[DSR]

Follow up report on product called
 Revive in the UK  supplied by RATA
 or Russ Andrews Turntable Acces.

 As mention earlier all RCMs work very well
 but unless you have a suitable chemical to
remove the MRA you will still be second best.
 Apparantly after years of research since
 Arklone P/Solvent 113 was banned this guy has
 searched for a replacement and has come up
 with a detergent type product in a small quantity
with distilled water. Having now tried a litre on about
 two hundred Lps I can confirm it works.       .Lowers
 surface noise/vinyl roar ,   occasionly removing pops clicks and
 in my opinion is not quite as good as the Goldring Magic solvent
 and Lps should be cleaned with normal RCM chemicals after.
 ie  it doesnt seem to mix with IPA based cleaner.    
 Well worth while, hope someone can analyze this stuff and
 maybe a better insight into how/why.

[pretzel_logic]

I've been using the Disc Doctor method for some time now along with a shop vac.  Most of my original LP's sound like new and they were cleaned years ago using the Discwasher system.  The sound is much better using the doctor, very few pops and clicks.  

I use an old turntable, lay down enough fluid so that I have a about an 1/8 of an inch of liquid in front of the brush.  I go and forth 3 times around the entire LP and then run my finger over the brush in the sink, and then take off the excess fluid.  I then rinse the brush in distilled water and brush the LP back and forth 2 more times before vacuuming.  This gets the initial debris off the vinyl.  I then use the second brush to remove the remaining fluid.  I use a second small tub with clean distilled water and flood the LP one more time, again using the back and forth motion to deep clean the grooves.  One more time with the vacuum and a 5 minute air dry and it's as clean as it can be.    

Vacuuming is very important for getting all the grunge and debris out of the grooves.  I use a small shop vac with the long nozzle attachment notched length-wise and covered with velvet, works great.  The best thing you can do for your vinyl is give it a good thorough cleaning.

I also use Groove Glide and then just an Audioquest brush before each play.  Yes it can be a lot of work but well worth it years down the road, the LP's will still sound like new.

Brian

[DSR]

Hi Brian  I would respectfully suggest you re read the articles...
 Yes ordinary distilled water etc  will leave the vinyl like new.In the event of having tunout of Isopropyl Alcohol ....I do it.      Like New ?
What
You are saying that NEWequals a tiny amount of MOULD RELEASE AGENT present on the grooves and it is still there after cleaning...Its getting rid of the unwanted MRA that makes the record sound better.
 If you have the equipment try measuring the friction levels.Once you have used anything that thins out/removes MRA  you sure will know it.
Any your stylus WILL last a lot longer...Dave

[Romy the Cat]

I use an old turntable, lay down enough fluid so that I have a about an 1/8 of an inch of liquid in front of the brush.  I go and forth 3 times around the entire LP and then run my finger over the brush in the sink, and then take off the excess fluid.  I  ...

Brain,

Unfortunately I have to disappoint you: your LPs are near-terminally ruined. The Groove-Glide that you advocate is quite mean thing to use. Although it dose minimize the surface noise and have a number of other sort-of-"benefits" but it dose insert a common sonic signature-denominator into Tone of all records, all instrument, all voice and all music. Groove-Glide is a faulty product and should not be used. Regrettably, the Groove-Glide, if it was properly applied, could be very difficult to remove from the grooves, practically impossible without damaging of the records.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

[mcrespo71]

Although it takes a lot more work than the vacum cleaning alternatives (e.g., VPI or Nitty Gritty), the Disc Doctor's record brushes and cleaning solution by Duane Goldmann, who I believe has a PhD in chemistry, is the best I have used.  I found out about Goldman's brushes and cleaning fluid through the Phonogram list, which has some of the most rabid and knowledgeable vinyl fans anywhere on the internet (e.g., Richard Foster, Michael Fremer, Art Dudley, Stan Ricker, and Steve Hoffman all post there).  I already owned a Nitty Gritty machine, which I felt was pretty competitive with the VPI and much more compact for my NYC apartment, and I think the Disc Doctor's stuff is a clear step up from both.  That said, it really is far more time consuming and I usually don't use them unless the album is really, really dirty or just a super rare pressing.  But if you want the best, there is nothing better I have tried (e.g., VPI's, Nitty Gritty, Dischwasher Cheap stuff, Last Cleaners, etc.).  It can take a record cleaned on a vacum machine and bring out even more clarity.  There was a Listener magazine article on different cleaning regimens that was very informative a few years back- may want to check that out if you can find it.  Best of luck.

[JoshK]

Romy,

What do you propose as an efficient and non-detremental cleaning method?

[Romy the Cat]

Romy,

What do you propose as an efficient and non-detremental cleaning method?

Just a plane-vanilla vacuum cleaning machine with a standard vacuum machine cleaning liquid. If a record too dirty then you might let excessive amount of the cleaning liquid sit on the records, soak and then repeat the wash cycle. There is no other why to clean the records securely. Although, some time when you have chemical dirt you may introduce an alternative fluid with more alcohol in it…

The distilled water soaking, deep scrubbing, the special chemicals and post-wash finishing are quite bogus methods and have mostly to do with somebody’s initiation to spent time of “doing smoothing”. A commercial antistatic blower that puffs air all over the TT helps as well…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

[naturephoto1]

Hi All,

Romy, are you suggesting that Disc Doctor Record Cleaner is detrimental to our vinyl, or that Groove-Glide is the culprit?  Also do you feel that the record cleaning products such as Nitty Gritty's Pure 2 is sufficient with my Nitty Gritty Record Cleaning machine?

Thanks very much.

Rich Nelridge

[Romy the Cat]

Hi All,

Romy, are you suggesting that Disc Doctor Record Cleaner is detrimental to our vinyl, or that Groove-Glide is the culprit?  Also do you feel that the record cleaning products such as Nitty Gritty's Pure 2 is sufficient with my Nitty Gritty Record Cleaning machine?

Thanks very much.

Rich Nelridge

Nitty Gritty's Pure 2 is a wonderful and absolutely SUFFICIENT cleaner. If a record can not be cleaned by a run in a vacuum machine and washed by a cycle with (for instance) Pure 2 then the record should be trashed or be played with a dedicated “trash” cartridge.

Let make no wet fantasies: the records could be terminally dead due to a bad exposure, dirt and inaccurate use. The records that might be “saved” by a regular vacuum washing are fine. The records that do not sound good without any “intensive cleaning reanimation” will not sound well no mater what you do. Just trash the “dead” record and buy another one. Really, the amount of time you will be spending to perform a magic on a “kinky-dirty” record could be spent for masking more money and buying a new record from any “overpriced” dealer.

As far as nay “record aftershaves” or any other manifestation of “wet playing”… they must not be used.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

[Brad V]

I was cleaning my records with a VPI HW16.5 and Nitty Gritty Cleaner. I wa scrubbing with the brush that came with the VPI. I was getting fairly good results. I kept on hearing people raving about the Disc Doctor brush and cleaner. I broke down and bought the stuff and within the last 2 weeks, utilized his recommended method.

The results are staggering. It's like a veil has been lifted. Pops and Clicks has been greatly reduced and in  good percentage of records, they went away. I believe the brushes have a lot to do with the results, as they get down deep in the grooves, where the VPI brushes weren't.

Have a great day,

Brad

[Tonto Yoder]

The Russ Andrews cleaning system is--
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GBP&pf_id=5066&customer_id=PAA2859102303470RGYSEHNCDNRLSEVR

[Tone Deaf]

Has anyone tried anything like Last's record preservative treatment?  The sceptic in me says you shouldn't add anything alien to a record, but if it does what it says on the bottle I think I may give it a go.

While I find the quality of new vinyl is heaps better than it used to be in my record-buying heyday (late 70's & 80's) I suspect the plastic used may be softer.  My new records seem to pick up wear & tear much more easily than mint second-hand ones I've bought.  Perhaps a chemist can tell me if vinyl hardens with age?

[DARTH AUDIO]

Hantra, I've been cleaning records for a lot of years. 98% of the time I play vinyl. I spend a lot of time at used record stores. A lot of hidden jems there. I just picked up a "PERFECT" copy od Neil Young's "After the gold rush".  Get a VPI 16.5 record cleaner. About $450. I have used the following solutions: VPI, Nitty Gritty, Record Research record wash and Buggtussel "Vinyl Zyme". The best is the Buggtussel Vinyl Zyme.
http://www.buggtussel.com/vinylzyme.asp

If you have a no cost budget. Here is the ultimate record cleaner. $1800
http://www.smartdev.com/loricraft.html

[mannye]

I use the Spin Clean.  I can't speak to the more expensive systems discussed because I've never tried them, but for under 50 dollars, the Spin Clean takes plenty of crap off the record, does both sides at once, and I like that the LP is completely immersed in the cleaning solution.

I've had records bought from night clubs that had tons of nicotene (or whatever is in the brown residue from cigarrettes) and the Spin Clean makes those records look and sound new.

I'm sure the vacuum systems are really cool and do a great job, but unless I graduate to a TT worth umpteen thousands with all the corresponding dodads like mega buck carts, amps, etc, I'll stay with the Spin Clean and spend my cash on software!

System: MMF-5, Hagerman Bugle/Little Rat, Bottlehead Foreplay and Paramour, Ed's Horns.

[Brian Clark]

Some years ago, Eric Stubbs - writing in the long-defunct UK DIY magazine "Audio Conversions" - recommended the use of NAPTHA (e.g. Zippo lighter fluid) for removing mold release agent. He used it for years and was unable to detect any adverse results at all. I have found no reference to this use of the solvent since.
Anybody tried it?
Input from chemists?

Brian.

[fredj]

Pretty basic but effective:  Disc Doctor system for deep cleaning, store in new anti-static poly or poly lined paper sleeves,  Nagaoka CL-152 before play, and if the humidity mandates an Audioquest anti-static brush once over.

Bob A

Here's a link to a Japanese site showing the Nagaoka CL-152.  
http://www.otaiweb.com/player/acce.html
I've seen these go for between $80 and $115 on eBay.....Gesh -:(

The site would likely be helpful if one read;s Japanese I believe these
now run about $35 to $40 on EBay now.
Fred J

[coffeedj]

I've been using the VPI 16.5 for about one year now and am sold.  On the really dirty records two passes may be needed, but I've found that a good technique is key.  The main issue is the vacuum, not the liquid--buy one of the standard ones in large quanity.  For 78's make your own with distilled water and dish detergent--2 drops per quart.

My techique is to use the carbon fiber pad brush (not the stock one!) and soak the pad with about 10-12 drops of cleaning fluid first.  I run my finger over the pad to spread the liquid out uniformly.  Start the VPI and gently scrup the record with a back and forth motion in the grooves for about two rotations.  Then turn on the vacuum and continue scrubbing for one revolution.  Quit scubbing and let the vacuum go one more revolution.

I found that if the brush wasn't wetted first it could cause some light surface scratching.  This technique has really made my records come alive.

[fredj]

Has anyone tried anything like Last's record preservative treatment?  

  Last is reputed to be what it claims to be by a number of highly experienced credible vinylophiles, apparently what it does isn't a coating, but rather an alteration of the surface molecular structure (hardening)
OTOH if one is scrupulous about properly wet cleaning their vinyl initially and then place the LP in a quality poly lined sleeve and thereafter always use an Audioquest brush for every side before and after, cleans his stylus regularly and replaces it before it's seriously worn etc, and NEVER replays a side repeatedly without allowing 2 to 24 hour for the vinyls memory to recover it's original
dimensions, your vinyl will outlast you, the LAST just add's a secondary or additional protective safety factor.


"While I find the quality of new vinyl is heaps better than it used to be in my record-buying heyday (late 70's & 80's) I suspect the plastic used may be softer.  My new records seem to pick up wear & tear much more easily than mint second-hand ones I've bought.  Perhaps a chemist can tell me if vinyl hardens with age?

I'm not a chemist, but I think you should make certain that your cartridge is aligned properly, your stylus is in good condition a stylus can crack or shatter rather easily if it lights on a hard surface (the plith, top plate etc)
every analog person should have a 20 x to 30 x magnifier for occaisonal
superficial examination for damage, for wear there are some expert shop owners with many years of experience and a high quality 80x to 200x binocular microscope for wear, some claim it's near impossible unless you've previously examined the specific styli periodically, so lots of experts just replace their styli based on hours of operation 300 to 1500
generally the more contact area the longer the life so MR fine line and Shibata etc. have the longest lifespan elliptical is less and conical wears the fastest some manufacturers put less $ into polishing and shaping the diamond (Sumiko BP, BPS is an example) and obviously the cleaner
the LP's and stylus the longer the life quite dramatically, not replacing styli regularly is the proverbial dollar chasing a dime as your LP collections value is significantly greater than any stylus and is attrited
dramatically with certain types of damage or wear (like a lathe)
I wrote an extensive vinyl care article on the Lenco heaven site
http://www.mcqart.com/lenco/
Since returning to analog after 10 years and becoming obsessed with
aquiring used vinyl and learning to return it to a dead quiet backround and the original dynamics has really added a great deal of respect for the amazing durability of vinyl,  properly cared for your records will sound as good 20 or 30 years from now as they do today and will easily outlast your CD's For almost 40 years I assumed vinyl is soft and a really arcane technology at best and the records are attrited steadily just from being played, which suprizingly I found is anything but the truth.
Regards Fred

[fredj]

One reason that I am not a vinyl guy is the way an audiophile in college played his albums.

He used some kind of Kodak photgraphic fluid to wet the entire record and rested a 3 o4 4 inch brush across all the tracks...not for cleaning, but for playing each and every LP. After the LP played he set it against the wall to dry. The concept was that this way the LPs never even got dirty. The solution was supposedly practically residue-free (I am sure ther is always some residue) and did not harm the vinyl. I s ...

   I think I must have missed something here ? Why would rooming with
an egocentric kook, keep you from being a vinyl fan ?
It would be analogous to saying I don't like cars because my friend used to put lapping compound and sand in his crankcase oil.
A curious fred ?

[fredj]

Hiya;

The VPI is a manual machine so you have to apply the fluid and clean the record by hand and then use the vacuum to suck the debris off.

I'm lazy so use a Nitty Gritty which is fully automatic.
Put the record on, pump some fluid, scrub, vacuum.

A record is cleaned and ready to play in under 5 minutes.

Both machines are very effective.

And NOISY.

Only real vinyl fanatics do a hand clean then a machine clean and fuss about with pre-washes, post wash rinses and other laborious rituals.
 ...

  I agree as far as the hand preclean etc.
The best RCM's are the Loricraft and the Kieth Monks they use industrial
vacuum pumps instead of vacuums they are extremely effective, very quiet and don't overheat like the Nitty gritty or VPI can short of investing $1800+ in a serious RCM I think it's very hard to beat a DIY RCM
which is simply an old thrift store turntable and a cheap small plastic
wet dry vacuum.
I used every manner of commercial and DIY RC solvent for 35 years
as well as every manner of scrubbing types of brushes etc.
I now use RRL Deep and RRL vinyl wash and a (no scrub) carbon fiber brush like an audioquest or knock off version
and my present record cleaning techniquenow  is by far the easiest fastest and by far most effective
Regards Fredj