AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: Kw6 on 3 Nov 2022, 05:38 am
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Hi everyone!
Between the 300b and El34 which tube drives the 845/805 tubes better?
Thanks!
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I prefer 6SN7-6SL7 + 6AU5GT in Triode as used by Kara Chafee.
The 300B/EL34 are power tubes that will demand more power from the Power Transformer than a usual small tube.
300B is a expensive tube, who started using 300B and 2A3
as drivers were the Chinese builders for marketing purposes because these both tubes are famous in China among audiofools.
Dont walk, run from a 845 or 805 amp unless its dirty cheap and you have a stock of American made NOS 805, forget 845.
There is no reason to buy expensive 211/845/805 Chinese commercial tubes or unobtainium USA NOS when you can get hi quality Russian Military tubes as GM70 at under $20usd/each>
http://www.gstube.com/catalog/?key=gm70&submit=Find
https://jacmusic.com/nos/GM70/
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Thanks again for your sage advice! So do you think a SEP El34 like Simply Italy has the same magic as those Line Magnetic 805/845 integrateds?☺️
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Not the same, different very different.
805 is a great sound tube with músclês.
Any link?
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Hi everyone!
Between the 300b and El34 which tube drives the 845/805 tubes better?
Thanks!
SET purists would say 300B. But it really depends on the amp in question. Needless to say, not all SET amplifiers are designed to use a DHT as a driver tube. My LM 218ia is a good example. This is an 845 based SET. Recommended drivers go from 6V6 thru KT88 and all tubes in between including the EL34 mentioned. I've had this amp for over 10 years and my favorite driver tubes are either the Genalex Gold Lion KT88 ( new reissue) or the Psvane KT88T MKII. This after trying just about all the driver tube possibilities mentioned.
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Ok thanks Mick for sharing your experience with Line Magnetic! I thought big Triode amps being so hot would destroy internals prematurely vs say El34 push pull! ☺️
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Not the same, different very different.
805 is a great sound tube with músclês.
Any link?
I don't know how to upload link but it's the review from Christiaan Punter from HiFi Advice. He liked the Line Magnetic 845 Premium the most then 805ia and then 845ia. Would you agree 805 is a warmer smoother tube than 845 in general?
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Yes NOS 805 have a addictive more harmonically rich sound than 845, what works well even with inexpensive old-fashioned EI OPTs.
Just found this:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/mr-liang845.html
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Ok thanks Mick for sharing your experience with Line Magnetic! I thought big Triode amps being so hot would destroy internals prematurely vs say El34 push pull! ☺️
You're welcome. Just make sure the amp is set up in a well ventilated open space. I even use a small, quiet cooling fan in the summer months. This sits behind the amp. Same rules apply for my P-P tube amps. I'd probably be more concerned about the longevity of internals if I were running a pure class A solid state amp.
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There is significant, but your question makes little sense. My question would be; how well designed. How well executed. I have heard very good of each. And bad of each. Best & worst had 300b.
Noteworthy that anyone doing an 845 or 211 is probably better at both design and execution due to the lethal voltages
dave
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Fullrangeman,
I haven't heard the line magnet yet but I keep going back to my Cayin cs-55a El34 in Triode mode. I recently audition the 300b Cayin.I still prefer the El-34. So if I like El34 will I get further sonic gains by going to a Reisong A12 which is SET 6 watts vs my psuedo Triode mode at 18 watts?
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I could stay with the current 18W amp.
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I don't know how to upload link but it's the review from Christiaan Punter from HiFi Advice. He liked the Line Magnetic 845 Premium the most then 805ia and then 845ia. Would you agree 805 is a warmer smoother tube than 845 in general?
First off and unless I missed it, what speaker are you trying to drive? Next the usual suspects...How big is your room? How loud do you listen? What type of music do you listen to? Your budget?
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There is significant, but your question makes little sense. My question would be; how well designed. How well executed. I have heard very good of each. And bad of each. Best & worst had 300b.
Noteworthy that anyone doing an 845 or 211 is probably better at both design and execution due to the lethal voltages
dave
That makes sense Dave!
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You're welcome. Just make sure the amp is set up in a well ventilated open space. I even use a small, quiet cooling fan in the summer months. This sits behind the amp. Same rules apply for my P-P tube amps. I'd probably be more concerned about the longevity of internals if I were running a pure class A solid state amp.
I have to audition amp. Just today went to dealer to listen to the Luxman MQ-88uC just to see how far apart sound from my amp. The Harbeth Shl5+ was used with Luxman cd player, preamp then the MQ-88UC. sounded ok nothing spectacular. Last time we went from cd player direct into tube amp but speaker was the Harbeth P3ESR original version. More of the tonal richness I heard from Luxman came from the speaker too. But the Jadis orchestra black didn't sound as good as the Luxman with P3ESR. But today definitely no magic.
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First off and unless I missed it, what speaker are you trying to drive? Next the usual suspects...How big is your room? How loud do you listen? What type of music do you listen to? Your budget?
Klipsch Forte IVs, 12x30x9 living space. Currently my favorite is the Cayin cs-55a El34 in Triode mode 18watts. Want to try a SET 845 like Fullrangeman. Or Simply Italy SEP. What I don't like about the 845 is the heat and longevity of amp. But Fullrangeman has ow Ed LM for 10 years so that makes me happy and at ease.
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I run a 6c33, Mick Wolfe own a LM 845.
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Klipsch Forte IVs, 12x30x9 living space. Currently my favorite is the Cayin cs-55a El34 in Triode mode 18watts. Want to try a SET 845 like Fullrangeman. Or Simply Italy SEP. What I don't like about the 845 is the heat and longevity of amp. But Fullrangeman has ow Ed LM for 10 years so that makes me happy and at ease.
OK, now the picture is a little more clear. If the Cayin in triode is getting it done at 18 watts, I wouldn't consider anything with less power. (like the Simply Italy SEP you've mentioned) In my experience, an 845 based SET putting out roughly 22 watts will sound "subjectively" as strong as the Cayin in full ultralinear. Maybe even a bit stronger. But as a plus, you will get a strong dose of SET magic. In a perfect world, I would still keep the Cayin even if you decide to buy an 845 based amp or similar. Rotate the amps to minimize wear and tear. The Cayin for more casual everyday listening, the 845 ( or similar ) for your more serious listening sessions.
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Ok thanks Mick! I will post again when I have had a chance to listen to the LM 845ia! ☺️
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I run a 6c33, Mick Wolfe own a LM 845.
Yes I always had a fascination with the 6c33c! I heard only the BAT audio never a SET 6c33c. Someone once told me the Lamm SET using those tubes were the best amps in the world. He played in an orchestra.
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Hi Mick,
What speakers do you use with your LM 845?
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First off, room size is only 10x11. So the speakers used will reflect that. Ohm 1000's, GR NX Studio Monitors and the most efficient of the three, Klipsch 600M. With that said, I have no doubt that the 218ia could easily drive the speakers I currently have in my larger room,( roughly the size of the room you mention) These would be either Klipsch Heresy 3's or Zu Omen DW's.
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Ok cool Mick. I'm not sure now if I want to invest the big LM. I'm leaning towards Simply Italy which is suppose to be magic combo with Klipsch Heritage speakers.
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It all boils down the what you listen to and how loud you listen. I don't know if the Simply Italy would be any more satisfying than your current triode configured Cayin. Now if an audition with return option is offered, sure why not. One thing is for certain, it (Simply Italy) will never deliver the slam and weight of an 845. This of course only matters if that's one of your priorities.
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With big Triodes would be suited to you live in a cold area, big Triodes as 845 produces about 80W of heat each, only the tube, the heat generated by the amp must be taken into account, I cant turn on my amp all the summer long in that small room.
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Great point you guys! Can one of you explain to me how a SEP is configured vs a two tube per channel put in Triode mode?
Btw how many heat watts do two El34 put out per side!
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SEP or single ended pentode use the two grid/screen to make more output power than the Triode mode(cathode, grid, anode), SEP are a interesting option to a SE amp, many amps having a Triode/Pentode switch, just avoid UltraLinear.
Two tubes per channel seems to be PushPull/Class B by what you say.
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Ok thanks! Yes my Cayin uses two El34 per channel. I never listening ultralinear mode always triode. But is my 18 watts sound as sweet as a one El34 tube per channel configured as SET which will either be 6 watts triode or 12 watts SEP?
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But is my 18 watts sound as sweet as a one El34 tube per channel configured as SET which will either be 6 watts triode or 12 watts SEP?
If your PP 18W amp are so sweet as you said it dont worth to change for a 6W SET a SET 845, your amp is already paid, already tested and broken-in and allows you to use low sensitivity speakers since 90dB. IMO.
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Ok thanks! I will just go listen to a LM 845ia to see what I think. Appreciate all the helpful thoughts!🙂
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Hey guys anyone have any experience with Decware Junior Tori 34 integrated? What is there house sound?
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... any experience with Decware Junior Tori 34 integrated?
My only, indirect, experience is that a client had to have his, and his other Decware, completely rebuilt due to original issues with quality of execution.
dave
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Myself i do not really favor tubes.
Although i must admit to quite enjoying both the LM 845 & LM 518. Nice amps IMO
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My only, indirect, experience is that a client had to have his, and his other Decware, completely rebuilt due to original issues with quality of execution.
dave
That is really strange as I would have thought Seve was a tube pro designer and builder!
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Myself i do not really favor tubes.
Although i must admit to quite enjoying both the LM 845 & LM 518. Nice amps IMO
My dealer has the LM 845 in I will go have a listen and report back!
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An 845 amp can use the GM70 tube if the builder use the 4 pin socket and an 20V heater, certainly LM can do a GM70 amp to you to you get rid of the expensive 845 tube, just an idea.
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Thanks Fullrangeman!
I would need email Line Magnetic to ask if GM70 is a drop in for their amp.
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Thanks Fullrangeman!
I would need email Line Magnetic to ask if GM70 is a drop in for their amp.
https://www.lm-audio.com/en/lianxifangshi-a129.html
Tel: (+86) 756-3911922 Fax: (+86) 756-3911933
E-mail: market@lm-audio.com(Chinese)
Markteting Represetative: Mr Xie（+86 13926936828）
If LM refuse to built a custom amp to you try Ming-Da
they have a extensive range of big Triodes and accept
customs orders, the contact was Ms.Suena.
http://www.mei-xing.com/english/English/index.html
E-MAIL：sales@mei-xing.com
They made a 845 monoblock power amp 25W, 29kg/each that are suited to be mod to Integrated by just adding a volume control.
http://www.mei-xing.com/english/English/cp/845-C%2020TH.html
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Hey guys how many hrs does a typical 845 last for?
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Thanks for information Fullrangeman!
I had a listen to the LM 845ia yesterday.
I may need to go back. Artist tracks was from Ann Bisson vinyl and digital. Amp sounded very warm on vinyl. Digital sounded like digital. Well the amp did not sound slow. I think I detected a slight warmth in mids using streaming. Did not sound like Cary 805 driven by Hovland HP100 on Proacs. I will go back next week. I got side tracked as was curious to hear their Constellation pre power with Magic A5. That system used Aurrender all in one. The Berkeley dac was missing a board.
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Hey guys how many hrs does a typical 845 last for?
Typical are NOS made in USA or Chinese?
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Let's say Chinese 845? Btw since a 805 tube produces more watts on an amp does that mean the 805 tube gets way hotter than 845?
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A single 805 dissipates 125 watts, and a single 845 dissipates 75 watts. Multiply by the number of tubes in the amplifier for a total wattage, but yes, more heat from the 805.
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Hey guys how many hrs does a typical 845 last for?
Let's say Chinese 845?
Dont know how many hours Chinese commercial tubes are lasting today, but builder Kevinkr at DIY Audio posted his GM70 graphite plate tubes were lasting 1700/2000 hours in his hi power SET amp without softstart.
Btw since a 805 tube produces more watts on an amp does that mean the 805 tube gets way hotter than 845?
GM70 and 805 delivery 125W plate dissipation, 845 RCA max plate dissipation are 100W and 845C only 75W, tube temperature will depend on the room temperature, but if you live in Canada its not a prob.
https://frank.yueksel.org/sheets/049/8/845.pdf
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Ok thanks guys for that information!