What cable where?

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dBe

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What cable where?
« on: 24 Nov 2014, 05:59 pm »
I got a PM from an Uber owner today and he asked me a question that I get occasionally.

"Which is MORE important, the power cable feeding INTO the uber, or the power cable feeding out of the Uber?"

Here is my position on how to choose your cables.  The power cable supplying the Uber will have a global effect on the entire system.  If you have a system that is a tad on the analytical side of the equation another component (yes, for the umpteenth - time a power cable is a component of the system) on the analytical side might not be a stellar idea. 

Whether we like to admit it power cables effect the sound.  An acquaintance of mine once said that some power cables just sound constipated.  To this day I can't think of a better term.  When we assess our systems and find that we are in the final voicing of the system what power cables becomes a very important, if not essential choice.

DANGER!!! You are entering the nebulous zone of my perception here:  YMMV and no flames, please.  Just read it an laugh to yourself if you will.

Cables fall into several categories but the generalities of standard and premium cables are these.  Standard cables are tough pitch copper, insulated with PVC ( a crappy, but cheap and durable dielectric) and wrapped in more plastic or rubber with molded ends.  Premium cables are generally much higher purity copper, insulated with much better, low constant dielectrics and many have air as part of the dielectric or wrap.  This all is terminated with premium connectors that cost too much money, but end up being very important to the overall sound of the cable.

My bottom line is that with premium cables that are properly designed there is just more.  More of whatever you want.  Some cables are fuller, rounder and perhaps darker than the other extreme which is very detailed, fast and analytical.  There are some cables ... the neutral ones... that just give a little more of everything, especially space around instruments.  All of us moronic(? - your call) cable designers are trying to find the "grail" and find a lot of other things along the way that contributes to most designer's cables having a familial sound.

Where this rant is headed is that the cable that goes to each component from the Uber (or wall) needs to address the strengths and weaknesses of that piece of gear.  If the DAC is too analytical sounding, put a mellower cable on it or vice versa.

When choosing the cable for the Uber assess the system as a whole.  I sit overall a tad too fat sounding, put a revealing cable on the Uber.  Too bright - a rounder sounding cable.  In a systemic approach we have to look at power as what we've got and it's getting crappier everyday.  We have to start at the wall with properly chosen filters (cables) and work our way to the gear.  It is faster and a lot cheaper than trying to work backwards from the gear to the wall.


Early B.

Re: What cable where?
« Reply #1 on: 24 Nov 2014, 08:33 pm »
I generally agree. "Power management" (cords, cables, and conditioners) can transform your system. Lots of experimentation is required. 


mresseguie

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #2 on: 24 Nov 2014, 09:41 pm »
Psst, Dave. This is a great time to make a plug for your great power cables.  :thumb:


dBe

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #3 on: 24 Nov 2014, 10:15 pm »
Psst, Dave. This is a great time to make a plug for your great power cables.  :thumb:
OK, you're right.

This is a plug for my great power cables!

  :D

paul79

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Nov 2014, 10:18 pm »
LOL!
Yes, the Mongo II (the one I have experience with) is a direct talker. Ultra clear, fast, absolutely neutral. LOVE IT!

Triode Pete

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #5 on: 25 Nov 2014, 02:43 pm »
I got a PM from an Uber owner today and he asked me a question that I get occasionally.

"Which is MORE important, the power cable feeding INTO the uber, or the power cable feeding out of the Uber?"

Here is my position on how to choose your cables.  The power cable supplying the Uber will have a global effect on the entire system.  If you have a system that is a tad on the analytical side of the equation another component (yes, for the umpteenth - time a power cable is a component of the system) on the analytical side might not be a stellar idea. 

Whether we like to admit it power cables effect the sound.  An acquaintance of mine once said that some power cables just sound constipated.  To this day I can't think of a better term.  When we assess our systems and find that we are in the final voicing of the system what power cables becomes a very important, if not essential choice.

DANGER!!! You are entering the nebulous zone of my perception here:  YMMV and no flames, please.  Just read it an laugh to yourself if you will.

Cables fall into several categories but the generalities of standard and premium cables are these.  Standard cables are tough pitch copper, insulated with PVC ( a crappy, but cheap and durable dielectric) and wrapped in more plastic or rubber with molded ends.  Premium cables are generally much higher purity copper, insulated with much better, low constant dielectrics and many have air as part of the dielectric or wrap.  This all is terminated with premium connectors that cost too much money, but end up being very important to the overall sound of the cable.

My bottom line is that with premium cables that are properly designed there is just more.  More of whatever you want.  Some cables are fuller, rounder and perhaps darker than the other extreme which is very detailed, fast and analytical.  There are some cables ... the neutral ones... that just give a little more of everything, especially space around instruments.  All of us moronic(? - your call) cable designers are trying to find the "grail" and find a lot of other things along the way that contributes to most designer's cables having a familial sound.

Where this rant is headed is that the cable that goes to each component from the Uber (or wall) needs to address the strengths and weaknesses of that piece of gear.  If the DAC is too analytical sounding, put a mellower cable on it or vice versa.

When choosing the cable for the Uber assess the system as a whole.  I sit overall a tad too fat sounding, put a revealing cable on the Uber.  Too bright - a rounder sounding cable.  In a systemic approach we have to look at power as what we've got and it's getting crappier everyday.  We have to start at the wall with properly chosen filters (cables) and work our way to the gear.  It is faster and a lot cheaper than trying to work backwards from the gear to the wall.

Good topic, Dave! I ran into the exact same scenario yesterday!

I recently picked a new amp from Gary Dews at BorderPatrol. When placed into my system, it appeared to be a bit overemphasized in the "treble" department. Some may like this very detailed sound but not me... I realized I had one of my prototype power cables feeding the Uber which had rhodium plating over OCC solid silver IeGo connectors. Yesterday, I switched cables to one that had 24kt gold plating over OCC solid copper IeGO connectors. What a difference one cable makes feeding the Uber!!! Much smoother & warmer, without treble over-emphasis...

This was not a subtle difference but a huge change... it would be IOTTCO!!!


IOTTCO = Intuitively Obvious To The Casual Observer...

My observed $0.02,
Pete

dflee

Re: What cable where?
« Reply #6 on: 4 Dec 2014, 12:28 am »
Dave and Pete:
Both of you are a prime examples as to why it is so important to the likes of me
who unfortunately can't play with samples themselves. You both have experience (and
equipment) far beyond the average and are willing to interact with informative solutions.
Thanks

Don

dBe

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #7 on: 4 Dec 2014, 06:32 pm »
Dave and Pete:
Both of you are a prime examples as to why it is so important to the likes of me
who unfortunately can't play with samples themselves. You both have experience (and
equipment) far beyond the average and are willing to interact with informative solutions.
Thanks

Don
Thanks, Don.  We try.

One of my favorite sayings is:  An expert is someone that has made 10,000 errors in one particular field of endeavor. Pete and I are cut-n-try guys.  We learned long ago when it comes to audio simplistic LCR measurements just don't cut it.  Eddy currents, dielectric absorption, surface finish of the wire, magnetic fields, electrostatic fields, materials alloys, impurities and a lot more is very, very important when it comes to"how" a cable will sound and do its' job.

Over the years I (we) have invested thousands of dollars and a huge amount of time in figuring out what, why and how.  I should build a shrine dedicated to my intellectual and monetary investment that has gotten me here.  Then again I don't want to be reminded of the blind alleys, stupidity and ignorance involved over the past 50 years or so.

As an ethical businessman I (we) believe that helping others to avoid all of that BS is a good thing and saves a ton of $$$ for our customers and friends.

paul79

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #8 on: 4 Dec 2014, 06:53 pm »
Yep. No BS. 90% of my system is from cottage industries. Doesn't take much to see who the no BS guys are, that cut to the chase and do what is important and actually matters for the sound. You do this Dave (Pete), and help us regular ol boys save a ton of money, and get world class results at the same time.

Keep it old school guys!  8)

dBe

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #9 on: 5 Dec 2014, 04:46 am »
Yep. No BS. 90% of my system is from cottage industries. Doesn't take much to see who the no BS guys are, that cut to the chase and do what is important and actually matters for the sound. You do this Dave (Pete), and help us regular ol boys save a ton of money, and get world class results at the same time.

Keep it old school guys!  8)
There is a great wealth of terrific equipment and experienced people available here at AC and on similar sites.  Direct to customer sales always give the best bang for the buck.  Not only that, but knowing "the guy(s)" is always a good thing.
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2014, 04:21 am by dBe »

mresseguie

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #10 on: 5 Dec 2014, 05:58 am »
Group hug, guys!  :wink:

Okay, not really. However, I couldn't agree more with what is being said above. I have have benefited hugely from my discovering AC. I've got much better equipment, met new friends, attended my fist audio fest (Axpona '14), and saved BIG $$$. [And, yes, I spent more money on audio equipment this year than I expected, and I'm glad I did.] Oh, and my music sounds one helluva lot better now.

My hat's off to you!  :thumb:

paul79

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #11 on: 5 Dec 2014, 07:38 am »
Um.... I don't know you well enough for that kind of interaction   :P

mresseguie

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #12 on: 5 Dec 2014, 08:32 am »
Paul,

Just wear sunglasses and you'll be protected.  8)
« Last Edit: 5 Dec 2014, 03:45 pm by mresseguie »

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #13 on: 5 Dec 2014, 02:35 pm »
This all is terminated with premium connectors that cost too much money, but end up being very important to the overall sound of the cable.

Psst, Dave. This is a great time to make a plug for your great power cables.

Dave, perhaps earlier you took this recommendation out of context.  I cut some post quotes down to clarify the point, I think.





( :wink: :wave: :whip: :jester:)

mresseguie

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #14 on: 5 Dec 2014, 03:47 pm »
I haven't had my coffee yet, so it took until the second reading to 'get it'.

 :rotflmao:

paul79

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #15 on: 5 Dec 2014, 05:01 pm »
 :green: PI Audio Uber Plug!

dBe

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #16 on: 6 Dec 2014, 04:25 am »
You guys crack me up and I blessed to know you.

Mike, Jonathon is a master of wry humor.  Coffee is an absolute necessity  :lol:

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: What cable where?
« Reply #17 on: 7 Dec 2014, 04:08 am »
 :lol:  Glad to make y'all's day!

Hugs to you and the family this holiday season, Dave!  I'm sorry I didn't get to meet up this year.  Things have truly been interesting so far in the classical Chinese sense of the word.  No wear near the tragedy of some, but challenging to say the least.  Next year can only look up from here, right?  Just a little longer and I can come up for air. :)