AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Daedalus Audio => Topic started by: advanced101 on 11 Apr 2017, 12:34 am

Title: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 11 Apr 2017, 12:34 am
I told Lou I would post my thoughts after the speakers settled in.  My speakers are the Orpheus with the Duelund/ Mundorf Upgrade in the highly figured walnut.  My previous speakers were the B&W 800D2.

Associated equipment: Koetsu Blue Lace- Ikeda 407- VPI Avenger- Hashimoto HM7 SUT- ANK L3 Phono (Waiting for an L5)- Line Magnetic 219ia.  Fully treated dedicated GIK room.

I was looking to move on from my 800D2s after a couple years of ownership.  In short they were very detailed and thunderous speakers but a bit fatiguing.  I tried a few different front ends but listener fatigue always crept in after an hour.

The Orpheus are fantastic.  Detailed and natural, almost sweet and work great with my SET amp.  They equal or better the B&Ws in everything but bass.  The 800s do have two 10" drivers, so this is to be expected.  The bass is still musical and plentiful for music but lack pure thunder.  No big deal, I could see a pair of BOWs someday.

The finish is obviously top notch.  They are an heirloom piece.  The figuring of the walnut is majestic.

Although they are efficient they can push my LM to 50W during peaks, which was interesting.  I can see how some people use these speakers and say they have better dynamics with a solid state amp compared to a SET.  Luckily, my LM219 puts out well over the 24 wpc spec. 

I always say that the true test of a speaker is one that makes you want to continue listening and come back time after time.  My Daedalus gives me that.

Lou is a nice guy.  I am always nervous wiring such a large amount of money to someone I never met but he seemed to have a great reputation.

Criticisms: Nothing is perfect and I do have two small criticisms.  One was the packaging.  I wish they would have shipped in crates.  The speakers arrived unharmed, but the boxes had a few holes in them.  I had to tear them open before accepting from Fedex.  The second, I would wish for more robust feet.  My room leans to one side by about 1/3".  That means I have to raise one speaker 0.25", plus level the speaker.  I am maxed out on the adjustment of one speaker.

I will probably think of a few more things and edit this post a couple times.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160752)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160753)

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: ArthurDent on 11 Apr 2017, 02:23 am
Beautiful looking, to go with what I'm sure is stunning sound. Nice room with stellar system. Couldn't be more pleased with my 'little' Muses and my modest system. I'm sure you'll enjoy for a long time to come.  :thumb:  Lou is a good man to work with.   8)
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: FullRangeMan on 11 Apr 2017, 02:29 am
Nice LM amp, that shining real wood is great :thumb:
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 11 Apr 2017, 03:12 am
I hated to see that pair go but they clearly have a good home :thumb:

The reason I don't use crates is that would push the weight over what can be delivered except by freight, which is expensive and a major hassle. Once in a while the outer box gets nailed but since we have refined the packaging to what it is now we have not had one damage claim! And that has been about 7 or 8 years!

Give me a call and I can get you a longer stud for some of the spikes/knobs, that will give you more adjustment.

Oh and the new caps and resistors will take about 300 hours to break in, I also don't think the new woofers in there are broken in so in a month or so it should sound much more betta :wink:

thanks,
lou
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 13 Aug 2017, 09:29 pm
This forum is waay too quiet, thought I would give an update.

I have a few hundred hours on them. Well broken in, and the bass has filled out. I also moved them to the 4 Ohm tap on my 219. This resulted in a fuller presentation with more weight and texture.

Next up is decoupling the speakers from my floor. The DIDs would be a good choice but I do not want to add height to the speaker so I will likely get an Isoacoustics Model 2 device. I will eventually try the DIDs under a few components, they seem like a good value.

Speaker cable wise, call me crazy but out of a few cables and thousands of dollars I prefer the cheap 10 gauge from BJC. But, Ill likely compare them against the Auditorium 23 cable next.

Overall, these are dream speakers. I move through a lot of equipment, out of curiousity. But, these speakers aren't going anywhere for a long time.

If you are looking at Daedalus, just buy them...  They are sweet and right at the same time. But beware that you will have to get furniture as beautiful or else they will look out of place :)

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 13 Aug 2017, 10:20 pm
I don't think Lou is making them anymore; you got the last pair!
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Wig on 14 Aug 2017, 12:00 am
Very nice indeed! I'd recommend you try Deulund DCA16 speaker wire bare with no connectors on your Daedalus, you will be amazed at the performance and very cheap as well.

Wig
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 14 Aug 2017, 12:16 am
Very nice indeed! I'd recommend you try Deulund DCA16 speaker wire bare with no connectors on your Daedalus, you will be amazed at the performance and very cheap as well.

Wig

Will do!
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: LesterSleepsIn on 14 Aug 2017, 12:21 am
Wow, truly beautiful speakers. Congrats and enjoy!
Lester
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 14 Aug 2017, 12:47 am
Hi, 101.

Those are fantastic speakers you've got. :thumb:

As for the quiet...I think it's a reflection of how it takes folks a while to realize just how good Lou's speakers are. It took me 3 years to come round to deciding to buy a pair (Apollos), but I'm delighted that I did. I can't wait till they're in my house hooked up to my gear.

Enjoy!

Michael
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 14 Aug 2017, 01:03 pm
Hi, 101.

Those are fantastic speakers you've got. :thumb:

As for the quiet...I think it's a reflection of how it takes folks a while to realize just how good Lou's speakers are. It took me 3 years to come round to deciding to buy a pair (Apollos), but I'm delighted that I did. I can't wait till they're in my house hooked up to my gear.

Enjoy!

Michael

I know what you mean; I have a new pair of Ulysses (latest Xover upgrade) waiting to ship to me soon!
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 14 Aug 2017, 01:04 pm
Very nice indeed! I'd recommend you try Deulund DCA16 speaker wire bare with no connectors on your Daedalus, you will be amazed at the performance and very cheap as well.

Wig

Have you tried the Daedalus/Wywires cables?
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: shahed on 14 Aug 2017, 03:45 pm
I use western electric 10ga wire as my speaker cable with my Daedalus Athena V.2. This has been one of those educating experience in my audio journey that less money can bring you better sound quality sometimes.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: david12 on 14 Aug 2017, 03:52 pm
"Very nice indeed! I'd recommend you try Deulund DCA16 speaker wire bare with no connectors on your Daedalus, you will be amazed at the performance and very cheap as well.

  Wig"

 I'm sure the Duelend wire is great, but the Daedalus speaker, put together by Wywires is truly excellent and still matches the internal wiring, I believe.

 That certainly is a beautiful pair of speakers, you almost wouldn't care what they sounded like, almost.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: easystreet on 15 Aug 2017, 04:12 pm
Here's another vote for the Daedalus/Wywires speaker cable. These are designed by Lou and the wire is basically the same wire he uses in his speakers. In my system, they handily beat worthy contenders including Auditorium 23, Audience, and High Fidelity Cables. Plus, they are a relative bargain.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Wig on 15 Aug 2017, 11:57 pm
I can tell you from experience and owning $2k+ interconnects and speaker cables that this Deulund DCA16 speaker cable at $120 a pair or Deulund DCA20 interconnects DIY $80 will give those mega dollar cables a run for their money and you may even prefer the Deulund. Lots of talk about these cables and what they are sayings are spot-on.

Wig
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 16 Aug 2017, 01:27 pm
I can tell you from experience and owning $2k+ interconnects and speaker cables that this Deulund DCA16 speaker cable at $120 a pair or Deulund DCA20 interconnects DIY $80 will give those mega dollar cables a run for their money and you may even prefer the Deulund. Lots of talk about these cables and what they are sayings are spot-on.

Wig

Can you link any comments or reviews that actually talk about these cables as something other than "vintage sound" or as an update on older Western Electric cables?  Because I personally don't think of Daedalus speakers as being in the "vintage" category...
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Wig on 16 Aug 2017, 11:31 pm
Can you link any comments or reviews that actually talk about these cables as something other than "vintage sound" or as an update on older Western Electric cables?  Because I personally don't think of Daedalus speakers as being in the "vintage" category...

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?cat=31

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca16ga-premium-tinned-copper-vintage-tone-cable/

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/

http://thenewold.co/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-16ga-wire/

Not saying that they will be better but you will be pleasantly surprised especially if your current cable is not substantially better than $120 Deulunds...

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/index.php/2017/04/12/duelund-dca16ga-part-iii/

Wig
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 17 Aug 2017, 12:23 am
Well, unless you read differently than I do, those postings are comparing Duelund to vintage WE cables, and describe a vintage sound.  Nothing wrong with that,  but I don't think that fits with the design goals and sound of Daedalus speakers.  YMMV.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Wig on 17 Aug 2017, 03:29 am
The cable design is vintage but not the sound quality, Deulunds has even been compared to $14K High Fidelity Cables. Try a pair and if you don't like it there's a nice following on Audiogon and someone will snatch them up; rarely see them for sale on the used market.

Wig
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 17 Aug 2017, 01:38 pm
I understand that you are enthusiastic about these cables, and they are inexpensive and therefore involve little risk to try; I'm just saying that what is written in the links you posted doesn't inspire me to even give them a try (which does involve a fair amount of effort even if not much money).
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 13 Sep 2019, 12:53 am

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198718)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198719)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198720)
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 13 Sep 2019, 12:55 am
Daedalus Bow Subwoofers have been added.  They are in the upgraded Claro finish.  The finish looks great but really makes me appreciate the Orpheus.  Probably better that the subs are a little understated since the main piece should be the speakers.

Running them with the Parasound 2250v2, you can see the crossover on top of the Amp, on the floor.  Stillpoints Ultra SS on the subs and Orpheus.  Using Audio Sensibility cabling for the subs, Wywires on the mains.

Breaking them in for a while before I fully set them up.  Had some fun with Brothers in Arms, they definitely create quite the foundation.  Feels like my speakers got twice as big.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: ArthurDent on 13 Sep 2019, 02:31 am
Nice setup, beautiful speakers advanced101. Lou's work is special, nice addition with the Bows.  8)
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 13 Sep 2019, 03:26 pm
Congrats on the Bow upgrade!

I'm curious about something in your photo. It appears that the floor is a floating wood floor. Is my assumption correct?  Prior to adding the Stillpoints Ultra SS, had you experienced a lot of vibration in the floor? If so, please describe the before and after differences in floor vibration and speaker sounds.

I ask this because my Apollos are on a carpeted floating wood floor that vibrates even at moderate volume levels. I'm using the spikes that Lou supplied.

Regards,

Michael
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: charmerci on 13 Sep 2019, 04:01 pm
Congrats on the Bow upgrade!

I ask this because my Apollos are on a carpeted floating wood floor that vibrates even at moderate volume levels. I'm using the spikes that Lou supplied.

Regards,

Michael


 :nono:   No way - you need to isolate those speakers. Sorbothane (or whatever) is needed in your case!
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 13 Sep 2019, 04:17 pm
The wood flooring in the front of my room is reclaimed maple pulled from an old warehouse, 3/4”. I have more to finish out the room, plan to do that in the spring.
The floor isn’t actually floating but heavily anchored via nails to the sub-floor with a layer of thin acoustic mat between. It is quite dead, not concrete dead, but solid.
Stillpoints are a unique animal. I don’t consider them isolation devices, rather energy communication devices. You really have to experiment in your specific application(s). For me, the Stillpoints don’t completely isolate the speakers but the resulting communication with my flooring is to my preference. There are better ways to isolate speakers from floors, the Symposium platforms do a good job in my experience.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: A_shah on 14 Sep 2019, 11:11 pm
Congrats on the Bow upgrade!

I'm curious about something in your photo. It appears that the floor is a floating wood floor. Is my assumption correct?  Prior to adding the Stillpoints Ultra SS, had you experienced a lot of vibration in the floor? If so, please describe the before and after differences in floor vibration and speaker sounds.

I ask this because my Apollos are on a carpeted floating wood floor that vibrates even at moderate volume levels. I'm using the spikes that Lou supplied.

Regards,

Michael



Michael
have tried Lou speaker stands for your Apollo's , Although I have concrete  under the engineered cherry wood flooring , yes they did put some of pinkish looking sheets over the concrete and than the flooring I decided to order speaker stands from Lou and in order to protect the floor Herbies Cone/Spike decoupling gliders , have no vibration at all but also found the sound improved
Asghar
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: A_shah on 14 Sep 2019, 11:15 pm
The Bows and the Orpheus Speakers look stunning I believe they are one of the kind Speakers from Daedalus :thumb:

Asghar

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Sep 2019, 04:34 am


Michael
have tried Lou speaker stands for your Apollo's , Although I have concrete  under the engineered cherry wood flooring , yes they did put some of pinkish looking sheets over the concrete and than the flooring I decided to order speaker stands from Lou and in order to protect the floor Herbies Cone/Spike decoupling gliders , have no vibration at all but also found the sound improved
Asghar

Thanks, Ashgar. I'm considering a few possibilities. I may first try inexpensive bamboo slabs or granite under each speaker. Isoaoustic Gaias may be in my future, too.

P.S. I sent you an email a couple nights ago. If you haven't seen it, it may have been shunted to spam(?).

Michael
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Sep 2019, 06:26 pm
Couple of notes on spikes etc....
There are many opinions as to what goes under a speaker. I am not a fan of sorbothane etc under any audio component, especially electronics. Under speakers it can be ok but it usually seems to dampen dynamics and shrink the stage. Isolation that has bearings etc I also do NOT find to work well under speakers. Platforms can work well and obviously well made spikes help. Our "isolation devices" for speakers tend to take what spikes do to the next step, while they don't truly isolate the speakers from the floor they also do not inhibit dynamics etc as most "isolating" devices do. Our spikes are quite possibly the very best in the industry and I strongly recommend them. Whether adding platforms, gliders, our Speaker DiDs etc to them should be decided on a case by case basis. You really have to experiment to find what works with your room and floor etc.
btw Our Speaker DiDs work well on hard floors and also carpets, though usually not on carpet when there is a thick pad. The caveat is that there are many exceptions, I have heard them make a transformative improvement on carpet with a fairly thick pad and other times be of no real benefit.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Sep 2019, 06:31 pm
The Bows and the Orpheus Speakers look stunning I believe they are one of the kind Speakers from Daedalus :thumb:

Asghar

Thanks!  The wood in that set of Orpheus was really one of a kind. I actually have a stunning 12 string guitar that was build from that batch!
The pictures don't really do justice though to the BOW, they are also extremely beautiful. The baffles are a bit more plain but the sides and tops are gorgeous. Unfortunately we had some camera issues so I couldn't get really good pics before we shipped. :cry: I did take a few with my phone and I'll see if any are worth posting.
In any case thanks to everyone for the kind words and appreciation. We do try to make every pair uniquely beautiful.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Sep 2019, 06:37 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198834)
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 21 Sep 2019, 06:03 pm
The subwoofers are indeed better looking than I can photograph.

I have had them for a couple weeks now and tuned in.  The Parasound Amp matches up perfectly and has some important adjustments for me.  Particularly the gain (the crossover has an attenuator of its own), that is very fine in adjustment.  There is also a high pass filter option of 20 & 40 Hz, useful if your Turntable has a little rumble.  Final placement is directly adjacent to the main speakers, maybe 0.5" between them and 0.5" in front.  I anticipated the close setup of the Towers vs. Subs and had removed the outriggers for the Orpheus and installed Stillpoints Ultra Bases for Stability. 

In terms of level, I had to go through a few discs but mainly relied on the lessons I learned from Master Set speaker positioning guidelines.  The subs blend perfectly with the towers.

The setup sounds great.  One of my favorite speakers is the Sonus Faber Aida.  I always though that Orpheus sounded very similar, just couldn't quite reach as low.  With the Orpheus + BOW, I believe it is better.  Just a ton of presence, weight and excitement all with the naturalness that Daedalus is known for.  Just finished listening to one of my favorite albums, The Final Cut.  This is the best I have heard it, just amazing.

In a couple years Ill send the Orpheus back for the new tweeters and trim rings, no rush, sounds great right now.

Here is a picture of the Crossover and the Parasound.  Need to order a matching Walnut platform:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198980)


One of the things that makes the Orpheus unique: rear ambience drivers:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198981)

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 25 Sep 2019, 08:00 pm
I would be careful about having the crossover directly on top of the amp. You may at least want to put some spacers between them so the amp does not overheat?
I'll bet your system does sound great! It is cool the way these subs by completing the foundation in a subtle way tend to improve the whole sound. :thumb:
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 20 Dec 2020, 08:05 pm
It has been a fun few years with the Orpheus but they are all packed up and ready for their next Owner.  I am hand delivering tomorrow. 

I gave my current set of Wywires Silver speaker cables to the new owner but in the meantime I purchased a set of the Wywires/ Daedalus SE Speaker cables for my incoming Zeus.  I spent a week listening to them on the Orpheus, yea, really wished I bought them a few years ago with the speakers  :duh:.  Took the bass to another level and everything seemed much more natural. 


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218586)
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: rbbert on 22 Dec 2020, 03:28 pm
You will have to change the title of this thread to "My Zeus Speakers", or start a new one?   :thumb:
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: A_shah on 23 Dec 2020, 01:33 am
Congratulations ! looking forward to your review on the Zeus Speakers you probably have a prefect room for those speakers ! Ialso own  2 pairs of Wywire Diamond interconnects and a set of Daedalus speaker cables  hardly notice them in my system!  :thumb:

Asghar

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 23 Dec 2020, 02:06 pm
I will have to make a new Zeus thread.

As for cables, it is inevitable moving to the Diamond series but I have other fish to fry first.  I have all Platinum and liked mixing in one Audience Front Row.

Not sure what else I am going to work on this year.  I may be adding a new Step up Transformer or amp for the Zeus.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: Jarbs on 23 Dec 2020, 05:57 pm
Will you be running the Zeus with the BOW’s?
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 23 Dec 2020, 06:57 pm
Thats a good question. I will experiment with them but I have a feeling they may go up for sale. We will see.
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 24 Dec 2020, 01:08 am
Congratulations on the move to the Zeus!  :thumb:

I'll look forward to your new thread.

Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: audiotom on 19 Feb 2021, 03:24 am
Advanced

Congrats on your Zeus speakers

Judging from my Apollo 11’s and Lou having fun playing a primal Clarence Clemons track at the shop on the Zeus - I would think you would have plenty of low end.

Just Curious - what is the size of your room? Are your speakers on the long wall or short wall?
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 19 Feb 2021, 02:25 pm
Room is 36'ish long, 14' wide, 9' high.  Speakers on the short wall firing down the room.

Bass wise, very good room, especially for a non-dedicated build.  I don't have any prominent bass modes except for a vertical mode, slight null at 50 Hz in the seated position. 

I have spent a lot of time experimenting with different treatments at the side walls and have begun building my own with what I have learned at each position. 

I am still working on the builds but here is where it is at right now.  By the time the speakers arrive I should be closer to completion.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221077)


Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 19 Feb 2021, 04:10 pm
Can you describe what you’ve done on the ceiling?

My listening room’s dimensions are nearly the same as yours - 29’L x 14’W x 9’H. My speakers are pulled ~5’ from the front wall. There’s precious little acoustic treatment in my room thanks to WAF issues. 
Title: Re: My Orpheus Speakers
Post by: advanced101 on 19 Feb 2021, 06:53 pm
The ceiling has a 2" Vicoustic absorber above the speaker and two GIK Gridfusors per speaker.

I am procrastinating ceiling trials.  One, because it will be a pain in the butt.  Two, because until I can mount a panel properly up there, anything I put above my head must be able to fall off the ceiling and not kill me.

I know from my trials on the sidewalls that a pure 2" absorber and the EPS (polystyrene) Gridfusors are not optimal, for me.  I have found that at first reflection points I prefer a mix of absorption and scattering/ reflection.  On top of that, I prefer maple and walnut as materials to build the panels.  My favorite panels are the Stillpoints Apertures.  I have used that design as inspiration for my panels, but I changes some things around.  Among the changes, each position has an increase or decrease in absorption/ reflection.  I also use maple to build them.

So someday, I plan to build the right solution for the ceiling.  If you aren't willing to build your own, the GIK alpha traps are pretty good for the money.