[kenreau]

This could turn into a political platform at this rate. Let's let it be a Spatial audio platform and leave off the allusions to political leanings. Please.

Agreed. Fwiw, I didn't bring up politics, only stated the facts regarding extraordinary inflation the past few years. 

[RonN5]

Another aspect of increasing prices beyond "just inflation" could be the "cost" of new ownership.  A number of smaller, well know companies have been sold over the past year and the new owners find themselves with debt to service...either the volume, the price or both have to go up.

One of the great things about the M and X series is that you could buy a product that fit your room size...now you can't.  I have a really big room and I'm not sure the 12" version would work as well.  Lets hope they can come up with more products and more options over the course of the year.

[Mr. Big]

12" subwoofer if designed well can give you a good amount of bottom end.

[DaveWin88]

12" subwoofer if designed well can give you a good amount of bottom end.

Some food for thought guys on bass driver size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P71XpHRBZgY

[Mr. Big]

Some food for thought guys on bass driver size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P71XpHRBZgY

This has been known for years, but then I have been in this hobby for 40 years so what I take for granted others may not. So a very good video. My Dynaudio Confidence 5 had an 8" woofer in a closed box design, that speaker could shake a room like you had a sub-woofer. It is all in the design of the speakers how drivers are used as well as the crossover design along with cabinet design. Thanks for sharing this video.

[DaveWin88]

This has been known for years, but then I have been in this hobby for 40 years so what I take for granted others may not. So a very good video. My Dynaudio Confidence 5 had an 8" woofer in a closed box design, that speaker could shake a room like you had a sub-woofer. It is all in the design of the speakers how drivers are used as well as the crossover design along with cabinet design. Thanks for sharing this video.

Your welcome. I've had more ah-ha moments through Paul than almost anyone else on YT.

[zybar]

Another factor in the current lineup (I am guessing) is that Clayton was out ill for an extended period of time.

I am expecting to see more choices in the future now that he is back and doing better.

George

[Mr. Big]

Another factor in the current lineup (I am guessing) is that Clayton was out ill for an extended period of time.

I am expecting to see more choices in the future now that he is back and doing better.

George

Very good and dead on point. I was looking at TAS today. If some want to complain about what Clayton charges today they can find many small 2-way speakers for 15-20K. That makes what Spatial charges for what you get more than fair. And they blow many 25K speakers out of the water, so 8K while not cheap offers high value for what you receive for your money. I am sure they will expand their lineup to offer speakers in the 5K ranges. That is only smart business. Many brands today due to lack of interest, shrinking market, and disposable income for the middle class have gone to products made for those with ultra-high incomes, with lots of disposable money to spare. With the core audiophiles now in their 60s and up in age with nowhere near the interest of the ones much younger this hobby is slowly dying.  I saw Audio Research one of the oldest names in audio filed for bankruptcy. My 1st great preamp was their SP3A back in the '70s.

[catluck]

Value ought not be confused with Price (MSRP).  The value proposition of SA products has never been in contention in this thread.  I wholeheartedly agree that the SA product(s) offer extraordinary value.  My focus is on the entry level MSRP that, at $8,000, is simply too costly for many.  Again, the question is whether SA is no longer able to offer a high-value product for an MSRP of $5,000 - $6,000?

[Mr. Big]

Value ought not be confused with Price (MSRP).  The value proposition of SA products has never been in contention in this thread.  I wholeheartedly agree that the SA product(s) offer extraordinary value.  My focus is on the entry level MSRP that, at $8,000, is simply too costly for many.  Again, the question is whether SA is no longer able to offer a high-value product for an MSRP of $5,000 - $6,000?

It would depend on where they are seeing their greatest sales. Audio is a crazy hobby nowadays, quality and value are looked at by how much it costs, for some reason if to affordable it is viewed as inferior which is not always the case. In fact asked the average Joe like I have in my family and extended family of 125 at family reunions, if any have audio systems of $1,000, zero, when I tell them my speakers cost 5K my power cords $800.00 each, they think I am nuts and laugh (god knows what they say if when I was really buying big dollar speakers, amps, preamps, etc.). So there you have it, we are a speck on the map of consumer products of high cost. My system today with the Mark Levinson amp, preamp, SACD CD Player, Speakers, and cables, conditioner, room acoustics, would be around $40K. In the past 60K or so. Now retired those days are gone. Now I appreciate what I have and enjoy it. If I buy now it will be preowned and really not much out there interests me due to owning so much in 40 years in this hobby, and fully knowing when it's good it is good. There is no holy grail out there, yes, you can change the sound a bit with gear, but then you can do the same with a power cord change on gear. Spatial will get back on track, after being challenged most of 2023 with health issues of the designer and owner, and parts being in short supply. For a small company that is really a hardship.

[catluck]

Mr. Big,
Although your comments veer somewhat from the subject of this thread, they mostly sing my song.  Like you, I've pursued this mad passionate  hobby for over 45 years.  Mostly purchased used because, as many of us know, most audiophile types treat their gear better than their children.  So "used" typically turned out to be mint and at 1/2 MSRP or so.  But I also find myself following the trajectory of the late, great, and truly missed Art Dudley who pronounced his passion to simplify seeking tone, tactility, and presence.  It's funny how, now, I find some of my earlier purchases less desirable (so much so!) than I apparently did when younger. I no longer desire to own an amp or preamp with 8 tubes on deck. I've learned that the too often breathless claim of "night and day" reported difference is rarely demonstrated in practice. I've learned that there are less expensive pieces that are the equal of far more expensive gear and synergy is the great equalizer.  And because of my longevity and exposure in/to things audio, I'm no longer susceptible to the fallacy that high cost necessarily connotes "good sound."  I've written about this in the MiniGan thread.  I'm no longer embarrassed or hesitant to admit that I'm using/enjoying less than stratospherically priced products where in my earlier years it seems so many had to proclaim their ownership of expensive kit to be considered "in the club," "serious audiophiles," or the like.  I may now be listening to the least expensive system I've owned and enjoying it the most. But, apparently, it took 45 years of avidly reading stereo rags, going to at least 20 audio shows, owning/auditioning at least 250 pieces of gear to finally find peace and unalloyed enjoyment in my current choices until...

[Mr. Big]

Mr. Big,
Although your comments veer somewhat from the subject of this thread, they mostly sing my song.  Like you, I've pursued this mad passionate  hobby for over 45 years.  Mostly purchased used because, as many of us know, most audiophile types treat their gear better than their children.  So "used" typically turned out to be mint and at 1/2 MSRP or so.  But I also find myself following the trajectory of the late, great, and truly missed Art Dudley who pronounced his passion to simplify seeking tone, tactility, and presence.  It's funny how, now, I find some of my earlier purchases less desirable (so much so!) than I apparently did when younger. I no longer desire to own an amp or preamp with 8 tubes on deck. I've learned that the too often breathless claim of "night and day" reported difference is rarely demonstrated in practice. I've learned that there are less expensive pieces that are the equal of far more expensive gear and synergy is the great equalizer.  And because of my longevity and exposure in/to things audio, I'm no longer susceptible to the fallacy that high cost necessarily connotes "good sound."  I've written about this in the MiniGan thread.  I'm no longer embarrassed or hesitant to admit that I'm using/enjoying less than stratospherically priced products where in my earlier years it seems so many had to proclaim their ownership of expensive kit to be considered "in the club," "serious audiophiles," or the like.  I may now be listening to the least expensive system I've owned and enjoying it the most. But, apparently, it took 45 years of avidly reading stereo rags, going to at least 20 audio shows, owning/auditioning at least 250 pieces of gear to finally find peace and unalloyed enjoyment in my current choices until...

Yes, I did go off track a bit, but what I was trying to convey is how high-end audio is changing, and that though 8k is not chump change compared to the prices asked today new or even used nowadays with units 10-20 years old being listed for crazy money and some can no longer be repaired.

in the big picture Spatial 2 speakers are not overly priced at all having only 2 models at the moment to sell and they if you go by sound quality offer the most excellent sound. I am sure more affordable models are coming once Clayton gets back in the groove again. At 72 I've heard enough, and I am done now time to enjoy and no longer worry about the next "big" thing that comes month. Many of those products are here today and gone tomorrow. Media hype runs its course.

[2bigears]

  250 pieces of gear Mr. Big ?  Holy shit man.  You were in big alright. A hobby it was. You were having fun ?  No ?   

[Mr. Big]

250 pieces of gear Mr. Big ?  Holy shit man.  You were in big alright. A hobby it was. You were having fun ?  No ?   

Not sure I said 250, I reread my posts and did not see that, if so a typo. But all the names that started this industry are the major ones I have owned over the years. I learned a lot and spent a lot, enjoyed it but in hindsight, there is no absolute sound or the holy grail but only the sound of music you enjoy, be it clear, transparent head music or musical and more soul from the emotions. I did learn if I worked on my room acoustics more I might not have chased my tail as much..smile!

[catluck]

Mr. Big is not guilty of claiming to have owned/auditioned 250 pieces of gear... I am.  Think about "auditioning" the pieces at a single CES or similar show.  How many? At least 100 per show, no?  I readily admit the rooms are generally not optimized, the gear is/was mostly unknown to me, program content unfamiliar, etc.  Still, one can get a "sense" of speakers, amps, and the like.  Clearly  not a disciplined approach to evaluating gear but, again, a sense, FWIW, of the kit on show.  Otherwise, why would purveyors exhibit?  For those who would criticize any claim(s) made re: gear "auditioned" under such conditions,  you'll get no argument from me.  I readily accede. But, given that one cannot own anything like a broad spectrum of equipment there is simply no other way for personal "evaluation"  to occur.  Hence, my comment that after many years of auditioning equipment in stereo stores (yes, they once existed [for the younger audience]), shows, audiophile friends' homes, etc.,  I now claim to have reached a plateau where audiophile nervosa appears banished to far-off horizon. And, again, with perhaps the least expensive gear I've owned.  I credit, in no small part, my satisfaction to the Sapphires.

[Tyson]

Mr. Big is not guilty of claiming to have owned/auditioned 250 pieces of gear... I am.  Think about "auditioning" the pieces at a single CES or similar show.  How many? At least 100 per show, no?  I readily admit the rooms are generally not optimized, the gear is/was mostly unknown to me, program content unfamiliar, etc.  Still, one can get a "sense" of speakers, amps, and the like.  Clearly  not a disciplined approach to evaluating gear but, again, a sense, FWIW, of the kit on show.  Otherwise, why would purveyors exhibit?  For those who would criticize any claim(s) made re: gear "auditioned" under such conditions,  you'll get no argument from me.  I readily accede. But, given that one cannot own anything like a broad spectrum of equipment there is simply no other way for personal "evaluation"  to occur.  Hence, my comment that after many years of auditioning equipment in stereo stores (yes, they once existed [for the younger audience]), shows, audiophile friends' homes, etc.,  I now claim to have reached a plateau where audiophile nervosa appears banished to far-off horizon. And, again, with perhaps the least expensive gear I've owned.  I credit, in no small part, my satisfaction to the Sapphires.

I did show coverage at RMAF for many, many years and it's amazing how many manufacturers there are out there.  Man, if I counted up all the gear in all the rooms over all the years (plus buddies systems and my own), I think I might be over a thousand.  I did the show coverage with a friend and we brought a custom ripped CD with 5 tracks of Mahler, Handel, Natalie Merchant, Tom Waits and Billie Eilish and could get a very good idea of the sound of the system within about 12 minutes. 

Actually a lot of our show coverage we did live and posted our impressions here on AC each year in the RMAF circle.  It's too bad they discontinued RMAF, I miss those days...

[Mr. Big]

Mr. Big is not guilty of claiming to have owned/auditioned 250 pieces of gear... I am.  Think about "auditioning" the pieces at a single CES or similar show.  How many? At least 100 per show, no?  I readily admit the rooms are generally not optimized, the gear is/was mostly unknown to me, program content is unfamiliar, etc.  Still, one can get a "sense" of speakers, amps, and the like.  Clearly  not a disciplined approach to evaluating gear but, again, a sense, FWIW, of the kit on show.  Otherwise, why would purveyors exhibit?  For those who would criticize any claim(s) made re: gear "auditioned" under such conditions,  you'll get no argument from me.  I readily accede. But, given that one cannot own anything like a broad spectrum of equipment there is simply no other way for personal "evaluation"  to occur.  Hence, my comment that after many years of auditioning equipment in stereo stores (yes, they once existed [for the younger audience]), shows, audiophile friends' homes, etc.,  I now claim to have reached a plateau where audiophile nervosa appears banished to far-off horizon. And, again, with perhaps the least expensive gear I've owned.  I credit, in no small part, my satisfaction to the Sapphires.

The major difference today compared to what I call the golden age of high-end audio was the true audio stores with the staff and experience to carry excellent gear from starters to the experienced and had the knowledge to buy gear they felt offered exceptional sound. In fact, they encouraged you to visit and hang out where which opens up meeting others with the same passion for reproduced music, and if you were young like I was a much more experienced hobbyist. Yes, they wanted sales but they knew you had to create an atmosphere where by hear systems and gear that they had and new products they might add, they do a showing of them so we could hear for ourselves, asked questions and so. Today I visit a store and they know little, a poor setup of the gear and speakers, can feel they want the sale, but give you no reason or information for a reason to buy but the status and the price of the gear like that the reason you buy, they miss the boat because they are not true music lovers but a salesman and poor ones at that because they really don't have the personal experience. I've had people visit my house and they say they learned more from me than they had in an audio store because I can show them and demo for them so they can hear for themselves.  You do hands one and educate and listen because back in the day they knew dam more than 90% of us and as much as the most experienced hobbyist.