EL34 tubes needed for VTL MB225 Amps

sfig · « **on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:23 pm »

I need to replace the EL34 tubes in my two VTL MB225 amps. I'll need a total of 16 of them so price is an important factor. Mullard and Tungsol reissues are candidates so I'd like to know if anyone has experience in this application vs. the Svetlana Winged C's. I have read very positive comments about the Gold Lions and the Treasure 6CA7Z but am having major sticker shock since I need 16 tubes. Thank you for your help.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:54 pm »

Understood on the sticker shock, but the Treasures have been awesome in every amp I've tried them in so far...

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Oct 2010, 11:46 pm »

I am running Golden Lions now, but keep a quad of Winged "C"s as backup. They are very dymanic and full in my Dynaco Mark IV's. The Lions add solidity and a bit more control. Keep in mind the Lion's are KT77's. Which brings up around to the JJ's,

ahh the choices.

Hope I was of some help.

Tyson · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 02:02 am »

Black Treasure KT88's are the best tube you'll find. A somewhat distant second is the Penta KT88SC for a lot less. The Gold Lion KT88s are a bit below each of these, with the GL KT77's and the SED Winged C EL34's bringing up the middle of the pack. Electroharmonix are at the bottom.

dangerbird · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 05:41 am »

I had to dump the Mullard re-issues,,sorry,,just did not do it for me. I ended up with some of the older Tesla's that I purchased frm Mike Sanders @ Quicksilver--- good luck.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 12:12 pm »

Chinese tubes (Sino & Shuguang - these are rebranded as Penta, Ruby, etc) are pretty good these days and are usually the cheapest of the bunch. If you want pretty good sound for cheap they are the way to go!

Gold Lions rock! But I do understand your sticker shock.

iGrant · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 02:39 pm »

sfig, when running many tubes we suggest going with the grade B Treasures to keep costs down, you will get all the sonic benefits, but maybe 20% less life. Typically the plate currents are lower, but we still work hard to get a match for the grade B. When running two (and even 4 per channel) then we do suggest going with the grade A's. I suggest you contact Rachel thru our site and ask her for pricing, you may be pleasantly surprised. It will take a while to get 16 decently matched though.

Also the standard Shuguang KT88-98 that has been re-branded by many when tested and matched properly is a tube that rates in the top 5 in my books, although no where near the sonics of the Treasures.

Cheers,
Ian

sfig · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Nov 2010, 03:51 pm »

I was advised yesterday by VTL that I need to stick to EL34 or 6CA7 tubes. They told me not to use the KT88, KT66 or even the KT77 tubes in my MB225 amps. Only the EL34 or 6CA7 tubes. I was surprised in particular by the verdict on the KT77.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Nov 2010, 04:56 pm »

Eurotubes.com has JJ quads of EL34 for a little over $50/quad.

Tubedepot.com has JJ pairs on sale for $25 and Sovteks for $22/pair. These are the cheapest I've seen.

As for the Mullard reissues, I have a couple of quads of these and I can't say that they are any better in my amps than the Winged C. I've also had a Mullard fail prematurely on me. The Winged Cs have a heftier bass response which might suit your system or make it tubby sounding. The JJ's are pretty good sounding. I've never had a Sovtek power tube, but their preamp tubes are pretty good these days. I've heard bad things about EH's power tube reliability though I haven't had a problem personally. Never tried the Tung-Sol reissues. Sorry.

Keep us informed!

Pez · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Nov 2010, 07:15 pm »

I'm surprised they would say no to KT66s. They are pretty much electrically equivalent to el34s. Because I would say the Gold lion KT66s are the best non-uber expensive tube I can think of. Otherwise do as others have said, just get the Treasures and save all the money you would otherwise waste on tube rolling all the other suggestions, including mine.

BTW I'm not at all surprised that they said no to KT77s. I have had 2 el34/kt88 amps that the kt77s would not work in.

rah50 · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 05:45 pm »

My VTL MB-225's have 6550's. Did VTL say why you should only use EL34's?

drrsutliff · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 06:48 pm »

I do not have your amps, but I have tried a variety of new issue EL34s. I have tried the Tung Sol EL34B, Mullard EL34 Reissues, Svetlana (post 2003) and the Gold Lion KT77s. All of these tubes have an area they excell at and the KT77s are very solid in the bass compared to most of the EL34s. That being said I have always gone back to the SED Winged "C" tubes. In my system they have a much better and more open soundstage. They present the music with more ambiance and responded well to variation of the bias (32.5mA per tube works well). I have not tried the Treasure tubes yet but I do hear only positive reviews for them. My System is: Lector 0.6t CDP or Origin Live TT with a Sumiko BlackBird to VAC Standard LE to Shanling SP80s to Aurum Cantus Leisure3 SE.

Gopher · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 11:20 pm »

I just ordered some tubes from goodcomponent.com which shipped yesterday. Cheapest black treasure tube prices I've seen but I can't speak for their service.

Check out grant too--as implied above, with an order that big they may be able to alleviate some of the sticker shock.

bregez · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 12:34 am »

I don't want to advertise for anyone, but the tube store has a nice comparison (in a guitar amp) on a few different types of EL34 compatible tubes.
http://thetubestore.com/el34review.html
Personally, I have been using Electro Harmonix EL34 skinny bottles in my Dynaco amps for a couple years with good results. For the money (around 60 USD a quad) they can't be beat. I also have tried the EH 6CA7 which sounded great in the same amps. These are the same tubes that Mr. Van Alstine ships in his AVA Ultravalve Amplifier.

AnalogTubes · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 04:20 am »

For the EL34 I'd suggest the Winged C SED EL34s. We sell a lot of them and get great feedback on them. Very clean sounding and very good frequency response.

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 06:23 am »

Quote from: Gopher on 3 Dec 2010, 11:20 pm

I just ordered some tubes from goodcomponent.com which shipped yesterday. Cheapest black treasure tube prices I've seen but I can't speak for their service.

Check out grant too--as implied above, with an order that big they may be able to alleviate some of the sticker shock.

You would not regret the Treasure Series, get the best and live happily ever after

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 12:07 pm »

Quote from: Gopher on 3 Dec 2010, 11:20 pm

I just ordered some tubes from goodcomponent.com which shipped yesterday. Cheapest black treasure tube prices I've seen but I can't speak for their service.

Check out grant too--as implied above, with an order that big they may be able to alleviate some of the sticker shock.

WOW! Those Black Treasure prices are nearly equal to the Genalex prices. I can almost afford them! Who needs a luxury box?

iGrant · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 02:32 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 4 Dec 2010, 12:07 pm

WOW! Those Black Treasure prices are nearly equal to the Genalex prices. I can almost afford them! Who needs a luxury box?

UPS, FEDEX, USPS, Canada Post for starters

Cheers,
Ian

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 06:14 pm »

TOUCHE!

sfig · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 07:07 pm »

I'm going with two quads of the Winged Cs from 1999. Was able to find them since my original post.
Yes VTL told me only el34 and 6ca7. I wasn't sure at the time though that they spent a lot of time considering what I had asked them. I'm a little reluctant to say that here but that's how I felt...rushed for a decision to retube with them rather than discussing which tubes other tubes were recommended for their amps. I'd still like to try Gold Lion Kt77s. They were recommended by a well respected tube seller even though not by VTL. Would the amps be potentially damaged by the Kt77s if they're in fact not right or would the result be non-function or premature tube death or some combo of all the above?