AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: Ultralight on 20 Jun 2015, 05:26 pm
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Now that the LIO has been out for a little while, it may be interesting to find out what speakers owners are matching to the LIO. For example, Vinnie matched the LIO with the Harbeth HL5 at shows. Perhaps a list of the previous source/amp you were using before the LIO make this thread even more interesting. It would be wonderful to see the diversity of how owners integrate LIO into their systems.
UL
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Well, I'll chime in here. I've been using LIO since its release (I was one of the first orders, I'm sure) with Audience 'The One' loudspeakers, in a desktop setting. I have since moved, and I have a crappy temporary setup with my set of Audience 2+2 loudspeakers in a nearfield setting. For those not in the loop, all Audience speakers use the same driver, and all are one-way (full range driver) configurations, just with more or fewer of the same driver in various configurations. 'The One' uses one of their drivers front-firing, with a rear-firing passive radiator, and a big wad of corrugated cardboard in the middle for damping etc. It's a single piece acrylic box. The 2+2s have two front-firing drivers and two rear-firing drivers in a bipolar configuration, with a side-firing passive radiator. In a nearfield/desktop setting, the 'The Ones' tend to work better, I hazard, because of the way one can position the radiator vs. a wall. The 2+2s work better when you can kind of knock them in a corner or toward side walls.
LIO performs spectacularly with these drivers. Prior, my RWA Sig 16 was the best thing I had to feed them, and it did a great job. LIO handily bests it. My backup amp is an AVA Media Maestro 50. It's a good amp for its size and all, but very clinical and sharp compared to either of Vinnie's offerings. I use QED Silver Micro cables, source right now is a Mac Pro 6,1; iTunes; USB. Telefunken E88CC, RVC.
Anyway, LIO (and RWA Sig 16) really get along well with Audience speakers. For anyone looking for a full-range driver solution… this one works…
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I'm desktopping LIO with the Boenicke Audio W5se, a 3-inch widebander plus sidefiring long-throw 5.25" woofer plus tiny rear-firing tweet, solid wood, rear-firing port with curved rectangular line. USB in for Spotify+, Qobuz and Tidal 16/44 streaming, Sennheiser HD800 for private sessions. Fabulous!
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Boenicke W5se as well. My LIO arrives any day now - will post impressions after break in. The Boenickes have blown me away. Sold my big vinyl rig and wanted something small and portable - laptop -> LIO --> W5se : can fit on a carry on and play in Europe or US.
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I don't yet have a LIO (yet) and I currently have Volti modified Klipschorns but I am upgrading to the full Monty Vittorias shortly which is why am keen to see a low wattage Class A module. The LIO is a pretty new concept and I am getting recommendations for various SET offerings notably Border Patrol which has been very successfully paired with the Vittorias at several shows.
http://www.borderpatrol.net/amplifiers.htm
http://www.voltiaudio.com/borderpatrol.shtml
The power supply of the BPs seems to be what sets it apart and I wondered if anyone can shed some light on whether that is correct and how the LIO could reasonably be compared to this option.
I am keen on a LIO config of AVC + tubestage and the planned Class A module.
Regards David
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You can expect LIO MOSFET AMP to work well with a wide variety of speakers, as long as you are not
asking for it to output more power than it can.
Speakers with impedance dips down to 2-ohms will still be ok and should sound fine - again, until you are trying to
push out more power than the output stage can deliver. LIO's MOSFET AMP has low output impedance (< 0.1 ohm)
and a very high current power supply - so it may trick you into thinking there are more ponies under the hood.
When I visted ALO Audio in Portland last month, we connected LIO to the massive Gamut RS9's (89dB, 4-ohm, dips to 3.2 ohm)
and they sounded stunningly good! We were easily breaking 90dB peaks and feeling the punch.
I also have a customer who was using a much more power amp (> 200wpc) into Vandersteen 3A's, and he
decided to try the LIO's MOSFET Amp and he was surprised how good it sounds and allowed him to
play at the same listening levels that he normally does.
At the other extreme, I expect Omega's and other single-driver, high efficiency types to work great with LIO.
LIO sounds mighty impressive with Harbeth 40.1s and I have been using my pair in a near field arrangement and
get amazing results!
DARKO tested LIO with KEF LS50s and Zu Soul MK2's (naturally, the Zu's will allow you to play louder for rocking out
at higher dB's).
Other reviews are in the works, and they have the LIO MOSFET AMP to report about. :)
I hope other LIO owners will chime in and post what they are using for speakers. Thanks for all your posts so far!
Vinnie
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Yes, I do expect that the Lio, with its high current capacity, to work well with a great range of speakers belying its 25 watts rating into 8 ohms. This thread is meant to be a confirmation of that as more and more users report in.
Thanks!
UL
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Another speaker giving a very good showing of itself on the desktop with LIO right now is the Coin Audio Mansion Compact, a 6" down-ported two-way with a 6-ohm nominal impedance and 86dB efficiency. Volume (USB in) is always below 40 on the dial so plenty of headroom to do real damage. :roll:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123389)
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Having moved a few things around for a current review, here's a terrific speaker combo with the LIO which goes beyond the desktop to a standard free-standing setup. These speakers are the Italian Albedo Audio Aptica, a 6" 2-way Accuton-fitted transmission line floorstander. Used for video, +/- 40 on the dial of an available 63 is all we manage. LIO's contributions here are absolutely awesome bass power and extension which you'd not believe looking at the speaker's svelte form factor and size. It's a very clever implementation of a TL, with two built-in Helmholz resonators to cancel the primary organ-pipe resonance of any open line. It does however respond noticeably to *current". Here LIO goes beyond other amps we've used here. And btw, this speaker is a low 85dB! Last night we did Jupiter Ascending (confused story line, too much disparate action crammed into a movie that shoulda been a short TV series instead) and we kept having to turn down the volume when things got boisterous as LIO really expanded the dynamic range (and the mastering engineers keep cranking up the gain whenever there's some explosion only to depress it again when there's dialogue - really bad).
Long story short, LIO aces this load so no need to think of its 25wpc 8-ohm rating as marginal when it comes to the right speakers...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123602)
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Hi Srajan,
Thanks for the posts. Both sets of speakers look interesting and I'll have to check out your preview/review pages on those.
And as always, nice pics and arrangement! 8)
Vinnie
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Joseph Audio Pulsars. Excellent soundstage.
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My LIO is fully loaded now (Phono/RCL, Input Select, RVC, Tubestage, DSD DAC, MOSFET amp), driving a pair TAD Evolution 1's. They are a 4 ohm load, 88db sensitivity (2.83v @1m), but known to require BIG power to sound best, such as with the big TAD amps at shows. I've been very pleased using AI Atsah monoblocks (700w @4 ohm) with them for a long time.
So far, I've found the LIO MOSFET amp (45w @4 ohm) drives the TADs comfortably to very satisfying levels, max about 45-50 on the attenuator in a large space. There is no sign of strain, though I haven't pushed it past that point as I didn't see the need. Oh, and for those wondering about the "noise floor" when LIO is configured as a full integrated, it's just not there. Incredibly quiet, even with a tube stage :thumb:
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My LIO is fully loaded now (Phono/RCL, Input Select, RVC, Tubestage, DSD DAC, MOSFET amp), driving a pair TAD Evolution 1's. They are a 4 ohm load, 88db sensitivity (2.83v @1m), but known to require BIG power to sound best, such as with the big TAD amps at shows. I've been very pleased using AI Atsah monoblocks (700w @4 ohm) with them for a long time.
So far, I've found the LIO MOSFET amp (45w @4 ohm) drives the TADs comfortably to very satisfying levels, max about 45-50 on the attenuator in a large space. There is no sign of strain, though I haven't pushed it past that point as I didn't see the need. Oh, and for those wondering about the "noise floor" when LIO is configured as a full integrated, it's just not there. Incredibly quiet, even with a tube stage :thumb:
Hi TomS,
Wow, that's quite the change in power - from 700w into 4-ohms to 45w into 4-ohms!
I was equally surprised and impressed when we tested LIO with a pair of Gamut RS9's - LIO MOSFET AMP really
made them sing as long as you didn't push it into clipping. But within its power range, it sounded glorious!
Thanks for sharing!
Vinnie
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My LIO is fully loaded now (Phono/RCL, Input Select, RVC, Tubestage, DSD DAC, MOSFET amp), driving a pair TAD Evolution 1's. They are a 4 ohm load, 88db sensitivity (2.83v @1m), but known to require BIG power to sound best, such as with the big TAD amps at shows. I've been very pleased using AI Atsah monoblocks (700w @4 ohm) with them for a long time.
So far, I've found the LIO MOSFET amp (45w @4 ohm) drives the TADs comfortably to very satisfying levels, max about 45-50 on the attenuator in a large space. There is no sign of strain, though I haven't pushed it past that point as I didn't see the need. Oh, and for those wondering about the "noise floor" when LIO is configured as a full integrated, it's just not there. Incredibly quiet, even with a tube stage :thumb:
Speaking of power I used to drive my Spendor FL 9's (3 way tri-wires; 8 ohms; 89 db sensitivity) with Parasound JC 1 monoblocks 400 watts into 8 ohms; fully class A for the first 25 watts. The Placette Passive Line Stage. I received my LIO on 8/7/15 current fitted with the AVC + Tube Stage, Amp, DAC, Phono etc.
While I have no doubt that the Parasound JC 1's would drive the Spendors to higher absolute volume levels, I don't believe, for my purposes that they have any advantage over the LIO in terms of usable volume levels (levels that don't threaten your hearing with constant listening). Having to turn the dial higher on the clock to get to your particular preference is meaningless to me.
But this is what is most striking to me at this earlier stage in my LIO experience. The LIO power supply has a clear and unmistakable advantage over the Parasounds (which I WAS quite fond of) in bass definition, control, and extension. This is simply amazing when you the Parasound Monoblock can output 400 watts into 8 ohms as opposed to LIO's 25 watts. I used 2 Rel Storms with the Parasound Monoblocks. While I will try them with the LIO because good subs offer more than simply more bass, I have yet to hook them up. In other words the ultra capacitor power supply obviously is a game changer.
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Hi yardbird4,
Thank you for your post, and you bring up a very good point here:
But this is what is most striking to me at this earlier stage in my LIO experience. The LIO power supply has a clear and unmistakable advantage over the Parasounds (which I WAS quite fond of) in bass definition, control, and extension. This is simply amazing when you the Parasound Monoblock can output 400 watts into 8 ohms as opposed to LIO's 25 watts.
Yes - having more max output power does NOT necessarily mean that the perceived quality of the bass is better than an
amplifier with a lower power rating. In other words, while an amplifier with higher rated output power should play a give pair of speakers to louder SPL's before clipping, its higher power does not necessarily give attributes such as better bass control, extension, definition, etc.
There are other factors at play, such as output impedance of the speaker output stage, and power supply characteristics (output impedance of the power supply), etc.
In other words the ultra capacitor power supply obviously is a game changer.
That was the goal - thank you 8) :thumb:
Cheers,
Vinnie
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I do hope to eventually do a short review but I had the privilege of listening to the LIO with a pair of Omega Alnico XRS. I will say that the pairing is fantastic - best I've heard in my room. I do note that though for me, I would still want a sub to extend frequency to 20s. In addition to the amp out, all the outputs are still active and tied to the volume control so you can connect a pair of subs and control the volume from the LIO. It is just a wonderful setup. Dollar for dollar, the LIO and Omegas both do seem to provide very high returns.
UL
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The Devore Fidelity Orangutan O/93 with the LIO (AVC + tube stage, MOSFET amp, DAC). It's early yet, but my impression so far is that the pairing is right up there with the very best I've heard in my living room.
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I have the devore 096 and want to hear the lio! Im looking forward to seeing vinnie and alexis @ rmaf this weekend
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The Devore Fidelity Orangutan O/93 with the LIO (AVC + tube stage, MOSFET amp, DAC). It's early yet, but my impression so far is that the pairing is right up there with the very best I've heard in my living room.
Hi wilsynet,
Those are some fantastic 1st impressions! :thumb: Thank you!
Hi Decur,
See you at RMAF!
I'll have the fully loaded LIO and the VR120, so you can hear the difference between the LIO MOSFET AMP module and
the VR120 driving the new Harbeth 40.2s 8)
Vinnie
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...
I'll have the fully loaded LIO and the VR120, so you can hear the difference between the LIO MOSFET AMP module and
the VR120 driving the new Harbeth 40.2s 8)
Vinnie
Ok, sign me up for that one :thumb:
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Using the KEF LS50 and getting ridiculously good music. The LS50 are probably the best $1,500 speaker out there to begin with, but getting them paired with the LIO turns them into super stars (and showed just how lacking my NAIM SuperUniti was).
Getting off the grid with LIO and finding the LS50s have not only made me happy musically for the first time in years, but have also saved me serious money to boot. If you are looking for a sure thing, the LIO/LS50 combo is a winner.
Tim
Current:
LIO Delux (AVC/Tubestage, DAC, Phono Stage, Mosfet Amp)
KEF LS50
Auralic Aries DS
Rega RP6 turntable
Anticable wiring
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My set up is almost identical to Tim's [LIO with AVC/Tubestage, Phonostage, Mosfet amp; Kef LS50s; Rega Rp6; Rega Apollo R; Darwin interconnects; and Transparent wire] and I second his opinion. It's a fantastic combination! Margot
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The first time connected my LIO to B&W 800 Diamond series 2. Can't believe this LIO with just 25w can drive these big speakers comfortably and more important with good quality sound.
I have read a lot of recommendations of pairing the LIO with Harbeth Super HL5+, however there is not agent that I can listen in Sydney, therefore I would like to ask whether I should buy this Harbeth? Are these going to outperform my B&W 800 Dismond ?
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The first time connected my LIO to B&W 800 Diamond series 2. Can't believe this LIO with just 25w can drive these big speakers comfortably and more important with good quality sound.
I have read a lot of recommendations of pairing the LIO with Harbeth Super HL5+, however there is not agent that I can listen in Sydney, therefore I would like to ask whether I should buy this Harbeth? Are these going to outperform my B&W 800 Dismond ?
Hi Mitch751,
Thanks for your post! Those speakers dip down to 3-ohm quite a bit in the 100hz - 1kHz range, so I'm glad LIO is pushing
them comfortably 8)
I wouldn't buy any speaker that you can listen to with some sort of trial period / return policy... just in case they don't work
in the context of your tastes, room, type of music, volume level you like to play, etc.
Aren't the 800 Diamond Series 2 in the >$20K price range? I'm definitely not one to say that a speaker's MSRP defines its
performance, but if this is true about their price, I would hope that they can outperform the SHL5+ (but perhaps not in the
areas that matter to you?).
Vinnie
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Hello Rossi
Thank you for the feedback, yes it costed more than. 20k which I upgraded from 800 signature that I purchased in 2001
I agree with you, see if I can have a trial before my purchase.
By no mean that I am not pleased with my 800 Diamond, however I believe perfect match of a combinations mean a lot
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138121)
today I took my Harbeth LS3/5 from my study room to sitting area.
Paired with LIO, and I must said this was the best sound ever for the speakers
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Hello Rossi
Thank you for the feedback, yes it costed more than. 20k which I upgraded from 800 signature that I purchased in 2001
I agree with you, see if I can have a trial before my purchase.
By no mean that I am not pleased with my 800 Diamond, however I believe perfect match of a combinations mean a lot
Hi Mitch751,
You might want to try a pair of Harbeth 40.1 or 40.2 in that room size - looks good! :eyebrows:
For the Harbeth P3ESR with LIO, I find they sound best in a near field arrangement (e.g. 4 or 5 feet
from the speaker to the ear, and 5 to 6 feet apart, and pull out from the room boundaries). They
do a great job 'disappearing' this way and image like champs.
Actually, I find all Harbeths sound great with near field listening. One of the reasons is because their driver
integration is among the best I've heard.
Thanks for sharing!
Vinnie
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Thank you Vinnie , ok I will have s try for 40.2
In the past, I tried to pair this LS3/5S with Krell SA300, Cello Oerformance 2. Jadas JA80, Audio research A150 and Luxmsn SQ38U, I am very sure LIO outperforms all these Amps.
This LIO+ Harbeth LS3/5s abd Roger AB1 make me really enjoying the music.
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I've been using my LIO (with Telefunken/AVC and MOSFET amp) to drive Audience 2+2 speakers. The purity that results from coupling full-range drivers (no crossover artifacts) to the LIO (clean, natural sound with no power supply hash) is addictive. I've made a few changes in the past several months that have progressively enhanced my listening enjoyment: 1) Upgraded the 2+2s with the new V2 drivers from Audience, 2) Upgraded cables from Au24 SE to SX, and 3) Changed from supporting the speakers on brass cones to using constrained layer damping between the speakers and stand platforms; the stands are heavily damped with lead shot/micro bearing fill in the lower portion of the pillars, and lead shot/sand in the upper portion; I sandwiched a layer of Herbie's Audio Lab dB Neutralizer between the speaker bottoms and the solid birdseye maple platforms (bonded in compression with removable silicone adhesive). Each change brought meaningful improvements and, taken as a whole, the pure, natural music they yield never fails to put a big ole' grin on my face.
As much as I love my system as is though, I don't think I'll be able to resist Vinnie's new SET option that's due out soon!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138865)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138866)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138867)
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Hi Timbana,
Thank you for sharing pics and details of your system! :thumb:
Each change brought meaningful improvements and, taken as a whole, the pure, natural music they yield never fails to put a big ole' grin on my face.
Glad to hear it! :thumb:
To all LIO owners,
This thread is inspiring me to start a new one called "Sharing your LIO Experience."
It will be the thread for LIO owners to share more in-depth feedback about items such as:
- What it’s like to live with your LIO (hopefully it has both simplified and enhanced your listening experience!)
- Is it all that you hoped for?
- What has been the biggest surprise?
- How often and how long do you listen to your music?
- What did your LIO replace?
- What does the rest of your system look like (especially what speakers are you driving with LIO)?
- Do you have favorite recordings that you like to show off your system with?
- Is there anything else that you wish to share about your Vinnie Rossi LIO experience?
I'll post it shortly - and am really looking forward to your feedback! 8)
Vinnie
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And here it is:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141626.0
To LIO customers who have already posted in this thread - feel free to copy/paste your posts (especially with those great pics!)
over to the LIO Experience Thread and add any more detail if you can.
Thanks again for sharing!
Vinnie
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Has anybody tried the Lio with Atc scam 11's or 19's? I've heard they're difficult to drive, but I like their transparency. Thanks,
don Ivey
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I recently purchased a pair of Decware HR-1 Speakers on Audiogon. These speakers are omni-directional. After getting these blended with my REL subwoofers, they are making spectacular music with the LIO DHT. They are detailed without being oppressive; great bass,midrange and treble. The soundstage is spacious, and separation of instrumentation is very realistic. Some live recordings sound seem to be a very good representation of the real event. You get the impression that you are hearing what the recording engineer put on the vinyl or digital ... good or bad.
After running various models of Spendor speakers for the past 35 years this is probably the end of their era.
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I recently purchased a pair of Decware HR-1 Speakers on Audiogon. These speakers are omni-directional. After getting these blended with my REL subwoofers, they are making spectacular music with the LIO DHT. They are detailed without being oppressive; great bass,midrange and treble. The soundstage is spacious, and separation of instrumentation is very realistic. Some live recordings sound seem to be a very good representation of the real event. You get the impression that you are hearing what the recording engineer put on the vinyl or digital ... good or bad.
After running various models of Spendor speakers for the past 35 years this is probably the end of their era.
Hi yardbird4,
Nice looking speaker, and an OMNI... I'd love to hear them one day. I don't think I've ever seen them at the
audio shows.
Thanks for posting! Glad they work well with your LIO :)
(http://www.decware.com/newsite/images/HR1.jpg)
Vinnie
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Hi yardbird4,
Nice looking speaker, and an OMNI... I'd love to hear them one day. I don't think I've ever seen them at the
audio shows.
Thanks for posting! Glad they work well with your LIO :)
(http://www.decware.com/newsite/images/HR1.jpg)
Vinnie
This is one of the direct to consumer manufacturers that apparently does not display at shows, which is unfortunate because I think they would review well. He holds his own annual sessions called the Decfest. I had been looking at them since they were first released in December 2011 hoping to find a pair for resale. Finding those for resale on Audiogon is like finding a LIO there ... locating a unicorn.
Maybe we can arrange for a session the next time you are attend the Capitol Audio Fest. I am about 30 minutes from that location. No pressure!
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Vinnie
This is one of the direct to consumer manufacturers that apparently does not display at shows, which is unfortunate because I think they would review well. He holds his own annual sessions called the Decfest. I had been looking at them since they were first released in December 2011 hoping to find a pair for resale. Finding those for resale on Audiogon is like finding a LIO there ... locating a unicorn.
Maybe we can arrange for a session the next time you are attend the Capitol Audio Fest. I am about 30 minutes from that location. No pressure!
Hi Yardbird4,
If I'm at CAF in 2017, I'll look you up since you are close by. Thanks for the invite! :beer:
Vinnie
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I bought a house earlier this year and part of the contract was to leave the whole house audio equipment. I meant the speakers switches/amps and ceiling/wall speakers. The seller thought so too + he left everything else including a pair a B&W 803s. They sing with the LIO!
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:lol: :lol: :lol: Thats great radarnyc! nice score.
Honestly, is there any speaker that will not sing with the LIO?
From B&W, Volti, Daedalus, Devore, Spacial, Harbeth and more... Some seriously good speakers that seem to be doing fantastic with the LIO --in any configuration.
I have personally heard the LIO with Daedalus, TAD and Devore. Loved it every time.