Why do I like the miniwatt N3 more than the Yaqin 10L + what can I do about it?

Thinker1920 · « **on:** 21 Jun 2012, 01:35 am »

Hi Everyone,

Well I'm just getting into tubes and I don't have that much money being a college student

...... I started out with a pair of polk RTi 4's and a miniwatt N3 (from china) and I REALLY liked the sound, I had picked up an onkyo TX-SR876 a little while before the miniwatt for $300 in mint condition, and while it's a nice amp after much listening between the both with the same speakers I liked the presentation that the miniwatt gave over the onkyo. I listened to the same song on both and it sounded like the soundstage was reorganized with the miniwatt, pulling different instruments to the front like the guitar, making the whole sound more organic and less mechanical.
So after enjoying the miniwatt so much I thought I would pursue a larger tube setup. The only thing that I was disappointed with the miniwatt, and only slightly, was the bass response in very bass heavy music when played at higher volumes. I say slightly because at normal regular listening volumes the bass is actually pretty remarkable, at least I think so.
So I sold the miniwatt and the polk RTi 4's so I'd have money for a larger tube amp. After researching I decided on the Yaqin 10L since I didn't have a lot of money and I read a lot of positive reviews about it. And I ended up changing the tubes since it was recommended by others that had it. The different tubes did improve the sound mostly making the bass tighter but, I didn't get the same rich sound I had with the miniwatt, it seemed closer to the onkyo.
So long story short

here I am with a a tube amp that doesn't sound that much like the tube amp I loved

and in my searches the only guess I have is because the miniwatt was a (SET) single ended triode and the Yaqin is an Ultra linear push-pull. So I would like to find something like the miniwatt that has more power but something that won’t just be a pipe dream, that I could actually afford or something I could build, ideally it would be nice to find someone willing to trade

So thoughts, suggestions?

saisunil · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 04:18 am »

welcome to the world of tubes ...
what is your location and budget

cheers

Thinker1920 · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 04:36 am »

Binghamton, NY and currently very limited $200 unless I sell something or pick up an odd job

roscoeiii · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 04:40 am »

Yeah, that MiniWatt is a fabulous little amp. Love my N3. Perhaps get another N3 (and some Psvane tubes, oh my do they sound good on it, and do great in the bass) and buy some very efficient speakers?

Not a lot you are going to find near the MiniWatt price that give that sound with more power than the MiniWatt.

saisunil · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 04:50 am »

The budget is $200 in addition to $300 for Mini watt?
Cause $200 for a tube amp is going to be extremely hard if not impossible ...

but good luck and enjoy what you have ...

wushuliu · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 06:21 am »

These are popular but only double the power of the miniwatt:

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=75

These are double your budget but gets a good review (trustworthy site) and good amount of power.

http://hometheaterreview.com/napa-acoustic-na-208a-integrated-amplifier-reviewed/

SET amps just don't have that much power so if you want to use them you are going to have to get *very* efficient speakers. I think either of the options above will perform better than the Yaquin amps, which from all I've read just fall in the 'okay' category, as well as potential performance and design issues so don't blame the UL push-pull necessarily - you get what you pay for with the Yaquin.

Thinker1920 · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 06:47 am »

I really like the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=69 but

I would have to find someone to buy my yaqin

the only thing that makes me nervous is the tube rectified powersupply. I heard if they go bad (the tube) that it can fry the amp. I wonder how much of a difference is between the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier and the MP-301 MK2 Mini Tube Amplifier with Headphone Output.

I guess my second question would be is there something at the $560 price point thats better than the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier?

also if it's the yaqin's design at fault for making an "okay" sound would there be a mod to correct it?

Thank you all for your input

and please continue to post your thoughts!

wushuliu · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 07:33 am »

Quote from: Thinker1920 on 21 Jun 2012, 06:47 am

I really like the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=69 but

I would have to find someone to buy my yaqin

the only thing that makes me nervous is the tube rectified powersupply. I heard if they go bad (the tube) that it can fry the amp. I wonder how much of a difference is between the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier and the MP-301 MK2 Mini Tube Amplifier with Headphone Output.

I guess my second question would be is there something at the $560 price point thats better than the MP-428 300B V2 Integrated Amplifier?

also if it's the yaqin's design at fault for making an "okay" sound would there be a mod to correct it?

Thank you all for your input and please continue to post your thoughts!

Well now you more than doubled your stated budget but yes the MP 300B has gotten good feedback, you'll want to google. However I believe some folks also experienced some performance issues and had to have them fixed or replaced by MP. I think there are some threads on this at Audiokarma.

Modding the Yaquin have been done but tube amps are high voltage components and you need to know what you are doing = bad idea.

Again you are going to want very effcient speakers to go with low wattage tube amps, speakers and amps operate as one unit and need to be matched accordingly. I'm sure the Polks were okay but they are a far from ideal match for a tube amp so with the miniwatt you were not getting the best a tube amp has to offer (Stereophile shows the Polks at 90db sensitive, going down to 4 ohms with a big impedance peak and settling in the 6 ohm range, this is NOT SET friendly). A SET amp needs speakers with high sensitivity (preferably 92db and higher I'd say for a small-medium room) and flat or benign impedance. Bottom line is a retail SET/speaker combo is not going to be cheap.

That Napa amp is a better bet to start with until you get more knowledgeable about tube gear.

eclein · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 11:21 am »

Wush I'm likin that Napa recommendation, time for me to get back into tubes but I may go Jolida FX as they have remote and I need that now with my legs being so f-ed up............wush you got some awesome ideas.
Thanks

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 11:55 am »

You should really consider these $100 ( plus plywood ) easy to build open baffles using the full range Betsys. I've used them with my original Miniwatt S1 with great results. I don't think you could do better for twice your budget.

SET/SEP amps driving single driver full range speakers without sound robbing crossovers are a match made in heaven.

http://www.wildburroaudio.com/projects.php

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 02:06 pm »

Hi Thinker,

I think whatever you do, you need to acknowledge that you got rid of something that you liked because of something that you read would be better. We all fall into this trap at least once or twice in our upgrade journey. The key is to go and listen before you buy something new, or at least be able to keep what you have for a while when you audition a new piece of gear.

I know this is nearly impossible when you are a college student so my best advice is to be patient and don't make the same mistake twice. Easier said than done, I know.

One of the keys to a really great system ( at any price level) is finding component synergy, even if you just happen to stumble upon it. If you found something that gives you 90% of what you really desire at a price that you can deal with, ( the Polks and the Mini watt) then maybe the best thing you could do is to try to repurchase them.

eclein · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 02:55 pm »

Quiet Earth thats a FANTASTIC point!!!!! If it sounds good- it actually does sound good no matter what you read. I've done it also, got rid of my first MP301 when I should have kept it. But I always keep my Virtue SS amp as it sounds great also and is always here to fall back on. Buy another N3 Thinker?? Get yours back somehow-if possible.

Sometimes when we say it sounds good it actually does and its our boredom with not getting new gear that runs the show at least in my case. I've done very little with my main rig in the past year as I have done previously because I'm enjoying the sound as is.

Anyway...excellent point Q

edit: Thinker do you listen nearfield (up close most of the time to your speakers) or are you in a huge room???...Ed

roscoeiii · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 04:21 pm »

I also like Ed's DIY speaker suggestion if you at some point have access to the necessary tools to build cabinets (which your school's art dept may have...).

I quite enjoyed the 12" Audio Nirvana drivers from Common Sense Audio. They were big enough to not need a very complex box design to get good bass. Single driver systems have their limitations but also some qualities that people find irresistable (like their midrange and the ability to drive them from fleawatt amps).

Here is the link to their webpage. The drivers come with plans for cabinets.

http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/

Thinker1920 · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 07:06 pm »

Very happy with all the responses, very good points made. I have to admit I was bad

and I did repurchase the miniwatt and the polks about a month ago and but it on a Credit card

I was going to put it in my original post but I thought it was getting pretty long, and I still have the same feelings towards the miniwatt fine for normal listening but on that occasion when you're really into a song and you want to turn it up it just can't quite do it

like phantom of the opera with the organ.

this time though I got the RTi 6 since they were clearanced and cheaper than the RTi 4's. and I did look into the wild burros and looking back I should have got them instead

. So thats were I am, in debt

with one tube setup I don't like and with one setup that I have yet to pay for

. I do listen to the miniwatt pretty close b/c most of the time I'm at my desk on the laptop but sometimes I hook it up to the record player and am just in the room, and I don't want ppl to think they are low or quiet, the miniwatt does put out a decent volume for average listening it's just that occassional song that you get really into and want to turn it up.

As far as moding goes, I'm an engineering student so it doesn't scare me that much but, I do know that I would have to be very causcious. and for the money end I do odd jobs when they pop up so I'm not too nervous about paying things off, my one friend has a tree buisness and needs help for big jobs sometimes which is a great help. the only problem is that it's sporadic so I never know.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 07:45 pm »

There ain't no mod that'll make a PP amp sound like an SET.

What do you think you could resell the Yaqin for? Would that eliminate your debt?

That Musical Paradise 300b sure is tempting at its current sale price!

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 07:49 pm »

Oh, and tell us about the tube changing you've done with the Yaqin.

Thinker1920 · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jun 2012, 08:32 pm »

I changed the EL 34B's to JJ's and the 6n1's to 6n1p-ev's russian military surplus which did make the sound more detailed and better bass.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Jun 2012, 01:17 am »

That amp can use other types of driver tubes, I think. Is that right? I think I read somewhere that it can use 6922's....

Maybe some other power tubes would work better for you. You should be able to use 6L6/5881, 6CA7 and maybe even KT66. Trying those tubes would have a more profound impact on your sound (for better or worse) than going between different brands of EL34s. If you want to stick with EL34s the best I've heard are the Siemens/RFT from the early 80s. They're available, fairly affordable and sound great! Much better than the several other new production tubes I've tried.

The great thing about tube amps is the rolling possibilities. You can tweek your sound quite a bit just by rolling.

eclein · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Jun 2012, 01:42 am »

+12 tube rolling!!!!

Thinker1920 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Jun 2012, 06:05 am »

So many options for rolling it's making my head spin

It's a good idea since it would be cheaper to roll tubes then buy another amp but, I don't know which direction to go.

I think the thing I like the most about the miniwatt is its lower end reproduction, it's warm, deep, and detailed. the original el 34b's in the yaqin were not very detailed compared to the JJ's but, even though the JJ's are tighter they still seem cold to me, what tube should I try for a warmer bass? it seems the the kt77, 6CA7, and the winged C's can be interchanged without modifications, if I understood all that I've been reading but, I would like to hear it from someone who has experience with this.

Suggestions?