Sometimes it is just the bad recordings. Also being a tube man at one time, tubes can change the sound from bright, to natural and then a classic tube sound that makes you want to listen to the music, I tube rolled some tubes that make my solid-state amp sound like a tube unit in comparison. Try a more powerful amp also, my M3's sound better when I switched to a 300-watt amp and then a 2nd one that I just purchased, no real brightness but bad recordings sound bad, like where the bass go, to the next recording where the bass can shake the room. The bane of audio, the poor recordings out there, and no format can fix that, only hope would be a total remix of that recording and that is not going to happen.
Will be interesting to see what my brother's SS 125 wpc (most tests show around 150-175, so underrated by factory) Adcom amp sounds like on Saturday. Most of the albums in question do sound good or great not only at lower volume but the "cleaner" (if any) tracks, such as an acoustical track in a sea of electric sound great. Most of these are very well regarded pressings ($$$). I have separated my records into 3 different areas (poor, good, excellent) and these troubled ones are still in my excellent pressing area. While I have plenty of crappy recordings, I don't *think* these are. I think it is system or room issue - probably both. This is well received though and I have spent a mint over the past 5-6 months on excellent pressings incl. 1st pressing of Abby Rd and DSOTM which arrives later this week and many more.
Forky, what you are going through is almost identical to my own M3 experience. For sure, you probably need more seat time to get used to the presentation from your new speakers. They are detailed and revealing. I struggled mightily with them being too bright. Out of curiosity, what speakers were you using before?
After trying just about everything under the sun, I...turned down the volume! My room has a distinct "ideal listening volume". As soon as I go above 85 db, the highs are piercing and cringy. This HASN'T changed much in the 8 months I've owned the M3s. Break in will only get you so far. But your largely untreated room will definitely dictate your maximum listening volume.
I'd be willing to bet that your previous speakers were lower sensitivity than the M3's 92 db. I went from a pair of Magnepans with a manufacturer-reported 86 db sensitivity, but Stereophile measured them at 80 db! Detailed but flat presentation.
Because the Spatials have a wider dynamic range (reflecting their higher sensitivity) at the same AVERAGE volume, transients will be at a higher volume than on my Maggies, just as quieter passages are quieter. So the Spatials were regularly breaching 87, even 90 db on dynamic music, and that was when the piercing, cringy highs would come in.
By all means, tube roll, play around with speaker position, etc. but do that after you monitor listening volumes with your SPL meter. You should find that you are regularly going above volumes that reveal your room's limitations, not your speaker's limitations. Dial it down, let your ears adjust to the slightly lower volumes, and see how that goes. 90 db peaks should be fine in a home system, but only when you have a really good room.
A lot of guys with Spatials say "they aren't bright", but then, they are listening at 70 db. You actually like it pretty loud, as do I. They are very energetic speakers, which results in amazing dynamics (possible their best attribute). But, at least in my case, it tooks some time to figure out why they were bright for me but not for others. If you want I'll sell you my brand new Schiit Lokius, which I ordered months ago because of the brightness issues I had. But in the time I waited for it, I figured out my problem. No need for EQ.
Awesome post! Exactly what I have been looking for even though I've ready plenty of older threads/posts including yours. That is something I always try to keep in mind when reading others post or reviews is what kind of music, how loud to they listen and how good is their system and the pressing itself (if vinyl).
What you wrote is what I had known (break in) or suspected (more treatment) but every so often I get impatient and this 400 hour breakin period seems insane to me but - that's the deal.
I have plenty of music that sounds unbelievably good (to me, although I'm nowhere near getting them to disappear which is another topic for another day - but still very good soundstage) at 85-90 db with peaks of 90-95 - but not much over that - not that my ears want it any louder than that anyway. Most Pink Floyd, Dire Straights, FMac, Unplugged series, Santana, Dave Brubeck and many others sound phenomenal loud. Just not these 10% or so and I don't think it is the recording but I do think it is just time and room treatment. However, you wrote that you still have issues with this so....hmmm.
Prior speakers were 1991 (pre- Best Buy) Mirage M460s I purchased new. They lack bass and ballz but do sound great - but they don't do well with screaming guitars also. Was hoping the M3s would be better and maybe they will be.
Will take you up on your Loki offer if some of these changes (and time) don't work out - but thanks much.
The upper mid-range on guitars is often harsh. When you mention the Aenima Tool record (their worst recording by far) I know what you're talking about. I think you might actually just be hearing what's going on better with these speakers. They're more transparent and they are revealing the problems in guitar tone. High gain guitar amps are usually run through 4x12" speaker cabinets. Those 12" drivers beam terribly in the upper mid range (picture a 12" woofer producing 2000Hz-5000Hz in your home stereo and you will understand). This is recorded through a dynamic microphone (often a Shure SM57) that has a gain increase around those same frequencies and now the guitars are bright. With revealing speakers you will hear this much more.
Very interesting! This is also something I've wondered about - hifi really isn't made for screaming guitars (?). I had Cerwin Vega At15s before my Mirages when I was a teenager - great for hard rock and sound clean but not much more than that (accuracy, sound stage, etc., etc. etc.). If this winds up to be the case I'll just manage to be happy with the other 90% of my record colletcion.
When you have lower ceilings and/or concrete floors and/or glass doorwalls and the sound is bouncing all over the place...well you get the point.
Let me suggest a little "trick" I learned in my younger days about how to listen at 90db without as much of a sensation of brightness (although this volume still isn't good for your long term hearing/tinitus).
Listen to your first song at 75 db....then your second and third song at 80 db...then your fourth and fifth song at 85 db...then step up to 90db...in other words, you are conditioning your hearing to both the "harshness" and the volume.
PS....I now try to listen at 80db or below to protect what hearing I have left...which fortunately is pretty even from left ear to right.
Thanks, will also try this. I have tinnitus also and maybe a (small!!!) blessing my wife sends me texts like "TURN IT DOWN" when the volume is at 3
which is about 70-75 db. However, as long as the music IS clean with little distortion, and although I know that higher levels will damage more, it doesn't hurt my ears or head. As soon as I get a hint of distortion I turn it down. But do still like listening to (clean/ undistorted) music at around 85 db. I'm 53 - only need for my hearing to hang in there another 25 years or so!...longer if I'm lucky. My actual hearing is fine although my wife may dispute that.
Well, forky, you have a thousand things to do. Get on it.
Indeed! THANKS to all who posted. Speakers are tilted back more which helped some and although plugging into the wall (vs. my bat backup) didn't help, it did improve the sound slightly.
I think for the most part the speakers just need more time and my room needs treatment. That should be most of the battle - but realize for these 10%, they may never sound very good at louder volume.
Will buy a Loki if these don't work though. And also might be the amp - will know more on Saturday. I have ready more than a few posts that Primaluna are bright - but who knows what was going on w/ the rest of the system, music and room treatment (although one thread was an apples to apples w an amp swap). Also, I heard back from Brent Jesse and will probably try some GE blacks to get me through the breakin period which should help some.
