[wilsynet]

The Sound Anchors were about $410, pre-filled, including shipping.  Just figured I wouldn't do any better of a job with mass loading than they would, although it's certainly a bit cheaper if you do it yourself.

The Parasound HCA-2205A delivers 220 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and 300 watts per channel into 4 ohms, which is plenty (and I mean plenty) to drive the Tempestas to concert levels.  As I said, the published specs at 85db efficient don't tell the whole story here -- it's a very conservative published spec.

[saeyedoc]

The Sound Anchors were about $410, pre-filled, including shipping.  Just figured I wouldn't do any better of a job with mass loading than they would, although it's certainly a bit cheaper if you do it yourself.

The Parasound HCA-2205A delivers 220 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and 300 watts per channel into 4 ohms, which is plenty (and I mean plenty) to drive the Tempestas to concert levels.  As I said, the published specs at 85db efficient don't tell the whole story here -- it's a very conservative published spec.

You should check out the arguments on power needed vs sensitivity on my thread at AVSForum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1406177

Good to hear that in the real world I should be ok with my amp.

[Freo-1]

Personally, I like the tower solution better than monitors.  They generally are set up for the optimum position for listening, and you do not have to worry about stands. 

Since you still would like to go with a Subwoofer (or two), then a tower with mid/bass drivers would make a certain of sense. (not too much floor space).

One item I can share is to check out speakers with SEAS Excel drivers.  They are incredible.

[sharpsuxx]

Sensitivity isn't everything.  It is great for home theater applications but sensitivity is really only a big concern for music if you plan on using SET amps.  Most modern amps can drive anything 82db sensitivity of higher to mind numbing levels of volume and give you tons of headroom in huge rooms.  Sensitivity is a consideration to make but it is pretty far down there on my list of considerations at least when choosing speakers.  With any speaker in this price range it is still going to take a Subwoofer or 2 to get you that Bass "overload" of the room from at least 60hz on down, to give you the real thump in the chest feel. 

I have an 85 watt class A amp that can drive my 87 DB sensitive Onix X-sls speakers like a champ with the volume at only 15%, then again my 97 DB sensitive Klipsch RF-83s sounded so fatigueing with it it was unbearable.  If you get a chance to get out and listen to some stuff you can really figure out what type of sound you like. 

I think AKfest is next weekend, if you feel like taking a trip up to Detroit to hear all these guys.  Pretty sure Vapor, Selah, Salk, Fritz, and many other very reputable manufacturerss will be there to get a taste of a more head to head comparison.   

[dougme57]

I would like to chime in without attemting to highjack the thread. I have been watching this one and it reminds me of my situation. My system is in the basement, large family room 50X17 ope with three areas. First is along short wall with a 100" home made screen and a ceiling mount hi def projector. Front is ACI Sapphire111LE on custom built stands and an ACI Emerald LE for center. Polk bookshelfs walmounted for the rears and a Dayton sub-120. Main seating couch about 12 ft from screen and mains are about 10 ft apart with slight toe-in.

My sub is used for theater only and I am able 2 spend 3-4 hours a week listening to music, all FLAC files into Onkyo using tyversity. I love the sound of the ACI's, silk tweeter, Focal 7"mid but want more range for classical and jazz. Volume is no problem and accoustic/ mid range material is pretty good.

Question is should I try to upgrade mains by adding acouple of small stereo subs? Or one good sub? Should i look at full range floorstanders keepping in mind I love my ACI sound, have had them since new many years ago. Budget is a factor and the family is completely satisfied with movie/tv sound.

Appreciatate any thoughts.

[doug s.]

I would like to chime in without attemting to highjack the thread. I have been watching this one and it reminds me of my situation. My system is in the basement, large family room 50X17 ope with three areas. First is along short wall with a 100" home made screen and a ceiling mount hi def projector. Front is ACI Sapphire111LE on custom built stands and an ACI Emerald LE for center. Polk bookshelfs walmounted for the rears and a Dayton sub-120. Main seating couch about 12 ft from screen and mains are about 10 ft apart with slight toe-in.

My sub is used for theater only and I am able 2 spend 3-4 hours a week listening to music, all FLAC files into Onkyo using tyversity. I love the sound of the ACI's, silk tweeter, Focal 7"mid but want more range for classical and jazz. Volume is no problem and accoustic/ mid range material is pretty good.

Question is should I try to upgrade mains by adding acouple of small stereo subs? Or one good sub? Should i look at full range floorstanders keepping in mind I love my ACI sound, have had them since new many years ago. Budget is a factor and the family is completely satisfied with movie/tv sound.

Appreciatate any thoughts.

add two good subs.  actively cross the monitors over to them - relieving the aci's and their amp of seeing any frequencies below 80hz will improve their sound, as well as you getting better bass w/two good subs.  (keep the dayton and run it out of phase in the rear of the room; this will help smooth out bass response.)

doug s.

[saeyedoc]

Here are some pics of the space to give you some idea of what I'm dealing with. I know it's not accurate, but my radioshack meter was peaking at 90-95db playing music at loud, but comfortable volumes, -15 or so on my ARC calibrated MRX.

[doug s.]

i still don't think you could go wrong w/a pair of these (90db-efficient) in that room:


another prospect that might be worth hearing is the gemme audio tanto; it has gotten excellent rewiews and can be found for $2k-$3k.  i actually have a pair; still in their boxes, due to constraints on space/storage space.   

doug s.

[JLM]

saeyedoc,

Everything looks squeezed towards the front wall, so with limited space in a nearfield setting I'd recommend against dipoles, bipoles, or even rear vented ports on larger woofers (not enough space behind to allow them to work properly).  I'd also recommend to stay with a no more than a two-way design (driver integration is problem nearfield). 

This could be a good application for bi-amped (fully active) monitors.  Usually 2-ways, found in recording studios, so designed for bookshelf/nearfield use, highly dynamic, flat frequency response, and unbelievably deep bass, they provide high value while avoiding the problems inherent with passive speaker designs.  Check out the reviews in soundonsound.com for starters.  Note that AVIhifi.com offers ADM9T in white with grill covers that include Wolfson DAC, analog inputs, sub output, and remote (for $1900 replace your pre/power amp and DAC). 

[saeyedoc]

JLM, not sure what you're talking about.
The rear of those speakers are two feet or more from bookshelves, another foot or more to the wall. The LP is 13' from the front of them, that's nearfield?
I don't want powered speakers or a DAC, I already have a good amp and I use my Anthem as the DAC, all inputs are HDMI and I'm using ARC room correction.

[JLM]

Sorry, it still looks squished to me, so disregard my nearfield related comments.

What's an "LP"?

My advice is still to not knock active speakers before investing $$$, especially since you seem to be leaning towards standmounts.  After 40 years in this it was one of my top 5 epiphanies to hear active versus passive demonstrated and is now impossible for me to ignore.  IMO this is the biggest deaf (blind) spot audiophiles have, period.

[borism]

I think "LP" may stand for listening position.

[saeyedoc]

I think "LP" may stand for listening position.

Correct sir!
Measured yesterday, there's about 2 feet from the rear of the speaker to the wall in the back of the bookshelves.

[doug s.]

while i have never heard the rm30's, i can wouch for the excellence of their bigger brothers, the rm40's.  if cut from the same cloth, (and everyone who's heard 'em says they are), then it would certainly be a fine choice...

doug s.

[cujobob]

In your price-range, I'd have to say the top choices would be the Gedlee Abbeys or the Vapor Audio Cirrus. I own and love the Abbeys and they can work in any room, but the problem is that likely they won't fill your WAF needs. The Cirrus speakers use world class drivers and have a very well thought out crossover tying them together in a great cabinet, I've lusted after a pair for a while even though I love my current setup. As others have said, multiple subs is always the way to go if possible.You'll be very happy with the Cirrus.

[saeyedoc]

Thanks for all of your help.
Leaning towards a high-end stand mounted monitor at this point, something like the Vapor Cirrus or Arcus, Selah Tempestra or Cicondare or Soundscape M7.
I think if I get any of those in black I can get away with it.

[Rclark]

The buzz is all about the Cirrus right now.

[saeyedoc]

The buzz is all about the Cirrus right now.

I can see if you want the upgraded veneers, the Cirrus is comparable to the Tempestra in value. The advantage to the Tempestra is that it is available in a pre-made cabinet which can make it a good value considering the drivers it uses. If implemented correctly, a 3-way should sound better than a 2-way. The Cirrus is more sensitive though.
The question is whether the extra cabinet work in the Cirrus makes it sound better?
I'd love to see a direct comparison of the two.
The other issue is availability, not that I'm ready to make a move right now anyway, but the stories of people waiting close to a year for a Cirrus, after fronting most of the cost is a little scary. I may wait 6 months or so to see how Vapor is doing.
I

[cujobob]

Long wait times and fronting money are a bit of an issue when going with new startup companies. I've been there with Gedlee myself, but it was worth it (and he's a pretty well known guy in audio circles plus lives a half hour from me  ).

I'd go with the Vapor Cirrus over the Tempesta for a few reasons:

The cabinet (I'll just copy and paste from the page)...

Stacked lamination of CNC cut 13-ply void free Baltic Birch Ply
- Internal shape designed through use of Finite Element Analysis to eliminate internal reflections
- Engineered Silica filled walls destroy any resonances and greatly reduce sound transmission
- Constrained layer construction used on top and bottom panels, and front baffle
- Internal threaded rod tensions the cabinet fromt top to bottom
- Large front roundover eliminates cabinet edge diffraction
- Crossover components are housed in a separate, isolated chamber from the woofer

The drivers..

Audiotechnology vs. Accuton/Scanspeak.



Two-way vs. Three-way...

Two ways are simply easier to get right. Three ways can sound amazing, I've heard many that do, but a good two way mated to a trio of subs is what I would look to do in any setup at the moment. What you don't want is to hear the crossover implementation while listening. If one only had two speakers without subs, a three way is a great choice, but you don't need to do that.

Personally, I also find the Cirrus to look better. I'd never turn away a pair of Tempestas offerd at the right price, but when choosing from a brand new speaker, I just don't see any real advantages to the Tempestas. The Cirrus is well thought out in every way, it's the first affordable speaker I've seen that didn't cut corners and is truly cost no object.

[saeyedoc]

Yes, I know the crossovers are harder to implement correctly in a 3-way, but from what I've read, Rick at Selah knows what he's doing. I've seen comments from him regarding his 2-way vs 3-way and he states that if implemented correctly, it allows the drivers to operate in their designed range and can make for a smoother sound. I'm sure both are excellent speakers, without a direct comparison (wasn't someone here or another forum getting both?), I don't think it's fair to say one is better than the other.
The cabinet in the Vapor obviously involves much more time and expense, but does it really make that much difference?