth was to introduce DRM. CD is more than good enough for most people (and, although this isn't central to the point, I agree with them). The point is the industry was pursuing its own interests, and people showed what they felt about that with their wallet. I say thank goodness CD is still our format because if I want to listen to music I buy on my PMP, or make backups, or stream it through the home, I can.
At the moment we are used to shiny discs for movies but it's heading the same way in terms of flexibility we enjoy. People who are already used to streaming DVDs through the home, watching them on their PDA etc are not going to like all the DRM in Blu Ray and HD-DVD when the same technology becomes capable of hi-rez.
There is one difference between the audio and the AV story. Most people perceive the HD video formats deliver usefully better quality...we just need to drop the DRM!
Darren
There is really no point in having HD movies for viewing on PDAs. HD movies are for viewing on a large display usually in an HT room (or what passes for one). Yeah, DRM bothers me a little but I don't typically "archive" movies and I've yet to trash any of the DVDs or HD movies I own. I also don't expect DRM to work; it's already been broken for AACS (used with both HD DVD and Blu-ray) and it remains to be seen how effective the Blu-ray-peculiar BD+ DRM technology is. If it actually works, you can bet the studios will flock to use it. It means the customers screwed on making "archival" copies but c'est la vie. Frankly, my money is on the hackers to make the studios finally realize DRM in any form will not work.
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There's an interesting article in Widescreen Review where one of the heads of a movie company said that they selected HD-DVD because a current player can play all features on a new disk, as can the original players. (I tossed my copy, and I can't remember which movie company they were.) With Bluray, they keep adding new stuff to the standard and make the addition of the new stuff optional. This means a new disk with new features might not be playable on an older player (at least the new features will not be). Now, most of the features sounded like junk to me (I'm not a big fan of "go to our website" features), but to the studios, they aren't junk.
Paramount made a decision to go from Neutral to HD DVD-exclusive. There was NYTimes article which suggested an HD DVD proponent paid Paramount as much as $150 million for 18 month HD DVD exclusivity. If true, this was probably a good business move from Paramount's perspective despite the lost Blu-ray sales (2:1 advantage over HD DVD).
I've had my player for six (6) months and have only had issues with the latest Fox release (Fantastic Four:Silver Surfer). I suspect this is related to BD+ not implemented in the player properly but I expect a firmware fix to correct this. I also expect every Blu-ray or HD DVD disc ever produced will be playable with my current player; though there is the possibility of the occasional firmware fix to ensure playability. Toshiba had similar firmware fix de jour during the early days of HD DVD.
As far as the extra features are concerned, I don't give a hoot. The primary criteria for me is Movie picture and sound quality.
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Looks like Walmart will be selling a $198 Toshiba HD-DVD player
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=ad3191239d1414e2622579fbfb1f454e&t=927755
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Looks like Walmart will be selling a $198 Toshiba HD-DVD player
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=ad3191239d1414e2622579fbfb1f454e&t=927755
A couple of folks, including a Wal-mart employee, seem to think this is a close-out sale on discontinued and overstocked A2 players. I'm still a tad worried; rumors are this player is also appearing at Circuit City. The newer Toshiba A3s are currently priced at $300 at Best Buy while Samsung, Sharp, and Sony Blu-ray players are still priced at $500.
The potential saving grace for Blu-ray is after a Wal-mart shopper picks up an A2, what is he going to do when he finds out the movies cost $30, he can't play Spiderman, Fantastic 4, Diehard, Ratoullieie, Cars, etc... Blu-ray discs, and he can't rent HD DVD at Blockbusters ?
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The movies are to damned expensive. You can download them for much less, really how many times are you going to watch them anyway? The movies that get played in my house the most are the kid flicks. Do you think they really care about the difference in sound or sight, hell no.
These two are going to die, I feel like a putz now for buying the Matrix trilogy for $23 on HD-DVD.
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The movies are to damned expensive. You can download them for much less, really how many times are you going to watch them anyway? The movies that get played in my house the most are the kid flicks. Do you think they really care about the difference in sound or sight, hell no.
These two are going to die, I feel like a putz now for buying the Matrix trilogy for $23 on HD-DVD.
Heck, DVDs were just as expensive (or more) when they first came out. And I know a whole lot of people who buy boatloads of DVDs and watch them only once or twice. I started down that route until I got the HD media itch......
If you got a big screen HDTV, even the kids would notice the PQ differences.
And I thought I got a good deal for "Transformers" at $15.00... I couldn't have scored a Matrix Trilogy for half price at Circuit City; they had a price cap on their Buy one, Get one (BOGO) free disks. Expensive couple of days for me. Best Buy Blu-Ray BOGO plus a botched Circuit City BOGO at which at some stores included HD DVD as well as almost all Blu-rays. Frys' occasionally has killer deals on HD media if you simply wait.
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If folks buy an HD or BR without realizing they can't play ALL movies then they should have done their homework. I voted yesterday and picked up an A35. They finally got cheap enough with all the features I need (5.1 analog out) and while they don't support ALL movies, they support enough.
I would have held out for the Sammy combo player but $750 (my cost) is too high a price to pay for me.
I don't think either of these formats will "win". There will be some other media that comes along, even if it's online, on-demand streaming that will take over. As long as they can make the pipe big enough for it to be lossless for both audio and video.
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i definitely belief Blu Ray will win
nature of ppl is they dont want two "formats" for an identical function.
also retailers do not want two have two formats, ( double store space--> expensive) in Holland already a major
dvd retailer only advertises and pushing blu-ray disks because of last year they sold 3 BD for 1HD
its just a matter of "little" time (halfway next year?)
Si i finally took the plunge and bought the Sony BDP-S300
downloading 1080p movies is even with high adsl-2 a PITA and wil never become mainstream
and less than 1080P will not do, marketing will take care of that
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Looks like Walmart will be selling a $198 Toshiba HD-DVD player
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=ad3191239d1414e2622579fbfb1f454e&t=927755
Looks like its the HD-A2 for $98. :o :o :o
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Looks like Walmart will be selling a $198 Toshiba HD-DVD player
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=ad3191239d1414e2622579fbfb1f454e&t=927755
Looks like its the HD-A2 for $98. :o :o :o
This is a GREAT deal, 1 day only Friday 11-2-07. Theirs a lot of good HD DVDs out.
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I am itching to buy one of these format players ever since I bought my newer model 58" plasma (native 1080p). The problem is blu-ray hasn't seemed to nail down their specs yet and broadly provide HDMI 1.3 for the lossless audio output (I know you can decode on player and send to reciever as LPCM). HD-DVD is there and is back compatible with previous versions. However, I ultimately am most interested in renting from blockbuster, both online and in the store. I don't buy videos except for the exceptional few.
I also don't want to have to d/l a flick off the internet...even with broadband that is going to take a while for high def and lossless audio.
Does anyone know if blockbuster is still providing HDDVD for rent online? Doesn't look like they have much online anymore although I found quite a few blurays.
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I haven't used BB but I get Blu-ray and HD DVD movies/concerts from Netflix weekly.
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Thanks for the info Pete, but I had a really bad experience with Netflix and swore I'd never go back. I am a member of BB's online program and have been happy with the experience, although they are raising their prices now.
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I'm pretty sure BB still offers and will continue to offer HDDVD online but not in their corporate stores. That said, i also use netflix. I tried BB twice and had bad experiences both times.
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BB web site is a little funny finding HD DVD but their there. Look's like Best Buy and Circuit City will price match the Toshiba HD DVD player.
http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/collections/hdDvdPackage (http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/collections/hdDvdPackage)
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Tomorrow only, in store only, wal mart has the HD-A2 for $98.87, while supplies last, starting at 8 am.
It is listed on this Walmart secret sale page, which I found from a link at slickdeals.net. I would link to it, but I can't call up slickdeals from work (I was on my blackberry when I found it).
I was not sure, because it only does 1080i, and I was going to hold out until blu ray players get cheaper, for I think I will go to my local walmart tomorrow morning, and see if I can snag one.
BTW, they also have sanyo 50" plasmas for $998 and Acer laptops for $348. Looks like an early Black Friday sale.
Randy
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Just keep in mind this one does not do 1080p, only 1080i. But I doubt the average Wal-mart customer has a 1080p TV (I know I don't).
For most people this is a great deal! A lot of digital TVs will deinterlace the 1080i anyway!
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Just keep in mind this one does not do 1080p, only 1080i. But I doubt the average Wal-mart customer has a 1080p TV (I know I don't).
For most people this is a great deal! A lot of digital TVs will deinterlace the 1080i anyway!
And, if you don't want to do wallmart, you can order it online at best buy for business
details here
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=645351 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=645351) :drool: (emoticon courtesy of my daughter)
Randy
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Well I pre-ordered the Panasonic BD30K blu-ray player since the cost (~$370 with EPP) was about the right point and it has the features I was looking for and a brand I trust. I will decide later on whether to pick up a Toshiba A35. The two players combined are about the same price as one of the combo players and the combo players reportedly don't do full justice to both formats (typically the HDDVD).
BR has enough traction where I care for it (decent sized section in my local BB and plenty of choices online) and the price was approachable. I am just itching to watch some flix in HD with the 1080p plasma.
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Josh
I've been using a Panny BD10A for bluray and have been very happy with it, analog outs are very nice. BD30/BD10A are almost the same (firmware update).
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I ordered a Tosh HD-A2 from best buy this morning for $100 shipped, plus tax.
I am looking forward to hooking it up to my Onkyo TX-SR-705, to see how uncompressed 7.1 audio sounds.
Randy
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The fact that the A2 outputs 1080i doesn't matter. I've read numerous times that the 1080p players (from both camps) do 1080p to 1080i to 1080p coversions within the unit (I don't know why, I've just read it on several forums). Having your TV/PJ do the last conversion instead of the player should not change the quality of the image. I have a JVC RS1 1080p PJ and a PS3 and bought an HD-A2 from Best Buy yesterday ($89+tax)... I watched Transformers (HD-DVD) and thought the image was spectacular (no different than Blu-Ray). The main difference between the HD-A2/3 and the others is the A30 and A35 can output a 1080/24 signal and the A35 can also send HD-MAdts bitstream over HDMI. If you have a newer PJ, then you'll want to get one of the better two, and if you intend on getting one of the newer receivers, then the A35 is the ticket. Personally, I'd like to get the A35, but I'll wait a bit... then move the A2 to a secondary room. This deal was just too good to pass up.
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Big blow to HD DVD today.
Warner Bros. will back only Blu-ray (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-01-04-warner-brothers-blu-ray_N.htm)
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Very interesting...
Well it looks like putting a larger investment in Blu-ray may turn out to be the right move.
As of today, my Blu-ray/HD DVD ratio is about 4:1 in favor of Blu-ray. :thumb:
I also paid really good prices for my HD hardware and software:
Toshiba A35 and A3 were at very low prices + each came with 10 free movies.
My average price for new HD DVD's is about $13 so good on that front too.
Let's see what happens over the coming months.
George
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...and perhaps the nail in the coffin?
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393 (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393)
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The Dagger.......
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http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8555&Itemid=2
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http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/hd-dvds-fall-like-dominoes/?ref=technology
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http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/11/ritek-hybrid-bd-hd-dvd-disks (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/11/ritek-hybrid-bd-hd-dvd-disks)
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http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/11/ritek-hybrid-bd-hd-dvd-disks (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/11/ritek-hybrid-bd-hd-dvd-disks)
Its basically over for Toshiba and HD-DVD, studios what one format to go forward with. I picked up a HD-DVD (XA2) player awhile back for a good price and its one of the better DVD players I’ve had. Everyone should start dumping HD-DVD players and movies soon.
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Another factor to take into consideration is the Global market, after all both formats are global in geographic coverage.
Even though the North American market is significant, Europe and Asia are critical also and have to be taken into consideration into the arguments as to who has and who hasn't won. All the recent announcements from the Blu Ray camp are just part of the propaganda, as are the announcements from the HD camp.
As an outsider I see neither camp has captured the imagination and desire, that will generate demand, from the majority of the potential market. On this basis I see both formats so far have failed. DVD represented a significant step change in convenience, durability and performance over VHS. For the average Joe high definition DVD is an incremental performance improvement over standard DVD, why should he buy a player for $300?
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Interesting take from the engineering side.
http://www.edn.com/article/CA6517962.html?industryid=47043&nid=2436&rid=1646790957 (http://www.edn.com/article/CA6517962.html?industryid=47043&nid=2436&rid=1646790957)
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Its all Blu Ray from this point out! I thought it was going to go this way..
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Its all Blu Ray from this point out!
When I go into Best Buy, all I see are HD-DVD players. How is Blu Ray going to win if everybody has HD-DVD players?
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They will still have HD-DVD players but they would probably want to try to sell those out first and keep a lower stock of HD-DVD players since the new standard is going to become blu ray/players and media and flat screen monitors. It all works out if you think about it because there will be no more analog tv transmissions starting in 2009, what a great time to really push and sell newer high technology such as blu ray and lower the prices of LCD screens, (which I read are supposed to be projected to be lowered by about 18% this year). The screen I bought in 2005 is now less than half the cost today! :lol:
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Exclusive video from inside the bunker at Toshiba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ)
Caution, lanuage gets a bit blue.
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Its all Blu Ray from this point out!
When I go into Best Buy, all I see are HD-DVD players. How is Blu Ray going to win if everybody has HD-DVD players?
The BB across from my workplace in midtown Manhattan has a lot of HDDVD players on hand too...something tells me they bought a lot of stock cheap. They sell blu-ray too but it isn't as prominent. However their blu-ray movie section is more visible and stocked then the HDDVD.
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I have an older DVD player and I was looking into updating with an Oppo unit until the format wars shake out.
With the recent CES '08 Blue Ray buzz and traction they are getting, I'm now thinking why not get a Sony PS3 and kill two birds with one stone?
Can anyone comment on the more common stand def DVD video performance of the PS3? Would it be comparable to an Oppo?
If it helps, I use a Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK plasma with HMDI and composite inputs. It has 1,366 x 768 resolution and signal compatibility with 1080/60i, 1080/50i, 1080/24p, 1080/24sf, 1080/25p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/50p, 480/60p, 480/60i
Thanks,
Ken
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You can find a lot reviews about an Oppo's performance vs. the PS3 especially on avsforum.com with pics. I have both units and always used the Oppo for standard definition movies. I have a blockbuster membership and 90% of the time I watch blu-ray. That is why I decided to sell my 981 Oppo unit.
When I had my tv ISF calibrated, the calibration professional said to use the Oppo as it was superior to the PS3. I have never compared the two myself.
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I used my Oppo for SD movies until Sony released an upgrade for the PS3 to upconvert SD to a much higher quality.
It was many months ago. Once Sony updated the PS3 I sold my Oppo and use the PS3 for everything now. I have had mine for just over 1 year and it has performed perfectly from day one.
Some complain about the noise from the PS3. We sit about 11 feet away from my equipment rack and noise is not an issue for us even during quiet passages in movies. If it was positioned very close to where we sit noise could prove to be an issue.
I did not buy it to play games but it is a pretty nice option as I have rented some and they look amazing. I really recommend getting the available optional remote control as using the PS3 controller leaves a lot to be desired for controlling movie playback.
The PS3 is a really nice piece of equipment. The fact that Sony has been supporting it by releasing improvements via update/upgrades is really convenient. Once you have the PS3 setup for wireless it is the easiest update ever.
I have been thrilled with my purchase and recommend it to anyone wanting to get into Blu-ray.
-Nick
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Very interesting...
Well it looks like putting a larger investment in Blu-ray may turn out to be the right move.
As of today, my Blu-ray/HD DVD ratio is about 4:1 in favor of Blu-ray. :thumb:
I also paid really good prices for my HD hardware and software:
Toshiba A35 and A3 were at very low prices + each came with 10 free movies.
My average price for new HD DVD's is about $13 so good on that front too.
Let's see what happens over the coming months.
George
The leaked sales numbers for last weeks Nielsens are 85% Blu, 15% hd dvd, so it looks like you need to buy more Blu to keep your ratio in vouge. :D
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Exclusive video from inside the bunker at Toshiba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ)
Caution, lanuage gets a bit blue.
Achtung baby.....ya vole!!!!
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Warner made 63 million more dollars on Blu-ray than hd dvd in 07 despite hd dvd having 25 more releases including The Matrix, V for Vendetta and Batman Begins on hd dvd only.
So it's no big suprise that Warner, New Line and HBO went Blu only to get this silly pillow fight over and get all those consumers standing on the sidelines in the game with one format.
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I'm in a bit of a quandary over this issue. :duh:
I would like to get into the next generation for the HT rig, but cannot ascertain which way things are heading. Right now, I'm using a Denon 5910, and I'm pretty happy with it for Audio and Visual. The upscaling of standard DVD is pretty cool. and the only real difference I've seen (so far) with the new players are animated discs (which is readily apparent).
Also, what's the story with the new encoding audio formats? Seems like you either have to get a player that has on-board DACs, or, get a new receiver/preamp that encodes the format.
So I'm asking all you wizards out there, which way is this HD DVD vs. Blue Ray going? Could it suffocate like SACD/DVD audio has? :scratch:
I don't know what your using for a display, but I see a huge difference on our 40" Bravia 1080p/24 display or our projector on all Blu-ray's compared to dvd.
At any rate, Denon has two Blu-ray players coming out in the first quarter I believe, and Blu is the only way to go at this point.
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http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9856126-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt
Latest market data on HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray not looking to good for HD-DVD.
I hope the HD-DVD camp can turn it around, having Blu-Ray come out on top ,I believe, is the worse case scenario for the consumer. Why? - more expensive, regional coding, confusion on standards and Sony is too anti-consumer.
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Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity which translates to better picture and sound quality. Maybe not with most systems (currently) but anyone with a 100+" screen and/or ability to playback lossless/uncompressed audio are likely to appreciate the differences. PQ/SQ trumps everything else IMHO. The technically superior format won out.
expensive ? wait for economies of scale to take effect (just like with DVD)
Region coding ? minor irritant (too bad most of the BBC stuff is done with non-HD cameras)
Confusion with standards ? Hows the intermingling of terms HD, DVD, and HD DVD for confusion. (and folks mistaking DVD playback on HD DVD players as HD).
Sony too Anti-consumer ? That about describes every giant corporate electronics entity (e.g. Toshiba)
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9856126-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt
Latest market data on HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray not looking to good for HD-DVD.
I hope the HD-DVD camp can turn it around, having Blu-Ray come out on top ,I believe, is the worse case scenario for the consumer. Why? - more expensive, regional coding, confusion on standards and Sony is too anti-consumer.
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My Pioneer Elite 95 (Blu-Ray) should arrive today. I'm looking forward to it.
It was Warner changing sides that made up my mind on who would win "The War".
I think the player received mixed reviews... Im waiting for a great player with great reviews.. Not to mention the 1K retail price.
The thing that sucks about HD DVD losing the battle is that they had a much more reasonable pricing structure, and now that BluRay has no competition it will be that much longer for the pricing to drop.
Mike
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Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity which translates to better picture and sound quality. Maybe not with most systems (currently) but anyone with a 100+" screen and/or ability to playback lossless/uncompressed audio are likely to appreciate the differences. PQ/SQ trumps everything else IMHO. The technically superior format won out.
More storage is not technical superiority. I have both formats on a 110" screen thru 1080p and you can't tell them apart.
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Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity...
Agreed.
which translates to better picture and sound quality.
lost me there. :scratch: This simply doesn't follow. Necessary but not sufficient condition. The studios aren't likely doing anything different with the transfer for blu-ray than they would have done with hd-dvd. I don't think because they have more storage they are necessarily using that potential at the moment. I think the *can* use it at some point, but I don't think they want to yet, or are even incentivised to do so. Its like you said, not many will appreciate the difference on their <32" screens, which is their bread and butter. Audio/Video-philes are not their bread and butter.
FWIW, I own a blu-ray player, and don't own a hd-dvd, so don't think my rebuttal is just because I am a fanboy.
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Just to further chime in, the claim that more storage means better PQ is nonsense. Even the SQ argument isn't real.
I've seen both Blu and HD DVD on a 133" diagonal via 1080p [JVC RS1 fed with PS3 or HD-XA2] (and even 1080i via a HD-A1) and really don't see a overwhealming difference. None of it was the same movie, but if one was overwhealming better then having seen 20+ movies on both formats I'd be seeing it. For that matter some of the worst pictures I've seen from a HD source have been blu movies. We just watched Entrapment on Blu last night and it was still grainy in certain scenes (sky mostly). For that matter think about the first bluray version of Fifth Element. I didn't buy it because when I saw it in stores it always looked like #%$%#. Its still all up to the studio and the format doesn't matter.
Given that even HD DVD has enough room for a full 1080p and still have a lossless audio track (trueHD) where is the difference?
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What I've read was great PQ/SQ.
Everyone should keep in mind that most blu (or even HD DVD players) are being used as transports ONLY. If you are using HDMI for audio and video then the audio and video DACs are useless. This means that for the most part you buy on supported features (and potentially quality of normal dvd upsampling).
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Just to further chime in, the claim that more storage means better PQ is nonsense. Even the SQ argument isn't real.
How about Superbit DVD's? They use additional bitrate for better picture quality vs. regular DVDs. I can see that happenning with Blu-Ray / HD-DVD.
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Blu -ray had 93% of stand alone sales last week in the U.S. and 83% of software sales.
Add in the PS3 on top of stand alone sales and ....( insert own conclusion) here.
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For that matter some of the worst pictures I've seen from a HD source have been blu movies. We just watched Entrapment on Blu last night and it was still grainy in certain scenes (sky mostly). For that matter think about the first bluray version of Fifth Element. I didn't buy it because when I saw it in stores it always looked like #%$%#. Its still all up to the studio and the format doesn't matter.
I agree. I have seen some stunning PQ from a few blu-rays, Planet Earth being a very good example. Most of the bluray movies I've rented don't look any better than a standard DVD, but a few do, and I saw a couple of blu-rays that were just awful, because the original was probably awful. Its just as with anything else and they are using the new format's potential as a sale pitch for you to rebuy movies, or buy more movies on the expensive format when the actual film doesn't justify it.
Just like lot of CDs being compressed to hell wouldn't sound better on a hi-rez format because the source sucked to begin with. They should have to have some measure of quality printed on the box, so someone could decided if buying the movie on an expensive format was worthwhile.
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For that matter some of the worst pictures I've seen from a HD source have been blu movies. We just watched Entrapment on Blu last night and it was still grainy in certain scenes (sky mostly). For that matter think about the first bluray version of Fifth Element. I didn't buy it because when I saw it in stores it always looked like #%$%#. Its still all up to the studio and the format doesn't matter.
I agree. I have seen some stunning PQ from a few blu-rays, Planet Earth being a very good example. Most of the bluray movies I've rented don't look any better than a standard DVD, but a few do, and I saw a couple of blu-rays that were just awful, because the original was probably awful. Its just as with anything else and they are using the new format's potential as a sale pitch for you to rebuy movies, or buy more movies on the expensive format when the actual film doesn't justify it.
Just like lot of CDs being compressed to hell wouldn't sound better on a hi-rez format because the source sucked to begin with. They should have to have some measure of quality printed on the box, so someone could decided if buying the movie on an expensive format was worthwhile.
Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
Wow! EVERY Blu-Ray version is better? A good rule of thumb, I suppose.
I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.
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Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity which translates to better picture and sound quality. Maybe not with most systems (currently) but anyone with a 100+" screen and/or ability to playback lossless/uncompressed audio are likely to appreciate the differences. PQ/SQ trumps everything else IMHO. The technically superior format won out.
More storage is not technical superiority. I have both formats on a 110" screen thru 1080p and you can't tell them apart.
You mean the very best hd dvd look as good or close enough to the best looking Blu-rays.
Nothing looks better than Apocolypto, Ratatouile or Pirates of the Carribean on my 110" dlp 1080p set up.
The best sounding movies are also on Blu-ray and Paramount said they had no room for lossless on Transformers for hd dvd, so more space and bandwidth make a difference.
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
Wow! EVERY Blu-Ray version is better? A good rule of thumb, I suppose.
I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.
Neither have I but I have seen well over 200 and you will not find a single pro review where it says the Blu-ray version is inferior to the dvd version.
Even the crapiest looking Blu-rays look superior to the dvd version in every single case, and most sound far superior.
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Blu-ray has the superior Bandwidth and storage capacity...
Agreed.
which translates to better picture and sound quality.
lost me there. :scratch: This simply doesn't follow. Necessary but not sufficient condition. The studios aren't likely doing anything different with the transfer for blu-ray than they would have done with hd-dvd. I don't think because they have more storage they are necessarily using that potential at the moment. I think the *can* use it at some point, but I don't think they want to yet, or are even incentivised to do so. Its like you said, not many will appreciate the difference on their <32" screens, which is their bread and butter. Audio/Video-philes are not their bread and butter.
FWIW, I own a blu-ray player, and don't own a hd-dvd, so don't think my rebuttal is just because I am a fanboy.
When New Line announced it's specs for Shoot em Up, this was the first clue that Warner would go Blu.
The reason is that while the first two New Line releases would fit on a 30gb hd dvd, Shoot em Up would not.
And sure enough, no more New Line releases will be on hd dvd from now on.
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
Wow! EVERY Blu-Ray version is better? A good rule of thumb, I suppose.
I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.
Why wouldn't it be?
It has superior resolution (SD vs. HD) and improved sound (in most cases).
George
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Every day I'm more and more happy I got a great deal on that A35 HD-DVD player! :duh:
At least I didn't shell out $1k on a 1st gen HD-DVD player!
Oh well, I'll have to wait for the Sammy dual format player to come out and some down in price. Unless I upgrade my Denon receiver to something that does HDMI switching I'm going to need 5.1 analog outputs.
For now, I'm enjoying HD-DVD and the deals they have going on software. I'm not going to replace my whole collection anyway - just the stuff that will really POP in HD. And will also have to wait until they get their sh!t together with movies like 5th element which got a crap transfer. It'll be good to have that, LOTR series, Pirates series in HD.
By the way George, that new avatar is just obnoxious... :wink:
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
I didn't say it looked inferior to dvd, I said it looked awful, probably because the dvd did too...
It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.
That's a good point and I hadn't thought of that.
Blu-rays I have rented that I thought were no better than mediocre PQ (that I can remember off hand)
28 Days Later (crap PQ)
now I am drawing a blank at which BR's were subpar...my wife noticed it first and then I agreed with her. It was definitely a grainy quality and not superb detail. Could be the film thing. I'll have to think about which ones I rented on BR.
Maybe I'll check my blockbuster history to see which I rented on BR.
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
I didn't say it looked inferior to dvd, I said it looked awful, probably because the dvd did too...
It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.
That's a good point and I hadn't thought of that.
Blu-rays I have rented that I thought were no better than mediocre PQ (that I can remember off hand)
28 Days Later (crap PQ)
now I am drawing a blank at which BR's were subpar...my wife noticed it first and then I agreed with her. It was definitely a grainy quality and not superb detail. Could be the film thing. I'll have to think about which ones I rented on BR.
Maybe I'll check my blockbuster history to see which I rented on BR.
Yep, 28 days later was supposed to look like it was filmed with an everyday camcorder, and HD can only improve so much on that one.
28 weeks later however looks pretty good.
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Every day I'm more and more happy I got a great deal on that A35 HD-DVD player! :duh:
At least I didn't shell out $1k on a 1st gen HD-DVD player!
Oh well, I'll have to wait for the Sammy dual format player to come out and some down in price. Unless I upgrade my Denon receiver to something that does HDMI switching I'm going to need 5.1 analog outputs.
For now, I'm enjoying HD-DVD and the deals they have going on software. I'm not going to replace my whole collection anyway - just the stuff that will really POP in HD. And will also have to wait until they get their sh!t together with movies like 5th element which got a crap transfer. It'll be good to have that, LOTR series, Pirates series in HD.
By the way George, that new avatar is just obnoxious... :wink:
The original Fith Element Blu-ray release looked better than the superbit dvd played back on a 2k dvd player despite being rushed out to market with a so-so transfer.
The re-mastered Fith Element looks much better on Blu, and was swapped out for free to any buyers of the original release.
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It' pretty much already over in Australia, Japan and Europe with Blu considered the winner.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23095581-5014239,00.html
It's only a matter of time before the last two hold outs for hd dvd studios turn Blu with software sales ratios in the mid eightys for Blu in the U.S.
Amazon actually has a warning in it's Warner hd dvd listings saying Warner has gone Blu.
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There's very few decent points of comparison between the two formats. Warner's has been releasing the same video encodes on both formats so you would expect them to appear the same.
I have a sampling of both formats and to my eyes, the more recent releases on 50G discs have had consistently better PQ than the PQ on 25G and 30G disks. PQ can look very good on the smaller disks but not always consistent (e.g. "King Kong"' and "Troy" alternate between superb PQ and rather "soft" DVDesqe-quality PQ). I suspect this had to do with limited storage capacity driving lower video bitrates on the "less important" scenes. I'll admit it's only a lowly 720p FP w/ 110" screen. YMMV.
The video/audio bandwidth limitation is far more obvious with the relative lack of lossless/uncompressed audio tracks on HD DVD releases. How else to explain the absence of lossless audio tracks with "Transformers", "King Kong" and the vast majority (>80%) of HD DVD releases ? Contrast that with the presence of lossless/uncompressed audio tracks on almost 100% of the Sony, Fox, and Disney Blu-ray releases. PCM and TrueHD soundtracks have been consistently "cleaner", more dynamic, better detailing and separation, then typical lossy DD+, DD, or DTS core soundtracks (I've yet to hear DTS HD MA; I'll need a newer player for that.)
More storage is not technical superiority. I have both formats on a 110" screen thru 1080p and you can't tell them apart.
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Every single Blu -ray ever released is better than any dvd version, so lets hear the names of these titles you supposedly found inferior to dvd?....LOL
Wow! EVERY Blu-Ray version is better? A good rule of thumb, I suppose.
I couldn't say something like that as I haven't seen EVERY Blu-Ray title released vs. its DVD counterpart.
Please do not manually edit the quote tags unless you make sure to do it right. The above quote is NOT mine. That above quote is from our resident fanboy. However in this case while I actually wouldn't say every one is better, I'd be really suprised if we found any that weren't.
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It sounds like you like the look of HD video (Planet Earth) over HD film.
Film has grain and any HD version should make that grain more prevalant.
Grain makes the picture look like ....
How many of these movies with grain were shot on real film and what we are seeing is that film grain vs just not enough bandwidth on the transfer. It all still comes down to the studio more than the tech.
It is interesting you used Apocalypto as a example of high picture quality. I'd agree that certain shots were gorgeous, but there were some REALLY grainy scenes too.
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Cut and Pasted-
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet
01/24/08
Sales data for HD-DVD and Blu-ray players and movies has been misconstrued lately by various outlets, with reports implying that HD-DVD sales have fallen at an amazing pace while Blu-ray sales have blasted through the roof.
Not so fast, says the NPD Group.
While select articles have implied that HD-DVD as a format is doomed and the sky is falling for the format's supporters, the NPD Group this afternoon reinforced that sales results from a single week do not necessarily indicate a trend, and that the week in question had several intriguing variables that have gone unreported.
The NPD Group attempted to quiet the storm of online scuttlebutt with the following statement:
"As you may have seen, there are attempts being made to portray NPD's weekly sales tracking figures for next generation DVD as a trend. We want to remind you and make clear that it is not accurate to make long term assumptions based on one week of sales -- a cautionary point that NPD has made as well.
"The facts are that during the week that is being singled out, both Blu-ray disc players and software were being given away for free with the purchase of 1080p TVs. It is also important to note that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted Toshiba's players' MSRPs to $199 and $249 had actually ended on Jan. 5th -- causing an increase in HD DVD's MSRP back to $299 and $399 during that same week. Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales.
"Toshiba's HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer and the marketing campaign that just began is proving effective."
Just to throw some gas on the fire aa Seriously, just food for thought. With the new 3mm http://gizmodo.com/348864/sony-reduces-blu+ray-lasers-size-and-cost (http://gizmodo.com/348864/sony-reduces-blu+ray-lasers-size-and-cost)BR from Sony I am just as happy as long as I can retrofit into my Mac lappy
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competiters to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.
In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.
-
Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.
In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.
Your choice of analogy, as with pillow fight, is again pretty accurate.
IMAX is niche 'product' that has a small market share, just like Blu-Ray/DVD.
The old NTSC standard is a joke all around the world, consequently the gap between NTSC and 720p/1080i/1080p is huge. The introduction of standard DVD, native format or upconverted, is more than enough for the majority of the US market. They'll just get their HD content from cable or satellite providers, with Bose surround sound and hard drive based recorders built into their equipment.
Last year I was over in Europe and saw high def demonstrations: with smaller screen sizes and the superior PAL system, the extra performance gap with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exists but it is nowhere near as dramatic and has less interest/value to motivate consumers to embrace the change.
RIP High Def media.
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.
In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.
Your choice of analogy, as with pillow fight, is again pretty accurate.
IMAX is niche 'product' that has a small market share, just like Blu-Ray/DVD.
The old NTSC standard is a joke all around the world, consequently the gap between NTSC and 720p/1080i/1080p is huge. The introduction of standard DVD, native format or upconverted, is more than enough for the majority of the US market. They'll just get their HD content from cable or satellite providers, with Bose surround sound and hard drive based recorders built into their equipment.
Last year I was over in Europe and saw high def demonstrations: with smaller screen sizes and the superior PAL system, the extra performance gap with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exists but it is nowhere near as dramatic and has less interest/value to motivate consumers to embrace the change.
RIP High Def media.
I meant how Imax is always sold out when there are many 24 screen multiplexes showing the same movies in DLP or THX theaters.
With music, you are correct, with HD media, you could not be more wrong as the masses do not need to go to a high end brick and morter to see/hear the difference in crappy downloads vs BLU.
They can see it everywhere from Wall Mart to Best Buy, and everywhere in between.
I find it very interesting that a lot of vocal hd dvd supporters like yourself, now turn to this argument because your format of choice has no chance instead of embracing Blu.
It just goes to show there are movie fans, and there are format fans, but they are not always one in the same.
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.
In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.
Your choice of analogy, as with pillow fight, is again pretty accurate.
IMAX is niche 'product' that has a small market share, just like Blu-Ray/DVD.
The old NTSC standard is a joke all around the world, consequently the gap between NTSC and 720p/1080i/1080p is huge. The introduction of standard DVD, native format or upconverted, is more than enough for the majority of the US market. They'll just get their HD content from cable or satellite providers, with Bose surround sound and hard drive based recorders built into their equipment.
Last year I was over in Europe and saw high def demonstrations: with smaller screen sizes and the superior PAL system, the extra performance gap with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exists but it is nowhere near as dramatic and has less interest/value to motivate consumers to embrace the change.
RIP High Def media.
I meant how Imax is always sold out when there are many 24 screen multiplexes showing the same movies in DLP or THX theaters.
With music, you are correct, with HD media, you could not be more wrong as the masses do not need to go to a high end brick and morter to see/hear the difference in crappy downloads vs BLU.
They can see it everywhere from Wall Mart to Best Buy, and everywhere in between.
I find it very interesting that a lot of vocal hd dvd supporters like yourself, now turn to this argument because your format of choice has no chance instead of embracing Blu.
It just goes to show there are movie fans, and there are format fans, but they are not always one in the same.
If you care to read my posts: my position is not of supporting the HD-DVD format, but that of supporting neither format. Again it's yet another example of the fanboy's of both formats misreading data and presenting their own biased interpretations. When, in reality, the rest of the world doesn't really care.
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Circuit City to dump the hd dvd format from stores...saying they expect their competitors to be doing the same soon.
http://www.1080living.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
This is great news and hopefully every major chain will be dropping hd dvd so we can get the real war with Blu-ray vs DVD started, and the "pillow fight" hd dvd put up can end completely.
"Pillow fight" is a good description of the kindergarten fight between Blu-ray and HD-DVD (which I think you mean, not DVD).
With the growth of non-physical media in the audio sector: ipod/squeezebox etc, the physical media paradigm that has already happened here will quickly spread to video.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/18/jobs_on_bluray_hddvd/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22673034
If the two format camps had got their act together, and developed a unified standard, they may have stood a chance. Too late - both formats have lost.
I just don't see people wanting to watch movies on some tiny screen, or low bit rate 720p HD light. with dvd audio at best.
In the U.S., bigger is king when it comes to movies as the constantly sold out IMAX showings and ever increasing display size averages prove beyond a doubt.
In 09, many more people will have hdtv's as compared to now.
hd dvd's pending death will help with Blu-ray being the only viable HDM format to go along with those new hdtv displays, and when those new owners see the difference between Blu-ray and dvd, a lot of them will opt for Blu-ray which will continue to come down in price just like dvd did.
Your choice of analogy, as with pillow fight, is again pretty accurate.
IMAX is niche 'product' that has a small market share, just like Blu-Ray/DVD.
The old NTSC standard is a joke all around the world, consequently the gap between NTSC and 720p/1080i/1080p is huge. The introduction of standard DVD, native format or upconverted, is more than enough for the majority of the US market. They'll just get their HD content from cable or satellite providers, with Bose surround sound and hard drive based recorders built into their equipment.
Last year I was over in Europe and saw high def demonstrations: with smaller screen sizes and the superior PAL system, the extra performance gap with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exists but it is nowhere near as dramatic and has less interest/value to motivate consumers to embrace the change.
RIP High Def media.
I meant how Imax is always sold out when there are many 24 screen multiplexes showing the same movies in DLP or THX theaters.
With music, you are correct, with HD media, you could not be more wrong as the masses do not need to go to a high end brick and morter to see/hear the difference in crappy downloads vs BLU.
They can see it everywhere from Wall Mart to Best Buy, and everywhere in between.
I find it very interesting that a lot of vocal hd dvd supporters like yourself, now turn to this argument because your format of choice has no chance instead of embracing Blu.
It just goes to show there are movie fans, and there are format fans, but they are not always one in the same.
If you care to read my posts: my position is not of supporting the HD-DVD format, but that of supporting neither format. Again it's yet another example of the fanboy's of both formats misreading data and presenting their own biased interpretations. When, in reality, the rest of the world doesn't really care.
You may not care about HD optical, which makes me wonder why you even bother posting in this thread in the first place?
But obviously, HD optical is taking off faster than sd dvd did, and it's only going to get even faster adoption when there is only one format left ending the confusion.
http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6525812
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Hi def downloads have a place but they're not ready for prime time yet, IMO. Sure, it's awesome to be able to download Lost each week, but how many people are doing it? The currently available bandwidth is sufficient to trickle the HD content thru to the tiny amount of consumers buying it, but does anyone really think the infrastructure is there to support twenty five million households downloading American Idol in HD? I seriously doubt it. Plus, I'm not sure that J6P is willing to spend between 30 minutes and six hours of downloading per hour of content.
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By the time a "winner" has been decided...we'll all be using something else.
Of course, I don't have plans to buy an HDTV any time in the next couple years, TV just isn't worth that much to me...might buy a projector if I get out of this tiny apartment and can justify it. But the audio comes first for me. :)
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From MSN.com
http://tech.msn.com/news/articlecnet.aspx?cp-documentid=6172887&icid=tg6172887>1=10938
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Thanks for the link, Mike!
Good read, and of course I agree with it :wink:
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Thanks for the link, Mike!
Good read, and of course I agree with it :wink:
I didn't have time to read it yet, probably should, huh? :duh:
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Netflix goes Blu-ray exclusive with their announcement today, and Best Buy decides to choose and announce Blu-ray as their format of choice all in one day.
I believe these will be the final nails in hd dvd's coffin.
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Yep, I made my choice when I bought my PS3 a couple weeks ago. I'm too cheap to pay the premium to actually BUY BR movies ($30, are you kidding?), but w/ my Blockbuster on-line service I can get BR movies as part of the service just like I was getting SD movies before.
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Yep, I made my choice when I bought my PS3 a couple weeks ago. I'm too cheap to pay the premium to actually BUY BR movies ($30, are you kidding?), but w/ my Blockbuster on-line service I can get BR movies as part of the service just like I was getting SD movies before.
When you do decide to buy one that you think is own worthy, check out half.com or amazon.com instead of BB or CC.
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When you do decide to buy one that you think is own worthy, check out half.com or amazon.com instead of BB or CC.
That's a good idea... Thanks! I don't mind $10-$15, but some of those BR movies are $30-$35! I like watching good movies more than once and all, but woof!
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When you do decide to buy one that you think is own worthy, check out half.com or amazon.com instead of BB or CC.
That's a good idea... Thanks! I don't mind $10-$15, but some of those BR movies are $30-$35! I like watching good movies more than once and all, but woof!
I hear you, just remember though that dvd's where once 35-40.00, and VHS, D-VHS and Laser Disc where all that price or more money when they debuted.
When it comes to finding deals on Blu-ray movies, the net is usually the way to go.
There are currently 180 or so titles at Amazon that are buy two, get one free for instance.
Fry's, if you have one near you has sales every so often, but it's rare to get a deal at Best Buy, Circuit City, Wally World , Target or Sears ect.
When HDM hit the market I was buying many 25.00-35.00 Blu-ray and hd dvd movies but have slowed way down the last 6 months or so because I can rent Blu-ray at Blockbuster, Movie Gallery and Hollywood video who all seem to get most new titles with BB having the most catalog titles.
I sold all of my hd dvd's because from the beggining it most always seemed like Blu would win, and the first two players where a function nightmare compared to the first Blu-ray players.
I was shocked when Blockbuster first got Blu because dvd took a while longer to show up at rental chains after it debuted.
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I made an exception for this title because it's in my top 50 and has great early buyer reviews for both P/Q and DD-THD S/Q.
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/almost-famous-extended-edition.html
I imported this region free Blu-ray for 28.21 delivered from Amazon U.K. but some are getting it from sendit.com for 25-26.00 delivered which is not bad for an import title.
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Sorry for the diversion, but is it just me, or did Kate Hudson get a nose job? :scratch: Looks a lot different now vs Almost Famous.
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Sorry for the diversion, but is it just me, or did Kate Hudson get a nose job? :scratch: Looks a lot different now vs Almost Famous.
I was too busy checking out her other parts with a quick glance at that other american made beauty "Les Paul" to notice, but I believe you are correct.
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Sorry for the diversion, but is it just me, or did Kate Hudson get a nose job? :scratch: Looks a lot different now vs Almost Famous.
I was too busy checking out her other parts with a quick glance at that other american made beauty "Les Paul" to notice, but I believe you are correct.
Hmmm...sadly, pig that I am, I'd probably only notice if she got a boob job. :oops: aa :P