AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: Ryder35 on 29 Jan 2017, 02:15 pm
-
Hi
I am looking to demo some Bryston amps to replace my Devialet 400s. Reading up I notice that the B135 uses the internals from the BP17 and the 2.5 cubed. Is this correct? If so what makes the separates worth going for. There is a big price difference (over £2k in the UK) do they really sound the same?
Thanks in advance for any advice
-
Hi
I am looking to demo some Bryston amps to replace my Devialet 400s. Reading up I notice that the B135 uses the internals from the BP17 and the 2.5 cubed. Is this correct? If so what makes the separates worth going for. There is a big price difference (over £2k in the UK) do they really sound the same?
Thanks in advance for any advice
Hi Ryder
Yes the B135 is in fact a BP17 and a 2.5 Cubed (as long as its a new version of the B135). So separates just gives you more flexibility now and in the future if you want to make changes.
james
-
Hi
I am looking to demo some Bryston amps to replace my Devialet 400s. Reading up I notice that the B135 uses the internals from the BP17 and the 2.5 cubed. Is this correct? If so what makes the separates worth going for. There is a big price difference (over £2k in the UK) do they really sound the same?
Thanks in advance for any advice
What speakers are you using, how big is your room and what volume do you like to listen at? As a general rule more power from the same brand of amp generally means higher SPL's rather than a difference in SQ.
-
Hi Thanks for the replies!
James, you may have just saved me £2k to spend on a DAC! Witchdoctor I am running Sopra No2 speakes in a room about 15x15 feet and usually don't listen too loud. I ran a Naim NAP 250 just fine to give some perspective.
-
If the power output of an integrated is sufficient for the speakers and room, then the fact that the preamp and power amp are not physically isolated in metal enclosures is more than offset by the direct connection between them versus multiple plug/jack interfaces and the effects interconnect cables can have on the sound.
Plus minimizing and downsizing the number of components is very often a cleansing and refreshing lifestyle experience.
Steve
-
Hi Thanks for the replies!
James, you may have just saved me £2k to spend on a DAC! Witchdoctor I am running Sopra No2 speakes in a room about 15x15 feet and usually don't listen too loud. I ran a Naim NAP 250 just fine to give some perspective.
These speakers have a 91db sensitivity so although they are large shouldn't require a lot of power to drive to satisfying levels. I think you will be very happy with whatever amp you choose, might as well save the $$$. What I would consider for both your amps and your speakers is proper vibration control. You might want to check out Herbie's circle here on audiocircle.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=160.0
-
James, you may have just saved me £2k to spend on a DAC! Witchdoctor I am running Sopra No2 speakes in a room about 15x15 feet and usually don't listen too loud. I ran a Naim NAP 250 just fine to give some perspective.
I'm running a B135 SST2 into a pair of Mini T's, which you may or may not know are in the 80s range for sensitivity and a 4 ohm load. To hit 80-85dB in my 13'x20' room (speakers on long wall), I'm usually between the 11-1 o'clock position on the B135 volume depending on the source (CD or high output MC into the internal MM phono).
-
Hi All, are there some pictures of the new 135cubed?
I can only find pictures of the previous version, on Bryston website they say it will be available soon
-
So I borrowed a BP26 (that was all they had) and a 2.5 cubed from my dealer. Wow, I am staggered how good it sounds after 3 hours of listening. So much more detail that my devialet and much more involving. I love it! My question is, how much of a downgrade will the pre amp section in the 135 be? If it is in any way close I think I will be very happy. Seems like Bryston are one of the best kept secrets in the UK
-
My question is, how much of a downgrade will the pre amp section in the 135 be?
None. As James stated previously, the preamp section is the BP-17.
-
Sorry SRB; just edited my post...it is a BP26
-
Just to add I am only using the RCA unbalanced inputs
-
So I borrowed a BP26 (that was all they had) and a 2.5 cubed from my dealer. Wow, I am staggered how good it sounds after 3 hours of listening. So much more detail that my devialet and much more involving. I love it! My question is, how much of a downgrade will the pre amp section in the 135 be? If it is in any way close I think I will be very happy. Seems like Bryston are one of the best kept secrets in the UK
that's a good question. it would be interesting to compare the new B135cubed with a combo 2.5cubed plus BP26 pre amp.
-
Btw, did anyone tried the new B135cubed? I can't find much comments on the net, neither reviews
-
Btw, did anyone tried the new B135cubed? I can't find much comments on the net, neither reviews
Seems to be the unloved product in the line up as far as reviews go. ;)
My Consumerist conditioned brain finds it hard to believe that an integrated costing £2k less than the equivalent Separates can sound the same but I am willing to believe!
Would still like to know how the BP17 and 26 stack up though.
-
Seems to be the unloved product in the line up as far as reviews go. ;)
My Consumerist conditioned brain finds it hard to believe that an integrated costing £2k less than the equivalent Separates can sound the same but I am willing to believe!
Would still like to know how the BP17 and 26 stack up though.
you're right
with regard to the pre amps, I believe the main difference between BP17 and BP26 is the BP26's external power supply... I might be wrong anyway
-
I believe the BP17 uses the same circuit topology/tech as their SP3 processor. I don't think the BP26 has that -- being an older model.
-
Also, I believe B135cubed does not have balanced inputs while with a separate pre amp has
in the end, the combo BP17 + 2.5cubed gives you just more flexibility if you want to upgrade in the future and balanced connections compared to B135cubed, which costs about 2k less.
Please correct me if my assumption is wrong
Cheers
-
^ True about bal in BP17 -- that's a fine preamp.
I think B135 still converts SE inputs to a "balanced" output -- just not a "true" differential balanced output (?) like with BP17 + bal input signals. (interestingly, BHA-1 converts SE input signals to balanced diff outputs at the headphone XLR jacks).
-
not always...yes more flexibility for the future with separates. A pre power combo in my young experience has always sounded better than a integrated when compared. On the flip side you have more boxes and they cost more, that's where sound per pound comes in play.
-
not always...yes more flexibility for the future with separates. A pre power combo in my young experience has always sounded better than a integrated when compared. On the flip side you have more boxes and they cost more, that's where sound per pound comes in play.
Interesting isn't it? James is the first industry insider to admit that their pre and power sounds the same as the integrated and he should know. As for flexibility this worried me initially until I realised that the cost to change (assuming a £2k trad in for a used 2.5b cubed would be the same (I would just save the £2k now and lose it if I then added a 4b without trade in as I would need to keep the 135 as a pre)
Anyway I have ordered a 135 plus chord 2Qute DAC and Rega Aria Phono stage to replace my Devialet 400s. Can't wait!
-
I wont get into a pissing match but many many times Ive heard from the company reps the BDA-2 sounds the same as the BDA-3 with less features. Not true the BDA-3 is a better unit and defiantly has a more organic sound to it. Ill leave that as is
-
I wont get into a pissing match but many many times Ive heard from the company reps the BDA-2 sounds the same as the BDA-3 with less features. Not true the BDA-3 is a better unit and defiantly has a more organic sound to it. Ill leave that as is
Hi Mike
Hope the factory rep was not me :duh: - The BDA3 uses a completely different DAC.
james
-
Was not you.
I would never throw anyone under the bus from this company ever. Bryston staff have been nothing but a pleasure to deal with and Im still tickled how amazing my BP26, 2.5 cubed, BDA-3 and Pi combo sounds.
-
Anyway I have ordered a 135 plus chord 2Qute DAC and Rega Aria Phono stage to replace my Devialet 400s. Can't wait!
Just so you know, the MM card in the 135 is plenty good if you're limiting yourself to MM or HOMC.
-
Just so you know, the MM card in the 135 is plenty good if you're limiting yourself to MM or HOMC.
Thanks for the advice. The Aria is a known quantity to me so I will stick with that. MM at the moment but who knows when the upgrade bug will bite again!
-
Ryder let us know your impressions when your new B135cubed will arrive
-
Hi James,
can I ask you the when pictures of B135cubed and its manual will be available on Bryston's website?
Do you think that the new version of B135 (the cubed one) is a remarkable update compared to the "old" B135?
Have a nice day!
-
Hi James,
can I ask you the when pictures of B135cubed and its manual will be available on Bryston's website?
Do you think that the new version of B135 (the cubed one) is a remarkable update compared to the "old" B135?
Have a nice day!
Hi Grant
Should be soon.
james
-
Hi Grant
Here's a shot for you:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157333)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157334)
james
-
Here's a shot for you:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157333)
Very nice looking, I like the flat face plate and the placement of the logo in the center.
James, I know the squared series amps aren't upgradable to the cubed. I assume the same is true for the B135 squared?
-
Hi Grant
Here's a shot for you:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157333)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157334)
james
Many thanks!!
-
Very nice looking, I like the flat face plate and the placement of the logo in the center.
James, I know the squared series amps aren't upgradable to the cubed. I assume the same is true for the B135 squared?
Yes - same issues so no upgrade path.
james
-
James, at what serial number did the B135 begin having the cubed amp section?
-
James, at what serial number did the B135 begin having the cubed amp section?
Hi
Not sure on that - will have to check
james
-
James, at what serial number did the B135 begin having the cubed amp section?
HI
New serial # sequence. Started at 001.
james
-
Hi,
as James promised, the pictures of B135cubed are now online http://www.bryston.com/products/power_amps/B135-3.html
:D
-
Now only the manual is missing :wink:
-
Quick update
Got the amp home on Wednesday and all set up. Sounding good. Today however I noticed that after about an hour of use the amp was getting quite hot. I had it plugged directly into the mains which can run at up to 250-260v on a bad day so turned off and plugged it into my mains regenerator that puts out a nice constant 230v. Left it for 5 mins and then hit the on button. Lights flashed and...pop all lights on the amp went out. Blown fuse on the back of the unit. Of course it was too late to find one locally but have now found a local shop with stock of the requiered fuses so will pick a pack up tomorrow.
Any thought on why the fuse blew and should I be worried?
-
Any thought on why the fuse blew and should I be worried?
Maybe the power regenerator is constant but not that nice? ;)
The next questions would be what are the power regenerator, speaker load and speaker cables?
Edit: Ryder35 Reply #4 indicates Focal Sopra No2 speakers
Nice speakers! At 91dB sensitivity and 8Ω nominal / 3.1Ω minimum impedance should be a reasonable load for the B135.
Steve
-
Thanks for the reply. The generator is the Power inspired 1500, generally quite well regarded but who knows! I am picking up a pack of 10 fuses tomorrow so will be able to experiment. Not too bothered about the one off (though it is a bit annoying on new kit) as long as it is not a frequent occurrence.
-
Thanks for the reply. The generator is the Power inspired 1500, generally quite well regarded but who knows! I am picking up a pack of 10 fuses tomorrow so will be able to experiment. Not too bothered about the one off (though it is a bit annoying on new kit) as long as it is not a frequent occurrence.
Please email Mike at mpickett@bryston.com
james
-
Just a quick update. Changed out the fuse and everything seems to be working fine at them moment :)
-
Hi Ryder,
how is the B135 doing so far? comparison with pre + 2.5cubed power amp?
Cheers
-
Sound quality wise it is superb! Maybe a bit smoother/less defined at the bottom end than the BP26 and 2.5 cubed, but very little in it. Seems to need to be on a higher position on the volume knob... BP26 was typically between 25-40% this is between 35-50 depending on source. (listening at about 75db.
I am using a different DAC and phono stage so direct comparisons are hard but overall I am happy.
My only concern is how warm the front plate is getting (not too hot to touch but certainly quite warm) Is this normal James?
-
Sound quality wise it is superb! Maybe a bit smoother/less defined at the bottom end than the BP26 and 2.5 cubed, but very little in it. Seems to need to be on a higher position on the volume knob... BP26 was typically between 25-40% this is between 35-50 depending on source. (listening at about 75db.
I am using a different DAC and phono stage so direct comparisons are hard but overall I am happy.
My only concern is how warm the front plate is getting (not too hot to touch but certainly quite warm) Is this normal James?
Hi
Yes that is normal - the front plate is part of the heat-sinking.
james
-
Thanks James, that is a relief. I assume driving my Focal sopras (91db) 50% volume on vinyl is normal for about 75=78db in a 15x15 room? I am used to amps never needing to be turned above 40%. having said that a more progressive volume control is much easier to make adjustments too.
-
Thanks for your feedback Ryder , glad you're enjoying it :thumb:
-
Thanks James, that is a relief. I assume driving my Focal sopras (91db) 50% volume on vinyl is normal for about 75=78db in a 15x15 room? I am used to amps never needing to be turned above 40%. having said that a more progressive volume control is much easier to make adjustments too.
My setting is between 12 and 1 o'clock using the internal MM phono stage on the B135 driving the Mini T's to 70-80 dB, if that's of any help. I wouldn't say it's out of line. I forget, does the Rega Aria have adjustable gain?
-
Im intrigued by this topic. I was on the fence with the B135 VS the pre power combo. I have been always told and heard to a degree separates sounding better in a comparison to a integrated amp. BP26 and 2.5(3) is what I own but Im very happy with this combo
-
I wont get into a pissing match but many many times Ive heard from the company reps the BDA-2 sounds the same as the BDA-3 with less features. Not true the BDA-3 is a better unit and defiantly has a more organic sound to it. Ill leave that as is
I was just at someone's place where we compared the BDA-2 to the BDA-3, and the 4BSST to the 2.5B3. Clear significant differences in the sound between both the two DACs and the two amps.
-
I was just at someone's place where we compared the BDA-2 to the BDA-3, and the 4BSST to the 2.5B3. Clear significant differences in the sound between both the two DACs and the two amps.
Interesting Neko - how would you describe the differences?
james
-
Which of the amps did you perfer? More power or the new design
-
I'm also very curious what differences you ear between the 4B and the 2.5B. Are the 4B the cube version???
What speakers does your friend have.
-
Apologies for the long delay in my reply.
Between the BDA-2 and BDA-3, the BDA-2 provides a warmer sound with less separation between notes. The BDA-3 is cleaner, more accurate, and more neutral but as a result drier to the ear. My personal preference would be the BDA-3, however his preference is the BDA-2. I was also expecting some differences in the soundstage, from my experience comparing the BDA-3 to other DACs. However I did not hear that at his place. But his room is more typical of what you'd find in a nicer home, whereas I have a heavily treated dedicated listening area, so that may have played a role.
Between the 4BSST (not Cubed) and 2.5B3 (Cubed), there was a similar sort of difference but the change along the "warmth" dimension was not as large. The 2.5B3 had much better detail retrieval and a more neutral and realistic presentation. I think the key is more realistic. We both preferred the 2.5B3.
In each scenario we used only one of the newer components. So it was either BDA-2 or BDA-3 with the 4BSST, or the BDA-2 with the 4BSST or 2.5B3.
I can't recall off the top of my head which speakers he had. It was a traditional dynamic speaker with a spec'd minimum impedance of 4 ohms, but higher than normal sensitivity, IIRC.
-
^ This is what I find with my BDA-1 -- a touch of warmth. Not colored in any way, but compared to a DAC like Cambridge Audio, it's very musical and gets out of the way of the recording.