[Bingenito]

My experience (yours may vary and thats cool) tells me that the source matters most once you get to a good place on power amp and speakers. My DAC is my source and preamp so that is where I invest.

Others have a belief that they can buy into better sound with speakers and skimp on their source and or amp. That has not at all been my experience. So my rational is to put the most coin at process step 1 in the signal path because as good as the speakers are they cannot make up something in step 3 that was lost in steps 1 & 2.

Everyone spend your cash as you wish and so will I

[rich121]

My experience (yours may vary and thats cool) tells me that the source matters most once you get to a good place on power amp and speakers. My DAC is my source and preamp so that is where I invest.

Others have a belief that they can buy into better sound with speakers and skimp on their source and or amp. That has not at all been my experience. So my rational is to put the most coin at process step 1 in the signal path because as good as the speakers are they cannot make up something in step 3 that was lost in steps 1 & 2.

Everyone spend your cash as you wish and so will I

Agree...regardless what the source is, it is the most important link...garbage in, garbage out.

[Tangram]

My experience (yours may vary and thats cool) tells me that the source matters most once you get to a good place on power amp and speakers. My DAC is my source and preamp so that is where I invest.

Others have a belief that they can buy into better sound with speakers and skimp on their source and or amp. That has not at all been my experience. So my rational is to put the most coin at process step 1 in the signal path because as good as the speakers are they cannot make up something in step 3 that was lost in steps 1 & 2.

Everyone spend your cash as you wish and so will I

Cash isn't the only criteria for what works best. My amp is by far the cheapest part of my system and I will be buried with it.

[Mr. Big]

My experience (yours may vary and thats cool) tells me that the source matters most once you get to a good place on power amp and speakers. My DAC is my source and preamp so that is where I invest.

Others have a belief that they can buy into better sound with speakers and skimp on their source and or amp. That has not at all been my experience. So my rational is to put the most coin at process step 1 in the signal path because as good as the speakers are they cannot make up something in step 3 that was lost in steps 1 & 2.

Everyone spend your cash as you wish and so will I
[/quote

No one piece makes a good sounding system, look at it as a whole unit that has to work together. A good front end is important but then your preamp takes that signal and passes it on to the amp, then your amp has to be able to drive the speakers and their changing impedances and current needs. Then your room surrounds you and the sound that comes out of the speakers reflects and bounces around your room. Then speaker setup impacts the sound you hear at your seat. A great speaker in a bad room equals poor sound, good speakers in a good room and right room size works better than the more expensive speaker would. So look at your system as a whole being that gives you the total of its pieces, so balance out your quality throughout and fix your room which will be cheaper than changing gear in and out or spending more and more on gear and still not feeling satisfied. 

[Bingenito]

I assume that you are speaking generally since the rest of my system and room is squared away.

My point is that assuming you have everything squared away and you are going to upgrade something, the source matters.

[Mr. Big]

I assume that you are speaking generally since the rest of my system and room is squared away.

My point is that assuming you have everything squared away and you are going to upgrade something, the source matters.

In general of course. You know a preamp matters it the traffic cop of any system. Impedance matching matters between preamp and amp. Starts at the source and can get screwed up along the way from a poor preamp.

[rich121]

I assume that you are speaking generally since the rest of my system and room is squared away.

My point is that assuming you have everything squared away and you are going to upgrade something, the source matters.

The source is the most important part of the chain...no matter what you put in rest of the system, the performance is dependent on the source.

[aniwolfe]

@Bingenito

I bet that DAC is going to sound amazing. Source is very important. No doubt. Some people choose to spend money on components differently.

One thing to point out, that gets criticized and overlooked, is the quality of the outlets and powercord coming from the outlet to the source. Curous what you have for that?

Did you happen to try this ($50k?) Dac in your system before committing to it? I am assuming you have, but just curious.

[Bingenito]

Wow you just said that Cables Matter!!! J/K I have furutech outlets and Acoustic Zen Gargantua (power amp) and Krakatoa power cords (everything else including the subs).

As for trying the Reference DAC... Nope. I have lived with the Premier with the Powerbase now for 45 days and it is the single most transformational thing that I have ever done to my system. There is general consensus that the Reference gets your more information and not at the usual expense of brightness. Instead it is smoother, more natural and musical (hybrid DACs, power supplies, analog volume control, etc.). So based on what I am hearing I have zero concerns.

Keep in mind... I'm selling off a Preamp, ICs, Power cable and other gear from a 2nd system. Again to each their own... everyone do you

Underlying point here if anyone missed it is that the Spatials are that good.

[Bingenito]

Quick updates

1- I took the REL subs out and they are for Sale on US Audiomart. Now that the X4s are fully broken in I prefer the sound without subs. I learned a lesson that you can all learn here for free. Yes these speakers sound great out of the box but before you make a big or expensive move make sure that they have over 500hrs on them because now the bass is spectacular.

2- MSB Reference DAC should be only around 2-3 weeks out.

3- I just ordered a pair of Apollon Audio PNC1200 monos with Weiss op amps. My intention is to run them with another pair of speakers but will likely do a shootout on the X4s. Running a Pass X250.8 today and love it.

[birdyblabla]

Quick updates

1- I took the REL subs out and they are for Sale on US Audiomart. Now that the X4s are fully broken in I prefer the sound without subs. I learned a lesson that you can all learn here for free. Yes these speakers sound great out of the box but before you make a big or expensive move make sure that they have over 500hrs on them because now the bass is spectacular.

2- MSB Reference DAC should be only around 2-3 weeks out.

3- I just ordered a pair of Apollon Audio PNC1200 monos with Weiss op amps. My intention is to run them with another pair of speakers but will likely do a shootout on the X4s. Running a Pass X250.8 today and love it.

Any updates?

[Bingenito]

The MSB Reference has been here for about a month and is a solid step up from the Premier. Soundstage extends far beyond my walls which is ~4ft off the sides of each speaker, tonal balance and dynamics improved as well. The Apollon amps should arrive in the next 2 weeks (fingers crossed).

I will post a full update with photos once the amps are in and fully vetted.

[AndrewA]

What would be the reasons for preferring the fully passive X4 over the X3?

With the X3 for only $500 more you get greater bass extension, higher sensitivity and higher impedance.  I know there are different models of drivers and no idea how they compare.

[Tyson]

What would be the reasons for preferring the fully passive X4 over the X3?

With the X3 for only $500 more you get greater bass extension, higher sensitivity and higher impedance.  I know there are different models of drivers and no idea how they compare.

If you want to run low watt tube amps, there's no comparison, the X3 is much better. 

Mid to high powered tube amps would work well with the X4's, as would most SS amps.  The X4 is also smaller, and might fit better into small rooms. 

[Bingenito]

Agree with Tyson on the amp comment.

I have a very large room and prefer high power solid state amps over tube amps. My system, room and use case dictated the speaker as there is no best... just best for the application and preference e.g. Framing hammer vs finish hammer... both hammers but for different applications.

I will say that I am a fan of bass and the X4s with some power strapped to them will shake the **** out of your entire house. Room is 30x18 and never have I said that I want more bass. Had 2 REL Carbon specials and when the X4 was fully broken in I sold them. New out of the box the Rels added bottom end but after I crossed 500hrs I tried it again and this was no longer the case.

Amps used so far have been, Kinki B7 monos, Pass X250.8, ATI NC525 borrowed from my HT room to test Class D, VTV Purifi with Sparkos Pro. Might loose my audiophile card but the Class D amps do a better job with the X4 in my opinion. Is what it is... I just call it as I hear it. The power and control just pays dividends.

[S Clark]

... My amp is by far the cheapest part of my system and I will be buried with it.

Probably in a shallow grave in the back yard dug by your wife.  I fully expect my wife to bury me in one of my speakers. 

[Bingenito]

I fully expect my wife to bury me in one of my speakers.

Seems like a good reason to get a gym membership and bigger speakers man... 

[catluck]

Bingenito's comment re: class D amps delivering the sonic goods is precisely my experience with M3's.  Yes, they sound amazing with 50 watts class A tubes but when I hooked up the 300 watt Bel Canto eRef 600's I was astonished at the sound quality.  Detail, resolution, transparency and tonal density to burn. But the bass, quantity, quality, texture, presence just stands out!  So I went from 100 lb. monoblocks to 15 lb. monoblocks with almost no discernible loss in sound quality.  If we lose our audiophile credentials so be it. We have the music to sooth us...  BTW, I'm still using tubes but I write for those considering class D - don't let circuit topology determine your options....

[Tyson]

It's true, the X series does sound very good with high powered amps.  I'm not running Class D, but I do have a pair of Odyssey Kismet monoblocks and the sound is incredible. 

[morganc]

Yes to the high powered amp crowd.  I had a DAC Megaschino with my prior X-5’s and current X-3’s and loved it.  Amazing pairing and I would have kept it but for the lack of repair options with the
Asking of the manufacturer.   

Currently have a Don Sachs Pre and Amp combo and happy to have these tubes as well.  Each sounds better on different genres.