LDR3 & LDR6 Passive Preamps

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underdog64

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LDR3 & LDR6 Passive Preamps
« on: 29 Dec 2012, 03:00 pm »
What's the advantages/disadvantages of a LDR volume control over-let's say a Goldpoint stepped VC with surface mount resistors?

underdog64

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #1 on: 29 Dec 2012, 03:03 pm »
Any chance you could consider a version with a single pair of small signal tubes in the circuit path (like the Dodd)? If so-I'd probably purchase that version

rollo

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #2 on: 29 Dec 2012, 04:30 pm »
Night and day differences. Faster transients, no smearing, extremely neutral. However all is moot until you try one in your system. The beauty of this type of passive is just that, no active circuitry to muck it up. A Dodd buffer may add some warmth but that would be defeating the LDR purpose. Neutrality to the source.
     We Rep and sell Dodd  gear and suggest to listen to the Tortuga on its own merits. The Dodd may add some flavor but that would defeat the purpose of the passive device.


charles

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #3 on: 29 Dec 2012, 07:15 pm »
What's the advantages/disadvantages of a LDR volume control over-let's say a Goldpoint stepped VC with surface mount resistors?

By most accounts (including my own), LDR's simply perform better than conventional resistive attenuators. The light dependent conductive material in audio grade LDRs (cadmium sulfide) is considered a "direct bandgap" semiconductor. I'm not a physicist and don't pretend to understand the significance of that but point it out only to differentiate it from the type of materials used in better metal film resistors which is usually nickel chromium. For whatever reason, the conductive material used in LDRs has a more benign impact on the audio signal.

Also, with LDRs you can avoid all those mechanical interface/contact points inherent with switch based stepped attenuators. Each mechanical interface point in the signal path is an opportunity for sonic mischief. The Tortuga Audio LDRs have no switches or relays in the signal path - only LDRs.

The bottom line with LDRs (as Charles also mentioned in his reply) is very clear, articulate and neutral attenuation compared to conventional resistive devices. LDRs tend to get out of the way and don't add their own coloration.

Morten

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #4 on: 29 Dec 2012, 07:32 pm »
Any chance you could consider a version with a single pair of small signal tubes in the circuit path (like the Dodd)? If so-I'd probably purchase that version

As Charles mentioned in his comment, introducing tubes (or any other active circuitry) into the signal pathway of a passive preamp kind of defeats the whole purpose of a "passive preamp" - which is to get out of the way and let the music through with a minimum of manipulation (a less is more approach to audio).

However, passive preamps are not a universal good fit for all combinations of sources and amps. They "like" low impedance sources mated to high impedance amps. Most tubes amps are a good fit. Any solid state amp with an input impedance of say 40-50k or higher should also work fine with passive preamps. I've personally run our LDRx Passive Preamps between a DAC with 825 output impedance and a solid state amp with 15k input impedance and it worked very well but you really have to try passive preamps with your particular source/amp to know for sure.

We do have a "buffer" product in the works to deal with those instances where the impedance match just isn't conducive to a passive preamps. Such a buffer could be solid state or tube although we'll likely offer a solid state version initially. Either way, unity gain buffers are active circuits and this gets away from the whole point of a passive preamp in the first place.

Morten

richidoo

Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #5 on: 31 Dec 2012, 03:29 pm »
Welcome to Audiocircle. Your product looks very nice, well thought out, and a good value. Congratulations.

Some questions if you don't mind...

Are those little silver dots on the front source LED indicators or source switching buttons?

Is there a visual volume level indicator?

What's the big flat black circle on the left front panel?

Is there a remote control? IR or RF? What functions?

What is the input impedance, is it constant across all attenuation levels?

Will your buffer be discreet or IC?

Will the balanced version still be LDR only signal path? So using XLR>SE adapters will not affect SQ?

How is variable LDR attenuation superior to Vishay S102 resistors as used in Placette Passive Preamp, or autoformer as used in Bent Audio TAP-X? Prices of these RC passive preamps are roughly comparable to yours.

Thanks!
Rich

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #6 on: 1 Jan 2013, 03:45 pm »
Quote
Welcome to Audiocircle. Your product looks very nice, well thought out, and a good value. Congratulations.

Some questions if you don't mind...

Are those little silver dots on the front source LED indicators or source switching buttons?

Thanks Rich and Happy New Year everyone!  The dots are LED indicators. There are 7 on the LDR6 of which 6 indicate which input is selected and the 7th is a status indicator. The LDR1 only has the single status indicator LED. All control actions are possible via both the rotary encoder knob and the infrared remote.

Quote
Is there a visual volume level indicator?

No. The current models do not have a visual volume indicator. The next revision of these models will likely have a graphical volume bar & dB read out along with other status information. The balanced version of the LDRx will probably be the first to have a graphical info display when it come out later in the 1st quarter.

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What's the big flat black circle on the left front panel?

It's an optical grade polymer infrared filter that only lets in infrared control signals. An IR receiver sits right behind it. The IR command reception if very robust. I've even see it work at a near 90 degree angle to the remote 30+ feet away.

Quote
Is there a remote control? IR or RF? What functions?

Yes, there's an IR remote.  Functions include: power on/off, raise/lower volume, mute, select/confirm, balance mode enable, balance reset, balance adjust left/right, and for the LDR6 only,  individual input select buttons for each of the 6 inputs.

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What is the input impedance, is it constant across all attenuation levels?

The LDRx models emulate a ~100k ohm potentiometer/attenuator (L-pad) and thus have variable impedance accordingly.

Quote
Will your buffer be discreet or IC?

Current plans call for using highly regarded audio grade op amps (ICs) with a high quality regulated linear power supply.

Quote
Will the balanced version still be LDR only signal path? So using XLR>SE adapters will not affect SQ?

As things stand now, yes.

Quote
How is variable LDR attenuation superior to Vishay S102 resistors as used in Placette Passive Preamp, or autoformer as used in Bent Audio TAP-X? Prices of these RC passive preamps are roughly comparable to yours.

We became convinced of the sonic superiority of LDRs through early prototype work comparing performance to conventional resistive devices/materials (pots & metal film resistors). I don't have an explanation for this other than to point out that LDRs utilize a light dependent cadmium based semiconductor resistive material which is very different from that used in any pot or resistor. The best way I have to describe it is LDRs get out of the way of music rather than participate in it. In one of the early tests we had a manual bypass switch that allowed bypassing the LDR preamp altogether. Using a relatively low gain amp (loud but not too at full volume) we ran the LDR at full volume and flipped the bypass switch on and off. I personally could not tell any difference in the audio quality with the LDR vs. direct path between a DAC and a solid state amp (did not try this with a tube amp but wouldn't expect different results). In my mind, this further confirmed my perception that LDRs are pure volume attenuators with remarkable clarity and lack of coloration....or if you will, superior conductors of music!  :thumb:

I personally have not compared our LDR pre vs. any transformer based attenuator. What I can say is one of our customers was once an owner/user of a Bent Audio Slagle auto-former pre-amp and traded that for a LDR based unit and never looked back. He later upgraded to a Tortuga Audio LDR1 because he wanted the ability to fine tune the left/right channel balance.


richidoo

Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #7 on: 1 Jan 2013, 06:33 pm »
Thanks Morten. Good info, and well written.

George Stantschleff, the creator of the "Lightspeed Attenuator" and who started this whole LDR movement, attributes the superior sound quality of LDRs to the absence of temporary contacts. These allow microscopic arcing between the contacts where the distance is small enough to arc through air with the signal voltage. The arcing raises the noise floor, obscuring micro detail. Some contact enhancer products improve the sound of temporary connections by replacing the air between the contact surfaces with a higher dielectric material (oil) to reduce the incidence of micro arcing and lower the noise. LDR is solid state and soldered into circuit, thus eliminating temporary contacts and their noise. But I think you are right, that the quality of the resistor itself is very good.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #8 on: 6 Jan 2013, 08:15 pm »
Nice review of our LDR6 Passive Preamp on HiFiPig.com.   :thumb:

Quote
There is just a sense of absolutely everything having been stripped free of fuzz and imprecision. Instrumental placement isn’t approximate or inferred. Instead, instruments are precisely located at a fixed and exact distance from the others with the space between performers and the characteristics of the recording environment jaw-droppingly obvious.

Quote
… the LDR6 produces a sound completely free of colouration, with a soundstage that was just consistently deeper and better resolved than with any other passive pre-amp I have ever used.

Quote
…suitably matched, sonically, the LDR6 is an absolute gem. Jaw-droppingly transparent, with faultless microprocessor control, this pre-amp provides a level of transparency usually the domain of hair shirt enthusiasts, with the convenience of remote control.

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It’s possibly the most transparent pre-amp I’ve yet used.

Full review can be found at:  http://hifipig.com/tortuga-audio-ldr6-passive-pre-amp/

deauguie

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #9 on: 12 Jan 2013, 07:08 pm »
Hi,

Any thought to producing a unit with fewer than 6 inputs...say 3 or 4?  6 inputs, for me anyway, would be a waste.  I would never see myself using 6 inputs in my system.  BTW, I read the HiFiPig review...very nice :thumb:

Thanks,

Dan 

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jan 2013, 09:40 pm »
Hi,

Any thought to producing a unit with fewer than 6 inputs...say 3 or 4?  6 inputs, for me anyway, would be a waste.  I would never see myself using 6 inputs in my system.  BTW, I read the HiFiPig review...very nice :thumb:

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan,

I get your point about 6 being more than most will likely ever use. During the design phase we got fixated on maximizing the use of available real estate on the rear panel and backed into 6 inputs and then moved on. Not our most brilliant moment but there you have it.   :duh:

Note that we did subsequently come out with our LDR1, a single input, dual output model for $280 less than the 6 input LDR6. Doing so required redesigning the front & rear panels plus some minor software changes. We were able to keep the same internal PCB as with the LDR6. The reduction in part count and assembly labor accounts for the price difference.

We considered a 3 input/2 output version but since it would end up costing almost the same as the LDR6 given the panel redesign etc. we dropped that idea thinking it wasn't different enough to matter and that the 6 input LDR6 could obviously accommodate 2,3 or 4 inputs as well as 6.

The next design iteration of the unbalanced LDRx preamp will likely have 3 inputs and 2 outputs but we don't have a time frame for when that will happen. Before that happens, we intend to come out with a balanced version of the LDRx which will probably have 2 balanced inputs and dual balanced outputs, plus a single unbalanced input & output. Hope to have that out in March. We're also working on being able to offer a warmer & more elegant front panel made from wood (probably rosewood) as an option rather than the current matte black anodized version.

If it's a matter of the price point of the LDR6 relative to only really needing 2-3 inputs, I suggest you private message me or email me direct via morten@tortugaaudio.com. Happy to discuss and try to work something out.  :D

Cheers,

Morten



underdog64

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jan 2013, 07:29 pm »
Hi-What are the dimensions of the LDR1 in inches? Want to make sure it would fit into my rack which has about 5" of vertical clearance between shelves

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #12 on: 21 Jan 2013, 08:43 pm »
Hi-What are the dimensions of the LDR1 in inches? Want to make sure it would fit into my rack which has about 5" of vertical clearance between shelves

Hi,

6"  Wide
3 3/8" High (top of front panel is highest point)
8 3/4" Deep (including RCA jacks - nothing plugged in)

Plenty of vertical clearance.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Morten

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #13 on: 21 Apr 2013, 06:11 pm »
Check out the 6moons.com review of our LDR based passive preamp.  :thumb:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/tortuga/1.html

underdog64

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #14 on: 24 May 2013, 02:17 pm »
I know I mentioned it in a prior post but any chance you might reconsider offering a simple (1 input) tube buffer passive PRE with the LDR volume control? No other company is doing it yet as far as I know and  priced affordably might prove to be a very popular item.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #15 on: 6 Jun 2013, 09:39 pm »
I know I mentioned it in a prior post but any chance you might reconsider offering a simple (1 input) tube buffer passive PRE with the LDR volume control? No other company is doing it yet as far as I know and  priced affordably might prove to be a very popular item.

Apologies for the sloooowww response to your question.

Just finishing up moving and it's been a huge time-suck. Yes, we do have plans for coming out with a buffer product to compliment the LDRx Passive Pre product line. Whether we build the buffer into the passive pre or offer the buffer as a stand-alone product is something we've not decided. If you integrate a buffer (tube or solid state) into a passive pre it stops being passive and is now really an active preamp. Even with unity gain.

In terms of timing, we're focused on releasing our balanced passive preamp first and then will focus on a buffered version - all built around our LDRx attenuator/controller.

Cheers,

Morten
« Last Edit: 29 Aug 2013, 08:06 pm by tortugaranger »

tortugaranger

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LDR1 Passive Preamp Review
« Reply #16 on: 22 Oct 2013, 07:28 pm »
Audiophilia.com just published their review of our LDR1 Passive Preamp. I think the review characterized the essence of the LDR1 (and our LDR family of preamps generally) while avoiding offering much by way of personal opinions or comparisons. Just the facts ma'am.   

http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=12320

tortugaranger

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LDR1 Owner Speaks Out
« Reply #17 on: 24 Feb 2014, 12:13 pm »
Recent posting on Head-Fi.org by an LDR1 owner. Doesn't get much better than this. :thumb:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/691139/my-review-of-the-tortuga-audio-passive-preamp#post_10251881

"I have an LDR1 and it is fabulous.  Best preamp I ever owned at any price.   When I bought it I thought I would get super transparent sound at the cost of thinning things out. Usually, that is the price for transparency.  I took the risk anyway.   I was dead wrong.   The transparency is indeed the best I ever heard- but it is so full sounding- I can't believe my ears.   Now- warm and full are not the same.  It is not warm. It is truthful to the recording.  Regardless, it is that fullness and weight and supreme smoothness without sounding bloated and without giving up one iota of detail which makes this a world class product.  I doubt things could get more than 5% better at any price- even $100,000.  The LDR1 is the most perfect preamp I could ever imagine."

TrungT

Re: LDR1/LDR6 Passive Preamps
« Reply #18 on: 24 Feb 2014, 12:17 pm »
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


gregfisk

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Re: LDR1 Owner Speaks Out
« Reply #19 on: 24 Feb 2014, 08:29 pm »
Recent posting on Head-Fi.org by an LDR1 owner. Doesn't get much better than this. :thumb:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/691139/my-review-of-the-tortuga-audio-passive-preamp#post_10251881

"I have an LDR1 and it is fabulous.  Best preamp I ever owned at any price.   When I bought it I thought I would get super transparent sound at the cost of thinning things out. Usually, that is the price for transparency.  I took the risk anyway.   I was dead wrong.   The transparency is indeed the best I ever heard- but it is so full sounding- I can't believe my ears.   Now- warm and full are not the same.  It is not warm. It is truthful to the recording.  Regardless, it is that fullness and weight and supreme smoothness without sounding bloated and without giving up one iota of detail which makes this a world class product.  I doubt things could get more than 5% better at any price- even $100,000.  The LDR1 is the most perfect preamp I could ever imagine."

I could be wrong, but I think this guy might like the LDR1  :dunno: