AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: FullRangeMan on 15 Nov 2013, 11:01 pm
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Post here everything to it happen, especially pressure on manufacturers, info related on good/bad headphones, opinions etc;
Thanks
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Headphones always been here, but in the latest years there has been a significant increase of popularity among audio enthusiasts. Headphone rigs and computer audio is the new generation.
Most popular Hifi manufacturers are introducing headphone amps/dac's and headphones.
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Even Oppo Digital is getting on the headphone bandwagon.....with both high end cans and an amp!
Alex
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If Oppo headphones and amplifier is any indication of their BluRay players and other products bring them to the party.
http://www.oppodigital.com/future/
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The future of Hi-end audio, NO. Headphones having their own hi-end realm within the audio world, YES, and already there.
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Not my future. I can listen comfortably about an hour on headphones then I have to switch to speakers.
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Not my future. I can listen comfortably about an hour on headphones then I have to switch to speakers.
That's how I was when I first started up with headphones. And there are still some that I can't tolerate for long...but thankfully others that almost allow me to feel MORE comfortable when they're on vs when they're not haha.
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I get the impression that the majority of head phone sales are to people in their teens to perhaps their 30s who are more mobile and probably live in apartments.
When they settle down and get places of their own I'd think that the ones who stick with audio will go with stereo systems to compliment their existing headphone set ups.
I've always had both and each type (headphones and speakers) certainly have their appeal.
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Bingoroonie
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The reason I got headphones was because I wanted to see for myself how good this technology has advanced.....I never thought I would enjoy them as much as my main 2 ch setup...but to my surprise I wound up with 6 sets and many hours of really enjoying music and the sound.
Yes they are not like my floor standing speakers....but they are really very very good in their own right...
Alex
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A bigger part than in the past, given the huge increase in portable, headphone oriented devices, but not "the" future.
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Back in 1961 when I was 17 years old and newly into audio, I acquired my first system which included a Thorens TD124 turntable, a Kenwood tube receiver, and a pair of AKG headphones (all acquired used in a swap). It opened my ears and mind to recorded music and high end audio. When I could afford speakers, I added them. Over the years, many better speakers followed and are still my preference. Today, I own the finest electrostatic speakers that exist. I would never choose head phones over speakers unless conditions necessitated it. Nonetheless, headphones played a major roll in my journey. There are reasons to believe this will also happen with the coming generations.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90026)
BTW, I love my iPod/Shure E5 canal phones combo for on the trail, air travel etc.
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oh man, I never get tired of looking at those SoundLabs...I want to hear them!!!
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This shop retail the LCD3 for 2,880 brand new, but appear a third partie novice vendor offer it for $5K!!
Oh come on...
http://www.amazon.com/Audeze-Lcd-3/dp/B00BF9G34M/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1384705017&sr=1-1&keywords=audeze+lcd3
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As you said a over $1K phones looks cheap.
This your post in other topic also impress me much.
How I will find if I prefer the Jacuzzi or the phones is a problem. :scratch:
Headphones have the best sound because it's right off the amp - no room smearing of highs, no room smearing of bass, etc. The loudspeaker experience isn't so much about audio anyway, it's about getting the sonic equivalent of a jacuzzi experience. Let those who want to experience the 'feel' of music enjoy what they like - who cares anyway? The world is passing those people by.
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A 1k set of headphones equals 10k of speaker. Headphones are a bargain equal to none.
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If you aren't bothered by the different "sound staging" from cans (some are, some aren't, I'm not) (another big thread on that), then the lower distortion and freedom from room and crossover artifacts pays off big time in SQ. I have heard loudspeakers more than 10 times what my HD650s cost that couldn't touch them. So whatever the "multiplier" would be, I agree that cans use your audio dollar much more efficiently than speakers, and also "keep the peace" when housemates don't want to listen to the same thing you do.
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You guys are convincing me. :o
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A plus for cans... I've found headphones to much more forgiving on bad source material. Where my Axiom "revealing" loudspeakers can sound like a pair of old Sound Designs on some recordings, my Beyers and Senns typically abate those rough edges and harshness. I can't explain how they do it. Cans are personal, rewarding and enjoyable. I don't see them dethroning the 2C crowd but mfgr's have in their sights growth in this market and exploitation is well underway.
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While I'll always favor my main rig I've always owned good cans. Hell, I'm listening to my 10 yr old Sennheiser HD600's as I type (Chucho Valdes - Border Free - amazing record!). But recently I've dived head 1st into quality portable audio! Got a set of UE TF10 IEM's, bought a custom made HPL cable for them, a new 160 GB Ipod classic, a Fiio E12 portable amp (thing's amazing, makes the IEM's sing AND easily drives the HD600's!), plus a Fiio L9 LOD (bypasses the Ipod's amp/dac, it's essential!;). I've even become a regular over at Head-fi! I'll admit to doing the majority of my listening thru my new toys this past month! But knowing myself, I know this is just a phase! Tellyawhat, the enthusiasm and activity over at Head-fi is infectious! It very well may be the future of the hobby!
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Whatever you do, do NOT take that electrostatic headphone into the jacuzzi.
Good advice. Planar magnetics would be a better choice there :roll:
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I guess they'll be my future since I'll probably end up in assisted living :bawl:
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Whatever you do, do NOT take that electrostatic headphone into the jacuzzi.
:lol: :lol:Noted thanks, a good one.
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I guess they'll be my future since I'll probably end up in assisted living :bawl:
Hope it dont happen, I fell much better now after afew weeks drinking green tea in sunstitution of water.
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NO! My stax electrostatics as good as they are do not equal our Pipedreams or GTAudio works planars. A testing tool fine playback just misses the movement of air and the feel of live music.
charles
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feel of live music isn't a proper definition of high fidelity.
Yup, I past afew decades believing real live music are the true reference for HiFi in a room.
This happen bacause I read this silly adagio on TAS magazine coined by HP himself. :duh:
Hifi music is a beautiful, romantic or even harsh(if one like rough rock) playback of a recording in a room, this had nothing to do with live music in a stage, unless it is a concert hall with celestial acoustics.
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dalethorn, Here are a couple of links to information on techniques for accurately reproducing low bass in the home environment. You may find this information interesting.
Controlled Acoustic Bass System(CABS)
http://vbn.aau.dk/files/12831869/AC-phd.pdf
Double Bass Array
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/8/1485263/tmt2002_eng.pdf
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=837744
There also the SWARM approach proposed by Duke Lejune which can yield even acoustic bass energy in the room.
I use a modified CABS approach in my system and have flat response at the listening position to 16Hz with no more than a 3dB plus or minus deviation from flat between 95Hz and 16Hz.
Listening to recordings of organ music made at the Washington National Cathedral is quite satisfying and is a good reality check as I have heard live performances on this organ.
The same recordings reproduced via headphones are missing a proper reproduction of the acoustic space in the cathedral that is illuminated by the bass energy from the organ. While I occasionally enjoy listening to music via headphones the dichotomy between what bass sounds like on a live basis and what it sounds like when it is reproduced by headphones defines my problem with substituting headphones for a speaker system on a continuing basis.
While I don't think headphones are necessarily the only future of Hi-End Audio they will certainly be a part of its future.
Scotty
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I have always wanted to go to a live acoustic concert with a few people, who have a control box where they can tweak the bass and treble, just to see what they would do.
I know what I'd do, and I'd bet most people would, is turn the volume down a notch or two!;)
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I use a pair of Audio Technica ATH-7 back-electret headphones with a NAD3020 and more recently a DIY Tripath amp I built based on the Tripath Eval board available for brief time about 9years ago. The phones have to be driven directly by a power amp which makes them a pain in the ass to use in a system that is not dedicated to phones only. I still have the phones I just don't use them much. I live in a condo building that was purpose built with double isolating walls between the condos and of course a concrete floor and ceiling. Surprisingly low amounts of bass energy actually escape the condo. I also seldom playback organ music at near live SPLs. When I do it is only during the daytime when the people in neighboring condos are at work.
Scotty
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Dale you have described my dislike of the headphone experience precisely. It doesn't present the musical spectrum the way the live experience does, in the air and impacting your body. With this part of the experience missing, I have a hard time warming up to the phones as a replacement for listening via loudspeakers. The helpful thing about listening to music with loudspeakers is that if the reflections are seperated far enough in time from the first arrival sound our brain doesn't perceive any smearing unlike differences you hear between the IEM vs the over the ear phones.
Scotty
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Dale you have described my dislike of the headphone experience precisely. It doesn't present the musical spectrum the way the live experience does, in the air and impacting your body.
This does neither good nor bad, the personal taste will tell.
Every live music event are different each other too.
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This does neither good nor bad, the personal taste will tell.
Every live music event are different each other too.
Right. Scotty's criticisms are valid- but there are also ways in which speakers fall sort in comparison to headphones. It just depends- on the listener, on the music, on the equipment, and many other factors. If I like the music, I'll listen to it on almost anything. But as dalethorn pointed out awhile back, a headphone dollar buys a lot more "fi" (in certain ways) than a speaker dollar, meaning "high end" SQ is more approachable for (let's say) the college grad in a tiny apartment who doesn't have jack and also doesn't want to piss off his neighbors while he "feels" the music.
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I do see the point dale- a better place to argue the pros and cons would be the Soundstage thread, where I don't have an issue with anyone saying they like or dislike the "soundstage" from headphones- the thread invites that discussion.
I'm not sure what the intention of the original question was exactly, and reaffirm my opinion that headphones might be increasingly an entry point to high end audio (a term I despise) due to their generally more accessible prices if nothing else.
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For the first 5 years of my audiophile life, it was walkman and discman based with me buying the most expensive ear buds at the time which were Sony Fonotopia's which were about $50 a pair at the time. Price of earbuds or In Ear Monitors have certainly skyrocketed since.
Two channel is a luxury not just in terms of space and money but also in terms of storage. I simply don't have room for two channel floor standers nor the closet space for spare speakers, amps and cables. Have since sold my analog, my floor standers and most source equipment (as I've gone computer).
I've recently started dabbling with headphones again. Price on portable asynch hi res DACs are dropping quickly. Just picked up an Audioengine D3 based on Dale's reviews and am using them with a pair of JVC HFXT90 and got a few more pairs of headphones coming. Love the versatility of being able to use the headphones not only at home but also at work perfect for "isolating" my cubicle neighbor's annoying phone voice.
Home 2 channel will always be my first love, but it's a labor of love to get sound that is to die for. I simply don't have the space or time for that anymore. Instead, I am spending my time reading those 1000+ page threads on headfi.
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Headphones will always have a stake in Hi-End Audio just as they presently do and it will probably get bigger.
Will they be THE future, NA.
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If you aren't bothered by the different "sound staging" from cans (some are, some aren't, I'm not) (another big thread on that), then the lower distortion and freedom from room and crossover artifacts pays off big time in SQ. I have heard loudspeakers more than 10 times what my HD650s cost that couldn't touch them. So whatever the "multiplier" would be, I agree that cans use your audio dollar much more efficiently than speakers, and also "keep the peace" when housemates don't want to listen to the same thing you do.
So very true.
I have been at homes with very expensive speaker sets but placed in a room with very bad acoustics.
With good headphones you don't have to worry.
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So very true.
I have been at homes with very expensive speaker sets but placed in a room with very bad acoustics.
In the Pictures section, you can find many examples of exactly this.
With good headphones you don't have to worry.
Exactly. Square room? Live room? Boom room? Who cares!
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Many years ago a major audio magazine surveyed several speaker mfrs asking them what's the best speaker for a given room, or what room would be best for their speakers. And while all but one responded with speaker/room suggestions, Roy Allison of AR said "A good speaker is a good speaker in an auditorium or broom closet."
Interesting story.
Happened to me some times and I also have seen it in loco that a individual audiophile try to inquire tech info or prices these dealers behave like enraged bulls in an arena and take it as a personal offense.
But when who send email is a audio mag or company the
treatment is first class and the courtesies abound.
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For acoustic concerts you shouldn't have to reduce the volume. I wouldn't likely go to an acoustic concert just to hear it played over a wall of amps and speakers. Kind of defeats the purpose.
Maybe take some golden ears people for a blind test between a DSD recording and a live band would be very surprising.