Atma S-30 + Spatial

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mvalentiner

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Atma S-30 + Spatial
« on: 27 Apr 2022, 06:42 pm »
I have an Atma-Sphere S-30 amp and am considering Spatial speakers. Currently, all but the X3 and X5 are spec-ed at 4Ω Impedance. Both of those are outside my target price range. Atma-Sphere recommends 8Ω and greater.
Does anyone here have this set up? Is anyone using the Anticables Zeros? Comments?

TomS

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #1 on: 28 Apr 2022, 01:07 pm »
I have an Atma-Sphere S-30 amp and am considering Spatial speakers. Currently, all but the X3 and X5 are spec-ed at 4Ω Impedance. Both of those are outside my target price range. Atma-Sphere recommends 8Ω and greater.
Does anyone here have this set up? Is anyone using the Anticables Zeros? Comments?
I believe Clayton has an S-30 at the shop so you might ask him or one of the folks there (by phone).

jnschneyer

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #2 on: 28 Apr 2022, 07:16 pm »
I was fortunate to hear a pair of X5s driven by the S-30 and MP-3, and I have no reservation in saying the sound was glorious.  I realize non-descriptive general adjectives such as glorious aren't very useful except as expressions of enthusiasm, so let me also say that, after hearing the S-30 and X5s together, I put my money where my adjectives are and ordered a pair of X5s.  In general, I find most descriptions of sound, no matter how specific they try to be, to be next to useless.  Bright, dark, round, flat, lush, dry, etc, may all mean something different to different people.  That said, unless we're just going to give measurements or show graphs of sound waves, we're stuck with metaphor, so, my previous objections notwithstanding, here goes.

There were many aspects to the sound of the X5s driven by the Atma-Sphere gear that made an impression on me.  One of the first and best qualities was the sense or feeling of space and detail in the sound production.  It was immersive, but not just that.  There was (for me), the feeling of being in a planetarium, of sitting, surrounded by that dark enormity, hearing the music against the backdrop like seeing the stars against that black sky.  If you've been in a planetarium and can picture lying back in your seat and looking up at, yet also being immersed in, the darkness and the wash of both galaxies and individual stars above you, that is something of the feeling I had listening to the S-30 and X5s.  I know.  Dude.  But it truly was remarkable.  I'd been casting around for something different, and had listened to a wide variety of speakers and electronics in that search, and the Spatial speakers, this time the X5s powered this time by the S-30, and earlier a pair of X4s powered by a Don Sachs Vahalla integrated amp, was the first setup to make me say, without any hesitation or caviling, this is the rig I want, the only one that didn't feel simply like a lateral move.  The combination of detail and (I've made this lame crack before, but I'm going to make it again) atmosphere, of presentation but also immersion, was unlike any rig I'd heard before. 

But these qualities in themselves could be parlor tricks.  What they added up to, and what was most important to me, was how moving the music was listening to them.  That seems like an odd thing to say.  After all, the music is the music, and it's the composition, the music itself, that should move you, not the gear.  I'm not smart or informed enough to explain it.  Maybe it's a matter of subtle harmonics certain gear can render.  I don't know.  What I do know is, everything I listened to, from Jacqueline Du Pre's Elgar Cello Concerto, to Bill Evans' Waltz for Debbie, to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, to Great Big World's Say Something, to Macklemore's downtown, were all moving in all the ways each piece was intended to be.  And if it wasn't as they were intended to be, I'm more than happy to live with how they moved me under the gear's influence.  While listening to Du Pre's rendition of Elgar, or Lauren Daigle's Rescue, I had to keep telling myself (while sitting in someone else's home) do not cry, do not cry.  And the X5s and S-30 were equally compelling in delivering the the delightful and wild exuberance of Bohemian Rhapsody and Downtown.  In more prosaic and typical terms, the highs were high without being fatiguing; the lows were deep and powerful without being boomy or flabby; the mids were gorgeous without being syrupy or sentimental, etc.  Again, many speakers can meet those standard standards.  What this speaker and amp did for me was move me, infuse me with a spirit not my own, but which my own spirit took in and was enhanced, enlarged by.  It's what made me buy them, having already bought excellent new speakers only 6 months before (which I now have to sell), and what prompts me to such effusive and somewhat silly prose now.

Freud said that giving oneself over to music, that surrendering, had a (psychologically speaking) masochistic component to it.  Tolstoy, in a wacky story called The Kreutzer Sonata, expressed his belief that the power of music, in its ability to infuse you with feelings not natively your own, was actually dangerous and could, and does in the story, have regrettable consequences.  While I find both of these views both interesting and a bit nutty, I think what most of us are looking for from our hifi rigs is to be just so moved, to be taken over, overtaken, transported, even amazed.  I found this combination to be just that: amazing.  Hope that helps.       

mvalentiner

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #3 on: 28 Apr 2022, 10:43 pm »
@jnschneyer, I have no doubt the X5s and S-30 sound glorious. I'm trying (hoping) to stay in the M series price range. It's a slippery slope I walk.
Thank you for your response.

RonN5

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #4 on: 28 Apr 2022, 11:22 pm »
You’ve probably donned some good headphones and listened to the Sapphires and X’s… and if you haven’t, you should. Both are musical and both have compelling characteristics. In a later discussion, Ron doesn’t say it but implies that if your room or your system is a little bright and you aren’t able to make changes, the X’s might be too much.


TomS

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #5 on: 29 Apr 2022, 12:56 am »
... Ron doesn’t say it but implies that if your room or your system is a little bright and you aren’t able to make changes, the X’s might be too much.
In my opinion, that line of thought, if that's what it is, is simply off base. No idea where that comes from as these are the easiest to listen to mid/tweeters of anything I've ever owned. And I don't do bright  8)

jnschneyer

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #6 on: 29 Apr 2022, 02:31 am »
@jnschneyer, I have no doubt the X5s and S-30 sound glorious. I'm trying (hoping) to stay in the M series price range. It's a slippery slope I walk.
Thank you for your response.

Oops.  I think I misunderstood your question.  Somehow, in my desire to wax on about the X5/S-30 combination, I interpreted your question as something like "These are out of my price range, so will someone please convince me to buy them anyway," thereby exposing my own less than sensible approach to personal finance and hifi.  Nice of me to spend so much time answering a question you didn't ask.  Sorry about that.  There's gotta be someone out there ready to offer his or her own peroration on the M series.  I say, from the bottom of my wallet, the hell with it; go with the Xs.  Good luck.

RonN5

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #7 on: 29 Apr 2022, 03:42 am »
So listen to Ron’s comments starting at the 13’ 30” mark… and draw your own conclusions…it’s not about better or worse as much as it’s about two great flavors.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwQbo7du2KM

 And as I said, listen to the comparisons on the prior link with good headphones and see which one calls your name.

The Sapphires have wider dispersion… and that can be either good or bad depending on preferences. 

Good luck… no bad decisions here.

Mr. Big

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #8 on: 29 Apr 2022, 01:14 pm »
In my opinion, that line of thought, if that's what it is, is simply off base. No idea where that comes from as these are the easiest to listen to mid/tweeters of anything I've ever owned. And I don't do bright  8)

Very good point. In fact, so much goes into what we finally hear from our speakers. The room#1, cables used along with gear used and their mix and matching, AC wall outlets, and even the cover plates (I use pure 100% copper ones, no going back once impact heard and cheap) around those AC outlets impact the sound we hear, and then on to the power cords on the gear we use. The same speaker in 100 different rooms will give you a somewhat different listening experience and gear mixed and matched in our systems.

Here is one for all to think about, Noise from wifi in streamers and the impact of the gear they are close to. I had my router upgraded to a 5G with a much stronger range for streaming on my TV, well my PC speakers started having noise issues, then my garage by door opener stated having issues opening with the remote in the cars, I called the garage door company and they came out and saw the same issue, have to be right close to the garage door for the signal to open the garage door where before I could be 100 feet or more and open the garage door as my car approached. The new router and its signal were interfering with my garage opener pickup, it was interfering with the incoming signal and blocking the pickup on my opener. He had me unplug it and sure enough all started to function properly, we made the issue better by taking the pickup antenna and facing it towards the floor instead of up in the air, the range is still not the same but it did help.

Now many have that noise mixed in with our systems, preamps that have DAC/Streaming built-in so they are in effect polluting the audio system with noise from incoming wifi signals needed to stream music, I don't use that method myself but many do.


mvalentiner

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #9 on: 29 Apr 2022, 05:04 pm »
Thank you, Everyone! All good information.

@jnschneyer No oops. Your comments are very informative.

RonN5

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #10 on: 29 Apr 2022, 06:37 pm »
mvalentiner...

ralph (atmasphere) has commented over on Agon that he likes the Spatial X's...and I'm sure if you message him directly, he will tell you how he well the S30 will work with them...and since they have their own built in sub, you aren't relying on the S30 to get you the deepest bass.

I saw this on Audiomart....after shipping, maybe a chance to save at least $1000 vs new....and if they aren't your cup of tea...then as you can see, the resale value is pretty high....in fact, both the Sapphires and the X's seem to sell pretty quickly when they come up for sale.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649849717-spatial-audio-x3-for-sale/

bbybaudio

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #11 on: 2 May 2022, 07:28 pm »
mvalentiner, as I have posted several times on AC Spatial Audio, the Atma-Sphere M60 monos with the MP3 Pre was the most realistic sound (vocalist in the room) i Have heard, albeit with different speakers and in a different room. I got rid of the Atma-Spheres due to heat! I was sweating while listening to my tunes. That being said, the Valhalla plus the X5s is a combo that does many things I heard with the Atma-Sphere set up, some things better, more grunt in the low end, and little to no heat. Others have pointed out here that you cannot go wrong with either choice.

mvalentiner

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #12 on: 2 May 2022, 08:34 pm »
Yesterday, I went to Paul Speltz's (Mr. Anticables) home and auditioned his M3s and the Axpona X4s. Paul was very gracious and generous with his time. Each speaker had their better qualities. The larger woofers in the M3 created a larger sound stage. The tweeters in the X4 created a tigher, more detailed high end. I imagine the X3s are the best of both worlds, but I walked away realizing there is no wrong decision here, just "two great flavors" as it's been pointed out.

Thank you for the X3 link @RonN5. Very tempting, but due to budget and room size considerations, I decided go with a pair of M4s + Anticables Autoformer! Clayton says lead time is 4-6 weeks. I'll report back once they're broken in.

Thank you all for you feedback and comments.

Daryl Zero

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #13 on: 2 May 2022, 11:10 pm »
Congrats. It's great you had a chance to listen to both. I'm sure you will love it.

AllanS

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #14 on: 3 May 2022, 05:01 am »
I was fortunate to…
…have read this.  I didn’t have to understand a single word to enjoy the hell outta reading it.  Damn.  Well done!

RonN5

Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #15 on: 3 May 2022, 01:00 pm »
mvalentiner

I'm confident that you will be very happy with your choice.  I think that you will find that the M4s also have a really big soundstage.  Why?  Because the Peerless mid/tweeter used on the M Sapphire series crosses really low and has very wide dispersion vs the X series which uses an 80 degree lens to reduce the dispersion yielding controlled directivity.  To be sure, though, the ultimate soundstage depends on many, many things and the room and positioning are extremely important.

A key thing to remember is that the M's, like the X's, are sensitive/revealing to positioning, toe in and rake....and don't even begin to think about serious evaluation or tweaking until 200 hours.  I'm at almost 500 hours with my M3 Sapphires and they are still improving.
 
And finally, the bass slam from an OB is different...there is not as much of a chest punch but there is a big improvement in tone.  If you miss the chest slam, you can always add a sub and cross below 50hz which won't degrade the tone but will improve the slam.

Have fun and don't forget to post pictures as well as your experience as they break in.

jnschneyer

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Re: Atma S-30 + Spatial
« Reply #16 on: 4 May 2022, 03:36 pm »
…have read this.  I didn’t have to understand a single word to enjoy the hell outta reading it.  Damn.  Well done!

Ha!  Thanks.  Overdone more like it, but some experiences demand a bit of gushing.  I'm expecting my own X5s to arrive this week.  We'll see what torrents of verbiage their arrival unleashes.