Who's using OR used Single Ended amplification?

Niteshade · « **on:** 20 Jun 2010, 12:13 am »

So- Who's using Single Ended amplifiers or through with them?

What do you have to say about them relative to other amps you've tried?

Had one, didn't like it? What did you switch to ot did you go to a higher powered design?

Did you go from high to low power?

Advice on speakers for your wattage class?

wywires · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 12:32 am »

I've been using single ended amps for some time time now. I really enjoy the sweetness in the treble region and scary realism of voices. I currently use a pair of Cary 300se Signature amps with Emission Labs 300BXLS power tubes. I've also owned Cary 2A3 monos and they were excellent also, but I felt I need more oomph. I've owned solid state (BAT, Krell, Threshold, Adcom) over the years but I will never give up SETs. My speakers are Reference 3A MM deCapo-i's with sensitivity of 92dB and a stable 6+ ohm load. The 300B is more than enough power and control even in my 16X24 room. I also have a Bryston 3B as an alternative for cable testing. Nice solid state amp but not in the same league as the 300se, IMO. I have an EAR 890 on order, again for cable testing purposes (I have high hopes for the 890).

Pez · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 01:15 am »

I have been on the tube train for well over a decade now, but ironically only got into SET very recently. Around 9 months ago I built my first SET amp and very quickly there after built another one. I am using them for my mids and highs and have a solid state amp for everything below 500hz.

The things love about SET are as follows:
Best soundstage and imaging I have ever heard by a very large margin. SET throws an incredibly life like and scary stage. The space in the recording studio becomes way more apparent and of course all of this leads to a very convincing performance.

The sweetest treble I have heard. Sort of the antithesis of a really bad solid state amp is what most people would call "rolled off" Well with SET neither is the case. I find that the treble is sweet or striking dependent on the material at hand.

Mids are to die for with a real sense of weight and soul that most amps just fail miserably at. This is also where a lot of the intimacy happens.

But really overall there is really something 'magical' that is indescribable with SET. Maybe it's all of these traits manifest together, or maybe it's something else that defies my ability to define, but there it is and I love it.

BobRex · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 01:58 am »

I've been using SET for 10 years now, and tubes for over 25. I've described why in other posts.

wywires · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 02:10 am »

I agree completely with PEZ. Many refuse to believe that a couple of measley watts can bring such magic to the music experience, Michael Fremer for example. I also believe that SET watts are much bigger than solid state or push pull watts. You need not only restrict your speaker search to super sensitive and efficient speakers. 10 good SET watts can drive any reasonably well designed speaker with greater than 89dB sensitivity as long as the resitive load is not too low anywhere in the frequency spectrum. Forget Martin Logans and Wilsons though, IMO

Mariusz · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 02:39 am »

Quote from: wywires on 20 Jun 2010, 02:10 am

I agree completely with PEZ. Many refuse to believe that a couple of measley watts can bring such magic to the music experience, Michael Fremer for example. I also believe that SET watts are much bigger than solid state or push pull watts. You need not only restrict your speaker search to super sensitive and efficient speakers. 10 good SET watts can drive any reasonably well designed speaker with greater than 89dB sensitivity as long as the resitive load is not too low anywhere in the frequency spectrum. Forget Martin Logans and Wilsons though, IMO

12 years with various Martin Logans and later Vandersteen Quatro was the reason to stay away from SET amps. All that has changed with my latest venture into single driver/horn/OB design. (mostly DIY)
But I have to say, not all SET amplifiers did it for me.
There were few hit and misses before I settle on the amps that became my audio nirvana.

But so far, I haven't heard more musically emotional amplifier.
It does everything right in the way that is hard to describe.
My previous 5K monoblocks (+ 1.5K in mods and tubes) which I thought were pretty good, weren't even in the same league.
In comparison, my el34 pp monos sounded slow, muddy and restricted.
Middle range was simply stunning on SET amps. I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 03:06 am »

I had changed emails with a SET fan that was in love with his self made 45 monos amps, with plenty of 1,5Watts. I was shocked for too little power and $150dollars for each 45. He was driving a OB 12inches two way coaxial.
For me, I would like a GM70 SET around 30W with a Klipsch RF-83(8ohms/100dB factory specified).

Regards, Gustavo

SET Man · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 03:43 am »

Hey!

Did anyone said Single Ended amp?

Well, here I go again. I have been with these beauties the past 10.5 years....

A pair of Welborne Labs "Apollo" with KR Audio 842VHD triode tube and NOS GE 6EA7/6EM7. With 18 watts of pure SET power. I bought them as a kit back in 1999. As for speaker a home brewed TQWT with Fostex drivers and horned tweeter as super tweeter. I built them back in mid 2002.

I started out with SS amp. I remembered when I got in to audio I was dreaming of owning high power SS amp and big speaker with many drivers. I started out with 60w/ch SS to 250w/ch SS than I when to 100w/ch tube. But personally I've always been in to the idea of "Simplicity" and it was the last '90s when SET start to return into the audio world. And that when I got interested in SET. So, one day I took a leap of faith and got my current amps. Over 10 years later I think I've made the right decision.

So why SET? Well, it just sound better too me. It got that feel of pure, natural decay and completeness to the sound, especially with Single Driver speaker. I don't know most SS amps now sound natural to me now.

Of course SET is not for everyone. The most important part of SET is having a right speaker for them. High efficiency and flat impedance are a must especially with lower power SET. Oh! There is one interesting thing about high efficiency speaker. They tend to have a much faster respond and more a live than lower efficiency one especially at lower level playback. Or maybe that is just me.

Take care,
Buddy

Mariusz · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 03:52 am »

My SET is PSE around 16wpc 300b.
That 16 watts can drive almost anything over 89db in my smallish room.
I was lucky to negotiate there's reunion with preamp which was design with these amps in mind by the same builder.
There is another 5wpc amp in my stable which sounds great but not holly **** awesome. Nevertheless, great amp if your speakers are really efficient (94wpc and above).

P.S ( FULLRANGEMAN -regarding 12"OB)
300b PSE amp drives my horns and Audio Nirvan 15" drivers in OB like no other.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 04:46 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 20 Jun 2010, 03:43 am

Hey!

Did anyone said Single Ended amp?

Nice Gramophone too...

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 04:49 am »

Quote from: Mariusz on 20 Jun 2010, 03:52 am

P.S ( FULLRANGEMAN -regarding 12"OB)
300b PSE amp drives my horns and Audio Nirvan 15" drivers in OB like no other.

Well remembered: How is the musical quality of your Super15 now?? It already pass the 500 burn-in??
Gustavo

Jon L · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 04:50 am »

All true, but for me personally, I find it necessary to use SS for low bass, crossed over rather low though. Otherwise, there's a lot of music that just doesn't come across fully. I currently use 2A3 SET above 140 Hz and SS below

Mariusz · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:18 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 20 Jun 2010, 04:49 am

Well remembered: How is the musical quality of your Super15 now?? It already pass the 500 burn-in??
Gustavo

They sound better then ever.
Especially with new 300b PSE monos.
I also grabed one set of 12" woofers for OB sub and plate amp from GR. (around $200 on some "deal of a day" special)
In OB, you might need a little bit more juice to move those 15 inchers.
Say...., more then 10wpc (that depends on the room size and your listening levels).

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:26 am »

Quote from: Mariusz on 20 Jun 2010, 05:18 am

They sound better then ever.
Especially with new 300b PSE monos.
I also grabed one set of 12" woofers for OB sub and plate amp from GR. (around $200 on some "deal of a day" special)
In OB, you might need a little bit more juice to move those 15 inchers.
Say...., more then 10wpc (that depends on the room size and your listening levels).

Thanks alot for informing, looks a very special sound in your room.
The new Super15-Coax have a larger VAS and QTS, even have a more flat freq.range chart, only til 11kHz through.
Cheers, Gustavo

Mariusz · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:40 am »

Thanks Gustavo
I saw the highlights but SD 15"
is going to have to do it for now.
So many drivers so little time ...... and funds.

Mariusz

Niteshade · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 12:30 pm »

That's a good amount of power! It must be a well designed amp since most 300B's are used to 50% of their potential AND cost a fortune!

Quote from: Mariusz on 20 Jun 2010, 03:52 am

My SET is PSE around 16wpc 300b.
That 16 watts can drive almost anything over 89db in my smallish room.
I was lucky to negotiate there's reunion with preamp which was design with these amps in mind by the same builder.
There is another 5wpc amp in my stable which sounds great but not holly **** awesome. Nevertheless, great amp if your speakers are really efficient (94wpc and above).

P.S ( FULLRANGEMAN -regarding 12"OB)
300b PSE amp drives my horns and Audio Nirvan 15" drivers in OB like no other.

Mariusz · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 01:46 pm »

Please Blair, do not even get me started........ Every time I look at those 4 bulbs and think of replacement cost which is unavoidable, it makes me sick. But it sounds gloriously.
(build is quite good. Lots of NOS parts, heavy iron, simplistic approuch. Over 80lb each monoblock)

I know, it is a crappy picture - first date. ( if anyone is interested - I could take some 360 with my camera)

rollo · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 01:56 pm »

SET all the way. Using a Cyber 211 with TJ Meshplate 211s or GE NOS 211s. Push pull has pushed me away. Still own Audio Research DR250 and Classic 60. great amps no question. Especially with Maggies, Mirage or Snells.
However there is something special when the SET sound hits you in the heart. Soul baby soul. Bass say lower than 40 Hz with SETs seems to be their weak point compared to other designs. The tone makes up the difference for me. Slamatronics are OK but tone always rules.
I also believe that my musical taste of straight ahead jazz, vocals and classical are best suited for SET. If I was a rocker it would be SS or PP. All ya need is a efficent speaker over 92 DB sensitive. Heaven I'm in heaven.

charles

Mariusz · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 02:35 pm »

Consonance Cyber series is IMO the best of what Opera Audio has to offer.
211 is really nice, 300 PSE is a bit closer to my taste. Cyber 800 PP EL34 was traded for my 300b monos.
My Cyber 800 were modified by RHB Sound Dezign.
Still,.... they sounded like bad Sonny receiver compared to custom PSE monos.

werd · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 02:41 pm »

How important are the preamps here? I suppose a tube pre is a must? i hope this aint a hijack question?